Clinton, Obama duel ahead of Indiana, North Carolina primaries

Monday 05th May, 06:27 AM JST

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super delegate at 12:28 PM JST - 6th May

"America is still basically a salad bowl and notions about it being a mixed integrated society is a pipe dream."

You obviously don't live there.

Ever even visited?
Everton2 at 12:44 PM JST - 6th May

super delegate - You are funny! The reality is that I have spend too much time there. There are entire neighborhoods where you have to spot the white person and vise versa.

Moderator: All readers, back on topic please.
skipthesong at 12:50 PM JST - 6th May

everton: We are crashing again. I for one would never claim it being a mixed integrated society. However there are people like me and many of my family that are just of that! Yes, most neighborhoods are still largely racially sectored, however, I would also claim it a pipe dream that "non whites that you see in positions of influence have had to be 10 times better than their white counterpart.: You would have a lot of proving to do. Just about every aspect of American life boils down to race," Yes and guess what, that's a good thing. If it weren't things would a lot worse.

where blacks are invariably viewed with suspicion" You are being one sided, it ain't all whites fault. Giving you the reasons would be off topic, but I Obama has at least touched on that issue, not enough, but a bit and there are legitimate concerns.

and have had to prove themselves in every sphere to gain acceptance." And what's wrong with that? So has everyone else, you are only looking at it black and white.

Barrack has had to do the same thing" differ again. The Japan Times ran a good article on Obama's career as a lawyer. If anything, he was lack luster - but that is not his fault, more the firms I would say.

Bush has gone from an alcoholic to the white house a history that would not be tolerated in a non white candidate." Man, you are out of your mind, have you ever heard of Marion Barry? or Kilpatrick. Even the new Governor of NY has issued with drugs.. c'mon get off it.

It is people like you that have a many concerned. Throw anything at you and racism is the only answer. What's next with you? 68% of black kids can't swim because of racism? People like you need not to back Obama. You hurt him more than you think.
super delegate at 12:59 PM JST - 6th May

everton > "There are entire neighborhoods where you have to spot the white person and vise versa."

And that never happens in other countries, does it?

Rather telling that Obama, with diplomas from the most exclusive high school in Hawaii and from Harvard, should have chosen to live in one of those neighborhoods, where he achieved almost nothing as a "community organizer."

A cynic might say his moves were even more calculated than Hillary ("I've always been a Yankees fan") and her move to New York to run for the office of senator.

You might counter that Bush did something the same in Texas but he entered the far more competitive private sector first, then won election to the office of governor - a much more traditional route to the WH - before accepting his party's nomination.
Everton2 at 01:14 PM JST - 6th May

skipthesong-Why would things be a lot worse if race was removed from the equation? Ho! So the black man who works his ass off and makes it in life has to take responsibility for how whites see him because they have had a bad experience with a black person.

Man again you are a piece of work. That they have to prove themselves in every sphere is simply a statement that relates to double standards,simply, whites are not held to the same standard, there is an assumption that they are better even it they are not. And Marion Barry and others were provisional leaders, the Presidency is a different league, the scrutiny is purported to be more intense.

You sir are typical of those who refuses to accept the reality of race being a factor in American life. You stick your head in the sand and hope that it will go away, or it is not happening and brand everyone who raises the issue as reductionist. Black kids can swim if given the opportunity - they don't in greater numbers because they generally have very little access to the culture of swimming and the facilities.
skipthesong at 01:27 PM JST - 6th May

Where did I say remove race? And pinning me as something typical is further proof of you negative attitude much less knowing who and what you are talking to. What I meant, was if race was removed, given the status of it now in the US would bottle up feelings which would eventlually explode.

And you know damn well there are double standards that go very counter to your belief's.. But again, that would take this off topic.

Can any posters give me proof of Everton's statement: assumption that they are better even it they are not" Where did I, or anyone here say anything as such?

Black kids can swim if given the opportunity - they don't in greater numbers because they generally have very little access to the culture of swimming and the facilities." Ah, so it racism! I lived in an inner city and we had beaches too.. show me an inner city that doesn't have a pool, and I have lived in the biggest three.

It really is you that is typical of those who refuse to accept realities instead making excuses. Here's proof: "Marion Barry and others were provisional leaders, the Presidency is a different league, the scrutiny is purported to be more intense."
super delegate at 01:41 PM JST - 6th May

everton > "You sir are typical of those who refuses to accept the reality of race being a factor in American life."

Hilarious assertion, coming as it does from someone who'd probably tell us Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell "aren't really black."
super delegate at 03:28 PM JST - 6th May

everton asks others to be rational, and then proposes that it's American conservatives here who promote identity politics and are therefore the one ones who assert that Sec of State Rice can not be both black and Republican?

You make me laugh.

Do you know anything about the history of the American political parties?
WhiteHawk at 12:29 AM JST - 7th May

SezWho2:

You use the quotation out of context. It is very clear that Obama was saying that the United States was a great nation and it was great, in part, because the people have the power and the ability to determine what changes we need to make to improve our lives.

One of the changes that Obama wants to make is to make sure that our government works to the benefit of the American people and not to their detriment

Yes, whenever a conservative quotes Obama, they are routinely told by an Obama supporter that the quote is "out of context", followed by an explanation of The Great Orator "really meant".

But even by your own translation, he does want to change America from what made it great. The American government works for the benefit of the American people by doing only what the private sector can't or shouldn't do, then doing what it does efficiently. Is there anything from Barack's uncompleted first term as a U.S. Senator that suggests he will work in that direction?

rjd_jr:

WhiteHawk, those Black Americans are good choices but we're dealing here with Obama, he's the only Black person in the running in this tight democratic race, so that is the only choice. But what I am saying is that in this very weak presidential field, I would not want McCain the madman to be president.

But you'll take Obama the Inexperienced because of his skin color? You might want to consider issues and policies.

Also, as I've pointed out on another Obama/Clinton thread, Warren G. Harding was America's first black president. He had a black grandmother, and by the standards of the day that made him black.

Everton2:

Bush has a 30% approval rating in his own country, the entire world thinks he is the worst president ever.

While the U.S. Senate (which all three remaining candidates hail from) comes in at a whopping 11% rating. Would you like to know why?

In fact, he has done more to foster division than any other leader in the free world.

Really? I've always figured it was the tantrum-throwing left that started the division by claiming Bush stole the 2000 election. Remember, Bush didn't foster division as governor of Texas. Perhaps that's because he wasn't dealing with a Soros-funded team of left-wing activists.

The zenith came when Bush announced to the world after 9/11 that if you are not with us you are against us, is just the hight of belligerence. In this assertion he is virtually threatening the world.

As opposed to peaceful, unifying, you're-either-a-Muslim-or-you're-an-infidel-and-infidels-must-die Islamists which attacked Americans one time too many, eh?

skipthesong:

Additionally, in retrospect of that famous statement "you are either with us or against us" I find it the same when I hear "If you don't vote for Obama you are racist and if you don't vote for Hillary you are chauvinistic".

Great point!

super delegate:

It would be far more accurate to say that the Left worldwide regards Bush as the worst president ever. But then, for the perpetually aggrieved, defeated and discredited Left every Republican president is the "worst ever."

True. Also, The entire world under the age of 25 may think he is the worst president ever. Those of us a bit older remember a recklessly naive, catastrophically inept Jimmy Carter. To top that, you would have to go back to Woodrow Wilson or Andrew Jackson.

Everton2:

I am not all for Obama, it is just that he represents the best candidate in the current field.

Really? Why?

The person I believe we can most rely on to deliver a Government that is not beholden to special interest.

And is there anything from his uncompleted first term as a U.S. Senator that suggests that?

A man who recognizes the embarrassment and manifold inequities that is contained in the current health care system and has a plan to fundamentally reform it - to restore balance.

Restore balance? How, by making everyone suffer under the same government-bureaucracy healthcare system? This is the same person who -when confronted with the fact that increasing capital gains taxes hurts revenue and the economy- insisted he would still raise such taxes because it was "fair". Ah, the old socialist mantra: Everyone should be equally miserable.

A man who sees the futility of the current policies in Iraq and towards the Middle East in general and vows to exact change.

I'll say! From Audacity of Hope: "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

Of course, Obama has had to back down from his original campaign promises of surrendering Iraq to Iran, after his own advisors informed him of the logistical impossibility of his timetable. I wonder if any Obama supporters can spin that from "Obama's inexperience" to "Bush lied"...

super delegate:

Hilarious assertion, coming as it does from someone who'd probably tell us Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell "aren't really black."

And I don't think any of those people had a white mom...
RomeoRamenII at 01:21 AM JST - 7th May

Whitehawk:

Heh ... you'll be leaving a lot of those who view the world through barack-colored glasses crying in their pillows.

Welcome back.

RR
SezWho2 at 01:25 AM JST - 7th May

WhiteHawk,

You said, "Yes, whenever a conservative quotes Obama, they are routinely told by an Obama supporter that the quote is 'out of context', followed by an explanation of The Great Orator 'really meant'". I don't think we're talking about whenever. I think that we are talking about a specific instance and a specific time. As a critic of Obama, you are using his words to imply that he meant something far different from his intention.

I don't think I have said anything about Obama wanting to change America from what made it great. The greatness of America is not in the private sector or small government. The greatness of America lies in the fact that Americans can change their institutions, their methods and their policies. We actually have the freedom to do that. And there is absolutely no reason to believe that the policies and so on which made us great are sufficient to keep us great.
WhiteHawk at 01:31 AM JST - 7th May

RR, thanks buddy. It's good to be back.

SezWho2:

I don't think we're talking about whenever. I think that we are talking about a specific instance and a specific time. As a critic of Obama, you are using his words to imply that he meant something far different from his intention.

Sorry, I wasn't directing that solely at you. It has just been my experience on a variety of discussion forums. The worst examples have been found on my local newspaper's website.

The greatness of America is not in the private sector or small government.

Yes it is. The greatness of America is in the freedom of its people to make their lives for themselves.

The greatness of America lies in the fact that Americans can change their institutions, their methods and their policies. We actually have the freedom to do that.

But both Clinton and Obama want to take that freedom away, by introducing yet more government intervention, regulation, and redistribution, all in the name of "fairness".
WhiteHawk at 02:00 AM JST - 7th May

By the way, SW2, was Obama being quoted out of context when he said he wouldn't run for president in '08?

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/02/25/obama-2004-nah-i-cant-run-for-president-in-2008/
Everton2 at 09:45 AM JST - 7th May

Here is a man with perhaps the most hated name in America, going up against the most famous woman in America and he is winning in all areas. Obama will
win the nomination and go on to win the presidency.
SezWho2 at 10:47 PM JST - 7th May

WhiteHawk,

I think you're quibbling. I don't have any problem with your statement that the "greatness of America is in the freedom of its people to make their lives for themselves". Unlike you, however, I don't think that means that the greatness is in the private sector and in small government.

You seem to believe that Obama wants to restrict the private sector and to expand government and this means a loss of freedom for people to live their own lives. I don't agree. The private sector is already restricted. The question is not whether it is restricted or not but how it is restricted.

And government is already large. Homeland Security budgets and Pentagon budgets are monstrous. It is not whether we channel funds to social causes that makes big government. It is the total expansion of government that makes it big.

And no, Obama was not quoted out of context when he said he wouldn't run for president in '08. However, when as a criticism you quote him as saying so, he might well be. Stuff happens. Plans change. When I came to Japan almost 20 years ago I told my parents back in the States that I'd be in Japan for a few years and here I still am. Stuff happened. Plans changed. My parents have not complained of any damage. How has the change in Obama's plans damaged you?