Clinton says Palestinian state 'inescapable'
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37 Comments
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adaydream
Crap, that ruins Israel's idea of extinction of the Palestinian people. Hillary just being trouble.
Actually I'm very glad she's stepping in here. < :-)
0
likeitis
In other words, business as usual. Maybe next time she talks about a Palestinian state, she should do so from her knees, and instead of calling it "inescapable", just keep saying please.
We are not going to affect Israeli policy until we cut them off.
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kinniku
adaydream,
Hyperbole much?
I do agree that it is a good thing she is stepping in and stepping up. Now, we just need Netanyahu's government and the Hamas goverment to get with the program, too.
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kinniku
likeitis,
Both sides (not just one or the other) need to be pushed and pulled kicking and screaming to the negotiating table and they should be chained there until a reasonable and peaceful settlement in which both sides can live in peace is achieved.
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WilliB
daydream:
Been watching Al-Jazeera again, dream? Jews, by the way, are Palestinians. The original ones, in fact.
The trick of renaming muslim Arabs only as Palestinians was invented by Arafat, and it has worked splendidly. Ignorant Western scribblers have swallowed it hook, line, and singer.
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rollonarte
On this score I agree with Ms Clinton.
Palestine should be a place from which Hamas, Fatah and like-minded, genocidal Arab-Muslim supremacist groups cannot escape.
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smithinjapan
"Palestine should be a place from which Hamas, Fatah and like-minded, genocidal Arab-Muslim supremacist groups cannot escape."
You ought to be thrown in amongst the groups you purport to be racist as well, for you are by far more extreme and hateful than some of those you perceive to be 'the enemy'.
Anyway, good on Clinton. It's a shame she's promised to support Israel as much as past governments have, but her statement on creating a separate Palestinian state is at least a step in the right direction for those in Gaza. It's a statement basically saying, "We still give Israel carte blanche (which I'm against), but we are also stepping up defense of Gaza".
I'm also glad that they noted they would not be donating money to Hamas, though how they're going to go around and support the Palestinians as such is going to be pretty tough.
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sabiwabi
The Palestinian side has seriously tried a number of times to negotiate a real peace, although we don't hear about it much (or at all) in western media. Unfortunately, Israel is terrified of this, they will never allow it and they will continue to sabotage all efforts while blaming the other side.
Israel has also demonstrated that it can get away with ANYTHING.
And with comments like these, I don't expect anything to change. Yes we can....but we won't, it seems. Israel must be FORCED to respect international law and UNSC resolutions. Only then can they start serious negotiations.
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kinniku
You have written that before, however what you wrote was not correct. Would you like to try again? When exactly did the Palestinian side try to negotiate a real peace in which both Israelis and Palestinians would live side-by-side in peace in their own independent countries of Palestine and Israel?
Yes, you have claimed this many times as well. However, you are incorrect because you constantly see only one side as the problem. As I have pointed out to you time and again, both sides need to work for peace.
Correction, BOTH sides must be forced and then and only then can they start negotiations for a true and serious peace for BOTH sides.
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kinniku
sabiwabi,
Let's face it. I know what you are going to write (as you have written it before), so why don't just copy what you wrote in answer to the same question I asked you in January and I'll answer those points...
Not quite true...In 1974, the PLO called for their own independent state in the "Palestinian Mandate". In addition, Fatah's leaders created a 10 point plan which called for the establishment of a national authority over any piece of liberated Palestinian land, and to actively pursue the establishment of a secular democratic binational (note: not two separate states)state in Israel/Palestine under which all citizens will enjoy equal status and rights regardless of race, sex, or religion. It actually sounds pretty good until you also note that the stated ultimate goal was the "liberation" of all Palestinian territory. In fact, this refrain was to be repeat by Arafat himself an interview as late as in 1988 when he stated the final goal was to get all of Palestine back (paraphrased as I don't have the text in front of me).
Again, not quite true...
Arafat felt the ceasefire only pertained to PLO attacks originating in Lebanon and as a result attacks from Jordan and the West Bank continued completely unabated. If and when Israel retaliated, it would be seen as technically breaking the ceasefire. However, as we can see the PLO did not feel it had such rules against attacks from the West Bank and Jordan... The PLO was using a loophole to break the ceasefire. Sadly, Hamas also states that their final goal is to take back all of Palestine. Now, I know you agree with this sentiment. However, it is not a 'two state solution' as you represent it.
0
VOR
A two state solution is the proper thing to do. Now if only Rodham-Clinton can convince the Palestinians to turn their back on violence.
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kinniku
VOR,
Yes, and also convince Netanyahu to accept a Palestinian state. Hopefully Netanyahu's “found a common language.” means that he has agreed in private to accepting a Palestinian state.
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VOR
i think that was the direction the peace process was moving until Hamas put the brakes on it and went back to killing and terrorizing Israelis.
Its clear the world will find the money to rebuild Gaza and support the Palestinians in every way possible, they just need to turn their backs on violence.
The two state solution provides both the Palestinian and Israeli the right to self determination within their own national borders and both would be expected to coexist peacefully.
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bebert
I strongly disagree. There should be a single state, with the Palestinians getting full voting rights.
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sabiwabi
bebert,
I agree with your comment.
A one-state solution, with all citizens having equal rights, would be the best and fairest solution. It would basically mean a return to a relatively peaceful situation similar to what existed prior to the occupation that lead to what some people refer to as Israel.
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VOR
the one state solution is code word for the destruction of Israel and that is exactly the end game fans of the final solution desire.
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kinniku
VOR,
Yes, sadly, you are correct. It isn't a very good code word, is it? For everyone, including those claiming it is a great idea here, knows that it would mean that Israel would cease to exist. However, obviously this is exactly what the people saying we should form a single state are hoping will happen.
Yes, unfortunately, this is the case. When Israel pulled out of Gaza and the Palestinians actually started to take over the Rafah border control, it was a time of great hope and pride for the Palestinian people. It is a shame it went the way it did after that.
This is the only solution that will guarantee lasting peace. In addition to the fact that I love the idea of the two peaceful countries existing in and of itself, I will love it when this happens because I know there are some people who will stew at the fact that finally Palestinians and Israelis will able to live in peace.
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Helter_Skelter
Since there are no such people as "Palestinians", how can they become extinct?
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people...
Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein
Moderator: Please do not post inflammatory remarks.
0
kinniku
Helter Skelter,
I have not checked your quote yet. Where is it from? When did he say this? However, the reality is that is there is nation of people that call themselves Palestinian and think of themselves as Palestinian. Israel and all of us in the world must come to terms with this reality and work within this reality.
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skipthesong
A one-state solution, with all citizens having equal rights, would be the best and fairest solution" that would be best, however, you will have a possible Muslim take over by being voted in. Its bad enough Israel still uses Jewish law in many of their laws, but to go the route of Islamic laws is worse.
With the amount of people there who have multiple wives and large families, they would become a majority and I doubt they would respect minority rights. It is after one of the reasons why the Jews set things up the way they did. Many of them had lived under Islamic rule which was one of the spring boards for many of them to declare a Jewish state to being with. Now you want to go back to that?
If Hamas allows religion to dictate their policies, there is no way a one state would work.
0
sabiwabi
What? You're joking right?
Moderator: No history lesson is necessary.
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sabiwabi
Well, I don't see Israel ever allowing a viable Palestine to exist. They took (stole) the best and largest area of Palestine, leaving the Palestians scatters bits of land. Seems more like Israel is code word for the destruction of Palestine.
Anyway, the actions of the Israelis ever since, and even prior, to the creation of Israel have proven that they are unable to live peacefully with the Palestinians.
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kinniku
skip,
It would have been a great solution...a long, long time ago..unfortunately, after WWII, the world did not have the stones or even desire needed to make it so and keep it that way...
However, now is now and as you have suggested, it would just not work. The reasons should be obvious to anyone...
Two independent states, one Palestinian and one Israeli side-by-side in peace is the only realistic present-day solution to this conflict. Mutual recognition and mutual peace.
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kinniku
Helter Skelter,
I checked out the article you suggested. It does seem that Zahir Muhsein did say such a thing in an interview. However, one Palestinian does not change the fact that there is a group of people whose identity is that of Palestinian Arabs. That is how they see themselves and that is now how most people around the world see them. In fact, they could call themselves "Beat Takeshi's Arabs" and they would still have a right to self-determination. This is the reality today. Both sides need to recognize the other side exists and see each other as partners towards peace. I will say, if these two groups get their acts together, big things will happen in the Middle East...very good, big things...
0
kinniku
There was a war. The present map is a result of that. Regardless of your semantics, BOTH sides need to work for peace. Since you don't want Israel to exist, you are not capable of seeing peace between the two nations. Unfortunately, too many people in the Middle East (Netanyahu, Hamas etc) share this view. The fact remains, Gaza had a Palestinian controlled border in Rafah. Israel did in fact allow this to come to be. So, sorry...it is not ALL on the Israelis. BOTH sides need to own up to their responsibilities for peace. Shame you don't seem to want that...
Why is it you can come up with no examples of Palestinian peace initiatives? You claimed there were so many, yet you come up blank or incorrect as in the above examples...
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kinniku
Actually, let me be specific...you have not been able to come up with an example of a Palestinian peace initiative for a permanent two state peaceful solution that Israel "torpedoed"...
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sabiwabi
I did. It was considered off topic.
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kinniku
Maybe if you keep it short and don't ramble on it would be more on topic. However, you neglected to notice that your previous examples had pretty big holes in them. Before you suggest another example, it might be best to check it from all angles...
However, the real fact of the matter is that both sides need to be recognized and both sides need to be respected. I do on both accounts...The reason? I believe in peace. It is that simple. I don't just talk the talk, I walk the walk...
0
sabiwabi
skip,
Well, as it is now, Israel seems to use religion to dictate policy, and they do not give equal rights to their citizens. From earlier this year:
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SuperLib
As long as Sabi is angry then things must be going in the right direction.
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adaydream
bebert
I think there should still be two countries. I don't know that the Palestinians would ever get equal treatment. The Palestinians would become the lower class of the Israelites and ostrisized.
Just my belief. < :-)
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
I think it is intriguing that you seem to fault Israel for traits you claim it has it can also be claimed are held by Iran and in fact many other countries...The intriguing part is that you seem to often claim it is a good situation in Iran.
By the way, do you have a media link for that quote you pasted? I could not seem to find one...I would have imagined that it would be one of the first listed on google, yet strangly, it is not...
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