Monday May 28, 2012

Clinton threatens to 'obliterate' Iran if Israel attacked

CONSHOHOCKEN, Pa —

Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton on Tuesday threatened to “totally obliterate” Iran if the Islamic Republic was ever “reckless” enough to launch a nuclear attack on Israel.

She later said her remark was an attempt to lay out a rationale for a Cold War-style system of deterrence with Iran, but her rival Barack Obama accused her of saber-rattling, as Pennsylvania held its crucial presidential primary.

Clinton took her hawkish line in an interview with ABC television, when she was asked what she would do as president if the Islamic Republic were to launch a nuclear strike on Israel.

“I want the Iranians to know that if I’m the president, we will attack Iran,” Clinton said.

“In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them.”

Later, Clinton told reporters at a polling station in Conshohocken, outside Philadelphia, that Iran must be made aware of the “high price” it would have to pay for any nuclear strike.

If Iran were so “reckless to use them against the United States or an ally in a way that would destablize the world, they would have to take the consequences,” she said.

The New York senator said as president, she would first do whatever she could to prevent Iran manufacturing nuclear weapons in the first place.

Clinton’s tough talk came as she was trying to portray Obama, a first-term senator, as too inexperienced to shoulder the heavy responsibilities of the U.S. president and commander in chief of the armed forces.

But he said Tehran needed to know he would also respond forcefully to any such attack, but took issue with Clinton’s approach.

“I think that one of the things that we’ve seen over the last several years is a bunch of, you know, talk. Using words like obliterate doesn’t actually produce good results. And so I’m not interested in saber rattling.”

Implying that Clinton was now using national security arguments for political advantage, the Obama campaign pointed out that she declined in a debate last October to speculate on such military action.

But the former first lady denied her remarks were politically motivated.

“Iran is feeling quite powerful, they have been empowered by the actions of the last seven years and they must know there are lines that the world will not let them cross,” Clinton said.

The State Department would not comment on Clinton’s remarks, in line with its policy of keeping out of partisan politics, but deputy spokesman Tom Casey pledged Washington would pursue a peaceful path out of the nuclear showdown with Iran.

“Our approach on this is to prevent Iran from ever getting a nuclear weapon so that no one will ever be faced with the scenario of Iran being able to threaten its use or use it against any neighboring state.”

Obama’s camp accused Clinton of trying to scare voters, as she rocked their White House race with a dark campaign ad featuring images of al-Qaida mastermind Osama bin Laden.

The ad uses pictures of Pearl Harbor, bin Laden and the devastating 2005 hurricane that swamped New Orleans, mirroring the “3 a.m. phone call” spot credited with helping Clinton to win in Texas and Ohio last month.

“You need to be ready for anything—especially now, with two wars, oil prices skyrocketing and an economy in crisis,” the male narrator intones. “Who do you think has what it takes?”

Both Democrats have vowed to defend Israel against any Iranian attack, but they differ on how to engage the Islamic republic over its nuclear ambitions.

Both call for diplomacy, but Obama has gone further, renewing a promise of “direct talks” at a leaders’ level with Tehran and others the United States regards as foes, at a candidate debate here last week.

Iran should be presented with “carrots and sticks,” the Illinois senator said, while stressing “they should also know that I will take no options off the table when it comes to preventing them from using nuclear weapons or obtaining nuclear weapons.”

AFP

  • 0

    adaydream

    I keep hearing this from all three candidates. What if Isreal taunts and draws a country into war? What if Isreal attacks?

    They are treated like, but they ain't angels.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    "Obama has gone further, renewing a promise of “direct talks” at a leaders’ level with Tehran"

    Maybe while barack's over there licking the boots of our enemy the mullahs will capture him, withhold his lattes, and make demands upon America. The American far-left liberals will call for war to rescue their "god", but the U.S. military will save America by kicking back and playing cards.

    Then once the mullahs see how worthless he is they'll toss him out into the desert.

    heh, a barack presidency just filled me with hope and change!

    RR

  • 0

    some14some

    Hilarious remarks from Hillary proves that America has not learned anything from Iraq war. If elected, she will be female 'Bush' !

  • 0

    rjd_jr

    Pure comedy folks, and I thought many people were looking forward to a democrat in the white house precisely to avoid these kinds of scenarios.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    More "read my lips" nonsense. It is easy to talk tough for Billary. The fact is that Iran will get its islamic bomb, nobody will stop them, and even after Ahmedinejad nukes Israel, the Western reaction will be nothing more than huffing and puffing and soul-searching about what we did wrong. While assuring each other that the religion of peace has nothing to do with it.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    Heh, and some global liberals were taken aback when Mr. McCain sang his "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran" song.

    RR

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    Iran's nuclear program needs to be destroyed now before they obtain a nuclear bomb. That way, you see, Iran can't launch a nuclear attack on Israel and the US wouldn't have to obliterate Iran. What Hillary should be saying is "As president, I will make sure that Iran never obtains nuclear weapons".

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Uh, if any country nuked an ally of ours would the answer be any different? Is there something special about the Iran/Israel situation? I mean if North Korea nuked Canada we'd just respond with sharp criticism?

  • 0

    redacted

    "Unfortunately, Hillary, Obama, and McCain are trying to outdo each other to express their devotion to their Israeli masters."

    I always enjoy that one. Counterbalances the "Bush is in the pockets of the House of Saud" barking your hear from the Left.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Superlib:

    " Uh, if any country nuked an ally of ours would the answer be any different? Is there something special about the Iran/Israel situation? I mean if North Korea nuked Canada we'd just respond with sharp criticism? "

    We don`t depend on North Korean oil. And even in case of North Kora, I would not bet on a nuclear retaliation. Remember the guilt-complex and self-flagellation of todays Western world.

    The Islamic Republic of Iran, of course, has no such qualms. If you follow up on statements by Khameni and other leaders, you`ll find that they would even be happy with a nuclear retaliation -- after all, it would take many nukes to destroy Iran, but realistically only one to destroy the tiny state of Israel. And all the Iranian victims would go to paradise as martyrs, the highest reward for true believers.

    So much for deterrence...

  • 0

    skipthesong

    d) the US using Nuclear Weapons ( the only ones who ever have, lets face it, and on a civilian population" I hate this one. Yes, the US was the first, but were not the first to come up with the idea.

    The US has supported people were not so nice, but they too had a lot of support from their own people.. Other countries have supported just as worse people on the planet..

    Now for the big what if: If NKorea attacked Canada what would the US do? probably nothing! They would have to have one hell of a target system to hit any one with all that empty space and Canadians themselves wouldn't do nothing either - have yet to meet a Canadian who would stand up to a fight.

  • 0

    skipthesong

    As far as Hillary goes, this conversation is really petty - she aint gonna get elected anyway.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    amazing what silly things we say after being fed nonsense all our lives.

    Super, I was using a "what if" scenario using two other countries showing how the answer would be similar. I wasn't talking a position that an attack was likely or unlikely.

    Obviously you have a lot of frustration over the events you mentioned, but it's not my job to help you with that. Please find help elsewhere.

  • 0

    redacted

    "Actually Iran has a remarkable historical record of non-aggression."

    Yeah, Hamas and Hezbollah spring to mind.

    Of course, it's hard to match the sort of large scale mechanized agression Russia and the US and the UK and France are capapble of when your state religion is one as backwards as the one Iran's ruling regime have built their "revolution" on.

  • 0

    skipthesong

    All you guys out there dogging Hillary need to also understand, Iran has wanted a war with the US for the longest time. Remember, it is a Muslim's duty to kill the infidel. Now that their calls are coming to fruit you cry.

    Its what they want. They really have no desire to live in the world with the US. Eventually, they will do the US in if left un-checked.

  • 0

    redacted

    "Clinton threatens to 'obliterate' Iran"

    She's a woman, and she's talking 'nucular' devastation!

    Hoooooaaaaahhhh, git some Hill!

    Wow. Surely noises like that have reached the ears of "The Hidden Imam," even if he is still at the bottom of the well he was pushed into/is hiding in.

    So where is he? Why does he tarry? Ahmadinejhad had the streets of Teheran widened just for him.

  • 0

    sabiwabi

    "Actually Iran has a remarkable historical record of non-aggression." Yeah, Hamas and Hezbollah spring to mind.

    Last time I checked, Hamas were Palestinian and Hezbollah were Lebanese; they are not Iranian.

    BTW, if the US can obliterate Iran for attacking its "ally" Israel, I guess it would be OK for Iran to obliterate Israel for attacking Iran's Lebanese and Palestinian allies. So the obliteration of Israel would be considered legit!

    Iran does have a remarkable historical record of non-aggression!

  • 0

    dano2002

    iran would be crushed in 2 weeks. they know that. the same happened with iraq. the problem there was occupation. but airstrikes alone would destry everything in Iran.

    And if Israel is nuked? i would guess Tehran would be next.

  • 0

    romulus3

    superesonator and sabiwabi,

    What historical record of non aggression are you speaking of? The Persian empire perhaps?

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    airstrikes alone would destry everything in Iran.

    We could right now target and destroy Iran's nuclear capability by air in a couple of weeks. No occupation, no democratization. Just level their nuclear facilities. Then we wouldn't even have to have these discussions about what if Iran nuked... We need to do it now, before they acquire nuclear weapons.

  • 0

    romulus3

    helter_Skelter,

    since Israel stuck Iraq in 81 for the same reason, Iran has bulked up its arsenal to such and extent that they would merely start hurling missiles at US war ships in the gulf and targets in Iraq, plus Israel. It would get real dirty, real fast. There would be no sobbing over scrap metal and ruined laboratories from Iran.

  • 0

    skipthesong

    OK for Iran to obliterate Israel for attacking Iran's Lebanese and Palestinian allies." Technically speaking - yes! That's how it works.

    Look Germany declared war on the US when they went to war with Japan.

    But still, we all know what Hillary is doing. Just playing salesman.

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    And if Israel is nuked? i would guess Tehran would be next. Then New York after that. Sounds like fun.

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    And if Israel is nuked? i would guess Tehran would be next. Then New York after that.

  • 0

    redacted

    "Last time I checked, Hamas were Palestinian and Hezbollah were Lebanese; they are not Iranian."

    They are both Iranian-backed. And have admitted as much. Iran, as I pointed out, doesn't have the capacity to wage war head-on.

    But I think you and I would agree, letting Hillary be the one whose finger might be on the button is a mistake.

    Better it is someone battle-tested, like John McCain.

    He would deter the nuke club wannabe Iran, hopefully long enough for their already faltering and unpopular regime to be deposed of by ordinary Persians, who have been made a very unpopular laughingstock these last 29 years.

  • 0

    romulus3

    how was John McCain battle tested? for all we know he could have cried for his mother every night as a POW. He may have messed himself constantly. He may have been captured because he is not good in battle.

    As for Hillary "I took fire in Kosovo" Clinton, she would not have the balls to push the button if need be. Obama would be icy cool under that pressure and look at it objectively.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Sabiwabi:

    " Iran does have a remarkable historical record of non-aggression! "

    Really? The Islamic Republic of Iran spent 7 of its 28 years of existence in a bloody war with Irak, and all of its 28 years of existence in supporting terrorists groups. Nice record of non-aggression.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    And if Israel is nuked? i would guess Tehran would be next. Then New York after that.

    Yep. The best solution would be to have no nuclear war since it makes no sense. Unfortunately some are guided by radical Islam and not logic, so you can see the danger.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Go ahead, Hillary. Push the button. Show us you're a man.

    Won't someone spare us from candidates who have something to prove? Even if Iran were to nuke Israel--and that's a highly unlikely scenario even if acquires nuclear weapons--Israel would have plenty of time, and considerably more weaponry, to "obliterate" Iran.

    Considering the population of Iran, talking of totally obliterating it is simply irresponsible.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Sezwho:

    " Israel would have plenty of time, and considerably more weaponry, to "obliterate" Iran. "

    Israel does not have the political will or the ideological background to do that. Iran does.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Superlib,

    It 'aint just radical Islam, buddy. I've seen enough radical Americans on here calling for Iran to be nuked or even calls for a "war on Islam" to see the dangers on all sides.

    I agree with your initial sentiment though, despite the fact that Clinton's comments are a bit unnecasary in light of the current situation.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Yeah, I'm guessing she chose language that made her appear tough, but in reality it's just a "what if" situation. I think Obama's answer was better, but then again he obviously wanted to make his own point and chose his own words carefully for maximum value, maybe not maximum truthfulness.

    I understand what you're saying about some of the Americans you've heard, but let's be real....hearing it from an internet poster vs. hearing it from the head of Iran is a bit different.

  • 0

    redacted

    "Even if Iran were to nuke Israel--and that's a highly unlikely scenario even if acquires nuclear weapons--Israel would have plenty of time, and considerably more weaponry, to "obliterate" Iran."

    Sez - I think what Europeans like you need to worry about is Israel implementing the so-called Samson Option. Europe, by facilitating Iran's nuke program, may have also made itself a target for retaliation. The modern version of the Samson Option is said to portray Israel, if facing annihilation, hitting all of those responsible.

  • 0

    tclh

    Iran will not be stupid enough to nuke Israel or US... it is unthinkable,not in the forseable future anyway.Possible scenario would be that Iran will "hire" somebody else to do it for them.

  • 0

    Madverts

    "hearing it from an internet poster vs. hearing it from the head of Iran is a bit different."

    Heh - I guess you're right but I take the rah-rah from all the radicals whatever their persuasion with a pinch of salt. In reality, there's as much chance of Iran nuking anyone as there is of Saddam coming back to sort out the mess in Iraq.

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    Clintons speech is idiotic and completely baseless. I will tell you why. Iran has never ever threatened Israel. Therefore when Clinton says IF. There is no IF. I can come of a few reasons to why Clinton comes with this racist war mongering speech. AIPAC owns Clinton. Clinton needs to come with racist war mongering talk to get support and votes from the racist Americans including AIPAC who ofcource support the racist state Israel.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Heh, when old Mahmood suggests wiping "Israel off the map", doesn't that constitute as at least some sort of a threat, george?

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    Who is Mahmood? No one ever said anything about wiping anything off any map. This is yet an another Zionist conspiracy that people are buying into. Just as the WMD conspiracy. He said the criminal apartheid Israeli regime must come to an end just like the fall of Communism in USSR. The word map never appreaed on any of his speeches. If people have not figured it out yet. It does not take much intelligence to be able to see through the American propaganda which people are spoon fed through the idiot box. Repeating the same lies over and over does not make it more ture.

  • 0

    Madverts

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MahmoudAhmadinejadand_Israel

    He said what he said george. I of all know how much can be lost in translation, but even if he were simply talking of removing the zionist regime rather than the people themselves, heh, it's still a threat, good buddy.

    I bet you love your prisonplanet.com, neh?

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Zaphod,

    If you are saying that Israel would be less vigorous in its own defense than the United States would be in defense of Israel, I'll have to disagree.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Sez,

    Me too. Apart from that disaterous foray into the Lebanon in '06, I doubt very much the Israeli's would hold anything back if attacked by Iran.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    redacted,

    Whatever the Samson Option might be, I don't think that the Europeans are going to worry about an attack by Israel. But that idea is attractively paranoid. And, if were European, I'd just shrug and say, "Those Americans!"

  • 0

    Madverts

    "But that idea is attractively paranoid"

    Heh. Radical conservatives do seem to be so in this day and age...

  • 0

    Madverts

    You already have a fairly balanced link to the actual speech and its' possible conitations.

    However you translate it, either favourably or non-favourably, the President of Iran made a threat towards the state of Israel.

    No amount of links from any of your red-eyed conspiracy sites will ever change this.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Go as slow as you like george. You've failed to refute the threat old Mahmood made towards Israel and now you're using the typical leftist denial tactic and introducing as many people and places as you can to try and obfuscate the issue...

    Better luck next time.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Not only entertaining, he's actually made us agree on something. On the back of that, I'm going to buy a lottery ticket. Heh, I'll split the winnings :D

  • 0

    Madverts

    No it was a threat. And you didn't read the link from a fairly reliable source that I gave you:

    "One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference."

    And here's you telling me it's a Zionist conspiracy controled by the media....(yawn)

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    I am not saying Iran is a shining example of democracy but it is more than clear that US and UK wants to further their agenda towards Iran and make some kind of an excuse to attack this country. Iran btw has not attacked an another country for centruies unlike UK and US. UK and US also destroyed Iran's democracy back in the 1950s. Now US and UK wants to invade Iran again by the looks of things.

  • 0

    Madverts

    george, one final time. The origin of the "wiped off the map" came from Iran's own english-speaking propaganda machine. However you wish to translate what what actually said (I presume in Farsi), the threat was there.

    Your original claim, which was "Iran has never ever threatened Israel" I have proven to be false.

    Introduce the sun, the stars an the moon if you like. It changes nowt.

    And besides, this thread is about Hillary threatening to wipe Iran off the map if they attacked Israel!

  • 0

    Maruku

    This is funny ... as is the rest of this campaign. I wonder how much the CC paid ABC for the prompt? What a farce! By the time the US scrambled their boys from Dubai or wherever, Israeli nukes would be well on their way to making sure it was Iran that was wiped off the map. Only then would Hillary's phone ring and she could play out her phantasy.

  • 0

    usaexpat

    I'm with you Maruku, the US doesn't scare the Iranians as much as the knowledge that Israel is more than capable of defending itself. I would guess that the mullahs in Iran realise that Israel if attacked would nuke Iran and not worry about world oppinion.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Heh - I guess you're right but I take the rah-rah from all the radicals whatever their persuasion with a pinch of salt. In reality, there's as much chance of Iran nuking anyone as there is of Saddam coming back to sort out the mess in Iraq.

    I know what you mean. I understand how much of a pain in the ass it can be dealing with the other side. ;)

    You and I probably agree than Iran wouldn't send warplanes and missiles into Israel either, but we'd also probably agree that they're attacking Israel on a near daily basis through Hamas and Hezbollah. In reality we're debating about what kind of attacks Iran would do, not if they ever would attack. They already are attacking.

    My guess is that a nuclear weapon would provide Iran with a shield which they can use to supply Hamas and Hezbollah with more potent weapons. They're limited by what they can do because any massive attacks through their proxies would bring a response, but with a nuke it would free them from that restriction. So my guess is that a nuke would be used to increase the severity of the conventional war that they're already engaged in.

    Would they ever use a nuke for offense? We can probably agree that there's no strategic value...but it's the radical Islam angle that removes things like logic and strategic value from the table.

    There's a new report saying Israel's airstrike on Syria took out a nuclear facility. Looks like it hasn't hit JT yet. But that's probably a good example of what Israel will do if it looks like Iran were on the brink of a nuke.

  • 0

    ca1ic0cat

    this is why nukes are only useful as a deterrent, isn't it? If you use one against a country that has their own then you are going to have a nuclear exchange with no winner except the cockroaches.

    The question then becomes "is there a government crazy enough to think that it could get away with it?" I'm not convinced the Iranians are, but I would bet that NK is closer to crazy.

    So Clinton's statement is just verbalizing what everybody already knows for political gain. Guess that's not going to change soon.

  • 0

    WhiteHawk

    Hang on. Clinton is saying she would do something as president that she wouldn't support doing as senator?

    The "sniper fire" story was more believable.

  • 0

    Madverts

    But that's probably a good example of what Israel will do if it looks like Iran were on the brink of a nuke.

    I'm not sure, but the Syrians didn't seem to make too much of a fuss after such a daring surgical strike so I guess they were up to no good and they know it.

    You know I have mixed feelings about Iran and that the US under Bush co basically made the use of hard power impossible after the Iraq fiasco. I think an Israeli/Iranian war would not be pretty so I doubt the Jewish state will attack Iran's nuclear facilities.

    I don't like Iranian ambitions any more than you, but it looks like they're going to go nuclear whether the rest of us like it or not.

    Hillary Clinton included.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    I'm not sure....I think Israel will act if it comes to that, and they'll do so if they think it's in their own best interests even if the US objects.

    I was just at the BBC and there's a new report saying Israel has offered Syria the return of the Golan Heights in exchange for peace. Looks like things are going in the opposite direction than what I had last posted.

  • 0

    OssanULTRA

    This is not the kind of statement that any US President should make. It most certaibly is not the kind of statement that a Presidential candidate should make. Does Hillary think this gets her the Jewish vote? All it did for me was reinforce by belief that this woman is not qualified to be CIC. What's she gonna do, start WWIII one day cause she got up feeling irritable?

  • 0

    Triple888

    What's with US. Every president was a warmonger. Even a potential president is already calling for potential wars.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    What's with US. Every president was a warmonger. Even a potential president is already calling for potential wars.

    Let's all welcome our new member to Japan Today.

  • 0

    dr_jones

    Hmm, not even President yet but already threatening other countries, interesting!

  • 0

    Blue_Tiger

    Why is it that the two most liberal presidential candidates -- ones who either opposed the war outright (Obama) or supported it, then opposed it, then supported it, then opposed it again (Clinton) -- are suddenly finding some sort of intestinal fortitude concerning war with countries other than Iraq and Afghanistan? Obama has publicly threatened Pakistan (nuclear-armed and an ally) and Clinton is now publicly threatening Iran! Has McCain threatened anyone yet, or is he sticking to the original plan of finishing the job in Iraq and Afghanistan first?

    I always find it amazing that he most "peaceful" of candidates somehow find their "hawks" when quesitoned or making statements about conflict in one form or another....

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    Madverts. You could not be further away from the truth. Iran has never threatened Israel. Ahmejinedad as you also agreed never used the word map in his speech. The Iranian Press never said anything about any map. Iran is not threatening Israel with destruction. Iran's president has not threatened any action against Israel.

    The Guardian's Jonathan Steele cites four different translations, from professors to the BBC to the New York Times and even pro-Israel news outlets, in none of those translations is the word "map" used. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,"

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathansteele/2006/06/post155.html

    Ahmadinejad was being prophetic, not threatening. He was citing Imam Khomeini, who said this line in the 1980s (a period when Israel was actually selling arms to Iran, so apparently it was not viewed as so ghastly then).

    Talking about a racist ideology which must come to an end is not the same as annihilating Israel. Therefore Clinton has not point what so ever. She also supported the invasion of Iraq has gove further than Iran ever has by actually supporting the annihilation and the blood bath of Iraq.

    But why should we be suprised? After all most American presidents are terrorists for knowingly killing innocent civilians.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Georgeroualt:

    you could not be further away from the truth. Iran has never threatened Israel.

    Mahmoud Ahmedinejad:

    "The world powers established this filthy bacteria, the Zionist regime, which is lashing out at the nations in the region like a wild beast."

    Who do we believe?

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    Even if your statement is true Ahmedinejad is not threatning Israel. He is coming with his view on Zionism and Israel. Where is the threat that Americans like to talk about in that sentence?

  • 0

    Madverts

    george,

    "Iran has never threatened Israel"

    I've already backed this up with evidence you have ignored on this thread umpteen times.

    You radicals really love banging your heads against the brick wall, dontcha?

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    You have not come with one link or source Madverts. The next time please back up with links.

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    Thanks for sharing links.

  • 0

    anderstungtwist

    there's a new report saying Israel has offered Syria the return of the Golan Heights in exchange for peace.

    For God's sake, don't do it. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. The muslims won't be satisfied until Israel is driven into the sea.

  • 0

    anderstungtwist

    this is why nukes are only useful as a deterrent, isn't (sic) it (sic)?

    They're kind of useful when used, though, too.

    BTW, who should we bomb if it's foggy in Iran?

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    UN Security council has already deamnded Israel to return all land they stole in 1967. Every country in the world including Syria and Hamas has only demanded back what Israel took from Arab countries in 1967. This is more than a very generous offer. So what is Israel waiting for?

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    BTW, who should we bomb if it's foggy in Iran?

    What has Iran ever done to USA? Absolutely nothing!People talk about striking Iran as no big thing. Not even thinking that there are people there and if you drop bombs in Iran thousands of people will die. Ofcource that is no big deal as USA is directly responsible for millions of deaths in Iraq.

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    Well, again it's a matter of voting for the lesser of several evils.

    " Has McCain threatened anyone yet, or is he sticking to the original plan of finishing the job in Iraq and Afghanistan first?"

    McCain is the supreme warmonger. On the stump, writes Doug Bandow (Antiwar.com), McCain sang, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" to the tune of the Beach Boys "Barbara Ann." During the Nato rape of Yugoslavia under Bill Clinton McCain favored sending ground troops. McCain wants to restart the Cold War with Russia. He might start a war with North Korea, which mean putting us here in harm's way. Read Bandow's article for a good fright: http://www.antiwar.com/bandow/?articleid=12738.

    Clinton is a fright and Obama, who at least had the guts to oppose the Iraq war, might become a fright once he becomes president. But McCain is already a walking horror.

  • 0

    Sarge

    "as president she wuld first do whatever she could to prevent Iran manufacturing nuclear weapons in the first place"

    That's what the current president is doing.

    "obliterate Iran"

    Wouldn't that result in the deaths, maiming and sickening of millions of Iranians?

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Yes, Sarge, obliterating Iran would result in the deaths of millions of people who, for want of a better word, are commonly called "innocents". And that is why people might do well to pay attention to what Reverend Wright really said in his chickens-coming-home-to-roost talk. There is no future in bashing out the brains of your enemy's children against a rock.

  • 0

    redacted

    "And that is why people might do well to pay attention to what Reverend Wright really said in his chickens-coming-home-to-roost talk."

    Why are you again discussing Wright, sezwho?

    Are you trying to link and make an issue of Iran's state religion with Wright and Obama - who happen to former Mohammedans?

    Sheesh.I'll try to phrase this in a way that "progressives" and the PC-obsessed can understand:

    This thread is about the consequences Ms. Clinton is promising if theocratic, imperialist, Islamo-centric, Israeli-phobic Iran makes good on any of the public threats uttered by the mullahs mouthpieces - Ahmadinejhad and before him Rafsanjhani.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Redacted:

    " Are you trying to link and make an issue of Iran's state religion with Wright and Obama - who happen to former Mohammedans? "

    Let us put one thing straight right away: As far as islam is concerned, there is no such thing as a "former Mohammedan". According to Sharia doctrine, leaving islam is impossible. If you do, the punishment is death. (Which Iran has just confirmed in its constitution.) Now that would put a really interesting spin on an visit by Obama to Iran, in addition to the virulent antisemitism of his pastor and their common mentor Louis Farrakhan.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    GRoualt:

    " What has Iran ever done to USA? Absolutely nothing! "

    Blowing up a barrack full of marines or invading and embassy would generally be called a cause for war. And financing and arming jihadist terror groups in Lebanon and Gazah, not to talk about Iraq, should also count a little, even in your strange book, wouldn't you say?

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    Actually you could not be further away from the truth Zaphod. It was Hezbollah who blew up a barrack full of marines. Welcome to Lebanon after Reagan chose to invade Lebanon but then changed his mind after the incident. A wise move by US.

    USA gives billions of dollars each year so that Israel can maintain an illeagal occupation! No occupation no need to resist. Iran invaded the Embassy in Teheran because for decades Shah was plundering the oil resources in Iran after US had destroyed the Iranian democracy. Shah an American puppet.The US embassy was in Teheran was dubbed the torture chamber.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    redacted,

    You confuse topic with supporting material. I'm discussing Sarge's comment about Clinton's vow of total retribution against Iran in the event that it launches a nuclear attack on Israel.

    Sarge noted, snarkily or not, that this would result in the deaths of millions. I agreed. And I added that to return hatred for hatred is decidedly un-Christian, even as an expressed sentiment. Apparently, for the overly-sensitive, I would have been better off to just quote Rev. Wrights text, Psalm 137, than to mention his name.

  • 0

    redacted

    " What has Iran ever done to USA? Absolutely nothing! "

    We are fighting a proxy war with them.

    WSJ:

    U.S. Says New Find Shows Iran Still Sends Arms to Iraq By YOCHI J. DREAZEN April 25, 2008; Page A1 WASHINGTON -- The U.S. military says it has found caches of newly made Iranian weapons in Iraq, leading senior officials to conclude Tehran is continuing to funnel armaments into Iraq despite its pledges to the contrary.

    Officials in Washington and Baghdad said the purported Iranian mortars, rockets and explosives had date stamps indicating they were manufactured in the past two months. The U.S. plans to publicize the weapons caches in coming days. A pair of senior commanders said a presentation was tentatively planned for Monday.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Well, then, if we said so, it must be true. But is it true like Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman, the Saddam-al Qaeda connection and Iraqi WMDs or is it true like death and taxes?

    If it is true like death and taxes, the sad fact is that our credibility is somewhat low at the moment.

  • 0

    GeorgeRouault

    If the White House says there is a proxy war against Iran it must be true. Therefore I being a patriot American have to support bombing Iran eventhough if this means taking my tax money and devaluating the dollar even more.

  • 0

    redacted

    "the sad fact is that our credibility is somewhat low at the moment."

    By gum, you could have a point there, ol' chum.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    GeorgeRoualt:

    " Actually you could not be further away from the truth Zaphod. It was Hezbollah who blew up a barrack full of marines. "

    Hezbollah is an Iranian creation. Thanks for making my point.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    I think that whatever Iran's role was in the organization and training of Hezbollah, Hezbollah is first and foremost a Lebanese organization. It pursues its own goals. These goals may sometimes be coincident with Iran's and that accounts for Iranian support. However, Hezbollah is not under the direction of Iran and was not under the direction of Iran at the time of the death of the marines.

  • 0

    redacted

    "However, Hezbollah is not under the direction of Iran and was not under the direction of Iran at the time of the death of the marines."

    Plenty of evidence to the contrary.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    It would be more likely that Hezbollah is under the direction of Syria than it would be under the direction of Iran. Your evidence would be what?

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    Clinton's remark was in regard to a hypothetical situation. What if Iran nuked Israel? she was asked. An extreme question and an extreme answer from her. It was a leading question and a stupid one. Iran does not have the capacity to nuke Israel and its leadership is not that stupid. ( A better question would have been What would you do if Israel nuked Iran? ) Clinton took the bait and gave an answer that was sure to be taken out of context.

    The reality is that in all the conflicts the world has seen since Hiroshima and Nagasaki not a single nation has used nuclear weapons in warfare.

    There is another reality that is closer to home that would have merited a more intelligent question to Clinton: What would you do if the Bush administration attacked Iran?

    War with Iran, or at least a US military strike against Iran is something that is likely to happen soon. This from the Sunday Times (London):

    >

    US warns Iran of retaliation over Iraq action

    Sarah Baxter in Washington

    America's top military officer has ratcheted up the pressure on Iran by issuing an unusual public warning that the Pentagon is planning for “potential military courses of action”. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, blamed the Iranian government and Quds force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard for its “increasingly lethal and malign influence” in Iraq. He said conflict with Iran would be “extremely stressing” for America’s overstretched forces, but added: “It would be a mistake to think that we are out of combat capability.” >

    You can read about it here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3822588.ece

    The reality is that neither Clinton nor Obama nor the Democrats are prepared for this development. They have not questioned the Pentagon's claims, as they have not questioned the Bush-Pentagon claims that North Korea was building a nuclear facility for Syria.

    We are looking at prospect of more wars, possibly one in our neighborhood here in Japan.

    Bush has learned he can start a war based on lies and get away with it. If it worked with Iraq why not Iran? What not Syria? Why not North Korea?

    Clinton and Obama will be at sea when Bush starts his next war. Clinton's remark suggests that she would back Bush. This will alienate many Democrats. Obama would probably oppose Bush and see his campaign drowned in national hysteria.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    jeancolmar:

    " Clinton's remark was in regard to a hypothetical situation. What if Iran nuked Israel? she was asked. An extreme question and an extreme answer from her. It was a leading question and a stupid one. Iran does not have the capacity to nuke Israel and its leadership is not that stupid. ( A better question would have been What would you do if Israel nuked Iran? ) "

    No, that would have been a stupid question. Israel has never used its military except for self-defense. Israel has no ideological background to nuke Iran. Israel respects the right of Iran to exist -- all it wants is to be allowed to the same.

    Ahmedinejad has threatened countless times to eliminate the "Zionist entitiy" from the face of the earth. His mullah mentors have repeatedly discussed the option of a nuclear attack on Israel and concluded that it is feasible -- Israel would be destroyed by one nuke, while the islamic world would survive many nukes. In Ahmedinejads ideology (the "12er" sect of the Shiites), a nuclear armaggedon would even be desirable, because it would herald the coming of the hidden imam. He has alluded to that many times in his speeches.

    The question to Hillary was entirely reasonable, and a nuclear attack by Iran on Israel, once Iran has its islamic bomb, is highly likely.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    I think it is not quite true that Israel has never used its military might except in self-defense.

    For the last 40 plus years it has been using its military might to protect territories that it seized and to extend the reach of its settlements. Additionally, what it did in Lebanon a few months ago was not self defense. It was mass collective retribution and it should have known better.

    So, while I think for Hillary to answer a question regarding what the US would do if Israel nuked Iran would be for her to answer a hypothetical which is not very likely (although considering that Israel has nukes possibly more likely than Iran using nukes), it would not be any more stupid than the question she was actually asked.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Sezwho:

    " For the last 40 plus years it has been using its military might to protect territories that it seized and to extend the reach of its settlements. "

    Israel has completely withdrawn from South Lebanon and from Gazah (and got more terror in response both cases). That is hardly "extending reach". The only territory that Israel holds is the West Bank, and that is a real problem that would not be solved by withdrawing from it.

    " Additionally, what it did in Lebanon a few months ago was not self defense. It was mass collective retribution and it should have known better. "

    Come again? Israel finally responded against Hizbollah rocket attacks that went on for month and months, while Israeli citizens had to live in bomb shelters. What is a country supposed to do when a state-in-a-state declares war on it?

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    And remember when Israel bombed an Iranian nuclear reactor? (Not an act of self-defense.) A question about nuking Iran is hardly stupid. Israel has the capability of launching a nuclear attack. There has been talk of Israel, not the US, making a strike on Iran in the near future. While I doubt that Israel would use its nuclear weapons if it does strike Iran, the fact that it is capable of doing so makes the question a fair one. You can ask a similar question about any nation with nuclear arms.

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    All this aside, "obliterating" Iran is probably going to start very soon. Visit Antiwar.com and read the lead articles about how Pentagon is linking Iran to the Iraqi resistance. Hilary is no doubt aware of this and taking a macho Hawkish stance. She is a Democrat but she might as well be a neocon. A Bush war just might backfire. Americans are sick of Iraq and want out. They might very well turn against anyone supporting such a war. But then, given the way the American media can generate war hysteria they might not.

  • 0

    Sarge

    Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran...

    Hillary's voice would be perfect for this song. xD

    jeancolmar - "A Bush war just might backfire"

    Is there any precedent for that?

  • 0

    Zaphod

    jeancolmar:

    " And remember when Israel bombed an Iranian nuclear reactor? (Not an act of self-defense.) "

    When did Israel bomb an Iranian nuclear reactor??? The accusations here get weirder and weirder.

  • 0

    mosc1

    Ms HillBillery she's a funny lady. Iran's on the border with Russia. Now its true America has an alliance with Israel, but to publically declare World War 3 to protect Israel's interests ... that's funny. People who buy Ms HillBillery and her disgraced husband, well there's a bridge in Arabia that's going cheap.

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    Excuse me, I meant Iraq. Israel bombed a reactor in Iraq 27 years ago. That "preemptive" strike was well before the Gulf War. It was not done in self-defense. Speculation is all a buzz about Israel doing the same to Iran.

    There going to be either a military strike against Iran, if not all out war. It is likely that Israel will The Pentagon has been accusing Iran of arming the Iraqi resistance. Here is the latest headline from Yahoo; "Is an Iranian general pulling the strings in Iraq?"

    How much of what we are getting about Iran is true and how much is disinformation? A fair question, given the amount of disinformation we got before Bush & company invaded Iraq.

    A better question that should have been asked Hillary is how can we avoid war with Iran.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    jeancolmar:

    " Excuse me, I meant Iraq. Israel bombed a reactor in Iraq 27 years ago. That "preemptive" strike was well before the Gulf War. It was not done in self-defense. Speculation is all a buzz about Israel doing the same to Iran. "

    Israel bombed the Ozirak reactor, and everyone was grateful for that. Before you discover the lastest "news", I can also remind you that Israel bombed North-Korean type nuclear reactor last year, that Syria had been building illegally.

    "Doing the same" in Iran is not possible, for logistical reasons. The US probably could, but will not.

    Iran will get its nuclear bomb, and chances are good that Iran will nuke Israel within the intermedate future, finalizing the "real holocaust" (Iran does not accept that the first one happened).

  • 0

    redacted

    Ms Colmar,

    It wasn't just any old reactor Israel took out, it was one named for your former leader, the oleaginous Jacques Chirac, who was such a good friend to Saddam Hussein.

  • 0

    Crucades

    Democrats...Republicans...

    America needs a viable voting option, its forever been a 2 horse race constantly with morons for jockeys.

  • 0

    grsmaz

    Iran has never threatened Israel but Israel has threatened Iran. Some person said Hezbollah was an Iranan creation. What a silly statement. Hezbollah emerged first after Lebanon was occupied by Israel. It was formed as a reaction to Israel who was occupying Lebanon. It was a national liberation movement to free Lebanon from Israeli occupation and they have been quite successful at that. If some country occupies some country you would expect resistance to free your country from occupation.

  • 0

    grsmaz

    Israel has not retreated from Gaza and Lebanon again an outrageous statement. Israel withdrew from most of Lebanon but occupies Sheeba Farms and Israel never withdrew from Gaza without an h as Israel controls the borders and never let go of that. Iran has never threatened Israel.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Zaphod,

    Israel continues to settle occupied territories and to protect the settlements. It's manner of conduct of the war in southern Lebanon did nothing to to contain Hezbollah but did manage to inflict severe civilian damage and to leave the area only marginally habitable due to residual cluster bombs. You can spin this however you want, but Israel's military is used for other than defensive purposes.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    Sezwho,

    Hezbollah (like Hamas) lobbed rockets into Isreali towns from the middle of population centers and then crows about "civilian casualties" once Israel finally responds. How exactly would you suggest to respond to that -- especially taking in account a press corps that says nothing about rocket victims in Israel, but immediately has screaming headlines once Israel responds?

    grsmza: The tiny Sheeba farms are claimed by both Lebanon and Syria. Israel has totally withdrawn from Southern Lebanon, which it occupied for a long time, in exchange for--- more terror from Hizbollah.

  • 0

    grsmaz

    According to UN Sheeba Farms belong to Syria according to Syria they belong to Lebanon According to Lebanon they belong to Lebanon According to Israel it belongs to Israel.

    What the world including USA has agreed on is that it does not belong to Israel. You got this completely upside down. Israel invades Lebanon occupies Lebanon Hezbollah tries to kick out Israel from their own country and try to get back their land back. If it was not for Israeli terror to begin with there would be no terror as you say by Hezbollah.

  • 0

    redacted

    "America needs a viable voting option, its forever been a 2 horse race constantly with morons for jockeys."

    Name the option.

    Can't?

    Who is the moron?

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Zaphod,

    What I would not do is to wreak the kind of destruction on Lebanese civilians and Lebanese infrastructure that the Israelis did in response to the kidnapping of two soldiers. This destruction was not defensive. It was retributive.

    This was similar in kind to the sort of attempted obliteration that Clinton was talking about. It was ineffective and misguided in Israel's case. It would be ineffective and misguided as a US response in the ridiculously hypothetical case of an Iranian nuclear attack on Israel.

  • 0

    grsmaz

    You cannot kidnap a soldier SezWho2. It is a capture then. The Israeli soldiers were captured inside Lebanese territory. How could it be an act of war if the Israeli soldiers were captured inside Lebanon? By the looks of things it looks as if Israel was planning a war against Hezbollah once and for all and they needed the right excuse to do it. Hezbollah captured the soldiers to have a prisoner swap.

    Moderator: Back on topic please. Posts that do not refer to Clinton's comments on Iran will be removed.

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    Yes indeed, back to Clinton's comments. What ought to be underscored at this point is the real nature of Clinton's response to the inane, indeed childish question of Iran nuking Israel. She could have been logical and analytical, pointing out that Iran does not have the facilities to launch a nuclear attack on Israel and that it is unlikely it would launch a nuclear attack even if it did, citing the fact that no nuclear armed nation has used nuclear weapons in all the wars fought after World War II. She could have said simply that in the event Iran nuked or, for that matter, attacked Israel, the US and its allies would declare war on Iran. But what she said was vague and disingenuous: "In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them.”

    Let's deconstruct this.

    First off, she did say she would obliterate Iran as president. She simply said that "we" have the power to obliterate Iran. This a mere truism. Having the power does not mean using it. "In the next tens" does not necessarily have anything to do with her if she became president. In the next ten years could be tomorrow or after her presidency. In short the answer she gave was a non-answer. But she did use the provacative word "obliterate." Thus, though her answer signified nothing it nevertheless was filled with the sound and the fury that we associate with the neocon hawks.

    Clinton is fence-sitting. She knows (probably better than her rival Obama) that there is going be military action taken against Iran in the near future. She does not know the size and the scope and how the American public will react, even if the media launches its typical war hysteria and shuts out dissenting voices. The Americans are sick of Iraq. But they are also easily misled into supporting American wars. So, given how the wind blows, Clinton is ready to either be a hawk or dove or something in between. "Obliterate" suggests that being a hawk would best serve her interests. But the fact that her answer was in the end so tentative suggests that she is ready to turn dovish if the war or Iran turns into another disaster like Iraq.

    Remember two things about Clinton: She was next to her husband when he orchestrated the Nato rape of Yugoslavia and she voted from the making war on Iraq--though she says she would not do now knowing what she knows (which is what we who opposed the war from the start knew all along).

    If you want to see Clinton's remark within the proper context you will need to go to news sources outside Japan Today. You'll see that the Pentagon is gunning for Iran.

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    Opps. Third paragraph should read: She did not say...

  • 0

    JeromeInJapan

    Great! Just what we need another war and more senceless loss of human life. Hillary you definatley don't get my vote.

  • 0

    Zaphod

    jeancolmar:

    " Yes indeed, back to Clinton's comments. What ought to be underscored at this point is the real nature of Clinton's response to the inane, indeed childish question of Iran nuking Israel. "

    There is nothing inane about it. Ever since the Iranian islamic revolution, Iranian leaders have been spewing hate against the Jewish state, and Ahmedinejad has repeated announced the coming destruction of the "zionist entity" (he consistently refuses to even use the name Israel). Khameni is on record for having speculated that the islamic world can easily survive many nukes, while Isreal would be destroyed by a single one.

    With a nuclear armed Iran, Israel will be under permanent threat. And a first use by an Iranian president (be it Ahmedinejad or another mullah appointee) is ENTIRELY possible.

    What is inane is to pretend that reality is otherwise, because we don`t like it.

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    Zapod, Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Israel does. Asking what you would do if a non-nuclear power attacked a nuclear power is inane. The Iranians and the Israelis have exchanged bitter words, but so far this has not led to military action. Of the two countries, Israel is the one most prone to attacking its neighbors on slim pretexts. So the question was inane for that reason too. I would have asked the question differently: In your judgement, what are the chances of Iran taking unilateral military action against Israel and Israel taking unilateral military action against Iran? This would have required more than a sound bite answer.

    Given the kind of answer Clinton gave, she might as we have been asked, "What if space aliens invaded the Earth."

  • 0

    grsmaz

    Iran has never threatened Israel. Iran have said. *The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," * On the other hand US is threatning to nuke Iran and Israel has threatened with the destruction of the Iranian nation. The only tough words and lies are coming from Clinton and Israel.

    Clinton has come with more idiotic statements. Clinton exploited the baseless accusation of Holocaust denial of Iran. For a start the Holocaust happened in Europe also Iran never did deny the Holocaust.

    More Clinton lies here.

    “To deny the Holocaust places Iran’s leadership in company with the most despicable bigots and historical revisionists,” the latter prosecuted and imprisoned in Europe for the crime of historical research, now considered “despicable” bigotry if it questions the Holocaust orthodoxy. One cannot help but ask if Clinton is running for political office in the United States or Israel.

    http://adereview.com/blog/?p=19

  • 0

    jeancolmar

    The second sentence in the first paragraph should read: " Asking what you would do if a non-nuclear power attacked a nuclear power with nuclear weapons is inane."

    This is what comes of not writing for money.

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