Crimean MPs vote to join Russia; U.S. unveils sanctions

Well, this is interesting. I did not think Russia would have given up so quickly on Ukraine.

This is so laughably illegal as to be farce. In Kissengerian (I'm not sure that's really a word...) terms, there is little that the West can do to role back this annexation, but that is not to say that Russia should not pay a cost for Putin's follies.

A full range of economic sanctions should be undertaken starting with a reduction of dependence on Russian LNG imports.

Next, Russia should be cut off from access to Western banking systems, and very intrusive audits of overseas deposits with asset freezes for those found to be involved in criminal activity (in Russia? No!) should be instituted.

Vladimir thinks (w reason unfortunately) that the West lacks the collective will to counter his antics. It's time to show him that he is mistaken.

Sanctions?!? More like the West kicking and screaming like a two-year old. Russia seems to be the only country in Europe that has a pair.

The current situation in Crimea is still murky let alone very dangerous. The US is not sure if Russia is going to let Crimea become a part of Russian federation or Putin just wants to leverage Crimea as a bargaining chip to work something out for his gains with the US led western alliance or both.

The world may have to wait for a bit longer until the crisis is fully unwrapped.

I think as the crisis is deepening and shaping out, many countries in the world will feel the pinch in a tangible and untangible ways in months to come.

As for sanctions exerted by the US and west, the Russians economy and currency would definitely be impacted negatively, but the west, especially EU may also have to absorb some unavoidable collateral trade and economic damages as well.

For Japan, things could be forked in separate ways: it could be benefited to a degree that the Russians may be willing to sell more nagual gas to Japan at a hefty discount in short run, but on other areas such as the security commitments from the US could be put in the back burner until the whole Ukrainian crisis and the aftermath are solidified, which no ones know how long this crisis may last at this point.

Vladimir thinks (w reason unfortunately) that the West lacks the collective will to counter his antics. It's time to show him that he is mistaken.

Unfortunately, Putin is probably not mistaken. The west does not have the will or strength of character to do anything. Obama and Europe will out on a show of some type, but will not bark too loudy. In fact, what can they do? The eceonomies of the west have become fragile after decades of government mismanagement, recksless spending, and record accumulations of public sector debt. Russia can tip the entire world into another decade of recession with a push of it's little finger.

The west sat on it's hands as Putin grabbed more and more power in Russia. It did nothing when reporters found ballot boxes in Russia already full of votes before polling places were opened, it did nothing when it was discovered the official ballot marking pens contained erasable ink. It did nothing as Putin filled parliament with his own supporters.

When president Assad "crossed the red line" and used chemical weapons in Syria, Putin came in on Assad's side. President Obama and the west put their tails between their legs and backed down. This action helped set the stage for the fall of the Ukraine.

Putin knows that the west has become weak, stupid, and corrupt, and will allow themselves to be manipulated, and pushed around. The west has become enamored with stupid vagaries like "social issues", with the main political talking points being taken up with health care, marijuana legalization, gay marriage, and other nonsense. The leaders of the west have been elected over their support of issues which are entirely irrelevant, making the leaders themselves entirely irrelevant.

As America is supposed to be the world's last super power, it committed a great blunder by electing a president who had no economic, professional, foreign policy, or military experience. How could such a person have any influence over the likes of Vladmir Putin? America wanted "change we can believe in". Well, this change is happening now, isn't it? Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

jeff198527,

I'll pose the same question to you that I've posed to other posters who have accused the West of not doing enough in this situation. Since you belive Russia "has a pair", unlike the rest of Europe, what would it take for you to believe the West "has a pair"? In other words, what exactly do you think the West should do to compel Russia to back down?

Hmm....may be Japan should also ask countries if they want to part of Japan again! Start with Korea!

So they invade a Ukrainian state, then call for an annexation?! Why does this sound familiar? Oh that's right, Putin was in the KGB when it was under the USSR.

Unbelievable.

The West isn't going to do anything. America and the Europeans don't fight people who can actually defend themselves.

sighclopsMar. 07, 2014 - 09:22AM JST "why this sound familiar? Oh that's right, Putin was in the KGB when it was under the USSR."

It's sound familiar cuz of Vietnam, Afganistan, Irak, Siria, Egypt, etc... and ........he he Were all these American leaders in KGB? Accordingly your "logic" Klinton was in KGB? Is Obama in KGB too?

Ops, Falklands too ))

The West isn't going to do anything. America and the Europeans don't fight people who can actually defend themselves.

Of course we don't. And neither does Russia, or anyone else for that matter. Just look how much damage our little "elective" wars in the ME have done. Do you honestly want to see the real deal?

Any economic sanctions that EUS impose will boomarang and result in negative economic effects both in EU and in US.

Obama is holding a hand full of mixed suit low cards, no pairs, no straight. Ante up?

@jeff198527

You still haven't answered LFRAgain's question! I am also waiting to see your answer.

I don't think the West should do anything. Crimea wants to be part of Russia, so be it.

@sangetsu03

Yes, I agree with most of your points.

As America is supposed to be the world's last super power, it committed a great blunder by electing a president who had no economic, professional, foreign policy, or military experience. How could such a person have any influence over the likes of Vladmir Putin? America wanted "change we can believe in". Well, this change is happening now, isn't it? Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

I am not an American, and probably should not comment on this, but, I could not put the blame on the current president. Trying to see a bigger picture, I think the West lost the unique historical chance not to antagonize Russia, rather - to establish friendly, open and sincere relationship about 20 years ago, when the Cold War was over, USSR collapsed and Russia was very weak. And to keep the promise that NATO will not expand "a single kilometer" to the East from its current (then, 1992) borders. We know what happened instead, and from the viewpoint of Russians, the West is behaving in a neocolonial way, trying to contain Russia, to ignore its geopolitical interests, to apply double standards regarding Russia, and to "talk" to it from the position of a dominant power holder. This mentality seems to be still there, the only difference is that the world is not unipolar anymore, and it does not work as well as in 1990s and 2000s.

@LFRAGAIN

I'll pose the same question to you that I've posed to other posters who have accused the West of not doing enough in this situation. Since you belive Russia "has a pair", unlike the rest of Europe, what would it take for you to believe the West "has a pair"? In other words, what exactly do you think the West should do to compel Russia to back down?

To answer that question, The president doesn't have a pair, because he's weak, pure and simple. Europe has a lot to lose, if you want to call it weak or NOT willing to take a chance, your call, but Europe has a lot more to lose then the US, since most of the Europeans depend on Russia for a lot of their gas and they're going to rock that boat too much. Again, there is NO guarantee if a Republican being in office would have deterred Putin from going into the Ukraine, however had it been Bush (for example) there would have been a bit more hesitation at least than with Obama whom Putin just gave him a Non-physical beat down. Also Obama was weak with Bashar Assad, still in power. Iran-still making Nukes, Iraq and Afghanistan, no SOFA agreement in place. You have a community organizer trying to understand how the world works. He's out of his element and everyone including Russia, China and Iran are watching his handling of foreign policy and it failed. In short, Putin would have done this regardless who occupied the White House, there is nothing anyone can really do. Had Obama been more of a Hard *** when it comes to foreign policy from the very beginning of his presidency, Putin would have behaved differently, I believe that. At least he would have thought twice before setting foot into the Ukraine, but because of the way Obama is, that too, probably gave Putin all the more reason to encourage him to go in and take Crimea. Add to the military cuts, there is nothing now that the US can do, you can block Russians visas, freeze their assets, kick him out of the G8, in the end, it means nothing to Putin, NOTHING! In the end, he still has Crimea and the world WILL NOT make him give it back, that ship sailed about a week ago.

"In other words, what exactly do you think the West should do to compel Russia to back down?"

Maybe not as much as you think. The days of an isolated Soviet Union economy are over. Because Russia is now intertwined with the west, it's stock market is tanking and investments from overseas are being put on hold. And Russia's dependence on selling oil and gas, while still important to Europe, is overall losing the clout it once had. So it's possible that the more aggressive Putin becomes the more his economy will suffer even without drastic sanctions.

The epicenter of the crisis has been Crimea—a rugged region seized by Russia in the 18th century and annexed to Ukraine in Soviet times as a “gift”, which is still home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

Ukraine can not cry fool about new development. former USSR Premier Nikita Khrushchev gave Crimea as a “gift” to his adopted country. If the residents of Crimea wanted to join Russia as before it was given away, it should be welcomed as Latinos residents of Florida wanted their state to join as part of the Cuba. In the future southern states of US may want to join with their southern neighbors too. In the democracy, majority ruled. White people are becoming minority in Some of the states in US.

Back in 1999, US has supported ethnic Albanians of Kosovo founded new nationhood. Crimea is a new Kosovo now. If it will be still part of Ukraine, ethnic tension and political division will be uncontrollable.

Russia is already paying a heavy price for intervening in Ukraine, Western officials said Thursday.

Tumbling stock markets and a big currency devaluation are delivering a blow to its faltering economy. "So far we've seen a major impact on the Russian economy and the Ukrainian economy, and some financial impact on countries that border that area," said European Central Bank President Mario Draghi. "The impact on the Russian economy is severe."

Russia's central bank was forced to jack up interest rates to 7% from 5.5% on Monday in a bid to stabilize markets and counter the impact of a near 10% decline in the value of the ruble this year.

Russia earns more from exports than it pays for imports, thanks to its role as a leading world energy supplier. But it does buy food, clothing, medicines, machinery and transportation equipment from major trading partners such as Europe and China, and a weaker currency will make those imports more expensive. The ruble has stabilized this week, but it still is one of the world's weakest currencies so far this year.

Shares in Russia's leading companies have fallen 7% since the start of this week, and are now down 11% in 2014. That compares with a 3% decline across emerging markets.

Russia wants Crimea and all the talk about further action is designed to give the West something to negotiate Russia into not doing something saving face for all and leaving Crimea in Russian hands. Move made, gambit over, the game goes on.

Great post: " - the demonstrations in Kiev overthrew a not very likeable but nevertheless a legitimate president of Ukraine , not at a ballot box but through street protest...the western media headlines are all about freedom, liberation and bright future for the people. When Crimea on the other hand which has a predominantely Russian speaking population that seems to ovewhelmingly prefer to stay close to Russia and its 78 out of 86 MP,s vote for integration...media headlines are all about "illegitimacy ", illegality and increasing tensions. Hmmm....."

Indeed! Violent illegal ouster of legitmate(yet unpopular, corrupt) president ＝ good; Referendum for citizens to decide their region's fate ＝ bad. Got it. Democracy without rule of law.

bass4funk: The president doesn't have a pair, because he's weak, pure and simple.

Oh boy.... You need to step up your game a bit. Let me see if I can help you manufacture something.

Again, there is NO guarantee if a Republican being in office would have deterred Putin from going into the Ukraine, however had it been Bush (for example) there would have been a bit more hesitation at least than with Obama whom Putin just gave him a Non-physical beat down.

Yeah, you need to abandon this. I could just as easily say that Putin fired shots over Georgia when Bush was in office, but for now he's staying put. Then I could say it's because Putin is 10 times (or maybe 50 times?) more afraid of Obama than Bush. I don't need any evidence, it just sounds good. But most people will know that you're making stuff up. That's what I don't say such things, and I doubt even you could get away with it. Too fuzzy.

Putin would have done this regardless who occupied the White House, there is nothing anyone can really do

This is the biggest problem for the radical right. They want to say that there's nothing anyone can do, but they also want to say that Obama is weak for doing nothing. It's a contradiction, so you'll have to find a way around that. Looks like both you and sangetsu are on the same page with giving a historical perspective, but notice how he focuses on "the West" while adding Obama at the end. I recommend this.

Add to the military cuts, there is nothing now that the US can do

Bravo! This one is pretty good. Military cuts are in the news because of the new budget, so you can blur the lines a bit. Not that the new budget has anything to do with this, but you have some low information people you can speak at. It's a good link to make even if it's bogus, so I'd recommend using this is every post.

Overall, there's more work to be done. You can't keep saying Obama has no options while saying he's not doing anything. That's your biggest weak spot. Clear that up and you should have a good manufactured narrative.

Jean: Obama is holding a hand full of mixed suit low cards, no pairs, no straight. Ante up?

Be patient, my friend. Post only when necessary, and mostly just to give props to other people who have posted so technically you're not using your own words. You've already crossed the line by saying Russia has every right to invade a country that they have a base in. That will come back to haunt you when you say the US needs to stay out of world affairs in all situations. It will expose your hypocrisy. I know it's hard, but you should take a back seat in this conversation. You were doing well in the beginning, but don't put to much stock in the "success" of others. Keep your cards close to your vest.

Yeah go ahead and sanction Russia, the EU and UK will have no gas or other vital commodities it relies on from Putins huge supply depot called Russia.

The west cannot do much

"Yeah go ahead and sanction Russia, the EU and UK will have no gas or other vital commodities it relies on from Putins huge supply depot called Russia."

True, but Russia does get paid for that gas. Think they can afford to walk away from that huge income? It works both ways.

sangetsu,

Bravo! That was a quite the stirring performance. However...

o Russia tried to leverage the US securities it held against the US in 2008, while the US was still reeling from the Lehman Bros. fiasco. Russian dumped $160 billion of the US securities -- almost everything it had. The result? Nothing significant. Russia's little finger is virtually powerless against the world economy.

o Putin "grabbing power in Russia" is something the West had any power or right to mitigate in what way, exactly? Please illuminate me as to how the West was supposed to prevent Putin from amassing political power in his own country.

o When Assad "crossed the red line," it was also when intelligence gathering sources around the world confirmed the very real possiblity the chemical weapon attacks weren't carried out by Assad, but rather were the result of violent in-fighting among the opposition, a truth that bears out as Syria edges closer to civil war. Added to the mix that that some of the opposition are as bad as or worse than Assad himself, and the US was smart not to run into that guns a blazin'.

o You've got a problem with the American electorate choosing to focus on getting its own house in order before sending their sons and daughters across the globe to dictate the affairs of other houses? Interesting.

o Meanwhile, you still keep harping on Obama's lack of X, Y, and Z experience. No military experience: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt. Madison, Lincoln, FDR, Clinton: All lawyers. Other than being well-connected politically, evidence indicates that other experience bears little relation to whether one is agood president or not.

How could such a person have any influence over the likes of Vladmir Putin?

Gotta love the "Putin envy" of the American right-wingers. I guess there's something about the ex-KGB agent that the neo-cons and tea-baggers find inspiring.

"Crimea wants to be part of Russia, so be it."

That would be the majority of the Russian citizens in the part of Ukraine known as Crimea want to be part of Russia.

It's like Quebec wants to be independent of Canada or Scotland wants to be independent of the U.K. The rest of Canada and the U.K. voted no.

'Again, there is NO guarantee if a Republican being in office would have deterred Putin from going into the Ukraine, however had it been Bush (for example) there would have been a bit more hesitation at least than with Obama whom Putin just gave him a Non-physical beat down'

Dealing in hypotheticals as well as doubting if your beloved GOP could have done anything anyway while blaming Obama. Utterly pointless as well as bizarre logic. Anything constructive to offer apart from the usual broken record rants against Obama?

Actually Crimea is not quite like Quebec and Scotland. Crimea was part of Russia from the 18th century until 1954 when Khrushchev unilaterally made a gift of it to Ukraine. Quebec was a territory of France and Scotland was an independent country. Also Crimea is small. It is only important as naval port.

jeff198527,

I don't think the West should do anything. Crimea wants to be part of Russia, so be it.

You are being disingenous at best. Otherwise, why the silly song and dance about Putin "having a pair" while Europe doesn't. C'mon. Say what's really on your mind.... :)

Back in 1999, US has supported ethnic Albanians of Kosovo founded new nationhood. Crimea is a new Kosovo now. If it will be still part of Ukraine, ethnic tension and political division will be uncontrollable.

It is true! West have no moral ground for telling Crimea people decision. Pot called Kettle Black! They have black listed KLA( Kosovo Liberation Army) as terrorist before Kosovo war. When there was clash between Ethnic Albanians and Serbians in former Yugoslavia, NATO suddenly changed color as cobra and made the Air Strike to Serbians Arm Force. Due to their intervention, Yugoslavia has been disintegrated as many nations. During NATO campaign of stopping ethnic clash in Yugoslavia, Russia did not interfere. It is also true for west to behave like Russia back then.

Now west is threatening Russia with economic sanction and trade embargo. EU need Russia gas more than human need oxygen for breathing. They will talk touch! At the end, they will request for more energy supply. Russia is Saudi Arabia for EU. US overall trade with Russia is less than two percent of export of Russia. US sanction will be the drop of bucket into the ocean for Russia.

According Bush infamous battle Cry "The course of Crimea is not depending on others" for choosing their destiny. Scotland will make referendum in 2014 too. It is the promising start for Okinawa, Quebec, Florida and people republic of California for following Crimea referendum.

@jeff

)>Gotta love the "Putin envy" of the American right-wingers. I guess there's something about the ex-KGB agent that the neo-cons and tea-baggers find inspiring.

That would be Obama's shellacking he received from Putin, time and time again, the community organizer vs the ex KGB agent. You'd think he would have caught on by now, but Nooooo.....

@jimizo

Dealing in hypotheticals as well as doubting if your beloved GOP could have done anything anyway while blaming Obama. Utterly pointless as well as bizarre logic. Anything constructive to offer apart from the usual broken record rants against Obama?

At least, most republicans wouldn't have taken it right where the sun don't shine. Obama is NO match for Putin, he's outmatched and outsmarted. Oh, as far as being constructive, you libs didn't do anything? Obama is just talking, talking and more talking. Is there a resolution......silence.

I love this: "“'We are against Putin’s aggression, we fear that it will scare tourists away,' said Lilia Ivanova, manager of a local Intourist travel agency."

Amazingly, the most Soviet or Soviet institutions has survived the regime change. I would think the very name "Intourist" should scare people away. I know Intourist intimately. They lose papers and blame you. Intourist is United Airlines on steroids. But like UA Intourist can have its endearing moments.

Frankly, I think this is the time to visit Crimea. The Russians are in their manic stage. I image being invited to homes and being plied with food and vodka and being told over and over why Crimea is Russian. I imagine hitting it off with the Ukrainians and the Tartars too who would tell me their troubles. I am a good listener.

This occupation by the Russians is like no other occupation I have ever known. Except one. When the governor put my college town (not hometown) under martial law. We were so happy when the National Guard came because we did not have to fear the police Tactical Squad any more. Did we ever show the National Guard a good time. This was when the illegal pepper gas the governor used against us was still in the trees and made us shed tears when the wind blew.

Crimea iis not Afghanistan and it is not Iraq. But the party will be over when the Russians leave and the Ukrainian tanks come.

Bass, you've slipped into AM radio mode again. Lots of feelgood statements, not much on fact or reason.

On the one hand you say things like "Putin took Bush to the cleaners" and "there is NO guarantee if a Republican being in office would have deterred Putin," and "Putin would have done this regardless who occupied the White House." Then you turn around and tell us that this is happening because, "[Putin] read [Obama's] card, he sized him up and he knows Obama is far to weak, to stupid to oppose him in any way."

From what I've read from you, the only difference between the "community organizer" and the President with "brass balls" (as you describe Bush), is that, in your own words, "there would have been a bit more hesitation." And Putin would have "thought twice." Really? That's it? A bit more hesitation and some fuzzy notion about thinking twice? Well it's good to know that Putin would have hesitated before doing something he would have done no matter who was in the White House. That makes all the difference in the world.

The only thing that I can gather from your comments is that nothing would have changed on the ground, but a Republican President would have looked better doing it. Instead of "taking it in the shorts." A Republican President would have made Putin more cautious in doing something that you say no one could stop either way. Great. Same outcome, completely different path, right?

Crimea is a stone's throw from Russia. Nothing can change that. No country wants to get involved under those circumstances since the cost is exponentially larger for our side than theirs. The key is Europe. If they decide the cost is worth it, then they will be on board with sanctions. If they are not, then US sanctions alone will work to isolate the US only, which is counterproductive. Once force is off the table, which I know you agree with, then we need a President who can navigate the complexities of competing interests putting forth a united front. It takes more brains that balls, but apparently you are more focused on the President's crotch than anything else.

@ Sangetsu03

I read many of the post and you seem to have the best of knowledge about what is really going on!! Good read!

Excuse me for daring to ask a question at the core of the controversy. I know I tend to ruin entire parties by doing this but...is it remotely possible the majority of the people in Crimea want to join Russia? Excuse me if its just unthinkable to ask what the people who live there want.

Right. And Chechnya votes to leave Russia. Let's see if Putin honors 'democracy'...