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JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Deal with conservatives sets up U.S. health care vote

World Jul. 30, 2009 - 07:15AM JST ( 12 )

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12 Comments

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minello7Jul. 30, 2009 - 08:38AM JST

"The United States is the only developed nation that does not have a comprehensive national health care plan for all its citizens." this was taken from this mornings MSN news. This says everything,politicians do not care about the people that put them in power.Republicans and your so called Democrats still only think of the interests of big business,and themselves,and this applies to politicians all over the world. Americans all over the world should be embarrassed about the above statement,you say you come from a great country,and I don't critisize you for thinking that,your support for wars,the space program,but you don't have or don't want "which" a National Health care program. Well now is your best chance to put this right,so come on lets hear you shout ,make the politicians hear you . YOU CAN MAKE A CHANGE.
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nisegaijinJul. 30, 2009 - 09:40AM JST
Yes, US healthcare is absolute crap, but it doesn't mean that socialized health care is the only solution. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify the causes of major flaws in US healthcare industry. 1. Over-regulation. Only a handful of drug companies can release their products on the US market. That creates an oligopoly that certaily drives prices through the roof. Same is for doctors and insurance plans.
1. Most insurance plans are available only to corporate clients. Deregulating this would allow smaller insurance firms providing limited coverage to individuals for small prices. By limited coverage I mean, you only get coverage if you illness is severe.
Free market competition can only drive costs down and quality up. It was proven over and over again in any industry that has free market. Medical care didn't have free market approach ever since Nixon changed the regulation and FDA was formed.
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zurcroniumJul. 30, 2009 - 10:07AM JST

Nisegaijin,

the free market is what has caused the US healthcare industry to nearly collapse. Same free market nearly drove the US into a depression six months ago. Greenspan apologized to the nation for his failure to see that the free market lead to the credit crisis and the housing meltdown.

Only loons believe in a free market system now. Its dead and has been totally disproven over and over again by behavioral economists. The ones that win nobel prizes lately. Look it up.

Medicare works, the VA system for GIs and vets works. The private health care system dominated by US insurance monopolies leaves 50 million uninsured and is a total failure for most Americans, even those that have coverage. Many are dropped once they get sick.
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StatisticianJul. 30, 2009 - 10:31AM JST

Nice to see that America may get proper healthcare at last.
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nisegaijinJul. 30, 2009 - 11:08AM JST

zurcronium, There is nothing absolutely nothing truthful in your post. Greenspan is the criminal behind the current collapse. He manipulated money supply so that borrowing became more easy. US interests rates were artificially low for years. How is this free market? Who the hell are behavior economists? Austrian economics proved ages ago that free market is the only way to go and they called every recession caused by Keynesian school that is practiced today.

Only loony communists believe that anything but free market can lead to success and prosperity. Look at North Korea, USSR and Cuba. The didn't have free market and where did it lead them? bankruptcy. Anything with central government planning will end up in the same bucket. Medicare may work, but it costs trillions. Net liabilities for US government is about 70 trillion dollars! At the same most qualified doctors still prefer to work with private insurers.

At the same time, I said in my post that there is nothing resembling free market in the existing health care system, yet you are calling me a loon? Typical liberal comment. You only attacked the word free market, yet you completely disregarded what I said in the rest of my post: free market system does not exist right now!
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lostrune2Jul. 30, 2009 - 05:39PM JST

There's got to be a right balance: total free market nor total centralized control do not work. One checks the other. Checks and balances.
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smithinjapanJul. 30, 2009 - 11:15PM JST

"Only loony communists believe that anything but free market can lead to success and prosperity. Look at North Korea, USSR and Cuba. The didn't have free market and where did it lead them? bankruptcy."

Now THERE'S pure and unbias logic for you, folks. It's simply amazing that in this day and age people are scared of the 'Red menace' and think you're a 'commie' if you have or aspire to a universal healthcare system like many successful countries have -- and the top ones to live in the world.
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smithinjapanJul. 30, 2009 - 11:27PM JST

nisegaijin: Actually, you're correct in one respect; the only system which is going to lead to prosperity in the MEDICAL FIELD is the free market. The rest of the country has to deal with the collapse of health care in general and the TENS OF MILLIONS uncovered, not to mention those who are suddenly not covered by their plans when they actually get ill.
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nisegaijinJul. 30, 2009 - 11:44PM JST

can you explain to me please? how can a free market system sustain itself if there are no customers? wouldn't desire to increase market share mean to make sure there are as products to vast variety of customers as possible?

don't forget, it is also people's responsibility to step forward and try to find some product that is suitable for them. I don't agree that government should force its solution for everybody.
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TheQuestionJul. 30, 2009 - 11:54PM JST

the free market is what has caused the US healthcare industry to nearly collapse. Same free market nearly drove the US into a depression six months ago. Greenspan apologized to the nation for his failure to see that the free market lead to the credit crisis and the housing meltdown.

We haven't had anything within spitting distance of a free market in decades in the health industry in decades. Small private pharmaceutical companies are virtually nonexistant and have been for a long time without even the most remote chance of making a comeback.

And unless I miss my guess the credit crisis was more the fault of moronic people borrowing more than they would ever be able to pay back and banks that are required by federal regulations to give them the loans and the housing crisis was, once again, cause by people who were biting off more than they could chew, artificially price manipulation, and banks stupid enough to provide loans to people that would never be able to pay them back.

These are the same banks that in all respects should have been liquidated and bought off but were instead bailed out so that people on both sides of the isle could complain when they did what large corporations do best, exploit the loopholes, in this case giving bonuses which they were legaly entitled to. Add that to the other gems the U.S government has provided over the years (Amtrak, Medicare, and Social Security to name a few) that have been losing money since their inception. But I'm sure that the the government couldn't possibly bungle what is quite possibly thier largest, most complicated program of this and the past century.

But I suppose we can at least take solace in the fact that every single house representative and senator are experts in the business and health field... oh wait.

The private health care system dominated by US insurance monopolies leaves 50 million uninsured and is a total failure for most Americans, even those that have coverage. Many are dropped once they get sick.

Lets look at what the up and ups have to say about that.

“It’s really indefensible that we now have more than 45 million uninsured Americans, 9 million of whom are children, and the vast majority of whom are from working families,” said Sen. Hillary Clinton in a May 31 speech.

that seems to indicate that; 1) The number 50 million is ill-founded (it was actually first coined by Michael Moore for his movie) 2) Many (not the majority mind you but many) of those uninsured have the capacity to get insurance but don't for whatever reason they may have.

And a couple of bits from the NCHC (National Coalition on Health Care)

The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.

Which means that 20% are neither native nor naturalized so we can lop of 9 million from the starting 45 right there leaving us with 34.

Another fun fact.

Government statistics also show 45 percent of those without insurance will have insurance again within four months after job transitions.

So after that 34 we can reasonibly say that at least 40% are uninsured because of seasonal jobs or because of job transitions so that leaves us with around 20 million completely uninsured. And then, just humor me for a moment, we say that maybe 5% of those people are uninsured by their own volition which brings it down to 19 million.

Now these 19 (or 20) million people are the real issue. People who are working a minimum wage, no benefits, don't qualify for medicare, and have no family support. Very sad indeed. However, wouldn't it be easier to just expand medicare a little bit and fixing a few of its coverage holes.

That way we fix an old problem, a new problem, and we don't have to spend nearly a trillion dollars dollars doing it. Everyone wins. Then, if Uncle Sam is feeling particularly adventurous he can try and do something about the premiums in the private sector if he's not to busy pating himself on the back (which he will be).
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TheQuestionJul. 31, 2009 - 12:03AM JST

And just so that I don't sound like I'm talking out of my arse any more than is absolutly nessicary here are my sources

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx

Now of course I nitpicked because I'm in favor of medicare reform over the useless giant thats trying to lumber through congress right now but my points stand.
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nisegaijinJul. 31, 2009 - 11:02AM JST

Now THERE'S pure and unbias logic for you, folks. It's simply amazing that in this day and age people are scared of the 'Red menace' and think you're a 'commie' if you have or aspire to a universal healthcare system like many successful countries have -- and the top ones to live in the world.

I was unfortunate enough to grow up in the red menace, so I know how bad it is and i definetly know where it ended up.

Just because system is functioning now doesn't mean its a good one. Socialized health care can only work and pay for itself during population increase and/or economic growth. Change in this patterns can lead to huge debt and possible default.