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JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Democrats' stumbling health care plan keeps moving

World Jun. 20, 2009 - 06:01AM JST ( 17 )

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17 Comments

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bushloverJun. 20, 2009 - 02:11PM JST

Yeah model healthcare on our northern neighbors and watch the abuse of the system with all the druggies coming for prescriptions. Utopia indeed.
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BadseyJun. 20, 2009 - 03:39PM JST

As every socialist/progressive knows "we must blindly move forward and forget the past"
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MolenirJun. 20, 2009 - 04:18PM JST

Yeah model healthcare on our northern neighbors and watch the abuse of the system with all the druggies coming for prescriptions. Utopia indeed.

No, watch the drug companies start folding, one after another. Watch all the private health insurance companies, quit the business.

Something else to point out about this plan. One of Obamas famous campaign promises is of course being cast aside. During the campaign, he promised in seeking health care reform, people would be able to choose their providers, and whether or not to be in the program or not. This is no longer the case. And his representative Gibbs, said, "that wasn't meant to be taken literally" As if you could take it another way. So a promise, becomes a lie.
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Helter_SkelterJun. 20, 2009 - 04:50PM JST

few details on how to pay for its trillion-dollar-plus price tag.

And Obama's job approval rating continues to go down. Any wonder?
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SuperLibJun. 20, 2009 - 05:53PM JST

Americans spend 2 1/2 times as much on health care as other industrialized countries

Anyone know what that means? I've always been curious.
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WolfpackJun. 21, 2009 - 12:27AM JST

Adding another huge entitlement when the government is not able to figure out how to pay for the one's they already have is just unconscionable. Has everyone forgotten that President Obama has just recently created the biggest national debt in human history? It is logically impossible to cover 47 million more people (many not even citizens) without a spending and taxation explosion or severe rationing of medical services (or combination of both). Patients will lose their ability to choose the doctors and the services they want. Their very life will be run through a cost/benefit analysis regardless of their ability to pay.

The biggest cost of all is the freedom that American citizens will have to give up. The government will decide if you live or die and the quality of life you will have if you are lucky enough to survive the governmnt's medical bureaucracy. Just look at the way that the VA hospitals, Medicaid, and Medicare or being run today - they are a mess of waste, fraud, and abuse.

Oh, and where will the rich Canadians, Europeans, and people from the Middle East go when they need life-saving surgery when they are unable to get such services in their own countries?
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Taka313Jun. 21, 2009 - 06:47AM JST

I see a lot of whining but no alternatives offered. Are all of you happy with the current health care system in America? Do any of you think it's a little scary that insurance companies, you know, the people you pay money to when you are healthy so that they will help you out when you are really sick, can cancel your insurance when you get sick? Personally, I find that disturbing and I would hope that it gets fixed, pronto.

And helter...

"Any wonder?"

Yeah! I wonder what you're talking about. Since the beginning of March, the president's approval ratings have not fluctuated more than 2 points away from 60%. That's hardly a continuous drop.

Taka
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MolenirJun. 21, 2009 - 07:59AM JST

I see a lot of whining but no alternatives offered. Are all of you happy with the current health care system in America?

Ah, apparently you haven't been bothering to read any of the posts then, just about every other one, talks about tort reform being the easiest, best way to solve the problems.
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inkjetJun. 21, 2009 - 08:11AM JST

Anyone know what that means? I've always been curious.

the us has, and provides more advanced and costly tests and treatments than other countries for starters.

we also we have way more and expensive law suits. that leads to astronomical insurance costs. it also leads to unnecessary testing (doctors have to be overly defensive). it's estimated by some doctor groups that medical costs would drop in half with tort reform. but obama has ruled it out.

there has not been one defense of that position made on any of the threads. just a lot of partisan yammering.

of course this is not a one issue problem. but tort reform is a huge missing piece of the debate. obama has a chance to do something historic here. shame on him if he can't go against his special interest buddies in favor of society as a whole.
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BeerpleaseJun. 21, 2009 - 08:26AM JST

The biggest reason that health care is so expensive in the States is that is is "for profit." Private insurance companies pay people (raising administrative costs by 30% or more) to deny you coverage. What you get is more expensive health insurance and poor heath care. And the health care industry pours millions of dollars to buy off our elected representatives while laughing all the way to their private jets to take them to their off-shore profits in the Caymans. Tort reform--hah! You fools.
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inkjetJun. 21, 2009 - 08:48AM JST

Private insurance companies pay people (raising administrative costs by 30% or more) to deny you coverage.

and the government will be more efficient? or will they be using volunteers?

you are implying the government will be much more receptive to accepting claims. just say yes we can! how exactly will that reign in costs?
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BeerpleaseJun. 21, 2009 - 09:10AM JST

Yes, it will be more efficient.
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BeerpleaseJun. 21, 2009 - 09:19AM JST

Some good blog entries to school yourself on the debate:

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/

Read and learn.
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goodDonkeyJun. 21, 2009 - 10:52AM JST

inkjet (RR) said:

it's estimated by some doctor groups that medical costs would drop in half with tort reform

Utterly ridiculous. It is just another example of the Republican party trying to fix the hole in the Titanic with a rubber bicycle patch.
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MolenirJun. 22, 2009 - 01:43AM JST

The biggest reason that health care is so expensive in the States is that is is "for profit." Private insurance companies pay people (raising administrative costs by 30% or more) to deny you coverage.

This is nonsense. The biggest reason health care is so expensive, is because of lawsuits. Lawsuits that cost the industry 100 Billion dollars a year. Costs that are passed on to the consumer. The patients.

I don't know why you people have such an aversion to the word "profit" Private insurance companies want to charge less too. It would mean more people covered, increased likelihood of payouts, but the increase in in income would offset that and then some.

Utterly ridiculous. It is just another example of the Republican party trying to fix the hole in the Titanic with a rubber bicycle patch.

Not nonsense. Read what I wrote above. It might be a bit extreme to think that the costs would drop by half, but they would drop significantly. Tort reform would mean doctors pay less for malpractice insurance, meaning less costs to maintain their practice, meaning lower cost visits. Drug companies would be able to charge less, and still maintain profitability, insurance companies, not fearing massive lawsuits would be able to lower their health insurance rates as well, leading to increased coverage for lower income people.

I don't claim it will solve all the problems. But its as close to a magic bullet as you're going to find, and a far better solution then nationalizing health care, and letting the government mismanage everything, like they do the VA. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't want a bureaucrat looking out for me.
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goodDonkeyJun. 22, 2009 - 11:43AM JST
Molenir said:

The biggest reason health care is so expensive, is because of lawsuits.

Some conservatives just can't help themselves. They will say anything. By Molenir's own numbers, he said 100 billion, this just can't make any sense at all.

Total health expenditures are estimated to be $2.16 trillion in 2006

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm050206oth2.cfm

So Molenir, by his own numbers, wants us to believe that a factor of 4.63% is "biggest reason health care is so expensive[.]"

I just don't understand the aversion some people have to truth. I do not like frivolous lawsuits but I do not want to see a cap on lawsuits. If they work on reducing frivolous lawsuits I am fine with that. However if I can no longer make a living because of iatrogenic causes then I should be able to recover my loses.

According to an article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), over 225,000 people die each year due to a physician's activity, manner, or therapy. This has become the third leading cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and cancer.
```
* 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
* 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
* 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals
* 80,000 deaths/year from infections in hospitals
* 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medication
```
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/284/4/483.pdf

It is only the U.S. Constitution that allows us the right to proceed in civil cases; not a big deal really. The conservatives scream "judicial restraint" but when it comes to matters they disagree with they will let go of our constitutional right to recover loses in the courts. Or perhaps they would like to introduce a constitutional amendment?
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teleprompterJun. 22, 2009 - 10:25PM JST

Since the beginning of March, the president's approval ratings have not fluctuated more than 2 points away from 60%.

I'm racking my brains trying to remember which Liberal economist it was that copped the Nobel Prize in Economics for proving that the key is to realize it's all a popularity contest.