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JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Did Pakistan soldiers shoot at U.S. helicopters?

World Sep. 23, 2008 - 05:39AM JST ( 18 )

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18 Comments

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some14someSep. 23, 2008 - 09:04AM JST

“Give us the intelligence and we will do the job,” he said in an interview with NBC. “It’s better done by our forces than yours.”

Not practical or expected from a country that was victim of 9.11 due intelligence failure at home. However, one possibility is there for USA, 'outsourcing' and india is well known for that.
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SezWho2Sep. 23, 2008 - 10:56AM JST

A series of suspected U.S. missile strikes into the lawless region and a Sept 3 raid by U.S. commandos said to have killed 15 people have highlighted U.S. impatience and angered many Pakistanis.

This region is not lawless. The people who actually live there know the laws.

The Afghanis and the Pakistanis likely know the laws, too. Afghanistan and Pakistan should be handling this problem, not the US.
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WilliBSep. 23, 2008 - 12:00PM JST

SezWho2:

" This region is not lawless. The people who actually live there know the laws. "

Yes, the laws of the Shariah. Which are not the same laws as the state of Pakistan. (Although in the long term, they will.)
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SezWho2Sep. 23, 2008 - 12:11PM JST

WilliB,

Partly Shariah law. Partly inter-tribal law as understood over the centuries. I don't think that Pakistan will be governed by Shariah law in the future, but we may see the government fall under Islamic control.
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WilliBSep. 23, 2008 - 02:31PM JST

Sezwho2:

" I don't think that Pakistan will be governed by Shariah law in the future, but we may see the government fall under Islamic control. "

You can think what you want, but the development on the ground is clear: The Jihad is succeeding, and secular government is losing. Already North Waziristan and the Swat valley are under Shariah, and the trend is one-way. And since Pakistan has islamic principles written into its constition, it has no real idological basis to resist. Because secular islam is a contradiction in terms.
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MadvertsSep. 23, 2008 - 03:55PM JST

Where do The Ants stand in all this, willi?
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MadvertsSep. 23, 2008 - 05:48PM JST

No, the conspiracy says Paris falls first, (as usual) however there is the slight problem that the "sharia law subhurbs" willi claims exist, actually don't.

But that shouldn't stop us being terrirfied of the Islamic hordes coming to take us away, ah-ha!
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SezWho2Sep. 23, 2008 - 05:49PM JST

WilliB,

Thank you. For a while there I was afraid I was going to have to think what you thought. I wouldn't have liked torturing my brain that way.

I don't think the development on the ground is at all clear. The only thing that is clear is that Pakistan is more heavily influenced by Islam than the US would like it to be. The quickest way to drive Pakistan to any kind of sharia law would be for the US to keep meddling.

North Waziristan does not represent a trend. That is old, old news--before you and I were born, before the British got notionate about their empire. That was a region that had been waiting for some version of sharia ever since Alexander and probably before. As for the Swat valley, Pakistan disputes that Islamic militants are in control there.

Secular Islam is a contradiction in terms, but so what. A state may be Islamic without having sharia law.
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adaydreamSep. 23, 2008 - 09:55PM JST

If U. S. helicopters went into Pakistan airspace, then Pakistan had all rights to shoot at the U. S. They already warned us. And we've said, screw you.

So when the Pakistani Army finally shoots down a U. S. helicopter, don't cry. < :-)
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SargeSep. 23, 2008 - 10:11PM JST

"If U.S. helicopters went into Pakistan airspace, then Pakistan had all rights to shoot at the U.S..."

But your man, Obama, said he would do just that.
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SargeSep. 23, 2008 - 10:13PM JST

adaydream - Obama said he would send the U.S. military into Pakistan without the Pakistani government's approval if he thought it was necessary. But that would be OK, because it's Obama who ordered it, right?
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adaydreamSep. 23, 2008 - 10:27PM JST

No Sarge. I don't agree with everything Obama says.

Like I said above, Pakistan said to stay out of their airspace and not to cross the border. This isn't some silent comment. It's been broadcasted to the world.

If the U. S. enters Pakistani airspace or crosses the border unlawfully, then I won't be surprised if we're stopped or even attacked by Pakistan.

Sarge, you advocate that we should just tell Pakistan, "screw you", and go on into Pakistan? < :-)
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WilliBSep. 23, 2008 - 10:35PM JST

Both McCain and Obama refuse to see the real problem with islam. They both stick to the ridiculous idea that islam has nothing to do with islamic terrorism, and that by stopping Al Quaida, they would stop the jihad against the free world. So, they both promise to act on fiction, not on fact.

However, I agree that Obamas bizarre contradictions in his police announcements add a surreal touch to this.
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bangerSep. 23, 2008 - 11:57PM JST

I think its right of pakistan Army to shoot at all INTRUDERS even its us forces or afghans.
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WilliBSep. 24, 2008 - 11:47AM JST

banger:

So you are saying the Pakistan armee is in charge in North Waziristan?
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unscrejectsSep. 24, 2008 - 02:22PM JST

WillieB: It has nothing to do with Islam. Go back to the cold war. The proxey wars uncle sam and the russians had going. Or read Kipling. It has been the favorite western scam - to use religious belief in getting people to fight or not fight in the region. Remember when the British army lost a battle because it's local soldiers were told that the oil paper covering their bullets was made from pig fat? The fighters being muslim of course would not bite open the packs lt alone touch them. Mohammed AL Zhiaq - anybody remember him - Sep '88 I believe they got him - a basket of mangoes knocked his chopper from the sky. The root cause of America's problem with Pakistan goes back to that time. Hey even Rambo turned against the mujahadeen/taliban. Oh let's ask about Najibulla. Who forced the UN to hand him over to the taliban? Pakistan is basically saying, "Jiggle your memories a little before you through all these problems our way. You repeatedly created these monsters and in our back yard too. Now you're telling us to smoke them out? How about sharing the dossier - who did you work with to set up the mujahdeen and it's decents?