Doctor convicted in failed London, Glasgow attacks

Wednesday 17th December, 05:03 AM JST

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Madverts at 12:48 AM JST - 18th December

"whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."

Heh, that sounds like the socialist unions in France....
SuperLib at 05:09 AM JST - 18th December

YangYong: A person becomes a 'terrorist' for a reason and with these people it has nothing to do with the Prophet Muhammed but with their and their peoples position in the world, namely their economic one.

Last I checked, Osama Bin Laden isn't a poor man. Neither are the leaders of Hamas, nor the Syrian or Iranian governments. Behind most terrorists acts are a well financed, very privileged group of men who choose the downtrodden to kill innocents on their behalf. They choose the downtrodden because they're easier to manipulate, but those who run the show aren't.
SuperLib at 05:45 AM JST - 18th December

I don't agree with people like smith who are telling me that Islam plays no part in terrorism. If you have a terrorist act from a Muslim you're going to find that in nearly all cases he's justifying it with teachings from Islam. You can't just remove Islam from the table and say that it's not a part of it. It is....just not the Islam that most people follow.

I don't know what the answer is....but I'm working on it. :)
Everton2 at 07:17 AM JST - 18th December

I am sick and tired of these sickos seeking to avenge the so called murder of Iraqis. These murders they have blindly attributed to American and British actions in Iraq, yet they ignore the large amount of casualties being leveled on the Iraqi people by El Qaeda. It really defies logic how young Muslims are so easily sucked in by this fundamentally flawed interpretation of Islam. But what is even more frightening is the lack of outcry from the majority of so called moderate Muslims who remain relatively silent in the face of such madness.
likeitis at 07:51 AM JST - 18th December

You are hilarious.

And you have no explanation for why terrorism on random innocents has only been a Muslim thing for 30 odd years rather than since the inception of Islam.

I see a lot of quotes of religious texts here. Do you have some other excuse for your cop out this time?

Moderator: Readers, please do not turn this discussion into a debate on the Koran or any other religious text.
likeitis at 08:52 AM JST - 18th December

I don't agree with people like smith who are telling me that Islam plays no part in terrorism. If you have a terrorist act from a Muslim you're going to find that in nearly all cases he's justifying it with teachings from Islam. You can't just remove Islam from the table and say that it's not a part of it. It is....just not the Islam that most people follow.

I don't know what the answer is....but I'm working on it. :)

You are getting very close to the answer Superlib. If you keep thinking like this you will arrive at the same conclusion I have I suspect, but if you come up with an even better answer than mine, more power to you.

Reading this lady's words is one of the things that got me started on the popular culture concept.

"I can find you many, many photos like this," she said. "Many kids imitate adults and wear toy masks and guns, especially during marches. It's not strange at all". She added that she had seen children as young as the one in the photograph wearing similar costumes: "In our society it happens a lot. It's a kind of phenomenon."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BabySuicideBomber#.22BabySuicideBomber.22_photo

I can't say if the Muslim clerics are even trying to stop it, but am sure they would be about as successful as Christian priests and other Christian groups stopping the popularity of gangsta rap and other music with questionable lyrics. The clerics have more to gain in some ways by just going along with it. To do otherwise would just diminish their influence, just as the influence of the church has waned in the west. Some people make the clerics out to be all powerful in how the people conceptualize Islam. They are not. They have to fight for control against people like bin Laden, just like the Christian church has to fight Hollywood and the music industry.
sailwind at 08:52 AM JST - 18th December

And you have no explanation for why terrorism on random innocents has only been a Muslim thing for 30 odd years

30 odd years ago a Islamic suicide bomber succeeded in blowing up the Marine barracks in Lebanon under Reagan. Forcing our withdrawal from that country and plunging the country into a civil war, which resulted in Hezballah being the de-facto rulers (still to this day) of the southern portion of that country.

It's been a Muslim thing since then because the reality that was discovered then was this.......And it's simple.

Terrorism WORKED to achieve their goals.

That just the way it is and why we are still dealing with this scurge on Humanity. Deny them the political goal no matter how many bodies they stack up, expose their lies that they are doing it in the name of Islam.

Show that they are doing it only to gain power for their twisted ideals, show them for the petty human beings that they really are. All of us in the West and all moderate muslim voices need to unify behind that.

Then we will make real progress in defeating this scourge.
likeitis at 08:56 AM JST - 18th December

Last I checked, Osama Bin Laden isn't a poor man. Neither are the leaders of Hamas, nor the Syrian or Iranian governments. Behind most terrorists acts are a well financed, very privileged group of men who choose the downtrodden to kill innocents on their behalf. They choose the downtrodden because they're easier to manipulate, but those who run the show aren't.

Terrorist leaders and financiers are whole different demographic than the foot soldiers. I am sure Yangyong was talking about the foot soldiers. Leaders of anything being from a more privileged backround are a dime a dozen. What is more, the leaders' patriotism and piety are always the most suspect of all of them for anyone who cares to scratch the surface.
SuperLib at 09:30 AM JST - 18th December

likeitis I'm going to have to disagree with you. Yangyong said:

Terrorists aren't terrorists because of anything other than being in a situation that pushes them to this point, this reaction to their position.

He followed it up with this:

A person becomes a 'terrorist' for a reason and with these people it has nothing to do with the Prophet Muhammed but with their and their peoples position in the world, namely their economic one.

He's talking about what creates terrorism overall and isn't making a distinction between those who lead terrorists and those who actually carry out the acts.
likeitis at 09:30 AM JST - 18th December

Terrorism WORKED to achieve their goals.

Exactly. The Islam link is a fable generated by those with goals. Sadly, a great many people insist on believing it.

Show that they are doing it only to gain power for their twisted ideals, show them for the petty human beings that they really are. All of us in the West and all moderate muslim voices need to unify behind that.

Then we will make real progress in defeating this scourge.

Yes! But its a double-edged sword for our leaders, because so many of them too are only doing what they do for their twisted ideals. They are already reaching too far with hypocrisy as it is. Any such movement at the clear vision you suggest will have to come from the grassroots.
SuperLib at 09:33 AM JST - 18th December

I think removing poverty will go a long way to reducing terrorism. I think people like Hamas and Osama Bin Laden will still exist, but they'll have a smaller pool of people to choose from. And we all know Bin Laden and the leader of Hamas won't be blowing themselves up anytime soon.
WilliB at 12:55 AM JST - 20th December

Doctor jihad. Now listen to chorus of apologists telling us the cause of terrorism is "poverty".
WilliB at 12:59 AM JST - 20th December

" British government analysis of dozens of previous terror cases has shown there are no simple explanations for who becomes a terrorist. "

The pure idiocy of this statement demonstrates why the West is losing against the jihadists.
Ah_so at 05:48 AM JST - 22nd December

I think removing poverty will go a long way to reducing terrorism.

Look at the nationalities of the 9/11 terrorists. Nearly all Saudis.
likeitis at 03:49 PM JST - 22nd December

Look at the nationalities of the 9/11 terrorists. Nearly all Saudis.

That was a far cry from run-of-the-mill terrorism though. 9/11 was a unique event.

Doctor jihad. Now listen to chorus of apologists telling us the cause of terrorism is "poverty".

A major factor that sucks the foot soldiers of terrorism into the role is disaffection. They can be disaffected from many things, and poverty is one of them. So is loss of friends and family. I put popular modern culture of the M.E. up there as well.

Misinterpretation of Islam is also a factor. Many a mental deficient might read that as "Islam is THE cause" but that is not what I said and sure is not true.