Europe considers sanctions against U.S. over spying

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  • -3

    some14some

    Asked Monday if the NSA intelligence gathering had been used not only to protect national security but American economic interests as well, White House spokesman Jay Carney said: “We do not use our intelligence capabilities for that purpose. We use it for security purposes.”

    why? perhaps, lost interest in money-making :)

  • -16

    Justin Everett

    you might be spying on us so we are going to help terrorists

  • 0

    sfjp330

    Presidents don't know every single thing that goes on in their administrations. It would be impossible, and since the phone bugging started almost as soon as Bush seems to have taken office, the people who work for the NSA might not have felt like it deserved his attention. Or perhaps those doing the spying are people hired during the Bush years who are not political appointees but were hired by the Bush administration by way of a ton of political questions and motives. If you think some of the Bush hires are acting in direct contrast to the wishes of this administration, you'd be right, but don't expect them to tell anyone about it.

  • 6

    wanderlust

    Odd that there is nothing said about their partner the UK, where the NSA has its biggest out-station, and where probably most of the actual technical work is done! The spooks at Cheltenham must be very happy with the lack of attention in their direction.

  • -1

    ControlFreak

    Just suspending SWIFT would be too weak of a response. Send the diplomats home.

  • 2

    kwatt

    It is understandable that why they hate America spying on everybody even if good trustworthy friends.

  • 7

    Strangerland

    you might be spying on us so we are going to help terrorists

    This is just another example of the American use of the word terrorist as an emotional trigger, in the expectation that people will do things against their personal interests order to defeat the terrorists.

    Let's be clear, terrorism is a middle-eastern problem. Terrorism is almost non-existent in the west. But the Americans freaked out so much after 9-11 that they expect the rest of the world should be meeting their panic levels, and give up their ow rights just like the Americans did.

    Sorry Americans, but your paranoia isn't a good enough reason for the rest of the world to accept being spied on by you.

    You have to be convicted of a crime first in order to be arrested.

    Um, what country do you live in? That's not true in any country I've heard of.

  • -3

    HonestDictator

    Let's be clear, terrorism is a middle-eastern problem. Terrorism is almost non-existent in the west.

    Just you keep believing that. That way when more bombings or random killings happen you can just say it was lone nutjobs. Its not so much paranoia when the terrorist groups actually announce how much the western nations should be destroy for one reason or another because they're run by non-Islamic heathens and need to be brought under the wonderful submission of Islam.

    I'm not advocating for our allies to be happy about being spied on, but the US just got caught is all. And while you'd love to believe allies don't spy on their allies, its quite true that every nation does for even the slightest diplomatic advantage. The ones that are good at it don't get caught.

  • 1

    Deplore

    Presidents don't know every single thing that goes on in their administrations. It would be impossible, and since the phone bugging started almost as soon as Bush seems to have taken office, the people who work for the NSA might not have felt like it deserved his attention. Or perhaps those doing the spying are people hired during the Bush years who are not political appointees but were hired by the Bush administration by way of a ton of political questions and motives. If you think some of the Bush hires are acting in direct contrast to the wishes of this administration, you'd be right, but don't expect them to tell anyone about it.

    A leader bares responsible for failures in two ways. If they know about it, than they obviously bare responsibility. And if they didn't know about, then they're incompetent and consequently bare responsibility. You can't shift blame to Bush for this.

  • -4

    bass4funk

    @stranger

    This is just another example of the American use of the word terrorist as an emotional trigger, in the expectation that people will do things against their personal interests order to defeat the terrorists.

    Let's be clear, terrorism is a middle-eastern problem. Terrorism is almost non-existent in the west.

    Oh, really? So we don't have domestic terrorism? And you base this on.....

    But the Americans freaked out so much after 9-11 that they expect the rest of the world should be meeting their panic levels, and give up their ow rights just like the Americans did.

    Hmmm, so over 3000 people were brutally murdered, people of all ethnic groups, religions and countries watching the planes hitting the towers, massive fires, people jumping from the buildings to their deaths calling it freaking out is quite an understatement, one would think. Had that happen on your soil, of if you had lost someone on that day, I really doubt you would make these statements.

    Sorry Americans, but your paranoia isn't a good enough reason for the rest of the world to accept being spied on by you.

    So NOW we are calling it paranoia? Right back at you. I think, all this so called spying on You Europeans, something which happens all the day, all the time, involving all nations, regardless of the levels of technology, whether America has more or the Germans have less is irrelevant, WE ALL DO IT!

  • 1

    Strangerland

    Just you keep believing that.

    Sure, I have little problems with believing the truth. It would appear that you are the ones with those issues.

    How many people have died in the west over the past year as a result of terrorist activities? Three in Boston. Maybe a few more here and there. Now go look at how many terrorist activities have occurred in that time period in the Middle East, and how many have died. Thousands.

    The Americans have freaked out, panicked, and are now bugging the world all because they have emotionalized the word terrorism to the point that they are willing to give up almost any rights to fight an idea. Because that's what terrorism is, it's an idea. It's not concrete, and there is no United Organization of Terrorism. It can never be defeated, because all it takes is for some new person to pick up the cause, whatever they have decided it to be. The Americans have disrupted the entire planet, given up their own personal freedoms, and are now spying on sovereign leaders and citizens all in an attempt to try to make themselves feel more secure against something they can never beat. It's like the communist hunt or the witch burnings, but on a global scale.

  • -3

    Yogizuna

    "It's like the communist hunt or the witch burnings, but on a global scale."

    Sure, and the terrorists are the "witches", and they truly deserve what they get.

  • -2

    Strangerland

    so over 3000 people were brutally murdered, people of all ethnic groups, religions and countries

    The Americans have murdered more than that many of their own, in-country, with guns, this year. If the issue was the number of deaths, or the issue was that Americans were killed, then they would deal with this, and until they don't, then any comments on '3000 people died on 9-11' are meaningless.

    calling it freaking out is quite an understatement, one would think. Had that happen on your soil, of if you had lost someone on that day, I really doubt you would make these statements.

    My cousin was in tower two. I lost someone I grew up with. And yet, I'm not freaking out the way the Americans do - as I haven't been subject to their propaganda.

    So NOW we are calling it paranoia? Right back at you. I think, all this so called spying on You Europeans, something which happens all the day, all the time, involving all nations, regardless of the levels of technology, whether America has more or the Germans have less is irrelevant, WE ALL DO IT!

    I'm not European. And the 'well everyone else is doing it too' was discredited to me as a child with the following logic: "If someone jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?'

    If everyone was smoking crack around you, would you do it too?

    • Moderator

      Stay on topic please.

  • -5

    25psot

    US could look better if they announced destruction of all documents and data connected to NSA spying scandal and promise they won't do it again.

  • -1

    Strangerland

    Sure, and the terrorists are the "witches", and they truly deserve what they get.

    Unfortunately, with the American paranoia, they have no problem with burning anyone else as long as they also get the witches.

    The Americans are just digging themselves further and further into the hole of disrespect amongst the world. In the short-term scale, this won't matter. But consider that people like me considered the US to be the goal, the ideal place to live, before 9-11, and the fact that you couldn't pay me to live in that screwed up country now. And consider that billions of people around the world are coming to feel that way with every new piece of American paranoia that is released. And try telling me it won't affect the US over the coming decades.

    As always America is writing checks, and isn't going to like it when it comes time to pay. You think the shutdown and debt ceiling are problems? Just wait until the world doesn't trust you, and your credit rating tanks, and see how much goodwill there is towards the US in world.

    Empires collapse. Ask the Brits and the Romans. America isn't far away, but it's not the terrorists directly that will be responsible for Americas downfall, it will be the Americans themselves, by alienating the rest of the world.

  • -3

    bass4funk

    The Americans have freaked out, panicked, and are now bugging the world all because they have emotionalized the word terrorism to the point that they are willing to give up almost any rights to fight an idea. Because that's what terrorism is, it's an idea. It's not concrete, and there is no United Organization of Terrorism. It can never be defeated, because all it takes is for some new person to pick up the cause, whatever they have decided it to be. The Americans have disrupted the entire planet, given up their own personal freedoms, and are now spying on sovereign leaders and citizens all in an attempt to try to make themselves feel more secure against something they can never beat. It's like the communist hunt or the witch burnings, but on a global scale.

    So basically, you are saying Europe doesn't have a problem with Islam, UK, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, France and Denmark in particular. I can post article after article where Islamophobia is rampant. Why do you think the Far Right are slowly gaining support? Most of them when asked oppose the Islamization of their countries, which has NOT happened yet in the US, but it can. So you are saying Europeans aren't paranoid??? We disrupted the plant? How about telling many of these European leaders when they call us and ask us for advcie as to how to deal with terrorism! It's a global issue, NOT only an American issue. Radical Islam is slowly enveloping Europe, hasn't reached our shores, but if Americans adopt the same lazy attitude towards radical Islam. Then for sure, we'll have the exact same problems that are plaguing Europe. Maybe, we should tell Europeans NOT to bother us. And yet, typical US fashion, we ALWAYS DO! And just because Europeans take that attitude, we can't beat them so just leave it alone, doesn't mean you have to throw in the towel. The US would also never give up. Once you lose the battle, you lose the war. We're not like that and add to that, if the Europeans think we are panicky or over-hyping the war on terror, ask Russia or China for help....see how much advice Putin will give ya'll without asking for anything in return....Oh, they have they own problems with the Caucuses. Hey! Try again!

    The Americans have murdered more than that many of their own, in-country, with guns, this year. If the issue was the number of deaths, or the issue was that Americans were killed, then they would deal with this, and until they don't, then any comments on '3000 people died on 9-11' are meaningless.

    So you are saying it's justifiable, therefore, it really doesn't matter. I see. Ladies and gentlemen, this is why liberals and their thought process are a disease to our society.

    My cousin was in tower two. I lost someone I grew up with. And yet, I'm not freaking out the way the Americans do - as I haven't been subject to their propaganda.

    Sorry for your loss. That is very sad indeed. But everyone grieves in different ways, however, for most people, MOST, have a deep wound and pain that can never be healed and do want the country to stand up to islamic radicalism, I tend to agree. If that means turning over ever rock to get these killers, then I support it 110% Has nothing to do with being paranoid, but everything to do with making sure Americans don't lose their lives needlessly!

    I'm not European. And the 'well everyone else is doing it too' was discredited to me as a child with the following logic: "If someone jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?'

    Thank you, you just made my point for me, there is NO need to ask anyone if we are allowed to protect ourselves or not. We just do and if the rest of the world doesn't like it, the can take a hike. And I was taught, you always try to be peaceful and respect others and avoid confrontation, but if someone attacks you, tries to hurt you or your family, you have the right to protect them and yourself. And to add to that, the same Europeans, even many in the ME that talk.... about the US, those same people always come back, ALWAYS asking for something. This so called anger, I take with a grain of salt.

    If everyone was smoking crack around you, would you do it too?

    We're not talking about crack, not a good comparison, sorry.

  • -1

    Jean Val-Jean

    " As always America is writing checks, and isn't going to like it when it comes time to pay. You think the shutdown and debt ceiling are problems? Just wait until the world doesn't trust you, and your credit rating tanks, and see how much goodwill there is towards the US in world. Empires collapse. Ask the Brits and the Romans. America isn't far away, but it's not the terrorists directly that will be responsible for Americas downfall, it will be the Americans themselves, by alienating the rest of the world."

    Now, THAT's the truth!

  • -4

    bass4funk

    @jean

    " As always America is writing checks, and isn't going to like it when it comes time to pay. You think the shutdown and debt ceiling are problems? Just wait until the world doesn't trust you, and your credit rating tanks, and see how much goodwill there is towards the US in world.

    I was with you up until that point, but then the whole empire thing...well....

  • -3

    lucabrasi

    We just do and if the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can take a hike.

    US foreign policy in a nutshell.

  • -7

    bass4funk

    US foreign policy in a nutshell.

    Worked out so far just fine.

  • -4

    Strangerland

    So basically, you are saying Europe doesn't have a problem with Islam, UK, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, France and Denmark in particular. No, I didn't mention any of those countries. And you keep ignoring the fact that almost no one has died of terrorism in the west this year, or in most years. Thousands die in the middle-east of terrorism every year.

    So you are saying it's justifiable You like to keep putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that.

    therefore, it really doesn't matter. I see. Ladies and gentlemen, this is why liberals and their thought process are a disease to our society. Terrorism doesn't matter? I didn't say that either. Of course terrorism sucks and matters. Ideally, no one should ever have to die of it again.

    But looking at it realistically, it's nearly a non-issue in the west, yet the Americans have freaked out about it, and are screwing up the world as a result.

    Sorry for your loss. That is very sad indeed. But everyone grieves in different ways, however, for most people, MOST, have a deep wound and pain that can never be healed and do want the country to stand up to islamic radicalism, I tend to agree.

    Standing up to radical islam is good. Screwing up the entire planet is bad. The Americans are treating everyone as if they are a terrorist, in the hopes of finding the very few that actually are.

    If that means turning over ever rock to get these killers, then I support it 110% Has nothing to do with being paranoid, but everything to do with making sure Americans don't lose their lives needlessly! Then you should focus your efforts where Americans are actually dying - guns. They are not dying of terrorism.

    Thank you, you just made my point for me, there is NO need to ask anyone if we are allowed to protect ourselves or not. We just do and if the rest of the world doesn't like it, the can take a hike. And this is the line of thinking that:

    A) Brings not only terrorists, but regular people to hate America B) Will be the eventual downfall of the US. You don't live in a bubble, and you don't only trade with yourselves. And the more you alienate the rest of the world, the more you will realize that if we take a hike, you guys are more screwed than we are, as we can still trade amongst each other.

    And I was taught, you always try to be peaceful and respect others and avoid confrontation, but if someone attacks you, tries to hurt you or your family, you have the right to protect them and yourself.

    But if you go around burning down your neighbors houses in hopes of finding the person who attacked you, you are only doing yourself a disservice as your neighbors will stop caring about the person who attacked you, and care about the person who attacked them.

    We're not talking about crack, not a good comparison, sorry.

    No, we're talking about justifying doing something wrong, because everyone else is doing it as well. So my comparison was spot on.

    Worked out so far just fine. Yea, you know, other than being attacked by terrorists in airplanes, and being hated by the rest of the world.

  • 0

    Fox Cloud Lelean

    Suspending SWIFT is a good way to start, but perhaps something a little stronger is needed. America needs to learn that spying on its own allies is unacceptable and inexcusable. Fighting against terrorists? I doubt it. Most of the terrorist attacks occur in the Middle East and Africa. The last terrorist attack I am aware of (and to be honest, I'm not all that aware on everything) occuring in Britain or the US was the 7/7 bombings and the failed 21/7 bombings back in 2005. I've spoken to colleagues about this. The first thing they say in response to that is "What about the murder of Lee Rigby earlier this year?" That was religious extremism, somewhat different to terrorism. There is a fine line, but a line nonetheless. Terrorism generally denotes bombings, suicide or otherwise, in public areas, causing people to be terrifies. Religious Extremism is any act of violence or aggression with religious motive. 7/7 bombings = terrorism. Some nutjob hacking an innocent man to death in the name of their God = Religious Extremism. The latter is somewhat more common than terrorism, and yet the US does nothing about that. There isn't really anything that can be done. As long as religions exist, extremism will as well. But back to the point of the spying (before I wander off on a tangent). The NSA has no justification to spy on Europe. North Korea, China, Russia, Iran, countries that actually pose a threat to international stability, sure, but Spain or France? No. There's no justification for that. America needs to be punished for that. They have commited a crime. Crimes must be punished. Unless they somehow provide concrete evidence to prove their spying was justifiable (which they won't), America should have a blanket ban on all espionage activities against all allies.

  • -12

    Wolfpack

    So now America's allies are seeking out ways to thwart Obama's anti-terror policies? It's as if we are in an alternate universe! So essentially Obama has caused the Europeans the moral delemma of having to choose between the US and Al quaeda. If there was any doubt that Obama is the worst president in American history there can no longer any now.

  • -7

    MarkG

    No doubt Wolfpack. Was incredibly shocked when he was reelected.

  • 1

    FizzBit

    Worked out so far just fine.

    Blowback?? Not a very intelligent comment.

  • -1

    Strangerland

    So now America's allies are seeking out ways to thwart Obama's anti-terror policies?

    Um no, they are seeking to not have their privacy and sovereignty infringed upon because America is having a hissy-fit because someone dared attack them.

  • 3

    Bgood41

    Most capable nations have been using secret services, intelligent gatherings, and spying all the time. America has an edge and the E.U. does not like it at all, especially when the phone tapping getting personal. This tool is very useful and can be abused as well. Obama receive the intelligent briefs as protocol for the white house and the idea that he does not know anything about this? Come on, the buck stops here and he should take responsibility for his administration. If E.U. stops aiding U.S.A. in fighting terrorism, soon or later they will bear their regrettable fruits. What happen to the promise by Obama that all nations will see a new light from America? The reality starts to sink in, isn't it?

  • 2

    Psyops

    I dont know why people panic their email or phone call may have been part of the 60 million things that got collected. This is like panning for gold, all the useless crap gets washed away and not payed attention to while looking for that one tiny little terrorist gold flake. Sorry friends, but all of you like me are meaningless to the US. Your info is safe.

  • 0

    Strangerland

    So what if we aren't saying anything that is worth listening to. If you think that we should give up our inalienable right to privacy just because a country we are not citizens of got attacked, you are kidding yourself. If the Americans are willing to sacrifice their own freedom for an artificial sense of security, that's their right, stupid as the rest of us may think. But when those same Americans think that sovereigns should also willingly give up their freedoms so that the Americans can have this artificial sense of security, that's when the world starts to mistrust and disrespect their supposed allies.

  • 2

    noriyosan73

    "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." Europe can't afford the loss of US income just as Israel cannot afford to lose it the income. Just pretend to be upset, and it will all go away. Japan knows it, and goes about its business. It is a fair trade.

  • 1

    Strangerland

    Ahh but neither can the Americans live without the income from its allies. It's a two-way street.

  • -5

    bass4funk

    @strangerland

    But looking at it realistically, it's nearly a non-issue in the west, yet the Americans have freaked out about it, and are screwing up the world as a result.

    I'm terribly sorry, but don't shift the problems of your own making on us. It's like, you got a hernia and you blame it on me, while I was reading a book. We have a right to freak out, just like you're freaking out now about us freaking out. Everyone is responsible for themselves, but it's always the US that has to bail everyone out. Personally, I wish they wouldn't, but that's not the nation we are. Also, on 9/11 people died as a result of terrorism and in Iraq, Afghanistan, many soldiers were killed because of these radical Islamists and what were they doing? Fighting in the name if Jihad, I rest my case. Also, I really don't think you understand how the spying agency works. Even with many of our not so close friends, example Russia, we constantly work together behind the scenes. Trust me, there is a lot going on in politics that you don't get to see on TV or behind closed doors.

    Standing up to radical islam is good. Screwing up the entire planet is bad. The Americans are treating everyone as if they are a terrorist, in the hopes of finding the very few that actually are.

    When you say, EVERYONE, you bad people, not some Swedish tourist wanted to buy a slice of NY pizza. I highly doubt it. Few? So now you work for Homeland? You know this based on.....

    A) Brings not only terrorists, but regular people to hate America B) Will be the eventual downfall of the US. You don't live in a bubble, and you don't only trade with yourselves. And the more you alienate the rest of the world, the more you will realize that if we take a hike, you guys are more screwed than we are, as we can still trade amongst each other.

    America was hated from the very beginning. Nothing new. And if America is SO hated, why Oh, why are we getting so many immigrants? I remember when LA minority population was at 9% when I was a kid in the 70's now it's over 30% and growing and NOT slowing down. Actually, NO. As as the economy is, I would say more the other way around.

    http://business.time.com/2011/08/10/america-vs-europe-which-is-the-bigger-threat-to-the-world-economy/

    But if you go around burning down your neighbors houses in hopes of finding the person who attacked you, you are only doing yourself a disservice as your neighbors will stop caring about the person who attacked you, and care about the person who attacked them.

    As if they cared in the first place. All the more reason as to why I support for the most part spying programs, just because of what you just mentioned and this in return goes the opposite way as well. Give and take.

    No, we're talking about justifying doing something wrong, because everyone else is doing it as well. So my comparison was spot on.

    In who's eyes? Completely subjective. I think you were off, but hey...

    that's when the world starts to mistrust and disrespect their supposed allies.

    Personally, as with the politicians, I think they all suck. Everyone in the end stabs each other in the back for their own personal selfish goals, they all do in some way or another.

    Um no, they are seeking to not have their privacy and sovereignty infringed upon because America is having a hissy-fit because someone dared attack them.

    You think it's a sissy fit. So you said, you are not European, so where are you from? You seem like it's no big deal, thousands of people lose their lives, but it is more important that we respect the terrorists and Europeans rights and how they think and feel in order to appease them? God give me strength.... I just hope nothing bad happens to your country, because once that happens, you wouldn't be talking like this, I'm sure of it.

    Ahh but neither can the Americans live without the income from its allies. It's a two-way street.

    There you go and that's why we are inseparable, for better or worse. Deal with it. We do.

  • 1

    Jean Val-Jean

    @bass, please note the quotation marks. I quoted another poster's comment which has since gone down the memory hole.

    I know the word empire stings, but that's what it is.

    Now, high-level intel agency officials are stating that knowledge of spying on heads of state goes directly to the White House. Maybe it was Michelle who signed off on it, and not the guy who has numerous times stated "The buck stops wimme."

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    bass4funk: "I'm terribly sorry, but don't shift the problems of your own making on us. It's like, you got a hernia and you blame it on me, while I was reading a book."

    Ummm... no. It's more like someone got a hernia and you PRETENDED to read a book while you knew about the hernia and WROTE it in a book (and did nothing to help).

    The US is the new USSR. Go and be angry at China for its lack of freedoms, censorship, and spying, then come back to us and deny the US is not EXACTLY the same.

  • -1

    SuperLib

    I liked Obama's response. If Europe wants to treat us like we're stupid by saying they don't spy on friends then I have no problem with Obama giving them an equally loaded pile of schit in return.

  • -4

    Serrano

    Yes we scan! Deal with it.

  • -7

    bass4funk

    @smith

    The US is the new USSR. Go and be angry at China for its lack of freedoms, censorship, and spying, then come back to us and deny the US is not EXACTLY the same.

    Dunno, what do you mean. I never had a problem with freedom, censorship, already went over the spying thing, but I will say, the way the US is going and that Obama, the socialist wants to take all my money, when I already pay my fair share and then some, wanting to give it to people that don't care to work (yes, many of them don't) so it seems more like the mold of Europe. This coming from the USS of Europe, where Entitlements, income redistribution is so normal, they are all almost bankrupt. You get punished for being successful. This is why American liberals need to move over there, since they like taking money, robbing Paul to give to Peter. Nice.

    @Jean

    I know the word empire stings, but that's what it is.

    Now, high-level intel agency officials are stating that knowledge of spying on heads of state goes directly to the White House. Maybe it was Michelle who signed off on it, and not the guy who has numerous times stated "The buck stops wimme."

    Oh, please bro, lol I think you are totally misinterpreting the word: Empire But I DO think that Obama wants to turn the US into an entitlement empire of highest magnitude.

  • 3

    CraigHicks

    Saying "everybody does it" doesn't really capture the reality of power: The US intelligence budget must dwarf the intelligence budgets of all its allies put together, just as the defense budget does. So in intelligence the US overwhelms each of its allies individually. (And for that matter overwhelms them collectively also, but collectively has no meaning because the allies do not coordinate their respective intelligence programs with each other.)

    If "everybody does it" with no rules, the US will always win (except against the big C).

    There is no practical need for the US to win against its allies. There is a need for the US to be viewed as a friend by its allies. It's time to dump pride and do the right thing

  • 1

    homleand

    Let me guess: Tomorrow's headline will be that Europe has reconsidered.

  • 0

    Nadège

    First europeean didn't give money to torrorist to destabilise the government that didn't strade with them as a large economic policy. we have less ennemy. We are good people.

    Second it is clear that using those kind of information is a major strategic advantage in a negociation head of state to head of state. It would be naive to think germany "gave" those information. And even more that Obama ignore it. He is after all an intelligent man who know the method of his country and can connect the dots.

    Then it is naive too to think the united state does not use their large economy and their international firms to influence the internal policies of country that could potencially limitated their economy.

    One day, europe is fine, second day the us market want to destroy euro that just pass before dollars, the third the 2008 crisis is here.

    United State is a major problem in the world, and anyone who believe in something greater than humanity or karma should worry a little. :)

    My point of view.

  • 4

    Thunderbird2

    bass4funk - you scare me. If there were people with your reasoning in power there would be no freedom for anyone outside America.

  • 1

    7solace9

    Good, the US needs to get spanked or the corruption will continue. And the later would not go well for the world since the US is still the lone superpower and would make for one big bully. It would be better if Americans were keeping their own government in check, but apparently they are too sedated by their wealth and insulated by their military to care much and prefer to buy Snowden, the whistle blower, as the fall guy for their own government's oversteps. Please, spank them EU.

  • 0

    jeff198527

    It seems that Europe will force the US government to eject its head from its ass.

  • 3

    Tamarama

    Bass4funk

    Everyone is responsible for themselves, but it's always the US that has to bail everyone out. Personally, I wish they wouldn't, but that's not the nation we are. Also, on 9/11 people died as a result of terrorism and in Iraq, Afghanistan, many soldiers were killed because of these radical Islamists and what were they doing? Fighting in the name if Jihad, I rest my case.

    Unfortunately for you, you have gobbled the big glittery Stars and Stripes propaganda lure - hook, line and sinker, and it clouds your view. I imagine it would be very hard for you to try to look honestly at pre-9/11 American activity throughout the Middle East, going back decades, but it's really what you need to do to try to make sense of why that attack took place in New York. America has a long and shameful history of meddling in the politics and conflicts of the ME, and none of it has to do with 'bailing anyone out'. And that has nothing to do with trying to embarrass you, it's just that you need to open your eyes to see the truth.

    America was hated from the very beginning.

    Complete sensationalist siege mentality rubbish. America is much loved in many parts of the world, and still stands for incredible things. But there is a disconnect between this, and the way the US conducts itself in certain places in the world. Aspects of American foreign policy and action that are shameful, and have resulted in death, suffering and misery in certain parts of the world. THOSE people aren't stupid, they know very well why things happen the way they do in their region. In the case of the Middle East, this is particularly true, and the suffering, death, injustice combined with radical fundamentalism has resulted in groups mobilising and arming themselves to fight back. It's not hard to see how and why. It's got nothing to do with a blind and random hatred of the US - nothing at all.

    This spying scandal is incredible in my opinion. Highly embarrassing and quite bizarre. More fuel for the fire, I'm afraid.

  • -1

    The Chronic

    Listen..the USA can do whatever the Freak they want and all those countries saying this or that againast America are just blowing steam,but won't make any move or break any agreements they have with the USA. Why? Cause if the shit ever hits the fan in any of these countries, they will want the good ole USA to come to their rescue as it has down many times in the past.

  • 2

    SuperLib

    Tamarama: In the case of the Middle East, this is particularly true, and the suffering, death, injustice combined with radical fundamentalism has resulted in groups mobilising and arming themselves to fight back.

    A vast majority of terrorist attacks in the Middle East are Muslims killing other Muslims. Work that into your theory and get back to us.

    CraigHicks: If "everybody does it" with no rules, the US will always win (except against the big C).

    If you can come up with a workable solution other than only banning the US from doing it, then I'm all ears. But it would seem that that's the direction some are going without realizing it. And part of the reason why other countries work closely with the US is because of the intelligence that we share. They know what we can do and they are happy to use the information when it benefits themselves.

  • -1

    Serrano

    "The US needs to get spanked"

    Spank us then already! Sheesh!

  • -5

    globalwatcher

    Europe considers sanctions against U.S. over spying

    This is thanks we get from Germany. I was stationed in Germany 30 years ago. .if Sanction is imposed against US, US will get out from the NATO. Germany wants to make a friend with Russia. Germany has been secretly exporting chemical weapons to Syria for years. They have been violating International laws.

    America is self sufficient for oil now, and we will stop buying from Europe.. I see how it work already. It is okay with US.

  • 1

    JoeBigs

    Europe considers sanctions against U.S. over spying

    Pardon me while I laugh......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Pig will have wings before that will happen or will have any teeth........

    Silly waste of time......LOL

  • 0

    davestrousers

    You've not read the article and misunderstood what sanctions means in this context. Jokes on you.

  • -1

    globalwatcher

    davestrousersOct. 29, 2013 - 11:11PM JST

    You've not read the article and misunderstood what sanctions means in this context. Jokes on you.

    Has not mentioned here, but eventually this will lead to what I have mentioned. Read beyond what's been said. LOL

  • 0

    Milton Bell

    Edward Snowden has created a sense of urgency among European governments that, at the very least, they need to be seen in the eyes of their citizens to be doing something to stop the spying.

    When European versions of Edward Snowden pop-up and divulge what their countries' spy agencies are doing, it'll be European countries turn in the barrel.

  • 0

    gelendestrasse

    The cartoon in this week's "Economist" pretty much sums it up. Not that the Europeans (or anybody else) aren't doing the same thing. They just haven't been caught. But does that make it right?

    it'll be European countries "turn in the barrel"

    I'd be careful with that one. I once had to explain the saying to a meeting of Japanese who couldn't understand the meaning....the translators were blushing but the salarymen thought it was pretty funny.

  • 1

    CraigHicks

    @Superlib

    If you can come up with a workable solution other than only banning the US from doing it, then I'm all ears. But it would seem that that's the direction some are going without realizing it. And part of the reason why other countries work closely with the US is because of the intelligence that we share. They know what we can do and they are happy to use the information when it benefits themselves.

    I see little hope of persuading your mindset of anything. Unfortunately, US telecommunications and internet companies will suffer, and actual practical US intelligence sharing (give and take) will also suffer, because of this mindset which actually seems to represent quite well the mindset of US intelligence. The worst potential for economic damage is in developing countries such a Brazil (B as in BRICS). Do you really think Brazil is picking up phone calls of the US president, and that the US must answer that threat in kind to stay even?

    I only saw the first Snowden NSA slides which came out, but what surprised me most was the boastful tone and even exaggeration about what was being done. That's called SELF INDULGENCE, and the more recent news such as spying on Merkel confirms an attitude of self indulgence. The ONLY way to exorcise self indulgence is with systematic oversight and control.

    In the meantime, to stem the damage, the State department need to engage with the worried countries, apologize and try to undo the economic damage.

  • -1

    optikool

    What an interesting idea.... lets slap sanctions on US trade and in turn US does the same and see who blinks first. Germany might fair well for a while, until we stop buying their cars. With sanctions in place how will this affect Russia, the country harboring the anarchists snowmen. Will Russia receive less oil revenue when people who have lost their jobs over the sanctions use less resources. Guess that would be one good trade off. We all know the US has better spying technology then the rest of the world, even Europe with there million cameras trained on everybody. If the cooperation to fend off terrorism stops because the US no longer shares information with the rest of the world and we tell the rest of the world good luck to you, I wonder who will get hit first? Which country is an easier target to reach? And hitting an Embassy is no comparison hitting a railway system or financial district. If these countries who are publicly "outraged" had the same advanced spying techniques, would they in fact not use this technology to the fullest of their ability or would they pretend to be the good samaritan?

    We know about these facts because some pretender infiltrated the US government and stole it's secretes and then ran away to the two countries who stood to benefit... as if he was turned, like the cowardly anarchist he is. If another Snowden wannabe appeared from Europe spilling state secrets, I wonder what kind of tune people would be singing then. We all know the people here that don't like the US would still find a way to tie it back to the US. And the person that said the US should be spanked... be careful what you wish for, trying to spank a grown adult is likely to get a fist put through your chest. And people wanting to slap sanctions, well that can be a two way street too, so I guess we can just sit and watch who falls first...

  • -1

    sfjp330

    Increasing number of Europeans can tell you now that they are seeing America more and more as a nation that they should distance themselves from. This spying revelation on allies is now showing increasing distrust among members with the likely goal of destroying the NATO alliance. NATO has been torn in Putin side. Every time Obama goes overseas he must now deal with Snowden’s release of classified documents. Instead of focusing on important issues he must instead apologize or play the denial game publically and get talked down by other foreign leaders. I guess Snowden thinks these countries don’t use spy tactics themselves if so than he is even more gullible than I thought.

  • -1

    Tamarama

    Superlib

    A vast majority of terrorist attacks in the Middle East are Muslims killing other Muslims. Work that into your theory and get back to us.

    Sure. Bass4funk's post was about ''terrorist' attacks on US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan - that's what I was responding to.

    A little more careful reading would have saved you the embarrassment.

  • 0

    Kuya 808

    Back in the early years of the Cold War the United Kingdom and the United States of America entered into a collaborative arraignment regarding the collection and sharing of signal intelligence; the UKUSA Agreement. They would spy on everyone, but not each other, and share the information. This secret club soon expanded to include Australia, New Zealand and Canada and became known as the “5 Eyes”. Over the ensuing years a number of allied nations have signed on as third party members and have actively participated in this intelligence gathering/sharing network. Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Germany, Italy are among the list of third party members.

    Most, if not all of the member nations have laws on the books that prohibit their spy agencies from spying on their own citizens. But…. If the British Government Communications Headquarters (their NSA) wants to get the dirt on some British citizen at home or abroad they just ask the Communications Security Establishment Canada (their NSA) to do it, and it’s all cool. As a third party member, Germany’s Bundesnachrichtendiest (their NSA) can ask for the real NSA to tap the phones of German citizens in circumvention of German law and get whatever they’re looking for. And so on and so on. It’s all part of the agreement and it has been going on for a very long time.

    That’s the reason you don’t hear much from the Brits; they’re in it past their eyeballs. And all the noise from the Germans is just theater for domestic consumption while in the background it is business as usual.

  • -4

    bass4funk

    @nadege

    First europeean didn't give money to torrorist to destabilise the government that didn't strade with them as a large economic policy. we have less ennemy. We are good people.

    Well, Saddam gave France a very lucrative deal on oil just before the invasion if France would vote NO against military action, this was confidential and the records to that were found in his palace. I could give you other examples. Also, I think MOST Europeans are good, and I also think Americans are good people most of them. The people have nothing to do with the decisions these nutty politicians make.

    One day, europe is fine, second day the us market want to destroy euro that just pass before dollars, the third the 2008 crisis is here.

    Yeah, riiiiiight.

    United State is a major problem in the world, and anyone who believe in something greater than humanity or karma should worry a little.

    I just love how Europeans don't want to take responsibility for their own actions on anything, a shift in the wind, that damn US of A! Has nothing to do with Karma.

    @thunder

    you scare me. If there were people with your reasoning in power there would be no freedom for anyone outside America.

    If I were in charge, I would get rid of most looney liberals for sure followed by firing everyone in congress and put real people in charge NOT politicians. And besides, you already have freedom! What else do you want? You're living in the greatest country, what gives?

    @tamarama

    Unfortunately for you, you have gobbled the big glittery Stars and Stripes propaganda lure - hook, line and sinker, and it clouds your view.

    Ahh, NO, it really doesn't.

    I imagine it would be very hard for you to try to look honestly at pre-9/11 American activity throughout the Middle East, going back decades, but it's really what you need to do to try to make sense of why that attack took place in New York.

    I am full aware, but this has been going on a long time. Just because of our way of life, just because we support Israel and because Abdullah Yusuf Azzam felt that in his opinion the US doesn't see the plight of the the Palestinian people and sides with their greatest enemy to allow them to keep the land....yeah, I know, so that's a valid reason for the hate, the freedoms we have, NOT being Muslim, therefore, we are infidels, NOT fit to live. Please don't start with that BS, if so, then the British being former colonists should bear most of the brunt.

    America has a long and shameful history of meddling in the politics and conflicts of the ME, and none of it has to do with 'bailing anyone out'. And that has nothing to do with trying to embarrass you, it's just that you need to open your eyes to see the truth.

    And the ME has a long history of torturing, murdering, killing, slaughtering anyone that doesn't believe their PO word view. My eyes are open, I never said, the US is innocent of ANY social wrongdoing, but for the most part, The US is a noble, not to mention, the MOST giving nation.

    Complete sensationalist siege mentality rubbish. America is much loved in many parts of the world, and still stands for incredible things. But there is a disconnect between this, and the way the US conducts itself in certain places in the world. Aspects of American foreign policy and action that are shameful, and have resulted in death, suffering and misery in certain parts of the world. THOSE people aren't stupid, they know very well why things happen the way they do in their region. In the case of the Middle East, this is particularly true, and the suffering, death, injustice combined with radical fundamentalism has resulted in groups mobilising and arming themselves to fight back. It's not hard to see how and why. It's got nothing to do with a blind and random hatred of the US - nothing at all.

    I don't think that there is a disconnect. When you talk about death, injustice etc. The US didn't just decide to go in, for the sake of it. That idea is preposterous. The entire radicalization of Islam and them wanting to create a caliph can ONLY be done if the US (the great Satan as they often refer it to) is destroyed. And if you think that's bogus, then you are not dealing with reality.

    This spying scandal is incredible in my opinion. Highly embarrassing and quite bizarre. More fuel for the fire, I'm afraid.

    Again, they all do it. ALL OF THEM! Why are ya'll so shocked? If the US were the only one doing it, I understand., but every country does it.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Tamarama: Sure. Bass4funk's post was about ''terrorist' attacks on US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan - that's what I was responding to.

    Ah, I see. So those terrorists are just people defending themselves. Nice of you to point out the cause of that fraction of a percent of terrorism (while mentioning New York).

    CraigHicks: Do you really think Brazil is picking up phone calls of the US president, and that the US must answer that threat in kind to stay even?

    Brazil is doing their own spying. They'll be fine.

  • 0

    Serrano

    "Increasing number of Europeans can tell you now that they are seeing America more and more as a nation that they should distance themselves from."

    And they should cozy up to Russia and China, lol.

  • -2

    Olegek

    Serrano

    And they should cozy up to Russia and China, lol.

    They are free people after all

    Or may be you have another opinion ?

  • -1

    Serrano

    Olegek

    Heck no, I'm all for people being free to make mistakes and see the error of their thinking.

  • 2

    notasap

    The discord of the Russian counter-espionage operation that used the patsy Snowden has worked very well for Putin and the new KGB. But the more we learn about these US spying programs the more we see it was not just the US but rather it was the US and many other nations intelligence programs all working together to collect data on everyone, even on themselves. So the Canadian intelligence people help spy on Germany, who in turn have helped the US spy on France, Australia intel helps spy on Indonesia and China. I'm sure the Japanese are helping spy on Korea and Korea on Japan. We all spy on each other...this is just the reality. What we are seeing is how spying can be used by various national government who will tap into latent anti-Americanism to help themselves in local politics. But at the end of the day they will keep on spying and the US will keep on spying...it will not stop until we create some Utopian reality, which is not going to happen. So remember when someone ask you to get outraged at spying ask one simple question; why?

  • -1

    noriyosan73

    Get over it Europe, get over it world. Japan spies on the USA, so what? Let it go, move on, and accept the fact that the USA has better spy technology.

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