Europe's crisis hits new pitch on 'deep depression' warning
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14 Comments
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1
MaboDofuIsSpicy
But he has not created any new jobs anyway.
0
globalwatcher
The next 2 weeks and half is very critical. Hope they can come up with positive solutions to save the world.
0
samwatters
I'm not an economist but couldn't we find a way to reset the clock, erase the debt and start over...even if it means inconveniencing the speculators, bankers and other swine who grew fat off of this catastrophe? I mean, are we really seriously going to allow society across the globe to descend into chaos in order to save guard the luxuries of a very small few?
-1
just-a-guy
Very aware after the collapse of the European currency will lead to a social chaos like wars in the euro zone, a huge influx of refugees will swamming to asia, especially China! Germany has no authorities over her members and just sitting and let loose the entire organisation, they have been talking 'political fantacies' but no actions to deal with real!
0
WilliB
just-a-guy:
The precise opposite is the case! The Euro currency is the root cause of the problem, and the more the Eurocrat politicians try to prolong the pain with ever more unfunded wealth transfers from North to South, the worse the situation gets, including social unrest.
The only solution is to break up the Euro and return to sensible national currencies.
0
WilliB
samwatters:
Start over where? Start before the introduction of the Euro? Then all this could be avoided. The "swine" as you call them would not be tempted to make free money by giving unlimited loans to PIIG countries.
Start in 2000 with the introduction of the Euro? Then the exact thing would happen again.
0
TheQuestion
You know it's not just banks and speculators that hold bonds. Most of the debt is actually in the form of government bonds bought by citizens. I own U.S bonds and I give bonds to my niece and nephew for their birthdays, many people use bonds to suppliment their retirement (not the best but they do it anyway). You're not doing anybody any favors by erasing the debt, just screwing a lot of honest people out of their money.
0
WilliB
TheQuestion:
With US bonds you can be sure that they will paid. The only risk that you have is that the US Dollar will lose in value (actually, that is not risk, that is something you can be sure of). But it will always be there.
If you buy Greek bonds, you run the risk that either the Greek government defaults or that they´ll be converted to Drachma. That is why they pay 300% interest currently!
The French lender banks, of course, expect to cash the interest and have Germany guarantee for everything. And the whole scheme is called "saving the Euro". It is absurd.
1
TheQuestion
Just using my bonds as an example. It's all well and good for people to talk about eliminating all debt but people never think about the ramifications or who is really impacted. When you make something free you make it worthless, they just can't wrap their heads around it.
Its like the OWS people asking for college debt forgiveness. If education is free, anybody can get it. If anybody can get it than it isn't worth anything, that’s why a 4 year degree is basically worthless today in the U.S but yet companies still pay more for my bachelors than they do for the master's diploma that my French colleagues have because those diplomas are a dime a dozen while mine is more like a quarter.
Forgive the debt and you basically collapse every market in the industrialized world.
0
samwatters
@WillieB:"Start over where?" I suggest we return to a time when speculators such as George Soros weren't allowed to destroy economies and currencies for profit.
@TheQuestion: "You know it's not just banks and speculators that hold bonds. Most of the debt is actually in the form of government bonds bought by citizens. I own U.S bonds and I give bonds to my niece and nephew for their birthdays, many people use bonds to suppliment their retirement (not the best but they do it anyway)."
I also own bonds. It's a decent investment depending on the exchange rate and a nice way to support one's country.
"You're not doing anybody any favors by erasing the debt, just screwing a lot of honest people out of their money."
Instead of just erasing debt, I think governments should just print more money, pay off debts---especially the ones they enabled---and reset to zero. You and others who own bonds will get your return. Then kick out the speculators I mentioned in an earlier paragraph, muzzle banks who sell NINJA loans and, yes, cut or eliminate funds the PIIGS. This plan will still rankle some serious capitalists who think socialism is bad but then baliouts that resulted from the economic meltdown of November, 2008 suggest that there's a little socialism inside of all of us. Either way, I think it's time governments take a look at the long-term ramifications of how to heal debt. We're currently headed towards a cliff.
0
WilliB
samwatters:
Speculators will always be there. Just like sharks will be there. Speculators can only exploit flaws in the system. And the Euro currency is one gigantic flaw, waiting to be exploited. Blaiming speculators for the internal Euro contradictions is like blaming your head for the headache after drinking too much.
It is a decent investment if you trust the government issuing them. If you buy US bonds, you can be sure that the government will honor them. But you can also be sure that the Dollar they are denominated in will be a lot less worth soon. If you buy Greek bonds issue in Euro and hope for a fat 300% return on them, you are trusting that Germany will continue to pay Greece´s bills. You might be lucky. But you are gambling.... dare I say speculating?
0
samwatters
@WIllieB:"Blaiming speculators for the internal Euro contradictions is like blaming your head for the headache after drinking too much."
Ha! Ha! Ha! Great analogy! Point well taken! But just as sharks are always there, they do get whacked when they bite too much. Let's apply the same principle to speculators and bankers and others in power who act like parasites.
"If you buy Greek bonds issue in Euro and hope for a fat 300% return on them, you are trusting that Germany will continue to pay Greece´s bills. You might be lucky. But you are gambling.... dare I say speculating?"
Another good point. Are these people speculating? No, I think hoping and praying is more accurate!
0
samwatters
@The Question: "When you make something free you make it worthless, they just can't wrap their heads around it.... If education is free, anybody can get it. If anybody can get it than it isn't worth anything, that’s why a 4 year degree is basically worthless today in the U.S...."
Just playing Devil's Advocate but we don't pay for police protection or firefighting services, either. I don't think that the value of education is diminishing because it's free but rather because the quality of a US education has drastically decreased over the last thirty years.
"Forgive the debt and you basically collapse every market in the industrialized world."
I disagree and would like to understand the reasoning of this claim. Of course I think capitalists, especially business owners, like to employ people who have debt because they are easier to control.
0
WilliB
TheQuestion:
Writing off unpayable debt is simply acknowledging reality. Keep bailing out the banks who sit on worthless mountains of derivates and PIIG bonds --- THAT will collapse the industrialized world.
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