Pressure builds on Florida pastor who wants to burn Quran on Sept 11

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  • 0

    Okinawamike

    Assclown - What will it prove?

    Is this a "Brother" of a one and only Jim Jones? Sounds like he should be.

  • 0

    aoto

    what a twat

  • 0

    Jbeezy

    This guys asking for it. Hope he gets it.

  • 0

    bdiego

    Great idea, this will give atheists political cover for making their bible burnings public. Love thy neighbor!

  • 0

    Foggia

    "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" is a message lost on this dude, who pretends to be a minister...

  • 0

    Zenny11

    What other locations are partaking in his "INTERNATIONAL Quran burning day"?

  • 0

    sk4ek

    An utter fool, who betrays the very name of his own organization. Book-burning is anathema to "peace and outreach"...

  • 0

    MrRoadrage

    bdeigo, when have atheists ever had bible burnings?

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    This guy is dangerous, Biblically illiterate, and as Foggia pointed out, is not following a key teachng of the Bible.

  • 0

    namabiru4me

    Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center

    This is a warped way to have World Outreach. And a Dove, symbol of peace.

    His way of thinking just breeds more hatred and bigotry.

  • 0

    utmost11

    although i disagree totally with this dude and with burning the quran, i think he hit one point on the head.

    "Instead of possibly blaming us for what could happen, we put the blame where it belongs—on the people who would do it."

    i do blame him, however, for failing to follow the bible that he claims to read. philippians 2:3-11 shows a much better example to follow. burning the quran won't accomplish much, except to make more people angry. but how muslims respond is also their responsibility.

  • 0

    alladin

    This is why I no longer believe in Christianity anymore. Here you have a pastor preaching the word of God and on the other hand decides to bun the Quran in a protest of 911. Is this the real Christian way? Would Christ Jesus do that himself if he was here in person? I really dont think so. I dont even think he would allow the practice of this at all. All of these Christians are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. If they really want to make a change in this world, they should all get together and have a worldwide prayer meeting for 2 months and pray for peace rather than crating a reason to start up another war.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    This shows how it's actually impossible to be a true Christian and follow the teachings of the Bible.

    This guy is clearly picking the teachings of the Bible and ignoring the bits he doesn't like.

  • 0

    yabits

    Only in America.

  • 0

    chuckers

    "Dove World Outreach Center"

    Is that meant to be ironic?

    While he is at it, why not toss a couple of Bibles on the barbie as well? There have been a lot of Christian terrorists down through the years as well.

  • 0

    semperfi

    Why am I not surprised . . . . . . this the culture that also bred the Westboro Evangelical Church in USA ! ?

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    @yabits. Absolutely right! God bless freedom! "Although I disagre with what you are saying , I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Only in America! Not doing something you believe in (right or wrong) because of fear is the exact definition of what Terrorism is all about. I agree burning any book or flag is STUPID and this guy is a bottom feeding redneck idiot, but even stupid people have rights in the USA. Not doing it because the White House and the General are afraid of the backlash, thats eactly what the Terrorists set out to accomplish. Congratulations guys! You have succeeded!

  • 0

    skipbeat

    alladin: This is why I no longer believe in Christianity anymore. Here you have a pastor preaching the word of God and on the other hand decides to bun the Quran in a protest of 911. Is this the real Christian way? Would Christ Jesus do that himself if he was here in person? I really dont think so. I dont even think he would allow the practice of this at all. All of these Christians are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. If they really want to make a change in this world, they should all get together and have a worldwide prayer meeting for 2 months and pray for peace rather than crating a reason to start up another war.

    Define Christian. There are many people who are manipulating the Bible to fit their lifestyle and actions. Do you realize that there are different Christian denominations just like there are different Islamic beliefs such as the Sunni or Shiites?

    SushiSake3: This shows how it's actually impossible to be a true Christian and follow the teachings of the Bible. This guy is clearly picking the teachings of the Bible and ignoring the bits he doesn't like.

    Jesus said follow me not men. What makes you the authority on what is a true Christian and the teachings of the Bible. As much as you saying the guy is nick picking aren't you doing the same thing.

  • 0

    blvtzpk

    I want to see a duel between him and Fred Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" Westboro Baptist Church. See who is the most righteous and has the most correct interpretation of the bible.

  • 0

    ratpack

    Perhaps we might be reading a story on sept 12 about the Dove World Outreach Center being burnt to the ground by radical extremists in revenege for burning their holy book!!!!Isn't there enough stirring of the hornets nests already????? Why stir it up more?????

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    Yabits -

    Only in America.

    On this point, we agree. While what this pastor is planning to do in distasteful and offensive, it is also legal. If he wants to go ahead and burn copies of the Koran, that's his Constitutionally protected expression of free speech right.

    RR

  • 0

    Gurukun

    What a moron! If he believes in burning the Koran, then let him. But he better be able to live with all the hatred and killing that this may cause on the military in the middle east.

  • 0

    M51T

    He's of the same ilk as those who burn flags, bibles, and effegies. These are actions of those who have no sinificant response. Smearing a koran in pork fat would be a more insulting gesture.

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    @kaptainKichigai

    Only in America!

    Yes. Because America is the only country in the whole world with freedom of speech. The rest of us are barbarians, right?

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    I think you mean that statement at yabits. I was agreeing with his statement of "Only in America". Burning the Quran is more of a freedom of expression and religion than speech. Countries without these rights are stuck in more barbaric times..

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    @KaptainKichigai

    "Countries without these rights are stuck in more barbaric times.."

    Sure. Point taken. But America's not the only country in the world with such rights.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    I have long felt that religion makes people insane. Suicide bombers in the middle east, clinic bombers in the US and all kinds of suicidal or murderous religious nut jobs out there.

    If you think that the age when people were superstitious and foolish enough to burn witches or exact the inquisition are gone, think again. The same hysteria and fear that enabled those things then, still exists within humanity today as well. Further, all it takes is a little enflamed hatred and fear to make people as stupidly violent and dangerous as they were in much darker times.

    This Koran buring is just one more example of this primative and backwards thinking hatred so often justified or inspired by religious zeal.

  • 0

    yabits

    I agree burning any book or flag is STUPID...

    It's tragically stupid if it influences uneducated people in places like Afghanistan -- who can't get to Florida but will instead take their rage out on our troops. Our troops who are over there trying to put the best face possible on their country.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    Now would be a great time for the muslims to step up and show the rest of the world just how tolerant they are in the same way that a weeks ago was being demanded of the rest of America by them over the building of GZ victory mosque.

    RR

  • 0

    whiskeysour

    False prophets !!!! It goes to show you there are alot of religous leaders who shouldn't be. People preaching hate and having delusions of grandeur. This man should be very careful when sleeping at night or with his family. If he will burn the Quran more Americans will die. This guy should direct his intentions on helping wounded soldiers. He should volunteer to help people.

    Dove World Outreach Center - I guess your outreaching your hate Jerry Jones !!!! Book Burnings - W T Fock ?

  • 0

    whiskeysour

    terry jones wat are you thinking ?

  • 0

    tkoind2

    "influences uneducated people in places like Afghanistan"

    But what about the legions of undeducated rabble in America? Just because these bible thumping morons may have managed through highschool, does not make them any less primative than the average Taliban. Both are motivated by the same over zealous religious stupidity that has plagued humanity since the dawn of time.

    So sure of their beliefs that they willingly trample others. So sure of their godliness that they dehumanize others. And so certain of their righteousness that they are even capable of killing those who don't share their primative superstitions.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Well now some people will better understand the concept of "legally within his rights" vs. "poor taste."

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    RomeoRamenII,

    "that's his Constitutionally protected expression of free speech right"

    You know, I'd applaud you for this highly enlightened perspective, except I know -- as do most posters here -- that if it were a Muslim cleric in Florida organizing, say, an International Bible-burning Day, or, say, an International American Flag-Burning Day, the political demographic you choose to champion on a regular basis would be the first to dust off their pitchforks and shriek to anyone within earshot that the guy A) should be deported, B) should be arrested under some arcane provision of the Patriot Act, and/or C) deserves any sort of violent retribution that comes his way.

    Yes, Pastor Dimwit Jones has every legal right to burn the Quran. But it doesn’t make him any less of an asshat for doing it. And no amount of legal protection can save him from the sheer stupidity dripping off of every word he mutters to the media. The saving grace in all of this is that he’s almost going out of his way to let the world know that he's a not only denser than a platinum brick, but also a bit of a loon.

  • 0

    skipthesong

    idiot; both the pastor and so are the people going crazy over it. But, do notice the difference in the response between this disgusting action and that of the Park 51, and that is relevant.

  • 0

    Gurukun

    tkoind-well said! I never understood, no matter how extreme a person was into thier own religion, that they could kill another human because others choose not to follow thier beliefs.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    He sez he got 100 Death-threats, I would reckon a lot of those are from fellow christians and War Veterans.

    Lets wait how big his congregation will be on the 12th after the burning and his arrest for violating a fire-department ordnance.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Nothing screams nazism better than a good book burning.

  • 0

    flavorflav

    This is why I no longer believe in Christianity anymore.

    Well, I always had little respect for any religion that allows for a simple confession as a way to wipe away your sins and crimes (no matter how serious it may be) and allow you to enter heaven. The fact that it allows you to burn holy books is simply another reason to frown at the people like this doofus Pastor Jones who further take away any respect his religion has left.

  • 0

    Wolfpack

    This reminds me of the 'P*ss Christ' uproar from about 15 years or so ago. A guy put's a plastic Jesus on a cross into a jar of his own urine, calls it art and displays it in a New York art gallery. He get's awards from the art's world and even gets funding from the National Endowment for the Arts - that is the US government. The pastor is simply doing the same thing - expressing himself. However, what is different now is that the same people that are attacking the burning of the Koran were defending the defamation of the Christian religion. Oh yeah, and there was that picture of the Virgin Mary made from cow dung. So, who wants to defend freedom of expression now?

    I am not even religeous but I frequently see Christians and Jews attacked and belittled by Muslims and securlarists. I don't think the guy should burn the Koran because it serves no purpose. But I also believe that it serves no purpose to burn the flag or render a Christian icon in feces. We are all free to either agree or disagree with a persons mode of expression. In the case of Pastor Jones, should he burn the Koran and Muslims respond with violence it will only reenforce his point for burning the book in the first place. It would be more helpful for American and other Western Muslims if they were not so silent about the atroscities committed by Muslims in the name of Islam as they seek to condem Pastor Jones.

  • 0

    Wolfpack

    Nothing screams nazism better than a good book burning.

    How about the beheading of a journalist?

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    Yabits --

    It's tragically stupid if it influences uneducated people in places like Afghanistan -- who can't get to Florida but will instead take their rage out on our troops.

    Do you remember what happened when your Bible, Newsweek, falsely reported the flushing of a Koran at GITMO a few years back? One of the fallout incidents was Muslims in Africa shot an 84-year-old nun four times in the back.

    Point being is if Petraeus is really concerned about the safety of his troops over the actions of a 50-member church in Florida, he would relax the ROE in A-stan.

    RR

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    @yabits-I hear you. But why put on a false face? the truth is-America allows and supports its freedoms. If that pisses off the insurgents- what are you going to do? If some jack a** wants to burn the Quran, or march with the clan down a street, or support white power on a ranch in Idaho, America allows it. We cant say "dont express your beliefs by burning a book because it will make radical Muslims angry" in a country AMERICA invaded to spread the very liberties that this Florida jack a** is exploiting. @kyushujoe- you are ABSOLUTELY right. @tkoind2-You are correct. If only everyone could be as open minded. But there are ignorant people everywhere, and they have their rights to expression and religion too. As long as they are not doing the violence. The full blame falls on the small minds that allow themselves to be pushed to violence. If someone burns a book, or a flag, or stages a march, they should be allowed to without the fear of persecution. That is what America was built upon.

  • 0

    kurumazaka

    Does he have the constitutionally protected right to harm the national interest? Freedom of speech does not give him the right to say, read out classified military documents to his congregation. Would guess that the DOJ can come up with some legal means to shut this clown down. If not, here is hoping he gets whacked before he gets a lot of people hurt. Preferably by a non-Muslim. As much as I disagree with followers of Islam going crazy at each and every perceived insult, he knows very well that they will go crazy over something so egregious. He does not have the right to get people killed to make his point.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    LFRAgain --

    As I wrote in my first post: A stupid idea, but one that's protected under the First Admendment just as any scenerios you pro-offered in your 10:23 post.

    RR

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    Nothing screams nazism better than a good book burning.

    How about the beheading of a journalist?

    Umm, no. The Nazis didn't behead their victims.

    Moderator: Readers, no more references to Nazis, please.

  • 0

    KakiOko

    He is just as extremist with Christianity in a bad way as the terrorists are with Islam. Both groups are crazy and stupid. They should get together and blow each other up and let the rest of the world just get on with living in peace.

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    Romeo,

    As I wrote in my first post: A stupid idea, but one that's protected under the First Admendment just as any scenerios you pro-offered in your 10:23 post.

    And as I pointed out in my response to your post, the hypocrisy and facade of Constitution-inspired tolerance if positions were reversed are often just that -- double-standards and smokescreen.

    I don't disagree with you; Pastor Jones has a right to make an ass of himself within the boundaries of the law. But I don't believe for a second that many Conservatives would be as willing to extend the same sudden hand of "It's your right" to anyone burning revered symbols of Christianity.

  • 0

    yabits

    Do you remember what happened when your Bible, Newsweek, falsely reported the flushing of a Koran at GITMO a few years back?

    Well, Newsweek is written to a high-school level and so may be beyond your capabilities. First of all, Newsweek got the story from one defense department person and included it in a larger story about prisoner abuse at Gitmo.

    They then sent the story to a second Defense Department official for checking. That person made a correction or two, but left the Koran part intact.

    Newsweek wasn't the first the report the allegations. Months prior to that, similar allegations from released detainees were surfacing in British news reports as well as on Al-Jazeera. An attorney representing 13 Yemeni detainees in Gitmo reports in depositions that a mass-suicide was attempted in August of 2003 after a guard took a Koran and trampled on it. Another detainee tried to kill himself when a guard took his Koran and threw it in the toilet.

    The anti-"victory mosque" crowd and this pastor's stunt makes all those allegations all the more believable.

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    @LFRAgain

    They did. Guillotines.

  • 0

    skipbeat

    First, the guy should not be burning the Quran. Second, the Muslim will use this as a justification that America is intolerant toward Islam. If people don't already realized what is going on, Westerns have become pro-Islam and anti-Christianity from an observation point. Before long the U.S. will grant Sharia courts for Muslim in the country to say she is not anti-Muslim or anti-Islam. Isn't Sharia courts just another body govern institution like other governing institutions in the U.S. for other organizations so there is no reason not to have it.

  • 0

    yabits

    But why put on a false face? the truth is-America allows and supports its freedoms.

    There is no false face. Only in America would a people who claim to support the troops also defend actions which further endanger them. And they have every right to do so.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    This reminds me of the 'P*ss Christ' uproar from about 15 years or so ago. A guy put's a plastic Jesus on a cross into a jar of his own urine, calls it art and displays it in a New York art gallery. He get's awards from the art's world and even gets funding from the National Endowment for the Arts - that is the US government.

    Exactly. Who cares what this pastor does? Only the neocommunist left, and the Islamic radicals, who all work hand in hand.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    Its a false face if we stop someone from expressing themselves because we are scared of what will happen. If we are so concerned about endangering our troops, BRING THEM HOME. If you believe on something, either go all the way to protect or go home.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    a small Florida church

    The radical left media is making an issue over what some nutcase with 10 followers is doing in Florida. Who cares!?!?!

  • 0

    yabits

    Who cares what this pastor does? Only the neocommunist left, and the Islamic radicals, who all work hand in hand.

    Wow, I never knew General Petraeus was part of the neocommunist left. (I'm pretty sure he's not an Islamic radical.)

  • 0

    sushi

    This very SMALL "church" seems fishy to me. I saw the "pastor" on TV, even more fishy. I bet he is secretly backed by certain people with a deceptive agenda.

    Again, just like the protests over the Islamic center a few blocks from WTC (aka ground zero mosque), the purpose of this great uproar might only be to fix in everyone's mind that Muslims did 911.

  • 0

    yabits

    Its a false face if we stop someone from expressing themselves because we are scared of what will happen.

    LOL!! I have no desire to stop the man. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of his defenders: the same people who didn't rush to defend the first amendment rights of Muslims who want to build the Islamic Center. Their rights are just as sacred as this delusional pastor's.

    If we are so concerned about endangering our troops, BRING THEM HOME.

    The concern is about actions which cause needless further endangerment. I understand that might be too fine a distinction for the dense.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    The problem is this. A group of morons in Florida do something extreme like burn the Koran. An equally primative thinking group of morons somewhere else will react violently to that provocation. This will invoke other morons to continue the cycle for years to come.

    I am personally against such pointless provocations. But in the end if an idiot wishes to behave as such, there is not much we can do. What I wish is that the next group downstream would elect to take the higher ground and not respond in kind. Rather electing to condemn the action and not follow that with any negative behavior.

    But as I have stated, the cycle of superstitions insanity has gone on for ages and shows no signs of people coming to more rational behavior anytime soon.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    "the purpose of this great uproar might only be to fix in everyone's mind that Muslims did 911."

    Muslims, as a global collection of people, communities and individuals did nothing on 9/11. Except perhaps to mourn with the rest of us in outrage over the senselessness of the terror attacks.

    A few radicals carried out an attack in the name of Islam. This distinction is critical! And it is equally critical that the people of the world who love Islam do not say on 9/11 2010 that Christians or Westerners burned their Koran, when only a hand full of zealous fools have done so.

    The terrorists of 911 no more represent the entirety of Islam than the Florida fools represent the entirety of Christendom.

  • 0

    sharpie

    get that fire going good so we can throw him in their with it

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    yabits, It's the journo-lists who makes this news. If they didn't make a media circus of the actions of 1 nutjob and his congregation of 10 in small-town FLorida, Petraeus wouldn't be giving this ANY attention. You're deluded if you don't see this.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    This very SMALL "church" seems fishy to me. I saw the "pastor" on TV, even more fishy. I bet he is secretly backed by certain people with a deceptive agenda.

    Really? Who is that?

  • 0

    PeaceWarrior

    The guy doesn't really make much sense... He's like a little child acting without thinking it through. Watch it until the end, priceless.

    CNN interview with Jones:

    http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=12437&title=you-re-burning-their-holy-book--how-can-muslims-support-you--pastor-terry-jones-interview

  • 0

    sharpie

    Our troops who are over there trying to put the best face possible on their country.

    yabits, you cant be serious. this war is based on lies and any death resulting from it is wrong. "your country" made this war to cloud you and a great many other people into thinking that there is an enemy and it must be erradicated. "your country" created fear in people, thus creating anger and hate against muslims everywhere in the world. "your country" is to blame for all this. i dont fault the troops, in fact i pity them. they are made into sheep no more or less honorable than the insurgent groups and terrorist groups it claims to be hunting.

  • 0

    moonbeams

    This is why I no longer believe in Christianity anymore.

    I was never a Christian, but I'm not going to associate Christianity with this Sept 11, 2010 jerk just as I won't associate Islam with the jerks from Sept 11, 2001.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    yabits, your starting to sound a bit fanatical yourself. Why dont you cool down the insults and rhetoric? This pastor is a moron, its not being argued. Like it or not, he is just expressing his beliefs. The troops are doing their job and protecting that right as we have waged war on Terrorism. Asking this preacher to not burn a book because we are afraid of the consequences is doing EXACTLY what the terrorists want. The have the White House and the General wanting to prevent it because they are afraid. They have made America afraid to allow something protected by its Constittion because of fear. Just being in Iraq and Afghanistan is needless endangermeant in my opinion. Any Muslim expression- bible burning, mosque building or anything else mentioned above is equally protected and rightfully so on American soil.

  • 0

    sushi

    It's the journo-lists who makes this news.

    Who or what would make the journalists do this?

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    "Asking this preacher to not burn a book because we are afraid of the consequences is doing EXACTLY what the terrorists want."

    Huh? Could you walk us through this logic slowly, please?

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    get that fire going good so we can throw him in their (sp) with it

    Heh, another example of pro-Muslim liberal "tolerance".

    RR

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    Terroerism is control through the spread of terror. It is using terror as a weapon. TO ask a preacher to give up his belief or right to express his religion through a book burnng because he is an idiot is acceptable. To ask him to do it because we are AFRAID of the consequences it will bring on our troops is giving in to the terror. Lets not do this because we are afraid it will upset the radical Muslims and cause fighting is EXCACTLY what they were trying to achieve by the 9 11 attacks. Make America listen, Make America scared. i.e Terrorism.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    America defends peoples right to express themselves and their religion. America should not weaken that defense because they are afraid of the consequences. "Defend to the death your (his) right to say it." Even if it is the stupidest thing you have ever heard.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I watched the Video of the Interview over on Youtube(streams better than the link above)

    Speechless is all I can say right now, he barely makes sense. Lady taht interview him giver her creds for staying cool you could see she was getting frustrated with him.

  • 0

    Junnama

    Alternatively, you could say the terrorist's aim was to upset us so much we would do irrational things that would isolate us from potential allies. Burning the koran is going to p-off all Muslims, no? Looks like the terrorists have succeeded on this point...

  • 0

    SuperLib

    I'd have to agree with the above. I don't think the books should be burned because it's a stupid publicity attempt by a racist man, but I won't say they shouldn't be burned because it will create more danger because that is giving in. Any "danger" that's created is done so by an illogical mind, and I don't think I want an illogical mind making decisions for us.

    You can talk about the extent of the insult, but it's almost irrelevant. South Park wouldn't show Mohammad on their program. We had riots and killings over Danish cartoons. The movie 2012 couldn't should Islamic symbols being destroyed with other religious symbols. It's the same line of thinking....if we do things that they consider to be insulting them we're just inviting attacks on ourselves. Garbage. We should be more focused on getting them to be more tolerant.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    Time to see if Obama goes on record saying he believes it's OK that this Koran burning should happen since it's a protected right, though not a smart thing to do -- like he did on the GZ victory mosque issue -- or whether he will keep the teleprompter locked up on this one.

    RR

  • 0

    PeaceWarrior

    @Zenny11

    Right? This guy's really out of it, all the contradictions and all...

    She was cool though, eh? But you could tell she was almost at the boiling point. Especially at the end, where he really was at his worst.

  • 0

    Beelzebub

    Once it's over with, I suppose it's only a matter of time before the Reverend Jones is affectionately hugged by a suicide bomber bent on escorting him to the netherworld.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    @beelzebub-We can only hope...

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    "“wondering, ‘When do we stop?’”"

    You stop when your actions turn from something you believe in to being a downright arse, and doing actions that are intentionally offensive and potentially threatening to others. There are times where I hate American politics, and I have the right to use the American flag to wipe my butt with and then try to set it on fire, but why on earth would I do so unless I WANTED to prompt anger from others? (and I would NEVER do it, by the way... I'm just posting a rhetorical question)

    RR: "Time to see if Obama goes on record saying he believes it's OK that this Koran burning should happen since it's a protected right, though not a smart thing to do..."

    You really need to stop being so bitter. I doubt Obama would EVER say it was 'okay that this Koran burning should happen'. No, not at all. He may well say it is the man's right to do so, but never would he say it is 'okay'. In fact, it's pretty clear that a lot of people are saying he SHOULDN'T do it.

    What do YOU think?

  • 0

    kazan

    This guy is insulting the thousands of peaceful Muslims out there and making all Americans look like close-minded bigots because his little crusade is getting so much media attention. I know he has a right to protest and act in ways he want, but whether those actions are doing more harm than good - that's something he should think about.

  • 0

    Sarge

    "This guy is insulting to the thousands of peaceful Muslims out there"

    Out of the millions of Muslims out there.

  • 0

    ChristopherBlackwell

    Lets see, he has a fifty member church, $140,000 mortgage that he can't pay and runs a business on the side selling furniture on E-bay. Sounds to me he is hoping the publicity might make him a little money and increase his membership. It is usually little failing churches that do these kind of stunts. And for the same reason, the minister is hoping it will make him famous and successful, with a big income. So much for caring anything about the deity. Money talks with a number of the ministers and that is the reason they are in the ministry to make as much money as possible. Serving Mammon is so much more profitable than serving God in their mind.

    I think consider how insane this little act is, you can fully understand why the bank wants the mortgage paid now, before the church goes up in smoke. Yes, I would say that church sounds like a real credit risk. Pity the poor bank that holds the mortgage.

  • 0

    sailwind

    Since it is already well established that I think building a Mosque inside the killing and debris field of ground zero is a real bad idea and is totally disrespectful to the 9/11 families and their losses, and shouldn’t be done by the Muslim backers of this idea. Even though they have the constitutional right and no one will deny that. I was told over and over again that I could care less about the Constitution and Religious freedom since I took that position. Actually was told I was an intolerant bigot for not being down with the whole idea of locating a Mosque in the area. I think I’m going to risk the inevitable same line of attack on me on this one, take the chance that I’ll be called out as an intolerant bigot toward Christians now. This idea of his is a pretty bad one and is totally disrespectful toward Muslims and their religion, he may have the constitutional right to do this and no one will deny him that, but that sure doesn’t make it right. I’ll get blasted once again from the usual J.T Liberal suspects I’m sure for not putting the Constitution first on this one also.

  • 0

    WilliB

    What is fascinating is that all these believers in Afghanistan now are suddenly aware of local town news in some backwater in Florida. And how excited they are!

    Has anybody thought of handing them bibles and ask them how they would treat them? Oops, carrying a bible in Afghanistan is punishable by death...

  • 0

    WilliB

    kazan:

    " This guy is insulting the thousands of peaceful Muslims "

    But isn´t it fascinating to watch how thousands of peaceful muslims suddenly become very unpeaceful at the drop of a pin (or a koran, as it were?)

    I think the London muslim protesters back in London nailed with their poster: "Behead those who say islam is violent!"

  • 0

    sushi

    Lets see, he has a fifty member church, $140,000 mortgage that he can't pay and runs a business on the side selling furniture on E-bay.

    So maybe someone is paying him to do this.

  • 0

    kazan

    But isn´t it fascinating to watch how thousands of peaceful muslims suddenly become very unpeaceful at the drop of a pin (or a koran, as it were?)

    Not the ones I've met, at least. Although I can honestly understand why they'd be so upset over the burning of their holy book. Radical Islam is a fairly recent development (my friend's grandfather talks about the days when men and women could attend weddings together) and many practitioners of the faith are peaceful rational people. They don't make the news, however, unlike the violent ones (who are probably going to react to this protest the same way they would react to getting poked in the eye with a stick). This whole Quran burning thing is the product of intolerance, generalizations, and misunderstanding about the Muslim faith.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    Oops, carrying a bible in Afghanistan is punishable by death...

    But Willi, according to the Left, only what happens in the US is important, the "little people" around the world are "too low to matter".

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    Actually I'm going to say that I support this guy. He has the right to express his disgust with what "islam" has brought to us in the past decade or more. I just find it funny and hypocritical at calling him an idiot for his freedom of expression but other can get away with their bad choices as "their constitutional right." . This man no matter how much of a southern redneck preacher he may be is proving a point. What's good for the goose is not always good for the gander. I'm just waiting to see how peaceful "muslims" will be when he goes through with it and see how many "peaceful" muslims turn violent and angry. To think that muslims worldwide will be absolutely PO'ed at this I just hope that they sit down and wonder why the Buddhists didn't declare a war on Muslims when the Taliban destroyed ancient Buddhist statues. Could this be another case of what's good for the goose is not also good for the gander? World prepare to see the irrational idiot muslims go crazy. This man will prove his point. He has not advocated any violence. Just expressed his opinion of islam. And for the troops. They are already in a hostile place. Maybe they'll get some more chances to engage these enraged enemies and have a chance to wipe them out. A few guys killed is worth the collateral damage if we get a good portion of them.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    smithinjapan --

    What do YOU think?

    Answered your question in my first post on this thread. Please try and keep up.

    RR

  • 0

    ulysses

    Maybe they'll get some more chances to engage these enraged enemies and have a chance to wipe them out. A few guys killed is worth the collateral damage if we get a good portion of them.

    The problem is cowardly keyboard cowboys like these who have no qualms about their own brave soldiers getting killed just because some lunatic provides gratification to their base desires.

    The troops don't need crazed individuals blowing themselves up , inspired or outraged by this idiots actions.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    Why do you have to insult him as cowardly just because his opinion is different than yours? Crazed individuals are going to blow themselves up no matter what. Some pissant little preacher in bumf::k Florida isnt going to be the straw that broke the camels back. Its broken. It was broken years and years ago. This is part of the soldiers job. This is what they sign up for and are paid for and God bless them. Its a dirty, dangerous job. They know the drill. They dont need you to start name calling on their behalf.

  • 0

    Kapuna

    If this pastor goes ahead with his book burning plan and, nary a news organization covers it, who’s to know? The whole idea behind this is to incite as much hatred as possible.

  • 0

    presto345

    What a jerk.

  • 0

    ulysses

    People who are willing to sacrifice others' lives for the sake of their own narrow minded beliefs are cowards.

    This is part of the soldiers job.

    Easy for you to say behind the comfort of your armchair, but a soldier signs up to defend his country, not to get blown up as a consequence of the actions of a demented individual.

    Gen. David Petraeus warned Tuesday in an e-mail to The Associated Press that “images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence.” It was a rare example of a military commander taking a position on a domestic political matter.

    The only reason Gen Petraues wrote that mail is that he knows that his troops are going to be even greater danger because of the actions of this lunatic.

    Do you believe even for one minute you care more about the troop's welfare than the Gen??

  • 0

    Klein2

    This is the problem with mysticism. If one actually believes that these writings are the word of God or embody God, such a person is likely to hate all kinds of things irrationally. The guy is a jerk, but I guess there is no law against it. Just as there is no zoning law about religious centers in Manhattan.

    Somebody in the world IS burning Bibles. Somehow, that never really bothered me. I just assumed that such a person exists. Flag burning? Effigies? It does not make a bit of difference unless you believe in voodoo or something. If your religion is injured by the destruction of some writings printed in Hong Kong, then how timeless or universal can it be?

    These are the same people who believe that gold and diamonds are inherently valuable.

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    People who are willing to sacrifice others' lives for the sake of their own narrow minded beliefs are cowards.

    Blair. Bush. etc.

  • 0

    crazygaijin

    i think he should burn a Quran, an Old Testament, a New Testament, a Lotus Sutra, a Hindu text, a Taoist text and on and on and on. Who cares anyway pretty soon everyone will own a Kindle ebook reader and the notion of a good ol' "book burning" will be out-of-date anyway.

  • 0

    Klein2

    When your religion tells you to be this much of a jerk, or to react to jerks out of all proportion to how much they harm you, it is time to find a new religion.

    These guys should take their Gods go to a boxing ring somewhere and leave the rest of us to get on with life.

  • 0

    lostrune2

    If the generals on the ground say it will be detrimental to their troops, shouldn't that be followed?

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    pretty soon everyone will own a Kindle ebook reader and the notion of a good ol' "book burning" will be out-of-date anyway.

    Good point, crazygainin.

    "Right you heathen b%stards, I'm gonna FREEZE this Koran on the screen," doesn't have the same ring.

  • 0

    kazan

    These guys should take their Gods go to a boxing ring somewhere and leave the rest of us to get on with life. Google "Jesus vs. Mohammed", someone's made a great animation of this very idea.

    This is the problem with mysticism. If one actually believes that these writings are the word of God or embody God, such a person is likely to hate all kinds of things irrationally.

    Which is the reason why fundamentalist Christians flip out at Bible burnings in the same way that fundamentalist Muslims are going to flip out at this Quran burning. The only difference is we're not currently fighting a violent war against fundamentalist Christians. I'm all for freedom of speech and expression, and people have a right, especially in America, to do what they want. However, if your actions start harming other people as a result, I believe you should at least give them some second thoughts.

  • 0

    sushi

    My problem is not so much with this idiot pastor, if he wants to burn a book its up to him, but I hope someone will inform him that he is burning the wrong book!

    My problem is with the big fuss that is made out of this insignificant little event.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Sushi, Lady that interviewer him on CNN told him that already.

    His reply: "We will burn the Quran to send a message ONLY to radical muslims that we won't tolerate them." Said that he welcomes moderate muslims and doesn't seem to care if they are upset by the burning.

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    He's actually very likely to gain a few converts for Islam too. Some folk (a very few, I grant you) are going to glance at the Koran for the first time in a bookshop or library, just out of curiosity. A few of them will start reading it. A few of them will finish it. And a few of them will believe.

    Way to go, fool! I'm sure the good Lord is mightily impressed.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    "Right you heathen b%stards, I'm gonna FREEZE this Koran on the screen," doesn't have the same ring.

    Does deleting a digital copy of the Koran also warrant death?

  • 0

    Mittsu

    more extremism is precisely the way to stop the bloodshed....

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    To think that this guys actions make the troops less safe is ridiculous. Are the Taliban trying only to injure the troops, but NOW they'll try to kill them?

    However, if the media keeps broadcasting coverage of this inconsequential nutjob and his handful of congregants all over international news, then it's the MEDIA who are being irresponsible and endangering the public image of our mission.

  • 0

    mightyninja

    My problem is with the big fuss that is made out of this insignificant little event.

    right on brother. Who cares what he thinks? His logic is as mistaken as his justification. Christianity has caused as many, if not more, wars than any other religion in history. I'm sure he will have a few supporters throughout the "christian" world who se this as an act for God.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    "These guys should take their Gods go to a boxing ring somewhere and leave the rest of us to get on with life."

    The Hindu gods would kick butt, my friend. They have so many arms (some of them, anyway) that you wouldn't see what hit you. And who would want to go up against Vishnu or Shiva? Of course, if they brought back the old Greek Gods you'd see a pretty decent battle.

    Seriously, though, this pastor is a nut job. And you watch -- he'll burn it and get death threats, and start saying, "See? This is the kind of action that cannot be tolerated!" The fool.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    People who are willing to sacrifice others' lives for the sake of their own narrow minded beliefs are cowards.

    I believe this is the point this redneck preacher is trying to put across to extremists.

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    sailwind,

    To bring you up to speed, if we had to characterize this discussion as one between Conservatives and Liberals, it's actually been Conservatives who have been presenting Constitutional arguments to support this guy's right to burn the Quran.

    Liberals, if we have to labeled as such, have been not been toting out the Constitution at all, nor have we been making any claim that the guy should be forcibly stopped. Rather, the resounding message has been that Terry Jones is a moron of the highest order and that what he plans needlessly endangers lives.

    If I had to distill my stance on rights into one sentence, I'd say that with enjoying one's rights comes an equal dose of the responsible exercise thereof. Freedom solely for the sake of freedom, without responsible and mature restraint where called for, isn’t liberty. It’s anarchy. Terry Jones isn’t behaving responsibly.

  • 0

    ulysses

    To think that this guys actions make the troops less safe is ridiculous. Are the Taliban trying only to injure the troops, but NOW they'll try to kill them?

    My 2 year old friend, you have a lot to learn.

    The danger is not going to be just Taliban, but anybody who is sufficiently riled up and takes the same view as this nut-job preacher. This nut-job holds all Muslims responsible for the actions of a few. Similarly there will be some trigger happy Afghan(Taliban, Afghan army or just about any civilian) who will hold all US troops responsible for the actions of this idiot.

    This is the point Gen Petraeus was trying to make and seems to be totally lost on you.

  • 0

    majimekun

    Let him burn it and then send him to Kaboul.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    Its not lost, its just part of the War on Terror. We dont stop doing something because its going to "rile" up extremists. We dont ignore the Constitution of the USA because some radicals will be angry. You seem to be jumping at shadows and so scared for the safety of our soldiers that you are calling everyone names and pointing fingers. To not stand up for what you believe in because you are scared of the consequences seems the most cowardly thing of all. After all the attention this story gets, if the preacher backs down, extremists from all over the world will be high fiving in their camps saying "Yes, we did it! They are to frightened of us to burn the Koran. We have struck terror into their hearts!" This is what the soldiers are fighting to prevent. How do you know people on here are in their armchair? what makes you think their ae not soldiers posting right now in defense of this preachers freedom of religion?

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    The danger is not going to be just Taliban, but anybody who is sufficiently riled up and takes the same view as this nut-job preacher.

    So what this guy is doing will make otherwise normal Muslims go insanely psychotic and start blowing themselves up to kill some American troops... nope.

    If they weren't turned into suicide bomber by repeated calls for Jihad, the so-called American imperialism, the US support for Israel, the US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, and "the occupation of the land of the holy shrine" (US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia), then the actions of this backwoods preacher isn't going to do it.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    The danger is not going to be just Taliban, but anybody who is sufficiently riled up and takes the same view as this nut-job preacher.

    ulysses, you still don't comprehend. So what this guy is doing will make otherwise normal Muslims go insanely psychotic and start blowing themselves up to kill some American troops... nope.

    If they weren't turned into suicide bomber by repeated calls for Jihad, the so-called American imperialism, the US support for Israel, the US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, and "the occupation of the land of the holy shrine" (US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia), then the actions of this backwoods preacher isn't going to do it.

  • 0

    Newsman

    Sigh ... the price of freedom means that the freedom of speech and expression is also granted equally to the idiots, the insensitive, the hateful, the foolish, the cretins, the mean, the spiteful, and Pat Robertson. I don't agree with this preacher, wish he wouldn't do it, and devoutly hope for a miracle between now and Saturday that will persuade him to change his mind. All the same, though, that is America, and in a perverse sort of way I am proud of it. Don't forget: If he has the right to be an idiot, we have the right to tell him he is being an idiot.

  • 0

    genji17

    Dont really agree with this idea, though if it was a bible, there would be 115 posts explaining how its his right to burn it and government would turn away from it saying First Amendment....

  • 0

    kazan

    To not stand up for what you believe in because you are scared of the consequences seems the most cowardly thing of all.

    Excuse me? Just because I am concerned about the lives of soldiers and America's image with the Muslim world doesn't mean I don't believe in freedom of speech. Nobody is forcing this guy not to burn Qurans. We are, however, saying that it is a stupendously idiotic and insensitive action, and that if this man had any respect for other religions, Muslims (including American ones), and the danger that American soldiers are in, he would rethink his decision.

  • 0

    TimRussert

    It's just a book. And the pastor man's religious freedoms would be unconstitutionally denied him here. Let's all try and be more tolerant here.

  • 0

    shinjukuboy

    My reading is that this pastor has an ego soooo biiiig that he wants a lot of media attention for his church of 15, and the price that has to be paid for his 15 minutes of fame is the deaths of US military in Afganistan and Iraq, which will inevidibly follow in the wake of his Koran burning.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Super Lib - You can talk about the extent of the insult, but it's almost irrelevant. South Park wouldn't show Mohammad on their program. We had riots and killings over Danish cartoons. The movie 2012 couldn't should Islamic symbols being destroyed with other religious symbols. It's the same line of thinking....if we do things that they consider to be insulting them we're just inviting attacks on ourselves. Garbage. We should be more focused on getting them to be more tolerant.

    Agree totally here. The problem is not some idiot burning the Koran, the problem is the intolerance of Muslims.

    Sailwind - This idea of his is a pretty bad one and is totally disrespectful toward Muslims and their religion, he may have the constitutional right to do this and no one will deny him that, but that sure doesn’t make it right. I’ll get blasted once again from the usual J.T Liberal suspects I’m sure for not putting the Constitution first on this one also.

    Actually no. You see they all agree with you. Now if it was a bunch of Bibles being burned, or a flag, they'd totally be all, constitutional right. But a Koran, no, theres simply no reason for this... Typical Dhimmi behavior.

    kazan - Which is the reason why fundamentalist Christians flip out at Bible burnings in the same way that fundamentalist Muslims are going to flip out at this Quran burning. The only difference is we're not currently fighting a violent war against fundamentalist Christians.

    Well, that and the fact that no one is likely to go and blow you up for doing so. Guess you missed that little fact.

    ulysses - Easy for you to say behind the comfort of your armchair, but a soldier signs up to defend his country, not to get blown up as a consequence of the actions of a demented individual.

    Among other things, what every soldier swears, is to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. Yes, that even includes protecting the rights of idiots like this.

    Dont really agree with this idea, though if it was a bible, there would be 115 posts explaining how its his right to burn it and government would turn away from it saying First Amendment....

    Thats what I find so hypocritical here. I don't think this is a good idea. I think its terrible to destroy symbols of what others consider sacred. Be it the bible, the talmud, the koran, or a countries flag for that matter. But I support peoples right to do it as well. And I find it amazing that some of the same people that were preaching about freedom of religion over the victory mosque, are so opposed to this. Do you support the first Amendment or not? Condemn as the idiot he is, but support his right to be an idiot. Thats America, thats freedom. Love it, or leave it.

  • 0

    WilliB

    Superlib:

    " You can talk about the extent of the insult, but it's almost irrelevant. South Park wouldn't show Mohammad on their program. We had riots and killings over Danish cartoons. The movie 2012 couldn't should Islamic symbols being destroyed with other religious symbols. It's the same line of thinking....if we do things that they consider to be insulting them we're just inviting attacks on ourselves. "

    Spot on. The basic rule here is: Where Islam rules, islam is supreme. And where islam does not rule, islam is also supreme.

    By lambasting this sensation-seeking pastor, we accept islamic supremacy back in the West.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    mikehuntez: "I believe this is the point this redneck preacher is trying to put across to extremists."

    Good of you to admit he is an out and out hypocrite.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    "Let him burn it and then send him to Kaboul."

    Agreed. I say let the guy do what he feels it's his right to do, and volunteer on the front lines in Afghanistan. My guess is there is no way in his definition of hell he would ever entertain the idea. Who cares about American troops so long as this guy gets a bit of face time in the news, and a number of hypocrites supporting his 'cause'.

  • 0

    kazan

    Well, that and the fact that no one is likely to go and blow you up for doing so. Guess you missed that little fact.

    I couldn't think of a better analogy, but given that the fundamentalist Christians in my area have bombed abortion clinics, synagogues, and mosques for less than burning Bibles, I thought it was a reasonable comparison.

    Thats America, thats freedom. Love it, or leave it.

    Read the other posts. People here do support freedom of speech, and the right for an idiot to be an idiot. But America's not a black-and-white "love it or leave it" place, contrary to your argument. Do I support his right to burn Qurans? Yes. Do I support his actions, in that they are inflammatory to extremist Muslims and overwhelmingly rude (at best) to the rest of the Muslim world? No.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    This shouldn't even be news, this guy should be ignored in his backwater church. However the AP and anti-American liberals want to pump this up into an international event.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    but you DO defend his right to do so...yes?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Kazan.

    Well said.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    SuperLib: "Spot on. The basic rule here is: Where Islam rules, islam is supreme. And where islam does not rule, islam is also supreme."

    To the narrow-minded, it would seem that way. I call the people who allow others to celebrate their religion as open-minded and generous, unlike the pastor in question, who is simply as petty and evil as any radical Muslim people proclaim to be against.

    It is funny, though, in a very sad way, to watch this guy literally say, "I'm against (radical) Islam, so I'm going to burn their holy book knowing it is the most offensive thing I can do to them." Again, reminds me of the extremist calling for all extremists to be shot. Some of you might do well to learn from this man's hypocrisy.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    Ironically you just described the whole of American foreign policy in this one sentence.

    ok, assuming you are right, as opposed to???

  • 0

    tkoind2

    I am troubled by the constant references to Afghans here on this thread. Do you people really look down on an entire nation of people with such disdain?

    I study Afghan music and I can tell you that it is a rich and dynamic culture. The fact that they have been subjected to 30+years of war is more the fault of the cold war and other factors.

    So when we talk about the reaction of the Islamic world to this Florida nonsense, keep in mind that most Afghans will not react at all. They are too busy trying to rebuild their lives. The Taliban do not represent the majority of Afghans and their reactionary response can be predicted.

    If you really wish to worry, worry more about the reaction of a few radical people around the world. And show more charity to the people of Afghanistan and their ongoing misfortune. Afterall, we are trying to help them as a part of our mission there.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    It is funny, though, in a very sad way, to watch this guy literally say, "I'm against (radical) Islam, so I'm going to burn their holy book knowing it is the most offensive thing I can do to them." Again, reminds me of the extremist calling for all extremists to be shot. Some of you might do well to learn from this man's hypocrisy.

    It would be one thing if the Pope, or Jerry Falwell, or some major evangelical leader were to do this. But the press, the Muslims, and the Left are obsessing about some little crackpot with almost zero following. It would be the same if americans were trying to military actions against muslim terrorist organizations because some Muslim taxi driver in NY spit on a cross.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    the price that has to be paid for his 15 minutes of fame is the deaths of US military in Afganistan and Iraq, which will inevidibly follow in the wake of his Koran burning.

    How will this incite more violence than now? If they were going to fight against the US troop,s they are already doing it. This is not going to make ordinarily peaceful Muslims become jihadists.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    So when we talk about the reaction of the Islamic world to this Florida nonsense, keep in mind that most Afghans will not react at all.

    EXACTLY!!

  • 0

    WilliB

    Were the Buddhist riots and death threats when the Taliban blew up the Bahmian Buddhas in Afghanistan?

    As a gesture of their respect for religious symbols of others, they could suggest to re-build them. Oops...

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    the fundamentalist Christians in my area have bombed abortion clinics, synagogues, and mosques for less than burning Bibles,

    Really? All of this happened "in your area"? You must live in the most violent neighborhood in America.

    for less than burning Bibles,

    OK, assuming that you live in Beirut USA, what are the reasons?

  • 0

    sarahsuz25

    Really, you can find out everything you need to know about this guy in the details of his personal life. He's not an ordained minister, doesn't even have a church because the bank's about to foreclose on him, makes his living selling furniture on ebay. It's all about the money, of course, and always was. He was a completely worthless, broke nobody, hoping to make his living from his "flock," but 40 people who believe in the kind of nonsense he's spouting are unlikely to bring in enough, so he decided to take it national. Now I'm sure donations are pouring in from around the country. I'm sure he doesn't believe a word of it, just like Fred Phelps. And no, he's not going to stop. Just look at all the attention (and $$$) he's getting--why would he stop? As long as people are paying attention to him and giving him money, he'll keep coming up with more and more ridiculous stunts; again, look at Fred Phelps for an example. And it's ridiculous to think that this is part of a conspiracy, or that he's being paid off to do this. The people who would gain from encouraging this kind of thing don't even need to lift a finger--there are enough greedy idiots out there who are more than happy to exploit religion for their own personal gain to keep this kind of thing going indefinitely.

    All we can do is stop giving these people any sort of attention, and they'll quickly fade away.

  • 0

    Junnama

    Oh dear, kinda makes the balloon boy thing seem on the up-and-up!

  • 0

    shinjukuboy

    sarahsuz25, if all this is true, then it looks like it the the press that is looking for a story that will generate headlines and viewers and readers. Maybe the problem is the press trying to find a simple story that lots of dumbed-down people will easily understand and then it is the press taht makes money. Maybe the attention given to this guy is a just symptom.

  • 0

    kazan

    Really? All of this happened "in your area"? You must live in the most violent neighborhood in America. OK, assuming that you live in Beirut USA, what are the reasons?

    This has nothing to do with the article at hand, so if the moderator deletes it, I have no problem, but I'll answer anyways. I live in a fairly conservative area, and in this case, the broad label of "conservative" runs the gamut from friendly people to KKK members. Popular targets of the more extreme groups include an abortion clinic owned by a family friend, any mosques within city limits, and my neighborhood synagogue (which is set on fire roughly once a year).

    As for reasons, only the fundamentalist Christians know for sure. I would guess it has something to do with these buildings going against their personal beliefs. There has never been a Bible burning in my city however, and none of the buildings have held particularly inflammatory events that go beyond day-to-day business.

    It's not 'Beirut, USA' as you mockingly call it, but crimes against people of different faiths/beliefs in particular seem to happen more frequently than other crimes.

    And seeing the other townspeople's attitudes towards Muslims is what motivates me so much in this debate. Many of the Muslims I know are friendly, open-minded people who dislike the zealotry of al Qaeda as much as the area Christians. This attitude didn't stop them from getting openly attacked in the weeks following 9/11, and they are still discriminated against now. And then this man in Florida decides to hold a burn the Quran day - an insult to anyone of the Muslim faith. When are we going to learn to stop judging books by their covers?

  • 0

    SuperLib

    kazan: This guy is insulting the thousands of peaceful Muslims out there and making all Americans look like close-minded bigots because his little crusade is getting so much media attention. I know he has a right to protest and act in ways he want, but whether those actions are doing more harm than good - that's something he should think about.

    We're talking about one guy with 50 followers up against exponentially more who are trying to convince him to change his mind. Sure, some people will choose to ignore the opposition and focus on the pastor only, but then you're just dealing with someone who is making a choice to be irrational and at that point there's not much you can do about it.

  • 0

    sarahsuz25

    shinjukuboy, absolutely! The problem is that it's too lucrative to encourage these morons, both for the press and for the morons themselves. As regular citizens who want no part of this circus, all we can do is turn away and not look. And I guess that includes posting about it on JT, haha.

  • 0

    Klein2

    "Oh dear, kinda makes the balloon boy thing seem on the up-and-up!"

    Coincidentally (?) the balloon boy family has indeed moved to Florida.

  • 0

    ulysses

    This is not going to make ordinarily peaceful Muslims become jihadists.

    You have obviously no idea about religious hysteria. The book burning will invite demonstrations, people will die in these, it will fuel rage amongst more, and somebody who had no intention of picking up a gun or a bomb will do so to avenge the killings.

    The issue here is, do you care enough about the lives of your soldiers, or do you think of them as fodder to feed your prejudiced view of the world?

  • 0

    Klein2

    "Liberals, if we have to labeled as such, have been not been toting out the Constitution at all, nor have we been making any claim that the guy should be forcibly stopped. Rather, the resounding message has been that Terry Jones is a moron of the highest order and that what he plans needlessly endangers lives."

    I consider myself kind of liberal and don't think he should be stopped. Dont think the Ground zero thing should be stopped either. I think whether you agree with this pastor or not has more to do with whether you are a jerk or not more than anything. He is not going to make a point, he is not going to get people to rethink their opinions. He is just publicizing his hissy fit.

    Anyone who thinks this guy is doing anything more than oxidizing some cellulose has a screw loose, period. Yeah, that includes radical this and fundamentalist that. He should be ignored in the strongest possible way.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    Ulysses everything you have said thus far is nothing but opinion and conjecture. Where do you get off thinking you know everything and insulting anyone who doesnt agree with your extreme opinions?. you sound like some teenager copying the rantings of his ex military Sociology teacher. The soldiers dont need you to speak for them. They are fine.

  • 0

    Sunjovi

    Come on there are millions of copy of quaran everywhere. Dont be panic for one weird person act.

  • 0

    Klein2

    "You have obviously no idea about religious hysteria."

    This must be a joke. Holy books are full of religious hysteria. There is no way to stop it because it is entirely irrational.

    If the world has to end because some joker decides to burn a book, then it must be because God intended it. So let the games begin!

  • 0

    lostrune2

    I'd put more weight on what the ridiculous generals on the ground have to say than what the media or the people here have to say. Ha!

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    Manfromamaerica,

    "the AP and anti-American liberals want to pump this up into an international event."

    Make you a deal. You stop posting asinine statements, and I'll stop pointing them out. What do you think?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    manfromamerica: " But the press, the Muslims, and the Left are obsessing about some little crackpot with almost zero following."

    Why does it need be a celebrity who does something wrong for it to qualify as being wrong, in your books? On the contrary, this goes to show just how petty and evil your average Joe can be. If some no-one picks up the US flag in front of a camera and sets it on fire, afterward urinating and stamping on it, is it any less offensive if he's a non-celebrity?

    WilliB: "Were the Buddhist riots and death threats when the Taliban blew up the Bahmian Buddhas in Afghanistan?"

    This doesn't make sense, Willi, grammatically or otherwise.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Sunjovi: "Come on there are millions of copy of quaran everywhere. Dont be panic for one weird person act."

    That's not the point. A symbol is a symbol. It could be a US or other flag MADE IN CHINA but people would still salute it, and be angry if it were vandalized. I agree people should in no way panic over one small man's attempt to become bigger (in the eyes of the media), but it still doesn't take away from the fact that the man is knowingly doing something very evil in the eyes of Muslim culture.

  • 0

    Beelzebub

    When I read news stories from the US these days, I feel like I've wandered onto the set of another remake of 'Back to the Future', only this time we're in the Middle Ages.

  • 0

    MistWizard

    I guess if I wanted to be brief and fallicious like some posters here I could simply say: Muslims build. Christians burn.

    But that is not my style. This clown does not represent Christians. He does not represent Americans either. He only represents idiots.

    First Amendment rights get suspended in war time all the time. Not saying I necessarily would do that in this case, but I am thinking about it.

    Anyway, this guy is abusing his rights in an attempt to abuse the rights of others, because he knows his little statement will fan the flames of hate. In fact, this may well qualify as hate speech, and I am beginning to appreciate why many places ban it both in and out of war time. This man and his flock are stain on both Christianity and the United States of America.

  • 0

    ulysses

    Ulysses everything you have said thus far is nothing but opinion and conjecture.

    Well that is obviously your opinion so I don't need to bother.

    you sound like some teenager copying the rantings of his ex military Sociology teacher.

    Come on son, no need to act like infant, and " military sociology teacher", stop smoking whatever you are smoking.

    The soldiers dont need you to speak for them. They are fine.

    They obviously do ,when so called patriots like you are so eager to get them killed.

    If the world has to end because some joker decides to burn a book, then it must be because God intended it.

    Klein, your God must be turning in his grave.

  • 0

    RomeoRamenII

    it still doesn't take away from the fact that the man is knowingly doing something very evil in the eyes of Muslim culture.

    Except for the minor detail that what this preacher plans to do Saturday is totally legal under the provisions of the U.S. Constitution. If the "Muslim culture" is soooo repulsed by this act, they are welcome to burn Bibles to express their outrage. They can even throw in a few Beatles albums, too, since John Lennon once said they were bigger than Jesus Christ.

    RR

  • 0

    SezWho2

    SuperLib: Well now some people will better understand the concept of "legally within his rights" vs. "poor taste."

    I think there's a difference between allegations of poor taste and poor taste. And there's a difference between poor taste and idiocy. And there's certainly a difference between building a cultural center and burning a Q'uran.

    I don't for one minute believe that Islam is the devil's religion. But once we hold that it's OK for cartoonists to mock the prophet, I don't see that there is any substantial reason to wring our hands over an idiot burning a holy book. Let him burn it and let people see that in America he is free to do so and that our government does not approve.

    Jones is not going to put the troops in any significant danger. The previous President already did that and the troops will remain endangered until such time that they either go home or that their battlegrounds become stable client states.

    The rest of us might not want to vacation in Pakistan, though.

  • 0

    WilliB

    sunjovi:

    " Come on there are millions of copy of quaran everywhere. Dont be panic for one weird person act. "

    Tell that to the islamists! This is of course wonderful fodder for the hate preachers; have you not wondered how these excited Afghanis would normally not be able to find Florida on a map are suddenly all provided with photos of the nutcase preacher?

    smithjapan:

    " WilliB: "Were the Buddhist riots and death threats when the Taliban blew up the Bahmian Buddhas in Afghanistan?" This doesn't make sense, Willi, grammatically or otherwise. "

    Can it be so hard to recognize that "the" was a typo for "there"?

  • 0

    Sunjovi

    Ok if some idiots plans to burn Bible in middle east what you gonna do then. Smoke all islamist..... Think again, for me i will only laugh on his mere stupid act. Coz you cannot burn the symbol inside our heart. Its like punching a poster of some enemy attached in a punching bag.

  • 0

    MistWizard

    Jones said he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip.

    Afraid to go to heaven too soon? Or hell? Should such an obvious whack-job have the right to carry a gun on his hip? I think round the clock body-guards would be acceptable though.

  • 0

    miyazawa3

    Insulting publicly to one of the major Religions on earth. Nobody will tolerate this in a highly civilized enviorment US . The Demon Head of the church should be Arested put in cage, before muslims punish him .

  • 0

    bass4funk

    This shows how it's actually impossible to be a true Christian and follow the teachings of the Bible. This guy is clearly picking the teachings of the Bible and ignoring the bits he doesn't like.

    As do many radical Muslims. No difference! The guy is obviously a "moon bat", but I just don't like the hypocrisy that when Christians burn a Qu'ran its blasphemous, but if Muslims persecute Christians it is acceptable. These kind of acts should be condemned by all rational thinking people. Crazy as this guy is, by our Constitution, he has the freedom and the right to express his feelings and viewpoints, even if they are radical, again, both sides do this and as long as they don't threaten or try to use physical violence.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I also found it strange on how adamant he was that the "message" needs to be send to radical Muslims but than carries a gun.

    Let me guess he don't care how many people he will upset but when someone comes knocking they will only find dust-tracks.

  • 0

    WilliB

    sunjobi:

    " Ok if some idiots plans to burn Bible in middle east what you gonna do then. Smoke all islamist..... "

    That is precisely the difference. Symbols of other religions are routinely vandalized in the islamic world, but Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahis, Sikhs, etc. do not react with death threats.

    Do likewise to the Koran, and the world-wide riots and very serious death threats are guaranteed.

    See the wonderful balance here?

  • 0

    Teachmeteachyou

    The idea that this puts the troops in danger is really moral blackmail- private citizens don't need to change their beliefs to support military adventures, wherever they be. When will the likes of Petraeus speak up for all the Christians being persecuted in Iraq and Afghanistan under his watch? The answer is he or Obama won't, as it simply isn't central to their military objectives in which they see minorities as pawns to be sacrificed for the 'great game'.

    Now this isn't to say what this loony is doing is in any way rational or constructive- it will certainly hurt people's feeling and endanger the Christians in muslim lands even more. Riling up the very violent Islamisists makes no sense. He's not so much being violent as being foolish- as it's quite obvious what the result will be, as we've seen it all before. I actually hope he changes his mind. I also hope that radical Islam collapses from it's own pointlessness and equal rights are extended throughout the so- called 'Islamic World', and also that intolerance there is as widely reported in the media as this is. Shaming them into decency makes more sense to me than pouring oil on a fire, that sadly keeps burning as we speak.

  • 0

    peachy871

    This shows how it's actually impossible to be a true Christian and follow the teachings of the Bible. This guy is clearly picking the teachings of the Bible and ignoring the bits he doesn't like.

    As do many radical Muslims. No difference! The guy is obviously a "moon bat", but I just don't like the hypocrisy that when Christians burn a Qu'ran its blasphemous, but if Muslims persecute Christians it is acceptable.

    When did folks ever find that acceptable? It is completely unacceptable on both sides of the coin.

    These kind of acts should be condemned by all rational thinking people.

    These kinds of acts are.

    The man simply is not a true Christian. He may follow his Church but he doesn't follow Christ or any of Christ's teachings. Radical Christians are very similar to radical Muslims; they may not use the physical violence but they still employ and spread hate and are in no way representative of those who really understand the word of the teachings of their religion.

  • 0

    LIBERTAS

    A society that tolerates burning of books is one which, in America's case, has already accepted the burning of people. The loud shouts of "Rah Rah Rah!" at burning of this book; I wonder how they'd react to Bible burning, or, preferably Talmud burning? Given that all three emerged from Semitic peoples, at whom would they point the finger and shout that meaningless epithet now?

    The Quran, according to Jones, is “evil” because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

    Really? The Qu'ran is accepting of Biblical truths, unlike the Talmud. And it is radical Christianity and Judeofascism which is wreaking havoc around the world, not Islam. I guess stupid is as stupid does.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    LRFA - make you a deal. Offer a point, then we can all shoot it down as usual.

    It's the media making up a scandal. No one takes this guy seriously. Even some of the usual left-wing radicals here are saying the same thing.

  • 0

    sailwind

    I do have to question how some small potatoes Preacher who by all accounts is a fringe nutbag, even the article states so:

    In this progressive Florida city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache is mostly seen as a fringe character who doesn’t deserve special attention.

    Is all of the sudden splashed all over the world wide media? I can only guess its because the world media wants to see riots, bloodshed, and ant-American fervor. That kind of stuff sells papers so why not pluck this loon out from underneath the rock he has been living and jump up and down on the Anti-American bandwagon and make a big deal out of him?

    I mean this nut is straight from Liberal Central casting:

    From the South...Check Bible Thumper... Check Gun Nut......... Check White Male...... Check Obvious Bigot... Check

    Heck, tie this clown into somehow into the Tea Party and score a trifecta. No wonder the media is all over this fool. The sad part is this story should have never made past the Gainesville local paper and then only a one paragraph on page 32 'Gadfly Preacher Is At It Again With latest Stunt'....and be done with it.

    Thanks MSM for giving the good pastor his undeserved and nauseating 15 minutes of fame.

  • 0

    WilliB

    sailwind:

    " Thanks MSM for giving the good pastor his undeserved and nauseating 15 minutes of fame. "

    Remember how the MSM helpe whipping up islamist frenzy over the Abu Graib pictures? First, the provoce as much as possible, then they relish the riots. Western Mainstream Media and islamist hate preachers -- best of friends.

    Of course, once the islamists take over, the MSM journalists are the first fools to be led to gallows; what a wonderful irony.

  • 0

    WilliB

    LIBERTAS:

    " I wonder how they'd react to Bible burning, or, preferably Talmud burning? "

    Yes, how would they? Excellent question. I bet they would NOT react with riots and death threats, up to the farthest corners of the earth.

    Remember when then the PLO occupied the church of nativity in Bethlehem? They used bibles for toilet paper. Do you remember any riots and death threats throughout the world?

  • 0

    MistWizard

    Teachmeteachyou said: The idea that this puts the troops in danger is really moral blackmail- private citizens don't need to change their beliefs to support military adventures, wherever they be.

    No one is saying he has to change his beliefs. Some might say he has to shut his face and cease his provacative activities for the sake of the war effort though. Most are not even saying that, though it has been done in the past.

  • 0

    Sarge

    "doing so ( burning copies of the Koran/Quran ) could endanger U.S. troops and Americans everywhere"

    What, because one guy ticked off by Islam in a particular country does something Islamists consider offensive, all citizens of that country are legitimate targets for assassination/torture?

    Heck, we had several Islamists from Saudi Arabia fly planes into buildings and into the ground, killing thousands, but all Saudi citizens are not considered legitimate targets for assassination/torture.

  • 0

    Beelzebub

    It takes no courage to burn a Quran in Florida. Let the Gainesville PD notify him that he is not eligible for police protection, and see how long he lasts.

  • 0

    buzzyboy

    Those who burn books eventually burn people...cf. medieval/spanish/and roman inquisition, protestant germany circa 1550, Nazi germany, etc.....not to even mention North Korea or the Soviet Union. He has the RIGHT to burn it, but morally is this something that the Christian religion advocates or even tolerates? disgraceful!

  • 0

    SezWho2

    sailwind: The sad part is this story should have never made past the Gainesville local paper and then only a one paragraph on page 32 'Gadfly Preacher Is At It Again With latest Stunt'....and be done with it. Thanks MSM for giving the good pastor his undeserved and nauseating 15 minutes of fame.

    You seem to be blaming liberals for making an issue of this. However, it strikes me that if one were to look for someone obnoxious enough, one might just find someone who is so perfervidly anti-Muslim that even mainstream America would wince.

    Now who would want to prove that the good citizens of the US are not prejudiced against Muslims?

    Not saying this is so. Just saying there's more than one possibility here.

  • 0

    blvtzpk

    Moderators: I urge you purge the expression "ground Zero victory mosque" or "GZ victory mosque" from certain posts. This fabrication adds nothing to the discussion.

  • 0

    yabits

    Now who would want to prove that the good citizens of the US are not prejudiced against Muslims?

    In a January 2010 survey taken by the Gallup organization, 43% of Americans admitted to feeling at least some prejudice towards Muslims. (Source: Christian Science Monitor, September 6.)

  • 0

    yabits

    What, because one guy ticked off by Islam in a particular country does something Islamists consider offensive, all citizens of that country are legitimate targets for assassination/torture?

    Put that on the stack with the NY stabbing, mosque arsons, the NY Islamic center issue and all its anti-Islamic rhetoric, Abu Ghraib, stomping on and throwing Korans in the toilet at Gitmo (as reported by Al-Jazeera and several other European sources, based on reports from those released), and reports that nearly half of all Americans feel prejudice towards those of the Muslim faith.

    And now add this "person of religion" to the stack. (Nobody expects you to understand, Sarge, even if the words come from General Petraeus himself.)

  • 0

    Sarge

    Moderators: I urge you to continue to allow the expression "victory mosque" - it expresses the feelings of people who feel outrage at having a mosque built at Ground Zero where thousands died in an attack in the name of Islam.

  • 0

    Sarge

    yabits, I have no beef with General Petraeus. I have a beef with Islamists who consider any American, including yourself, apparently, a legitimate target for assassination/torture because of one American burning some books.

  • 0

    Noliving

    Well, I always had little respect for any religion that allows for a simple confession as a way to wipe away your sins and crimes (no matter how serious it may be) and allow you to enter heaven

    That is not how it works, you have to repent not just confess for your sins and you can't ever do those sins again, if you do the forgiveness you are given is taken away.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Sarge, I think the reason that blvtzpk urgest the deletion of this expression is that it is prejudicial and false. There is no proclamation of victory, no death in the name of Islam, no mosque on Ground Zero, and, as a matter of fact, there is no mosque. There is a cultural center which will serve all faiths and in which there will be a mosque. However, a mosque is nothing but a place--not even a building--where a Muslim offers prayers toward Mecca. And those prayers are already offered there, I believe.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Yabits: Put that on the stack with the NY stabbing, mosque arsons, the NY Islamic center issue and all its anti-Islamic rhetoric, Abu Ghraib, stomping on and throwing Korans in the toilet at Gitmo (as reported by Al-Jazeera and several other European sources, based on reports from those released), and reports that nearly half of all Americans feel prejudice towards those of the Muslim faith.

    Who do you hate more...Americans or Muslims?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    RRII: To answer your silly question about Obama before, here's a quotation from another article on the web:

    "The White House and the State Department have also issued stern warnings, making it clear Obama's administration deplored the plan."

    So there you go, you either support Obama on this, or support this pastor. I'm curious as to which it is. So much for your foolish question of whether Obama would 'support it' or not, eh? Hope you didn't step in anything too dirty before inserting the foot.

    "If the "Muslim culture" is soooo repulsed by this act, they are welcome to burn Bibles to express their outrage."

    Except that you would throw a fit and say things like, "See!" as your concrete defense. And it's truly a shame I have to explain this to you, but burning a bible is not quite the same in the eyes of Christians as burning the Quran is in the eyes of a Muslim; that doesn't mean the Muslim is more childish, it means the person intentionally burning the Quran is more childish, for they are intentionally doing what they know to be offensive and hurtful. It's not an even-Steven thing, my friend. It's seriously embarrassing that I have to educate you on these kind of grade-school morals.

    sarge: "Moderators: I urge you to continue to allow the expression "victory mosque" - it expresses the feelings of people who feel outrage at having a mosque built at Ground Zero where thousands died in an attack in the name of Islam."

    Sorry, sarge, but I have to point out your typo... you need to insert 'misplaced' between "feel" and "anger" in the second line of your comment -- because that's what it is, misplaced anger. You need to suck it up, fella, and realize that Islam is not the problem, but the people who radically interpret it one way or the other that are the problem -- and that includes people like yourself. THAT is not misdirected, it's fact. There is no difference between someone who says all Americans should be killed based on the Quran, and an American who says all Muslims should be killed based on said interpretation of the Quran, save that it is an immature, uneducated, and very dangerous response.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    SuperLib: "Who do you hate more...Americans or Muslims?"

    You win for stupidest question of... well... for a long time.

    I suppose you didn't take a split-second to even thing that perhaps there are Muslim Americans? Or do you just consider all believers of Islam to be non-American? Well... there goes any little credibility you had left, my friend.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    sarge: "Heck, we had several Islamists from Saudi Arabia fly planes into buildings and into the ground, killing thousands, but all Saudi citizens are not considered legitimate targets for assassination/torture."

    No kidding? Oh yeah! They were relatives of the former president's friends. Forgot about that, but thanks for reminding me. I guess he locked them all up and declared war on Saudi Arabia, then. Oops! No, he let them fly home while all flights were grounded, and declared war on a nation that had little or nothing to do with it... soon after to declare ANOTHER war on a nation that had NOTHING to do with it, but that he claimed did. You see where extremism in any case gets you? NOWHERE... and fast. Instead of considering the Saudi targets for torture, he legalized torture for those in Iraq/Afghanistan; instead of legalizing assassination of those in Saudi (whom you yourself said attacked), didn't he justify 'preemptive strike (ie. assassination)' to go into other nations?

    I don't mean to dredge up the past, but since you are, I thought I might just give you a little tap to point out your hypocrisy. My guess is the blinders are back on for you, but others will see it. You cannot judge the Quran and Islam for the acts of a few; you CAN judge this man for what he out and out says he's going to do based on HIS misinterpretations.

  • 0

    lemur

    "Books are burning / In the main square / And I saw there / The fire eating the text // Books are burning / In the still air / And you know where / They burn books / People are next."

    Andy Partridge, XTC

    The sage of Swindon goes on to lament not only the loss of wisdom contained in books burned, but the fact that people can easily retreat to a state where they do not forgive ideas that are contrary to their own. In this sense, both the misguided pastor and the fundamentalists who would cry for his blood (or that of any of his countrymen) are cut from the same cloth. Indeed, such men of the cloth would have you believe they are worldly and compassionate, when really they are fearful, insecure bullies. I myself would like to see a world where people wouldn't raise more than an eyebrow if the books representing the knowledge they trusted were burned in front of them. Much like if a Creationist burned a quantum physics textbook: The physicist would only say, "I appreciate the statement, but it doesn't change the truth." How many representatives of religion could be so confident? Precious few, I believe.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    smithinjapan at 12:22 AM JST - 9th September and declared war on a nation that had little or nothing to do with it

    The Taliban were not in control of Afghanistan? The Taliban were not supporting Al Qaeda and providing them refuge? The Taliban did not REFUSE to hand Bin Ladin over to the US?

  • 0

    tigermoth

    While I can see in practice why this is such an inflammatory act, it is after all just some cheaply printed copies bought likely on the Internet. It's not like he's burning copies of historical significance, or those that have been blessed or are somehow 'holy'. I suppose religion assumes that all books containing there 'words of truth', 'gospel' - whatever - are sacred, but that seems rather silly.

    It hearkens back to my university days. We used to have a communal post office and the Mormons or some group would stand outside and hand out those little pocket bibles to all of the students. I don't think it an exaggeration to say that the majority of these ended up in the trash can and eventually the landfill. While non-religious I did look at mine and give some pause before tossing it in the can, and later I asked others if they felt guilty for doing so. The consensus was 'no, it's just a small purpose printed book'. Even those of the faith threw them away. Not an open act of disrespect or sacrilege. They were just not needed as those that believed already had their own, and those that did not didn't want them. They print up tons of these things and have to know that a large percentage goes in the dumpster.

    The point is that the message of a religion and the tenants therein should be with the believer. It seems the book itself should be meant for reference and learning those tenants, not really an embodiment of the religion itself. These aren't hand-written copies from a wise sage, but mass produced copies likely printed in China or something. Rather than see it as a call to arms for radical or even not so radical followers of Islam to go on a killing spree, see it for what it is - some hill-williams burning some cheaply printed copies of a book. He's much too stupid to understand the meaning behind the book as he doesn't even understand the meaning of the one he claims to follow. Therefore he cannot burn the philosophy that he doesn't understand, but rather a paper representation.

  • 0

    tigermoth

    Lemur - totally off the point, but XTC and Andy Partridge are my sage and bible. Best band to ever exist in my humble opinion.

  • 0

    yabits

    I have a beef with Islamists who consider any American, including yourself, apparently, a legitimate target for assassination/torture because of one American burning some books.

    If most Americans consider (or even give others the impression) that the Koran is just "some book" worthy of burning and desecration, they make themselves legitimate targets -- certainly once they leave the shores of America and try to plant themselves in places where such acts carry heavy consequences. Many people in the world simply don't understand the difference between supporting someone's right to do something and support for the act itself.

    You might whine and wish it otherwise, but that is reality.

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    XTC and Andy Partridge are my sage and bible

    Burn them!!!

  • 0

    kyushujoe

    @tigermoth

    The point is that the message of a religion and the tenants therein should be with the believer. It seems the book itself should be meant for reference and learning those tenants, not really an embodiment of the religion itself.

    you obviously have a brain and the ability to think independently. You are therefore a thousand times too intelligent to be posting here.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    I have to come down on the US govt side on this one. As much as I can appreciate the desire to burn the Koran, there really isn't much benefit gained from it besides maybe "feeling good". More importantly we do have a number of countries that are allied with us, to varying degrees which are muslim nations. Nothing is gained from pissing them off either, it hinders our agenda.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    This thread has proven that the terrorist have won. The bleeding heart liberals are so shit scared that they are afraid of what radical islamists may do that they want to deny this weirdo his right to express his opinion. He is not advocating killing all muslims. He is only sending the radicals a message. We are not afraid of you and meet your challenge. I am not into bowing down and treating islam with kid gloves because I am afraid of what they might do to me. It's them that will have to "suck it up".

    If I drew some pictures and labeled them "Mohammed" should all Canadians be killed? Or all North Americans? Or all Christians? Of course not. But the Islamic world needs to grow up and suck up as much as they want us to suck up. It's time to stand united with guys like this to show that the more they don't want us to do something the more we will do it. Did we start a war with them because of Buddhist statues they destroyed? No. We didn't like it but we didn't start attacking muslims in our countries. We were more mature about it. But we have been victims of their imbecile immature way of thinking for so long all being condemned for the actions or words of so few. This is more proof of it. You are all cowering in a corner because now you are afraid of what might happen. And funny how it sometimes comes from the same ones that tell us that there is no problem with Islam. Funny doesn't look like there is no problem. It's rather serious isn't it? Stop cowering and start standing up to it.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Yes. Clearly any objection to book burning means that the terrorist have won.

  • 0

    squaremarble

    Yes. Clearly any objection to book burning means that the terrorist have won.

    Triumvere

    I haven't seen anyone say what you wrote but I have seen people suggest that yielding to threats of violence is what the terrorist want. Naturally, if a person is a terrorist and they get what they want over someone elses objection, the terrorist wins.

  • 0

    yabits

    But the Islamic world needs to grow up and suck up as much as they want us to suck up. It's time to stand united with guys like this to show that the more they don't want us to do something the more we will do it.

    They really, really don't want you to burn a Quran in Saudi Arabia.

    So, when are you scheduling your flight? Are you going to stay here cowering in North America (or wherever you're hiding behind a keyboard), or are you going to meet the cause of getting the Islamic world to "grow up" head on, right in their own backyard?

  • 0

    SuperLib

    SuperLib: "Who do you hate more...Americans or Muslims?"

    SmithinJapan: You win for stupidest question of... well... for a long time.

    It's OK. The question just sailed well over your head is all. Not that uncommon.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Yabits: Many people in the world simply don't understand the difference between supporting someone's right to do something and support for the act itself.

    So let's start changing some minds.

  • 0

    ubikwit

    Burning books, especially books revered by the believers of any religion is a paltry and despicable act that displays the Neanderthal propensities of the so-called religious people that are planning to perpetrate the act. not only does it draw into question the relation of the religion professed by these book-burning sociopaths, but also the relationship of religion to hate, as this is surely a hateful act. And since hate represents irreconcilable divisions, if it can be fostered in order to create such divisions, i.e., in a divide-and -conquer modus operandi, then what is the purpose, or the effect, at any rate, of religion here? Who are these people using religion as a tool to divide people instead of bringing to light shared commonalities among humanity? Not only are they trying to burn books, but these people are trying to both obliterate the possibility of anything that might be called a true religion, as well as the ability of people of different religions to interact with each other in a civil manner.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Ya know, in one respect, this preacher has things right. The Islamic world is intolerant, and reactionary. A part of me thinks, everyone should regularly draw mohammed, draw cartoons of him, or burn korans. Not because its a good thing to do, but rather so the Islamic nutcases froth at the mouth and die from the outrage of it all. I also find the double standard here disturbing. People have no problem with the idea of disrespecting christians, and christianity, but islam, no not that. Not sure why that is, other then fear. Thats why we have to allow the victory mosque, thats why we have to stop people from doing anything that offends muslims. Honestly, this constant bowing down to all things muslim, really does need to stop. As does the irrational violent overreaction by muslims whenever someone disrespects their beliefs. I just wish some idiot down in Florida, didn't feel the need to make this point by burning a holy book.

  • 0

    tigermoth

    Actually my bet is that such burnings have already happened at churches - particularly in the south - and it simply hasn't been advertised or made national news. I lived for some time in the south and remember a friend telling me her mother had gone to a Baptist 'book and record burning'. It wasn't exactly made public with posters and fanfare, just something they got together and did. Very scary stuff goes on all the time, this freak just happened to make the news. If you notice in one video the cross on the church is broken - maybe they should have a fundraiser to fix that before they buy a bunch of Qu'rans to burn.

  • 0

    yabits

    You say this: "A part of me thinks, everyone should regularly draw mohammed, draw cartoons of him, or burn korans. Not because its a good thing to do"

    Then you say this: "People have no problem with the idea of disrespecting christians, and christianity..."

    How can people respect those who call themselves "christian" who advocate doing stuff mentioned in the first quote? And you need to be corrected: There are extremely few people who disrespect true Christianity. This Florida pastor, for example, is no true Christian -- and deserves all the disrespect he has coming to him.

    Even you refer to him as an "idiot."

  • 0

    yabits

    This little tidbit about "Pastor" Jones is making the news:

    "We are surprised and shocked at the extreme radicalism being displayed [by Jones] right now on this issue," Stephan Baar of the Christian Community of Cologne told the Associated Press. The 60-member church kicked out Jones in 2008. Jones' estranged daughter says the eviction arose from her father's reported penchant for dipping into the church's till to pay his own expenses."

  • 0

    squaremarble

    Jones is not going to put the troops in any significant danger.

    SezWho2

    This is an oversimplification of reality. The troops have not had a "Club Med" experience up until this incident. The troops are in a war zone and have been in significant danger as long as they have been in Iraq and Afghanistan. This pastor's actions, no matter how wrong headed, will have minimum influence on events in the war zones. If you haven’t noticed, many people don’t need this pastor to provide a reason to hate America.

    Many people that post here argued vehemently against those who protested against the building of the mosque near ground zone on “legal grounds”. Well, here is the chance for those people to not be considered hypocrites. Where are the vehemently legal arguments for this American's Constitution rights?

  • 0

    SezWho2

    squaremarble: This pastor's actions, no matter how wrong headed, will have minimum influence on events in the war zones. If you haven’t noticed, many people don’t need this pastor to provide a reason to hate America.

    I think that is what I said. If you are unclear about that, perhaps you should read my post again.

    I'm not sure what you are talking about when you refer to people arguing against people who protested the building of the mosque on "legal grounds". There are no legal grounds for protest. I believe the gist of the protest was on grounds of "bad taste".

    However, my point was that I'm quite happy to let Jones be as stupid as he wants to be in this matter. I don't believe that his stupidity will add appreciably to the danger to the troops. And I don't believe that Petraeus necessarily thinks so either. I do think, however, that Petraeus is part of a concerted government effort to distance the itself from this lunatic.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    mikehuntez: This thread has proven that the terrorist have won. The bleeding heart liberals are so shit scared that they are afraid of what radical islamists may do that they want to deny this weirdo his right to express his opinion. He is not advocating killing all muslims. He is only sending the radicals a message.

    Shall we assume that by "bleeding heart liberals" you are referring also to General Petraeus? If anyone is afraid of what radical Muslims might do, my money would be on the folks who have a prejudice against Muslims or against Islam.

    I doubt that Jones is sending a message to radical Muslims. I think it much more likely that his audience is domestic. However, if his message is only to radical Muslims, he needs a different delivery system--one that doesn't deliver junk mail to the mailbox of every Muslim on the planet and instruct them that their religion is of the devil.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Even you refer to him as an "idiot."

    He is an idiot. Anyone who goes around disrespecting anothers religion, be it burning bibles, torahs, or korans is an idiot. That said, the violent overreaction by the Muslims creates terror, and yet also encourages people to provoke them. Indeed, if there wasn't such a violent temper tantrum by the muslims, I would condemn this guy completely.

    When I was a kid, my older brother and I would frequently fight over things. He would have something I wanted, and would torture me over it, taunting me about it. My parents reaction, they gave him a light smack on the butt, told him not to tease his younger brother. Me, they smacked on the butt, and sent to bed without supper. The point of this, for me, like my parents at the time, its much worse to throw a tantrum over some little thing. Seeing Muslims and their frothing at the mouth, makes me want to do what I would otherwise normally never do. Draw a picture of Mohammed, call my dog Mohammed and post pics of it. Idiotic stuff like this. I'm a mature adult, and I won't act on these feelings, but its that kind of attitude, that makes me want to smack them upside the head with something that offends them more. To do so repeatedly until they realize, like I did a long time ago, screaming and carrying on doesn't get you your way. Use reason, and logic, and appeal to peoples better nature, and you can frequently get what you want. I learned that lesson as a kid. Its time Muslims learned it as well.

    That said, I think the preacher ought to get a smack on the butt and told not to torment the Muslims.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Here is my personal view.

    I have no problems if he wants to burn a Quran as part of his Sermon, etc.

    Where I think he stepped over the line is by announcing publicly that he will hold a big public book-burning and asking people to partake in it.

    As was said other churches have done it but kept it low-key and didn't call it an "INTERNATIONAL" event and advertise it globally. Only reason why he called it as such as he wanted the attention, IMHO.

    Fire Department already denied him permission to hold the event.

    Reading details about him also makes me wonder about his mental well-being.

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    Molenir,

    "Honestly, this constant bowing down to all things muslim, really does need to stop. As does the irrational violent overreaction by muslims whenever someone disrespects their beliefs. I just wish some idiot down in Florida, didn't feel the need to make this point by burning a holy book."

    I agree with this 100%. Well said.

  • 0

    skipbeat

    manfromamerica: It would be one thing if the Pope, or Jerry Falwell, or some major evangelical leader were to do this.

    BTW, Jerry Falwell pass away in 2007.

    What about the message that Muslim/radical Muslim should not condemn the rest of the U.S. because this is just about one person action who does not represent the country. If people can't distinguished the differences between one man action and the rest then people are letting their anger blind them in making good judgment as to this issue.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    See, here's the thing. Fundamentalism is just plain dangerous whichever form it takes. This guy is no less dangerous, militant or provocative than the fundamentalist Muslims that take up arms. The difference is that he gets to go home at night to a warm cozy lounge room with a nice TV set in front of the fire, and sleep in a cozy bed. He gets coffee and donuts on the way to work in the morning and listens to hammy radio stations play his favorite tunes on the way there. He doesn't have to endure military, social and political oppression like the folk, say, in the Gaza Strip do each day of their lives. Or those in occupied Iraq, who suffered for years under Hussein, then the US/British, and the foreign occupation they now endure. Or those who live in a country which has had parts of it's sovereign land taken by it's neighbor who is backed by a world superpower that forms a hostile and belligerent partnership unwilling to compromise their stance. Nope, ignorance sure is blissful.

  • 0

    flamnhead

    Some where, some extreme religious faction is burning something. Muslims have scorched children, women, and towns. Christians have burned witches, literature, and anything else unholy. The scariest part is that people follow and obey these religious radical leaders that are completely nuts. I mean look at that pastor and tell me he doesn't look the part. If he can convince others to do his bidding then for a moment realize his underlings must be a mess. There are thousands of these leaders and millions of underlings.

    So there is never going to be any respect between these two religions. They exist to offend each other constantly. Just like the religious wars in early Europe.

    So sit back, grab some popcorn and let the perpetual hate fly. Bring it on!

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Does America have a law against "Inciting hatred/racism?". I think this guy could be getting close to being nailed by one if it existed.

    Many countries have such laws. Freedom of Speech is only guaranteed/reasonable so far.

  • 0

    Gurukun

    That said, I think the preacher ought to get a smack on the butt and told not to torment the Muslims.

    If he keeps this up, he might get more than smacked in the butt. That whole congregation just might mysteriously disappear.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Still, when taken in the context of history this is nothing new. I am sorry to say, but history backs this up with uncounted examples, but relgiion is a form of human madness on all sides. It continually drives people towards violence, hatred and insane acts of superstitious madness.

    How many lives have been lost to religious conflict? How many more ruined in some way? And how many lives have been lived in fear because of actions motivated by religion?

    This pastor, the radicals who inspired his hatred, those who will respond and many more are only the recent examples of why humanity would be far better off without relgion.

    We can have morality, social order, compassion, charity, hope and humanity through secular morality just as much as through religious morality. And we can have those benefits without the superstitious zeal that so often corrupts the better intentions of religion and turns them to division and darkness.

    In the end, I blame the human need for superstition as the cause of far too many of our problems.

  • 0

    ulysses

    "Koran Burning Is Insensitive, Unnecessary; Pastor Jones, Please Stand Down." Palin writes that she hopes "Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event. It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance."

    So that makes Palin a "Bleeding heart liberal, leftist, communist, Islamic apologist" etc etc.

    Shame on you Sarah.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Tamarama - See, here's the thing. Fundamentalism is just plain dangerous whichever form it takes. This guy is no less dangerous, militant or provocative than the fundamentalist Muslims that take up arms.

    Er, no. Thats actually way off. You see, for the most part, fundamentalist christians don't go around murdering people. Oh you have a few nutjobs that bomb abortion clinics, but that happens much less frequently these days, and they immediately get denounced by everyone and tossed in jail for the rest of their lives. Contrast this with your Muslim fundamentalists. They go around murdering anyone who offends them, who contradicts them. Even other Muslims. They have created a climate of fear. So, is there a difference? Hell yes. One is just a nutjob, the other is a nutjob who will kill you if you disagree with him.

    Zenny11 - Does America have a law against "Inciting hatred/racism?". I think this guy could be getting close to being nailed by one if it existed.

    Fortunately, no. Freedom of speech means, people can say really offensive things, and you can't touch them. Of course you don't have to listen to them, participate, or give them any notice at all either. And, if they work for you, not the government, but for you, you don't have to employ them, or give them business.

  • 0

    TheRat

    Extremists go hand in hand. This is Al-Quaida's best friend. They must be jumping for joy. But, keep in mind guys, that this guy is promoting his crap book. It is all about publicity. All of this right-wing stuff (attention getting) is a franchise, book deals, videos, movies, and politics. And the thing is, to get attention, you have to do something CRAZIER than what was done before as "been there, done that" does not warrant any new attention. As the guy is a loser (a church of 50 in Gainesville--I studied there, and it was/is a pit of a place), I can think that he must be over-joyed that the UN Secretary General, German Chancellor, Secretary of State Clinton are all talking about him. So, after this, there will be more book burnings. And then they will move up to the next notch of intolerance. Never mind people might die as a result of this. NO PROBLEM, for the right-winger. They are terrified, terrified I say, of the withdrawal from the Mid-East as their hoped for Apocalypse and Jesus coming down from the Skies might be canceled. They need a war going. And this is one way of keeping the flames burning. Plus, they make a lot of cash too! There is a sucker born every minute. I hope he is arrested for the burning violation if he does it outdoors. Laws are laws!

  • 0

    TheRat

    "Honestly, this constant bowing down to all things muslim, really does need to stop.

    Hey rightwinger Molenir. Why don't you burn that Koran too! Let's see how that would TURN out for you. Wonder how long you would keep your job in Japan, because here, it is WA, the harmony that is all important instead of your flipping crazy-ass views. Just wondering if you got the gonads to do it. Easy to run your mouth you know.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    So that makes Palin a "Bleeding heart liberal, leftist, communist, Islamic apologist" etc etc.

    ulysses, why is that? Just curious if you know the point you are failing to make? :-)

  • 0

    tkoind2

    Molenir: "fundamentalist christians don't go around murdering people." There are many modern examples of Christians killing off the locals who are of other faiths. And too many historical examples to even begin to list here.

    The vast majority of Islamic followers are as peaceful as any other faith. You just focus on the tiny few who are violent. Like saying all the right wing Christian nut jobs in Eastern Washington, you know the Nazi Christians, are representative of all Christians. Any such generalizations are absurd.

    And as for climates of fear. I think our Christian and Jewish worlds have created as much fear as any Muslim state. Ask the people of Iraq and Afghanistan what fear feels like. Talk to the people of Palestine or Lebanon. I think you will find a lot of people who question the goodness of the Christian world.

  • 0

    yasukuni

    The guy is pathetic. There is no good reason for him to do what he plans on doing. It won't help anyone. He is in fact doing something that really could have repurcussions, and other people might end up paying for his nastiness.

    But, on the other hand, let's look at this. People in other countries and the US often burn flags, books, effigies etc, and yes, Muslim extremists in some countries don't burn bibles but they burn the whole church down and kill the people.

    And if one two bit hick preacher with 50 people in a church not associated with any denomination can cause Muslims anywhere to even consider violence against anyone other than the preacher himself, then the world really is in big trouble. And that is in fact the situation we have now.

    The best way Muslim extremists can prove that Islam is peaceful, is to lodge peaceful protests against this guy. He's a crazy nasty man, but there are always going to be people like him somewhere in the world.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    Wonder how long you would keep your job in Japan, because here, it is WA, the harmony that is all important instead of your flipping crazy-ass views.

    Really??? We'd get fired for burning a Koran??? lol...

    Just wondering if you got the gonads to do it. Easy to run your mouth you know.

    WOW! Tough guy!! LOL

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    It's the media's irresponsibility that they are taking a backwater preacher with a handful of followers and making him international news continuously every day. If he wasn't put on TV, no one would know about it, especially the normal Muslims who the Left here seem to think will suddenly erupt into violent jihadists instead of recognizing it's one lone nutcase, much like they have in every culture.

  • 0

    TheRat

    's the media's irresponsibility that they are taking a backwater preacher with a handful of followers and making him international news continuously every day.

    You mean to say that right-wing TV like FOX is not eating this up! You mean to say that they are irresponsible? Really? They feed on crazy ass stuffy like this. Without it, what is there in right-wing world other than to say NO to new infrastructure, NO to Wall Street reform, and NO to and end of wars.

  • 0

    ulysses

    ulysses, why is that? Just curious if you know the point you are failing to make? :-)

    Are you just acting dumb or have I been overestimating here?

  • 0

    tkoind2

    I sometimes think about starting a religion. There are so many sheep just waiting for someone to follow. All you need is a good story to ease the fear of death and to make people feel special. Then the followers will come, blindly allowing anyone with an easy to understand and a little myserious message. If you can make them afraid or focus their frustrations and anger, all the better, they will follow you with more zeal and money.

    But I can't start a religion. I would not be able to live with myself. Even with the money it would surely bring. I just can't morally lead people down a path towards idiocy. I wish more people had this trigger inside to keep them from causing the world so much trouble.

  • 0

    Frungy

    Let him burn whatever he wants, whether it's the koran, the bible, the american flag, or Barney the dinosaur effigies (I'd join him if it was Barney). The simple fact is that they bought or were given those Korans and they're now their property to do with as they want.

    Sure I don't think it's right to make a big thing out of burning Korans, it's deliberately provocative, but if these guys were using pages from the Koran to make their home-made roll-up cigarettes I wouldn't have an issue, because the book belongs to them and they're free to use it in any way they see fit.

    The real problem here is that there are threats of violence against these guys for doing what they want on private property with their own belongings. If they were having a barbeque you wouldn't see the Hindus threatening to kill them all for burning Holy Cow would you? No, you wouldn't, in fact the entire idea is ridiculous... just as ridiculous as some religious extremist threatening to kill someone else because of what they chose to do with a book they owned. This isn't about religion, it's about property rights and the right of private individuals to dispose of their private property as they see fit.

    ... although on a side note I think they should just delete e-copies or vandalise the wikipedia article on the Koran or something because burning books has a fairly heavy CO2 price tag (dead trees for paper, transporting the paper, energy used in printing, then wood for the fire). Not very environmentally friendly.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Frungy.

    I am with you that Barney is EVIL, as are Care-bears, My Little Pony, etc.

    Not sure if we agree on the death-threats here, many seem to assume that ALL of them are from Muslims. Like I said before I can see many come from fellow Christians, War Veterans, etc.

    Also agree that it is the publicity that he wants for it that makes it bad. And that is the crux here not private property, he WANTS attention and he is using the thing right now that will get it(ie trying to upset Muslims).

    He is nothing more than an opportunist for me that adjust his agenda to the latest fad(if you wanna call it like that).

    Problem is that those guys tend to cause probs and ill-feelings.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Hey rightwinger Molenir. Why don't you burn that Koran too! Let's see how that would TURN out for you. Wonder how long you would keep your job in Japan, because here, it is WA, the harmony that is all important instead of your flipping crazy-ass views. Just wondering if you got the gonads to do it. Easy to run your mouth you know.

    Actually, I quit my job in Japan about 3 years ago, and moved back to the states. So thats not a problem for me. On the other hand, if I publicly announced that I was going to burn a koran, which btw I wouldn't do. But if I did, I'd probably lose my job, and the small business I run on the side, would struggle even more then it is. But the thing is, if I wanted to say it, I could say it. And you couldn't throw me in jail for it. You couldn't throw rocks at my house, without being arrested yourself. Thats freedom. However, doesn't matter where you live, freedom of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences.

    Let him burn whatever he wants, whether it's the koran, the bible, the american flag, or Barney the dinosaur effigies (I'd join him if it was Barney).

    Ooh, me too.

  • 0

    sarahsuz25

    I really have to laugh at these braindead morons who think they're making a statement by burning something that they've already bought. People around the country are going to bookstores and buying Korans to send to this guy, while at the same time financially supporting the publishers and bookstores who sell the Koran. It's just like the idiots who went out and bought copies of Harry Potter to burn, while JK Rowling laughed all the way to the bank. Or the morons who burned all their Beatles albums after John Lennon said they were bigger than Jesus. I'm sure they're kicking themselves now since they could have sold those albums for a nice profit.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    You mean to say that right-wing TV like FOX is not eating this up!

    I don't know, I live in Japan and do not get FOX. I watch CNN every days, and it was non-stop coverage about this stupid story.

  • 0

    Frungy

    sarahsuz25 at 12:05 PM JST - 9th September I really have to laugh at these braindead morons who think they're making a statement by burning something that they've already bought.

    Precisely. But for me the bottom line is that they bought it so they can do what they like with it. I mean if these Muslims had any sense they'd be selling this guy their excess copies and then change the headline from "Christian pastor burns Quran" to "Christian pastor donates $10 000 to Islam".

  • 0

    Tamarama

    @Molenir

    Er, no. Thats actually way off. You see, for the most part, fundamentalist christians don't go around murdering people. Oh you have a few nutjobs that bomb abortion clinics, but that happens much less frequently these days, and they immediately get denounced by everyone and tossed in jail for the rest of their lives.

    You seem to have missed my point. Christian history is full of well-documented murder in the name of God, as you well know. My point is that many of the Christian extremists, like the one mentioned in the U.S, live in comfortable, wealthy, stable community situations where their sense of survival, well-being and justice isn't threatened at all on a daily basis. But if they were in the reverse situation to many communities in the Muslim world, this sense of threat, when coupled with their Fundamentalist (Christian) belief has the potential to spur them to the same extremist actions. I honestly don't think some of them would behave any differently. So social conditions play a major part in determining how people react in certain situations; be you Christain, Jew or Gentile. Religeous intolerance only serves to divide and agitate.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    All said and done this Christian crackpot is a lot less harmless than the Muslim crackpots. I mean he's not putting a death sentence on an author for writing a book. He's not killing a publisher for printing a cartoon. He's not burning an effigy of Mohamed or any other country's leader or flag. He is burning a book that he believes causes hate so strong as to be used to justify killing and with his crackpot ways has proven it to be a sound belief. I say power to him. But I expect the "bleeding heart liberals" that is the ones that come here to always blame their own culture and appease the muslim culture, will be here constantly denouncing him much more than they would of the above examples. that is true political correctedness being carried to extremes. I'm laughing all the way.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    One question for the guys that say christians don't get upset. Below is a Video(myself like it. Watch at your own disgression: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKk00OYKhU&feature=related

    Now this is a Vid made by christians but how would it be received if it was shot in Baghdad and made by Muslims?

    This kinda puts the whole discussion into perspective for me. Not so muhc the act but does it.

  • 0

    KaptainKichigai

    @manfromamerica-Ulysses has no idea what point he is trying to make. Hes obviously some kid who recently saw the Hurt Locker and thinks its his duty to prattle insults anonymously whining about the dangers American soldiers face because he saw it in Green Zone.

  • 0

    enricopallazzio

    Burn baby, burn.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    Ulysses has no idea what point he is trying to make. Hes obviously some kid who recently saw the Hurt Locker and thinks its his duty to prattle insults anonymously whining about the dangers American soldiers face because he saw it in Green Zone.

    LOL!! Very true!

  • 0

    ulysses

    @manfromamerica-Ulysses has no idea what point he is trying to make. Hes obviously some kid who recently saw the Hurt Locker and thinks its his duty to prattle insults anonymously whining about the dangers American soldiers face because he saw it in Green Zone.

    Thank you Kaptain for your in-depth analysis.

    Your rant does nothing but reinforce your insensitivity to the lives of American soldiers. You are content with soldiers dying due to one deranged individual exercising his to expression.

    Since it is obvious who is the juvenile here, let me explain some reality to you.

    The fight with terrorism is not a game you play on your computer or cell-phone. You do not get extra lives by shooting down enemies and get to play another game when you lose one.

    Each soldier who goes to war has a family, friends, people who love him and will be devastated at his death.

    So stop belittling the dangers American soldiers face everyday and take your cowardly opinions to a forum matching your mental ability(or lack of it)

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    The fight with terrorism is not a game you play on your computer or cell-phone. You do not get extra lives by shooting down enemies and get to play another game when you lose one.

    ulysses, however, does.

  • 0

    jamal2609

    Burning the Koran probably won't result in "imminent lawless action," but a reasonable person could be forgiven for thinking it would. This is especially true since the kinds of people most likely to respond in violent and upredictable ways are the ones most incited by the symbolism of this act.

    I like what LFRAgain and Molenir said about freedom of speech and responsibility:

    LFRAgain:

    If I had to distill my stance on rights into one sentence, I'd say that with enjoying one's rights comes an equal dose of the responsible exercise thereof. Freedom solely for the sake of freedom, without responsible and mature restraint where called for, isn’t liberty. It’s anarchy. Terry Jones isn’t behaving responsibly.

    Molenir:

    However, doesn't matter where you live, freedom of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences.

    The way I see it, Mr. Jones is not putting US soldiers in Afghanistan in any more danger than they already are, but time and again these terrorists have demonstrated they will not hesitate to strike at any vulnerable soft target, including women and children, anywhere in the world without regard to consequences.

    So I would say he is endangering the lives of anyone who might be a target of these terrorists, not just US soldiers overseas, and not just in the United States.

    It would be nice to see this man of the cloth brought up on manslaughter charges if his little stunt causes some fanatical islamic militant to blow up a couple of Christian kids in Spain or something in retaliation.

    The law in the US that protects Mr. Jones is a Supreme Court interpretation of the free speech clause of the US Constitution dating back to 1969. I think this interpretation leans too much towards 'free' and not enough towards 'responsibility'. It allows Mr. Jones to enjoy his freedom of speech while letting some other hapless victim take responsibility for it. A lot has happened since 1969. Perhaps this incident would be a good opportunity for the Supreme Court to reexamine the issue.

    OssanAmerica brought up a good point as well:

    More importantly we do have a number of countries that are allied with us, to varying degrees which are muslim nations. Nothing is gained from pissing them off either, it hinders our agenda.

    If you believe that militant islamic extremists have as one of their goals the portrayal of the conflict in the Middle East as a clash between cultures and/or civilizations, not between the modern world and religious fanatics bent on taking us back to the 6th century, then you realize Terry is playing right into the hands of the very people he condemns: the burning of the Koran symbolizes the clash of cultures that the fanatics hope will mobilize the many diverse Muslim communities and countries around the globe against their enemies.

    Mr. Jones will hand that to them on a silver platter.

  • 0

    manfromamerica

    Mr. Jones will hand that to them on a silver platter.

    That's OK, ulysses crushes terrorists with his bare hands!

  • 0

    tkoind2

    The clash of cultures argument is often so absurd. Islam, Judaism and Christianity were all hatched off the same poison oak tree. They share so much in common. Especially their capacity to hate each other.

    This is ancient nonsense that modern people should be smart enough to get past. But Florida once again proves that nothing has changed since the time of the Romans. We just have more stuff. Thinking is still just as twisted for much of the world.

  • 0

    jamal2609

    tkoind2:

    The clash of cultures argument is often so absurd.

    Agreed. Enough people seem not to be aware of this that it works for them. They still see their own religions as true and others as corrupt.

  • 0

    knews

    Fifty followers isn't exactly a large group of people in the United States. It's a pity that a man of the cloth (if he can be called that) wants to try and stir up emotions by burning things that others respect and thus creating more tension. But, as someone wrote above, we'd probably all be better off without religion. Buddhism is the only one I can think of that doesn't seem to espouse violence. Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism are all messed up in their own ways. I believe in me!

  • 0

    Zenny11

    The more I look into this guy the more I get worried, here are 2 articles I found.

    1.) His Background: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/who-is-pastor-terry-jones-09082010

    2.) Supposed rulebook for his Church/Academy: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/dove-church-rulebook

    If the above info is correct I think he has had one too many fruit-loops.

    Hope no-one takes him and his actions serious.

  • 0

    realist

    I believe it is wrong of this pastor to burn copies of the Qu`ran. It will incite the fanatical Islamists to further violence. However, under the American Constitution, which is built on the principles of Freedom and Equality for all, he has the democratic right to burn anything he likes and also express his opinions.

    Those same rights do not exist in Islamic - dominated countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen and other such places. In those countries, Christians and people of other religions are persecuted and murdered, and their Bibles and religious books are destroyed. Islamic Shariah Laws as practiced in those countries are also barbaric to those of us who enjoy freedom of religion and conscience.

    There is no doubt that fanatical Islamism is an evil doctrine which has led to barbaric acts in recent years, and this pastor has the right to express his opinions. The sad fact is that in the West these days, the political correctness disease is rife and our freedom of expression is being curtailed, particularly if it concerns any perceived criticism of Islam.

  • 0

    MisterCreosote

    If Mohammedism, Xtianity and Judaism are all supposedly from the same Abrahamic root what is the big deal? Why is the most recent branch the only one offended by an act like this? Shouldn't it be Judaism, thousands of years older, which would react with the kind of barbarism the world fears Muslims will resort if this pastor(whom the irresponsible US media has made a star) burns an English translation of Arab fairy tales?

  • 0

    Tamarama

    @mikehuntez He is burning a book that he believes causes hate so strong as to be used to justify killing and with his crackpot ways has proven it to be a sound belief. I say power to him. > Mmmm. He is also burning a book that millions of moderates consider the word of God. The percentage of extremists (read: haters)in Islam is tiny, so whilst he may be vainly trying to send the a 'message' to these people, he is also going to massively upset millions of moderate folks who will be rightly angered by a callous and misguided act of foolishness.

    But I expect the "bleeding heart liberals" that is the ones that come here to always blame their own culture and appease the muslim culture

    Some people just choose not to blindly follow and unequivocally endorse the actions of their Government in matters of foreign policy. That's not blaming 'culture'. It is recognizing that there are always two sides to a story. I am not trying to appease any Muslims. I am condemning the imbecilic logic of a fool.

  • 0

    yabits

    However, under the American Constitution, which is built on the principles of Freedom and Equality for all, he has the democratic right to burn anything he likes and also express his opinions.

    I agree with this, and I wish that the hardline conservatives who also agree will forever apply this principle to the American flag as well.

  • 0

    the_sicilian

    I agree with the premiss of free speech, but not he way this guy is going about it. If he was serious, he would tell his 50 followers, stand on the front lawn of his "church" and burn it and be done. No publicity needed.

    But I do find it rather disturbing how America and the world are now to the point of cowering to the Islamic religion, and this one only. Why is it that a comedian can stand up and tell thousands of Jewish jokes and they are laughed at, but two writers for a TV cartoon (South Park) are excoriated for writing some logical arguments that piss of Islam, and the network goes crazy censoring them?

    Why should different rules apply to different religions? Hell, most wars have religion as a main protagonist. How about the same rules, or no religions at all?

  • 0

    TheRat

    "I think it is apparent that all religions are bat-crap crazy. There is the group in Nigeria, a muslim sect that broke prisoners out of jail (more members) and they are against western education and SCIENCE. Then again, a Pope, centuries ago, was against trains as people would move around and get ideas and this would decrease their level of superstition. Really! So, here we are again with priests fanning the flames of ignorance and hatred so that they can get (a) attention, (b) control, and most importantly (c) MONEY. Nothing new here."

  • 0

    bass4funk

    You mean to say that right-wing TV like FOX is not eating this up!

    Just like MSNBC is spouting rhetoric that everyone that shares the Pastors views about Islam is Islamic phobic and are definitely racist.

    Seriously, FOX has nothing to do with this. I get FOX through streaming and I heard quite the opposite, everyone(including Washington) has been trying to tell this loon to knock it off or there could be possible repercussions from the fallout about this. Darn it! I was just starting to relax on my flights recently too!

  • 0

    xsneezeonme

    whereismayhem wrote- ...even if HUSSEIN Obama visits him...

    Why did you capitalize "Hussein"?

  • 0

    xsneezeonme

    "Every burned book enlightens the world."

    (Quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson)

  • 0

    USARonin

    Breakin' News (0805/9-9-10/Hawaii Time): 'White House' considerin' callin' this pastor over proposed Koran burnin'.

    (The 'White House' screwed up and didn't stay out of tha mosque bidness. Don't they evern learn anythin'?)

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    Some people just choose not to blindly follow and unequivocally endorse the actions of their Government in matters of foreign policy. That's not blaming 'culture'. It is recognizing that there are always two sides to a story. I am not trying to appease any Muslims. I am condemning the imbecilic logic of a fool.

    What paranoid inducing drug are you smoking? I don't follow US politics as it's not my country. My country has refused to tow the US line at many times in this past decade. And while you're at it condemning the logic of a christian fool why don't you spread the love to the muslim fools who greatly outnumber the christian ones?

  • 0

    stormcrow

    It's amazing what a little group of 50 people can do to shape world opinion, isn't it? This wouldn't have even been considered newsworthy a few years ago, and now something as small as this has become a huge global event.

  • 0

    tigermoth

    The difference is that he gets to go home at night to a warm cozy lounge room with a nice TV set in front of the fire, and sleep in a cozy bed.

    Actually I don't believe he's really thinking this through, and he might not be doing the above for long. Certainly this clown must be aware that the radical fringe of this religion will undoubtedly call for his death, and such a belligerent redneck will not be difficult to find.

    I agree with this, and I wish that the hardline conservatives who also agree will forever apply this principle to the American flag as well.

    Yabits I just wonder what happened to make you hate your country so much. It surely is far from perfect, but it beats being stoned to death or fifty lashed for not wearing a head scarf? Perhaps it was living in Michigan - I think that would make anyone hate the USA.

    tkoind2, your wisdom is lost on the masses, no matter how true. We laugh at Greek and Roman mythology with a chuckle, yet they believed as strongly in their gods and goddesses as Christians, Muslims and Jews. Silly to think that Zeus turned himself into a bull, but quite believable that Jesus walked on water. Yeah. Same with the Egyptians. History is full of systems of belief to pacify the natural fear of death and need to find meaning in life. Instead they become tools of greed and reasons to kill, but we never learn as the fear is too great and the hold too strong. And so it goes.

  • 0

    yabits

    Yabits I just wonder what happened to make you hate your country so much.

    Yes, I hated my country so much I served in its military for seven years in order to help defend the freedoms that this Florida pastor enjoys -- as well as the freedom of anyone who thinks burning a flag is the most effective means of protest. (The way this pastor thinks burning a Quran is.)

    Come again? So the First Amendment can (properly) be used to justify burning a holy book, but the amendment somehow doesn't apply to a flag? Is that what you're saying?

    tigermoth, I just wonder what happened to make you hate the freedoms offered by the US Constitution so much.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    What paranoid inducing drug are you smoking? I don't follow US politics as it's not my country. My country has refused to tow the US line at many times in this past decade. And while you're at it condemning the logic of a christian fool why don't you spread the love to the muslim fools who greatly outnumber the christian ones? >

    Where did I mention the US? I like the thrust of your assumptions but you are the one making them here, not me. And I assume you have some kind of statistic to back up your sweeping brush of logic about the number of religious fools in the world? You have seen evidence there are more Muslim fools around that Christian ones? Care to share that? I am talking about one man. The subject of the article. But go ahead and grossly generalize - it's a very sound argument.

  • 0

    stevecpfc

    Well, he`s changed his mind now.

  • 0

    Frungy

    stevecpfc at 06:51 AM JST - 10th September Well, he`s changed his mind now.

    A shame really because it sets a very bad example. What always astounds me is that whenever there's a picture of the Prophet or a threatened Koran burning there's always a flood of death threats. Yet there's never any report of the follow-up arrests. Last time I checked making a death threat is a crime in almost all states in the U.S. (except possibly New York, where it's just regarded as normal driving etiquette to threaten to kill every other driver on the road).

    You'd think that incidents like this would be an ideal opportunity for the FBI to legally and ethically find out where the violent Muslims are hiding. They make a call threatening this guy's life (either to his home phone or talk radio or wherever) and the FBI have good cause to now trace the number and pay them a visit to discuss the legal implications of threatening someone's life.

    ... but I have yet to see a single report of an arrest following these death threats. Why? It just seems logical to me. Someone breaks the law, you follow it up and prosecute them. It's a no-brainer. Is this failure to prosecute these criminals some sort of misguided belief that death threats are protected speech, or is it just the US government turning a blind eye to Muslim crimes simply because of their religion? If it's the latter then I'd suggest that US women start shopping for burka because the battle is already lost.

  • 0

    genji17

    Oh Im sorry is he getting people upset? This moron has the same right to burn that book as the islamic idiots do that are building a mosque at ground zero. Both offend people. Both are offensive idiots.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    I like the thrust of your assumptions but you are the one making them here, not me. And I assume you have some kind of statistic to back up your sweeping brush of logic about the number of religious fools in the world? You have seen evidence there are more Muslim fools around that Christian ones? Care to share that? I am talking about one man. The subject of the article. But go ahead and grossly generalize

    Ok maybe you didn't mention the US outright but I think that is what you were getting at with the "blindly follow ...foreign policy of one's country." Don't deny that. And if I'm making a "sweeping brush of logic" when it is you and the panic artists that are doing the same telling us of the masses that are ready to create violence due to this man's plan. Just how many were going to threaten him or target Americans? Where are your statistics before you go calling for others? I'll generalize right along with you.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    when it is you and the panic artists that are doing the same telling us of the masses that are ready to create violence due to this man's plan.

    Those panic merchants include the likes of (listed in no particular order): US President Barak Obama, US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, US general in Afghanistan, Gen David Petraeus, Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, Pakistani President Zardari, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Should I keep going? Just a regular ol' list of panic merchants that have no idea of what they are on about. If you need sources to verify their condemnation, check the BBC, or some other major reportage portal. If you want images to see how the folks of the Muslim world have taken the news, check there too.

  • 0

    Tamarama

    And in to answer your other point;

    Ok maybe you didn't mention the US outright but I think that is what you were getting at with the "blindly follow ...foreign policy of one's country." Don't deny that

    The US is but one of a number of countries I would refer to under these circumstances, including my own. I reserve the right to criticize the actions of any foreign government I believe to be acting in a self serving, hegemonic fashion, as is our right in a democracy.

  • 0

    MistWizard

    genji17 said: Oh Im sorry is he getting people upset? This moron has the same right to burn that book as the islamic idiots do that are building a mosque at ground zero. Both offend people. Both are offensive idiots.

    The difference is that one act has been offensive for over a thousand years and is part of a religious belief. The other was made up out of thin air a few weeks ago and is just part of a pile of bullcrap and put forward JUST FOR THE PLEASURE OF ACTING OFFENDED.

  • 0

    yasukuni

    he government turned up the pressure Tuesday ....warning him that doing so could endanger U.S. troops and Americans everywhere.

    Why don't the Imam's of the world preach in their mosques that just because some crazy man in some place burns a Koran, doesn't mean you should kill his countrymen. If Allah is as powerful as they think he is, maybe they need to relax a bit more.

    This preacher is an ass, but the more this heats up, the more I realize I'm glad I live in a country without a large Muslim population. But I just hope there isn't one crazy offended Muslim who thinks I am American and feels that attacking me that Allah and/or the Koran has been avenged.

  • 0

    yabits

    This preacher is an ass, but the more this heats up, the more I realize I'm glad I live in a country without a large Muslim population.

    I don't know if the nation you live in is the U.S., but the vast majority of Muslim countries have murder rates that are far, far lower. Only Pakistan and Turkey exceed the US in murders per 100,000.

  • 0

    WilliB

    Yasukuni:

    " Why don't the Imam's of the world preach in their mosques that just because some crazy man in some place burns a Koran, doesn't mean you should kill his countrymen "

    Because that would be un-islamic. The call to hate and fight the unbelievers is very clear in the koran and the haddith.

    There are of course some moderate imams who say something like you suggest, but they have little theological ground to stand on. As long as the islam is not reformed, the literalists will always be there and dominate the teaching.

  • 0

    medievaltimes

    Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand. Ignorance and prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand...

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