French bid to ban veils worries allies, tourists
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29 Comments
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0
MistWizard
So, will they ban the clothing of the Carthusian nuns too, you know, to integrate them into French society? All for a good cause, just about 1000 years late.
This clothing ban has "intolerance of Islam" written all over it. You watch, they will make special cases for this and that, but not anything that "looks" Islamic. If Muslim women end up wearing SARS masks and looking like hell, intolerant Frenchmen will call it a victory for their intolerant cause, yet all it will effectively change is to make the few women who wear the things, and the fewer "forced" to wear them annoyed every single day. Some people get off on doing stuff like that to people. I suggest throwing such people into the Bay of Biscay to either give that up or drown.
0
Foxie
*Any clothing ban would be a “rather un-British thing to do” * The same should apply for the whole of Europe.
0
majimekun
I thought that western women traveling to muslim countries were required to abide to the muslim dressing code. Then why shouldn't the muslim women traveling to western countries abide to the western dressing code?
Just asking.
0
semperfi
Vive La France ! Burkas are gender-oppressive & security risks.
0
Osakadaz
It is time the non-muslim world stopped pandering to the wahabbiists.Non-muslims cannot visit Mecca and must conform to the mores of Islam in Islamic countries.What is good for the goose is good for the gander.Maybe a tad too late but well done France.If they don't like it they can lump it.Plenty of other places to live that will happily give them Shariah law.
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MistWizard
Because copying the policies of oppressive regimes would be stupid? Who would be sticking it to anyway? First the oppressive regimes stick to the little people, so we stick it to the little people to show them? There is a way to get back at oppressive regimes, and it does not involve oppressing innocent people.
semperfi said: Vive La France !
Heck yeah!
This is like saying pants are gender oppressive and backpacks are security risks. Free governments don't you can't wear a skirt, nor should they. And you might have a lethal, non-metal air gun stowed in your backpack, but hey, until that scenerio happens a few times, lets nod to the idea of freedom and not go on pre-emptive security sprees banning backpacks, okay?
0
smithinjapan
"Authorities insist the global ban—which would include visiting foreigners—is not anti-Muslim."
Yeeeeaaahhhh, right.
majimekun: "I thought that western women traveling to muslim countries were required to abide to the muslim dressing code."
Not in all cases, and not in all places, either.
"Then why shouldn't the muslim women traveling to western countries abide to the western dressing code?"
Because Western nations are often multi-cultural and purport to uphold everyone's rights to religious freedom, freedom of speech, etc. France claims it's because they promote gender equality, but clearly here they are taking the choice away from women who choose to wear the veils (of course, I'm fully aware not all CHOOSE to do so and some are forced).
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Zenny11
I am for the Ban. Simple reason: There is nowhere in the Q'ran that requires a women to wear ANY veil of any sorts.
Head to foot covering leaving face and hands exposed = Yes, face-coverings= NO.
Many people also forget that other countries dress-codes were designed to hide the womens curves. Like with a Kimono where waist and bust should not be shown but fall in straight lines, etc.
0
oyatoi
Far from being a victory for intolerance, France`s burqa ban is a carefully tailored pre-emptive strike against those who would foster the US vs THEM divisions implicit in prescriptive clothing. Some would have us believe that the issue is about the French betraying Western values of tolerance and individual freedom. The more intelligent among us will however recognise it for what it truly is; an affirmation of French values of equality and fraternity.
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Zenny11
I agree with Oyatoi.
The ban applies to anybody in public, regardless of sex, greed, age, etc.
0
LHommeQuiMent
Well, even if the ban passes the Senate and becomes a law, it will only affect only about 2000 women in France. According to Le Figaro only about 2000 French women wear burqa and the French Muslim population is around 4 million people.
Belgium lawmakers passed a similar ban recently and in Belgium only 30 women wear burqa.
So, it's practically nothing.
0
proxy
Let me tell ya, if you are walking around in a veil in a Western country you are attracting attention to yourself; the opposite of what you want.
0
MistWizard
Yeah, just oppressing a minority doing what their mothers have done for centuries. No big deal.
But if a woman wants to wear a mini-skirt, its her right. If her man forced her to wear it, who cares, cause we got to see skin.
I am appalled that some of you can't fathom why a women would want to cover up, even her face. How many women do you think are bothered by men just for their face?
And will this apply to people with prostetic faces? Whether its covering their faces or covering their @$$es, people should have the right to decide what they cover. What is hard to get about that?
0
BurakuminDes
Don't know about anyone else, but I'd feel more than a little uneasy if a person - completely covered up, head to toe - walked into a bank, government building, etc. Well done France - this ban is a very good idea and will start the ball rolling elsewhere in the world for sure.
0
Triumvere
I like this.
0
space_monkey
Well, you cant walk into many places with a motor cycle helmet on or a balaclava so why a burqa. Makes sense to me.
0
Klein2
"For Britain, any clothing ban would be a “rather un-British thing to do,” Immigration Minister Damian Green has said."
What a relief. So I can wear a veil in Britain, as a man, and it will be no problem? Whew. Glad to hear it. It should be ok. I mean. I have nothing to hide. I just want to wear a veil that covers everything but my eyes.
If I am banned from wearing a veil on security grounds, well, others should be too, regardless of religion and gender. It is only fair, right?
Hate to say it, but banning it seems fair. The government will have to take their lumps for it, but if it is truly a matter of principle, then they should go for it. And never ever look back.
0
TheQuestion
I just view it as a security risk. Same way I'd view it if a bunch of men decided that as part of their religion they should wear ski-masks and gloves everywhere.
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Good_Jorb
Nothing like Big Government telling people what they can and can't wear. I wonder if they one day expand the ban to other religious clothing like the Scapular and Habit.
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southsakai
I ain't French but I fully support the action they are trying to take. The cultural norms and values of any country must be protected.
Whatever country you belong to, protect your heritage and traditional values as long as you're not being evil, cruel, barbaric, yadi yada, nobody, especially a group of foreign migrants who have become Citizens of any land should have attempt to change local tradition.
If people want to immigrate to another country , they should be prepared to integrate! If that's not acceptable, don't immigrate to another country. That simple really.
0
majimekun
I discussed with an algerian friend today and he told me that he is 100% for the ban because, as he told me, behind every woman wearing the burqa or the veil, there is one man who forced her to do so sometime in her life.
0
Yumimoto
Sarkozy... the two face guy. On one hand he pretends to ban the burka and on the other one he deals with Soudie Arabia to make islamic business in France and breaks all the secular laws of the republic and help to spread islam all over the place.
Anyway French muslims are already raising money to help these women to pay their fines. The funny part is that this won't even be necessary because the police will not fine them. They are not even allow to arrest muslims who are shooting or beating cops, but real French are send to prison if they shoot on muslims robbers inside their house...
France is a total mess with huge crime raising because of this crapy president and his beloved 10 millions muslims. .
0
Yumimoto
@majimekun : believe me, your algerian friend did not think what he told you. He was just using Taqiya, the Holy Lie.
0
Yumimoto
@LHommeQuiMent : 10 millions. They are 10 millions muslims. 4 millions is state propaganda number to keep the French silent.
0
djuice
Good to see a government willing to stand up to Islam. Wish other governments had the same fortitude.
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MistWizard
People having hands is a security risk. The proof is in what people do with their hands everyday. Women have walked around with these things on in France for decades. What security problems have their been? The proof is the pudding, not the fears of your imagination.
The theory that you can do that goes wonky when it mets the reality that you won't.
But if you rob a bank you may go for the old panty hose over your head trick. You think the law will stop you then? You think hitting bank robbers with an extra penalty for covering their face is going to help things?
Look folks, if we create legislation based on our imaginations and fears, it won't be long before we cannot leave our own houses. Things are a problem when they are a problem and not before. There is no security problem except in your dreams.
0
TheQuestion
Fingerprints and faces can be used for identifying criminals. If a person covers up their face it's difficult to generate a positive identification. If I were to walk into a store with a full face mask on I'd be asked to leave or have security called on me, simple as that.
0
MistWizard
I don't have a problem with that. A store is not a public place.
The ban you are supporting is demanding that people leave parks and sidewalks if they wear a mask, not stores.
Even so, some stores will be burqua friendly.
But look, what you need is some cases of crime committed with burquas and Islamic veils where the clothing meant the perps got away, or could only commit their crimes thanks to the clothes. Your imaginings just are not good enough.
But I can tell you right now nobody ever stopped a suicide bomber because they were recognized as repeat offenders. Think about that.
0
WilliB
For every saudi tourist who does not like the burqua ban there are many Western tourists who are happy to hear it.
Not that it will stop the islamization of France, though.
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