French say 'Yes, we can!' too, to ending racism

Monday 10th November, 05:45 AM JST

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Zenigata2 at 10:06 PM JST - 10th November

Anybody who watched the military parade on July 14th in the Champs Elysées knows that, in every group of five frenchmen in uniform, at least three of them have their skin of a darker hue. Yet the presence of non-white among French elected to public office is almost negligible, and the French Minister of Justice Rachida Dati, who was born in a family of Moroccan immigrants, is the only non-white ever appointed as a Cabinet minister. Things are changing in Europe, but don't hold your breath...
goodDonkey at 11:35 PM JST - 10th November

Helter_Skelter

Racism is not limited to whites and racism coming from other ethnic groups is no less evil.

That's true.
goodDonkey at 11:56 PM JST - 10th November

Racism was particularly heinous towards blacks for a few centuries throughout much of the world. I believe it is the cause of heinous acts in Darfur. There are many blacks in the U.S. that hold resentments because of the past. There is no excuse for racism. I, as a liberal, hope that we will try to teach tolerance in a manner that shows we understand if people hold resentments. Resentments must be dealt with by the individual. It helps many of these individuals if the slave-holding nationalities, races or ethnicities take responsibility for their shameful behavior. Also we need to acknowledge recent racism against blacks in the 20th century. At some point every black must also take responsibility for ending racism.

In other ways it must be dealt with nationally on a country by country basis. I commend France for renewing their effort to combat racism. Criticizing them for moving forward does not make any sense.
ca1ic0cat at 03:28 AM JST - 11th November

I think the big difference between the US and the rest of the world is that the US has been trying to do something about racism and sexism while the Euro crowd just wrings their hands about their own bigotry - and then goes on to whip the US for being "racist."

But you can't find a widely read daily newspaper in the US that has pics of half nude women inside. That would be considered sexism. The Euro crowd says that the US are prudes but in fact I don't see any page 3 men in papers.

Same for race. I hate to break this to the French but Sarkozy is not from a different race. French is not a race, it's a nationality. You might say that being half Jewish makes it a "race" issue but that was never brought up in the election. Good thing too, given the history of Drancy.

Europe has a long way to go before it catches up with the US on racism and sexism. It would help if they would stop talking and actually do something. Don't hold your breath though.
rurika at 04:25 AM JST - 11th November

Racism does exist in France as it does in most countries but some minority groups alienate themselves by refusing to integrate.

This idea that everyone is just “French” means there are no census or other national figures calculating how big the country’s minority groups are.

It's also extremely convenient to hide the fact that immigrants from North Africa and their descendants are responsable for a very large proportion of crimes such as rape, assault, burglary and murder. You just need to read the "faits divers" page of any French newspaper for this fact to become obvious.
Everton2 at 06:44 AM JST - 11th November

The idea that minority groups actively refuse to integrate is just plain false. It is essential the usual line that the dominant society spit out in order to justify their behavior. Integration is a two way process of which a degree of acceptance is a critical component. It you cant find a job and is basically shun and marginalized by the wider society then those people will tend to look inward for acceptance and comfort.

Cos, my view about French society stands because it is a statement of fact. France in every sense has a two tiered system that undermines minority aspirations. Two black friends of mine highly skilled professionals trained in France had to leave the country to gain meaningful employment. They were both lawyers, and after two years of being rejected by organizations who made a decision based on their photos they left France. The process would go like this; They would call the company to have a brief conversation about the role. As they spoke perfect French the company would then express a desire to interview them but required a photo with the application. After the photo was received that would be the last they hear about it.
bushlover at 06:52 AM JST - 11th November

Gee Everton that MUST prove that it's their photos that are getting them to be refused jobs!! Well detected Sherlock!! Ever think it may also be because of more qualified individuals that also supplied photos? You are just assuming that it's the photos of black men that are getting them to be refused. That is typical of how black men think. Nothing based on who is most qualified but it MUST be because I'm black attitude is nothing more than assumption.

Minorities want to integrate? Well I beg to differ. My references are Chinatowns around the world. I've had waitresses at Dim Sum restaurants that couldn't speak a word of English. If I worked in a restaurant in Japan I couldn't get away without Japanese.
rurika at 07:27 AM JST - 11th November

Everton2, then how do you explain that so many second and third generation Lao, Vietnamese and Cambodian immigrants have become professional people in France? Their photos stand out too. I think the difference is that their grandparents and parents raised them to value education and hard work. Again, I agree that racism exists in France but it certainly cannot explain why some minority groups do so much better than others.
Everton2 at 07:33 AM JST - 11th November

bushlover: you are amazing! "Typical of how black men think" So you know how most black men think? Why? Because you are black.

Please collect yourself. You can make all kinds of ridiculous pronouncements about the absence of racism and it being the victims fault because they overreact.

I am happy that your views are not typical but more social and political contrivances, which don't mean crap in the real world where victims of racism are being made everyday. Before the net came along opinions like yours were normally confined to small town journals with a largely challenged readership. Or perhaps being exposed by a group of emaciated rednecks struggling to find a voice.

The reality is that we did not have to worry about them because of our capacity to forgive and more importantly, no body really took them seriously.

The two black men I mentioned have left France after two years of trying and moved on to have successful careers elsewhere. They just simply got tired of watching other white students they outperformed academically find employment well ahead of them.
Everton2 at 07:55 AM JST - 11th November

rurika: What are you trying to say? That black people's families don't really teach them any real values. That somehow black people collectively have fallen well short of placing enough value on education? Let me categorically state that you are wrong! Africans in general have a ferocious appetite for education. They also have an amazing capacity to learn languages. Now I don't know if it comes from family re -enforcement or just plain personal observations of the benefits on their part. I suppose you are the expert on black people.

Black people it appears are the most marginalized group on the planet. It comes mainly from the fact that they are naturally feared without justification. As far as your question is concerned I suppose you will have to ask the French people as to why they choose to discriminate against them more that any other group.
skipthesong at 09:06 AM JST - 11th November

It comes mainly from the fact that they are naturally feared without justification." Well, I hate to lay it on you, but putting out gangstaer rap videos sure doesn't help.
You say with out justification, then why are Hispanics in L.A., Dallas, and Miami always being jump on? Oh, white too. Stop with that there is no justification, you know damn well that there needs a lot of changes in the black community. If you think that everyone has to give you a pass not matter what you do then you are wrong. YOu have tried that many times and people ain't going for it. Sure, you guys have the upper hand in most cases, but you need to know that all your are really doing is pushing people underground. Now your two friends, sure there was mostly racism behind it, but I think you got it wrong that people are born that way. Quite a bit of fault lies in your own communities and once that is realized, perhaps people will start listening to you. You can start by not defending people like Colin Fergusen, John Muhammoud and the like. Running up and defending OJ - which really turned out to be a waste of time as I am sure you can agree at this point... no, if you want people to hear you out, then change needs to come to you too. I sense though, that is not what you want. I sense you are more down with the idea of a rumble. Isn't that what you want? Look at your posts, I can't see anywhere where you are ok with the idea of living in a multicultural world.

You last line "ask the French people as to why they choose to discriminate against them more that any other group." play with stats and you get what you want.

The White French yes they can, but they need to ask the other parties involved. After all the history lessons we have gotten from Everton2, why would you want to hang out with them?
Everton2 at 12:43 PM JST - 11th November

skipthesong: I thought the issue was about France, now it is being fused with black people in California. All that pent-up neurosis you have long entertained about black people in general are being revealed here in your post. What is this nose drip about your own community? I live in Australia!

So you have been jumped on by some moronic black people and now it is the fault of all black people and that is the justification to fear them.

This is indeed the kind of challenged logic that promotes hatred and fear of a particular group. A fixed notion that seek to paint an entire group of people with the same brush based on a very narrow perspective.

The overwhelming majority of black people are law abiding citizens who do not subscribe to the lyrics contained in those gangster raps music, nor would I make generalizations about whites on the basis that their kids have spent millions of dollars purchasing gangster rap records.

The narrative about my friends' experiences in France deserved to be told. It was indeed their experience. After nearly 300 applications that never went anywhere and the common factor was the silence that came after the photos were sent. These guys were not gang bangers or gangster rappers. They deserved a chance because they had worked hard. Why on earth do they have to be subjected to the lunatic fears of white people about blacks. If anyone should be scared then I suggest it should be black people based on the experiences they have had in dealing with whites since their contact.

I am going to let this go for now as you clearly don't really understand the issue
skipthesong at 01:19 PM JST - 11th November

So you have been jumped on by some moronic black people and now it is the fault of all black people and that is the justification to fear them." I don't get jumped but attempts have been made. But I have seen and know quite a few, especially when I was in the army. You point about some moronic.... well, why don't that work the other way around? Why is France's White people so evil, yet who the heck was setting cars on fire? BTW, I would prefer not even to make the call, but when I hear "we are so innocent and all of you are so bad crap, I feel compelled to make a statement. You don't seem to hide your feelings, its ok you can come out and say it loud.

I welcomed your narrative about your friends, but did you go further and see if any fat people didn't get the job, if the job wasn't already promised to someone else? France ain't got a lot of good going on, so why should protectionist go up? Additionally, they probably worked hard and even were the best. Look at it a different way, and maybe they should have created their own firm.

You call the fears of many whites against blacks lunatic, but come on, that fear is almost like cash in the bank. Would you want it the other around?

They deserved a chance because they had worked hard" Only them? How about the others who have worked hard as well? Again, France ain't the best place to get a job in the first place.
Its arguments like this "I am owed" that keeps the feelings and those fears you talk about going on./
Nessie at 03:10 PM JST - 11th November

The exact quote:

"If zee yanquis have zee blek preyzidan, we uwill have also zee blek preyzidan. Bet ours uwill be blekker, bien sur. Twice as blek as zee yanqui preyzidan. Beaucoup de blek. He will be as blek as zee night is long. Les gouts et les couleurs ne sont discutent pas! Viva la France! Sautee les coulottes! Appellation controlee!"
powderfinger at 03:37 PM JST - 11th November

Most of my profs in the fields of post-colonial studies and peace studies named Europe as the culture that basically spread to all those they came in contact with the toxic notions of what we now call racism. Specifically, the three most common and egregious offenders were France, Germany and Great Britain. So I think France is doing some good work with this campaign. The Germans and the British should adopt similar slogans and though they are decades behind try and catch up with the United States. Great Britain especially were all for the end of apartheid and ending racism - when it was thousands of miles away - but at home there is much, much more that could be done. In the age of Obama it is not enought to simply plaster stadium walls with posters admonishing your subjects to say 'No to Racism!'