French say 'Yes, we can!' too, to ending racism
The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.
JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
-
Israel blames Iran for series of blasts
( 16 )
-
Obama: Strong U.S.-China ties help rest of the world
( 3 )
-
Santorum surging in Republican presidential race
( 9 )
-
Private funeral Saturday for Whitney Houston
( 1 )
-
Egyptian minister's remarks stoke tensions with U.S.
( 3 )
-
- English Instructor (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe)
- Berlitz Japan, Inc. (ベルリッツ・ジャパン株式会社), Kansai
- Salary: ¥125,000 ~ ¥250,000 / Month
-
- FT English Teachers for Kids - Osaka
- Kohgakusha Co., Ltd. （株式会社興学社）, Osaka
- Salary: ¥255,000 ~ ¥275,000 / Month Travel Expenses, Encouragement of Japanese learning*
-
- Translator
- ZAIHON, Inc. (日本財務翻訳株式会社), Tokyo
- Salary: ¥6.0M / Year Negotiable
Order by Time Order by Popularity
50 Comments
Login to comment
0
RomeoRamenII
obama's election proves that the U.S. as a nation is far more advanced than its europeon counterparts in regards to race relations.
RR
0
skipthesong
you are only going to stamp this out if and only if all sides participate. I have notice far too much is put on Anglos in race relations, of course much of it due to history but the current generations of them face a lot flak. If its going to be rich white liberal dictating things, the bottom will explode in retaliation.
0
rjd_jr
Romeo is right on. All these platitudes will never cover for the fact that America is light years ahead of other nations especially Europe in this case. They can talk the talk but certainly cannot walk the walk. Only one black person out of 555 in lower? Pathetic. Just recently an Austrian guy was talking racist garbage about Obama. The European elite are quaking in their boots. They thought they were so much more 'advanced' and cultural than the U.S.
0
jeancolmar
Good for Madam Sarkozy. She is the small good thing in an otherwise not good thing in having her husband as President.
France does need to get to it with regard to ending racism. Hate speech is outlawed in France but that is by itself not enough.
0
skipthesong
Hate speech is outlawed in France but that is by itself not enough." You're right, its not enough.. they have to include all hate speech, not only the stuff coming out of one groups' mouths.
Take a look a some really disgusting French Rap lyric and you tell me if they really are enforcing hate speech in its truest sense
0
hoserfella
whoa! hold on there,RR and rjd_jr. Why don't you ask a few African Americans how "advanced" the US is in race relations before your self-congratulations.
0
Helter_Skelter
After listening to speeches by Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Jessie Jackson, etc., there's definitely racism still in America. In fact, Farrakhan commonly refers to whites as "blue-eyed devils."
0
Everton2
The French have had a long history of exploiting minorities. Their active participation in the salve is well documented. Their law makers at home have by and large given their tacit approval to right wing groups that advocate for the expulsion of all immigrants. This hypocritical approach is infused with a blatantly racist foreign policy, towards their many African and pacific island colonies where the locals are treated with disdain by the white French expatriates.
Moreover, Immigrant experience in France is littered with many stories of educated Africans having to resort to jobs that fall short of their ability. To apply for a job in France applicants are required to include with their application a photo of themselves, a process which serves only to exclude those that do not fit the perception of what it is to look or be French.
The notion of being French is a bankrupt two tier system that awards white French citizens a higher status than those who are not.
0
Everton2
Helter_Skelter: I think the KKK, the various white paramilitary groups committed to the violent destruction of blacks and Jews, skin heads, the ideology and the people behind the Oklahoma bombing present more of a threat to America than the people you have mentioned. America's history is permeated with acts of brutality by white against blacks because of skin color.
Helter_Skelter you just can help yourself the sound bite junkie you are, can you!
0
adaydream
There will always be racist. There are still racist here in the US. But for a country to elect a black man to the high post of p;resident, then we are trying to look past it.
If France starts today, it'll get get where we are in 50 or 60 years. < :-)
0
skipthesong
Their active participation in the salve is well documented." So were the Arabs, yet you warm up to them. The Queen of Mali allowing her subjects to be enslaved so she become a Muslim, Brazil, most of South America and yet you would throw down with these people for the hatred you hold in yourself. You ignore what happens on the streets, instead would prefer to use history as your excuse.
aday: of course there will always be racist, but if Hispanics and Muslims can look past race, so should the US be able to do as well. I believe one of the reason racism is still hard to deal with is people like Everton2. He'll stomp on Helter for the kkk stuff, but shrugs off Yehwa, 5%ers, and other black supremacists such as Dr. Kamau Kambon, who is calling for the extermination of whites and has support right there in main stream America.
Some of you all need to walk down a few ghetto streets.
0
Everton2
skipthesong: what are you talking about?? The Arabs are largely Caucasians, and the Queen of Mali had very little choice in the matter, she did not allow anything. You have obviously not read the story. And what about Brazil? Are you talking about the Portuguese and their involvement in colonizing Brazil and promote a culture of racism? I was talking about France and what I have seen and experience there on they streets. What is your point?
0
skipthesong
Everton, my point is your are one sided on this issue, as are many. My point about Brazil and many South American countries, even well after having independence they have slaves with many of African descent up till close to 1920's. The Arabs are largely Caucasians wasn't my point. It is they who not only started the African Slave trade, but still dabble in it today, but you'll defend them. The Queen of Mali did indeed sell her subjects in order to buy her way into Mecca. Read up on it.
Additionally, I was talking about France and what I have seen and experience there on they streets. What is your point?" Are you going to tell me that you were more scared of a few weakly whites in their areas than you were going into North African areas? Are you going to tell me its safer for some of the guys on this board to walk through Newark, Bed-Sty, Philly, DC, than say Astoria, Staten Island, Westchester?
0
WayneRooney10
It's worst at Parc des Princes. Intolerable! Makes me proud to be British it does.
0
soldave
hoserfella - It doesn't matter what they think... only what rjd thinks! Having a black president is only such a big deal in the US because of how they were treated up until so recently. There are black MPs in the UK as well as from different cultural and racial backgrounds, and this is the same in many European States.
Hopefully they'll decrease racism though and clean up their act completely, same for all countries (yes, including Japan and the US).
0
Helter_Skelter
Everton
Yes, these white supremacist groups are evil and have no place in American society. But why do blacks and other ethnic groups get a pass when it comes to racism? In your world, can only whites be guilty of racism? Some of the worst anti-Semitic remarks I've heard have come from prominent blacks in mainstream politics. Anti-Semite and bigot Louis Farrakhan organized a million man march which was attended by about as many people. And you're telling us it's of no real concern? By comparison, white supremacist groups don't have a fraction of this voice.
Racism is not limited to whites and racism coming from other ethnic groups is no less evil. I know the libs don't like to hear this because they need to believe these ethnic minorities are partners in their socialist revolution.
Well, it seems about as effective as some of the thousand word tombs I've seen posted on JT. Certainly got your attention!
0
dennis0bauer
the solution is very simple no people, no racism it will always linger in humanity. If economy goes bad racist are the first to point at minority groups and say "they took our jobs"
0
CavemanLawyer
There should be no such push to get minorities in power. The only push should be to stop blocking them. Then let things take its course. --Cirroc
0
CavemanLawyer
Light years ahead? That is quite a statement about a nation that looked on nearly all blacks as slaves 150 years ago and had aparteid up until 40 years ago, a history the Europeans do not share. The Europeans might be slow as molasses, but the situation there has changed drastically in the past few decades. We Americans have just been adjusting a situation that is very old. We have had it easy. So don't toot that horn so loudly please. Pride cometh before a fall. --Cirroc
0
powderfinger
In terms of car-b-que's, I would say we are still talking tens of thousands of Citroens torched before France has achieved a level of racial equality comparable even to what the United States had thirty years ago. You see, that's just the way it is. America leads. The rest follow.
0
sabiwabi
Are the French that racist? Just look at their national soccer (football) team.
Yes, and the Italians are delighted of that as well!
0
Madverts
Bah, people don't deserve to be in "positions of power" simply because they're black. It has to be on merit. Who do the minorities have up there anyway? Rachida Dati?
0
unscrejects
helter skelter: Wow... you don't get it? Racism by the people you've cited? Let me tell you a story. A New York cop arrested a guy for washing car windows at a traffic light. In court the judge asked why he was disobeying local law. The guy brushed aside his public defender and asked the judge, "Who's going to hire me? I have a college degree but I'm the wrong color. How can I survive? I don't want to go on welfare so I'm trying to make an honest buck. Perhaps it would be better for you and society if I was out breaking into your homes..." The story has taken a few turns as it's retold but the moral of the story is that America can count itself blessed that after two plus centuries of 'institutionalized' racism the only fight back by the oppressed is through words. A ranting Farrakan is worth a million reassured smiles in mainstream America than were he to go the other imam way.
0
Madverts
ramen, from someone who shrieked and slandered President-elect Obama throughout his entire campaign, one only has to smirk at you now using his election as a smart. Heh.
0
Everton2
Helter_Skelter:Racism is usually perpetrated by those who are in power or is essentially in possession of the means of power. That extend to control of the natural resources, the means of violence, education or access to opportunities. It is done more often to serve the financial or social interest of that dominant group. Apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany, America for most of its history are some examples.
To use your term "black people gets a free pass on it" because they have largely never been in control of these symbols of power, and for these reasons have had a long and violent history of racism and exploitation at the hands of white people. Whichever way you want to look at it that is a fact.
History, tradition, past experience or whatever you want to call it has placed white people as a group in the seat of the perpetrator. These radical black people's rhetoric like the ones you mention is a manifestation of the way they have been treated. They are angry and at the same time neurotic about their experience. It is the result the enduring trauma that is racism. White people have nothing to complain about
0
skipthesong
I think all of us are getting off track and in some ways it should. Helter has a point and even Everton has a point.
I still think that the only way to get rid of this is talking about and all sides venting their anger in a controled environment.
unscrejects: I'd like a link to your story. If a guy with a degree who couldn't find a job only finding himself left to be a car window wash at a busy intersection, then he should have been smart enough to join the military. If this story is true, it must be over 30 years old.
A ranting Farrakan is worth a million reassured smiles in mainstream America than were he to go the other imam way." OH, he is not the problem. Its those other who branch off from him that are....
0
powderfinger
I was thinking that in conjunction with this article there should be the recent article from the Guardian newspaper, and quoting Trevor Phillips, saying that Britain has far too much institutional racism for a figure like Barack Obama to succeed there. It hardly seems fair to single out the French when really all of Europe is still quite racist.
0
Madverts
"when really all of Europe is still quite racist."
Really all of everywhere is still quite racist. Europe doesn't hold a monopoly.
0
yasukuni
Good to see the US getting some praise and recognition for a change
0
Cos
obama's election proves that the U.S. as a nation is far more advanced than its europeon counterparts in regards to race relations
Is it ? Obama's mother was American, I don't even understand why you are all obsessed with him being of such or such race. Sarkozy's parents have both been foreigners, his race is French. I have never heard one of my compatriots denying that, and I can tell you the guy is not loved by everybody. There are racists in our population, like in any country. But color/ethnicity/religion/national origine have never been criteria for political choices in our democracy. Each time that happened, some have fought against that crime. Before World War II, many people were antisemtists in private life, but our Prime Minister was a Jew. Before decolonisation, we have had civil servants at the higher ranks and ministers that originated from the colonies and had not one drop of "mainland French" blood.
I would never vote for a "black president", I vote for a president and couldn't care if he is blue, green or pink with grey polka dots.
And, I am really glad that Obama is elected because he seems to be much more competent than the one before. OK, if would have even been glad to see Paris Hilton as US president after W. Bush, but I sincerly think Obama has good skills and projects. I am also glad if some Americans are happy to see the election as a victory against color bias.
BUT be careful that he is not just a token. What's the point of having a photo of a black president on your TV if you are still facing/causing as many discrimination problems in daily life. Benazir Bhutto was president of Pakistan, but I am not envying Pakistan women's living conditions. I prefer those in France, Japan and the US, even if the countries may seem retards for not having a woman leader.
The lower house of parliament has 555 members from the French mainland; just one is black.
So the Blacks are represented, no ? There is maybe 2 Black per 1000 among French nationals, and many less among those that run for elections (which is opened to anyone and free). I wish our parliament become more diversified of course, but those that complain are to blame.
My little hometown has 20000 inhabitants, 12000 adult French citizens (others being foreign residents -they can become French citizens- and children). Until 1995, 100% of the candidates to local elections were people whose families had been in the village for 2 or 3 generations, the truth is local responsabilities are seen as a chore and most people going for minor positions, and any community volunteer job, are doing it to continue their parent's job. Otherwise nobody does anything. In 1995, a guy, that came from Yougoslavia that had acquired French nationality was a candidate : Front National. I can't understand it.
Maybe some readers misunderstood. Celebrities are not concerned at all with this Manifesto. The authors are directing it at all those people feeling discriminated, telling that that they should run for elections, create their companies, and go themselves to take central roles in society. I encourage them too.
Are you going to tell me that you were more scared of a few weakly whites in their areas than you were going into North African areas?
What do you mean ? I have been to North Africa, Tunisia, etc, and 90% of the population are as white as me. The "North African areas" are no longer part of France. They own their dictatures now. I am a law-abiding tourist there, smily and polite as usual, as I love being welcomed, there or anywhere on earth.
***many stories of educated Africans having to resort to jobs that fall short of their ability. ***
And it is not the case of non-Africans ? I don't deny that there are disadvantages in not having local family support, a net of established acquaintances, and a mainstream professionnal appearance(skin color not being the main point those days when some think it's normal to apply for jobs with a scarf covering most of their heads). But that's hard for everybody. Hardly anybody in my family has landed a job matching their professional skills. The job market is like that, most of us are working abroad. Me for instance, in the US and then Japan, and I have not been impressed by the attitudes toward migrants in both places. I have not the slightest doubt France makes much better for its migrants. We should do better, true, but not in comparison with here or there.
Precision : I do not complain at all about my situation. What I don't like is reading about ignorants like Everton spitting on my country unfairly.
0
Zenigata2
Anybody who watched the military parade on July 14th in the Champs Elysées knows that, in every group of five frenchmen in uniform, at least three of them have their skin of a darker hue. Yet the presence of non-white among French elected to public office is almost negligible, and the French Minister of Justice Rachida Dati, who was born in a family of Moroccan immigrants, is the only non-white ever appointed as a Cabinet minister. Things are changing in Europe, but don't hold your breath...
0
goodDonkey
Helter_Skelter
That's true.
0
goodDonkey
Racism was particularly heinous towards blacks for a few centuries throughout much of the world. I believe it is the cause of heinous acts in Darfur. There are many blacks in the U.S. that hold resentments because of the past. There is no excuse for racism. I, as a liberal, hope that we will try to teach tolerance in a manner that shows we understand if people hold resentments. Resentments must be dealt with by the individual. It helps many of these individuals if the slave-holding nationalities, races or ethnicities take responsibility for their shameful behavior. Also we need to acknowledge recent racism against blacks in the 20th century. At some point every black must also take responsibility for ending racism.
In other ways it must be dealt with nationally on a country by country basis. I commend France for renewing their effort to combat racism. Criticizing them for moving forward does not make any sense.
0
ca1ic0cat
I think the big difference between the US and the rest of the world is that the US has been trying to do something about racism and sexism while the Euro crowd just wrings their hands about their own bigotry - and then goes on to whip the US for being "racist."
But you can't find a widely read daily newspaper in the US that has pics of half nude women inside. That would be considered sexism. The Euro crowd says that the US are prudes but in fact I don't see any page 3 men in papers.
Same for race. I hate to break this to the French but Sarkozy is not from a different race. French is not a race, it's a nationality. You might say that being half Jewish makes it a "race" issue but that was never brought up in the election. Good thing too, given the history of Drancy.
Europe has a long way to go before it catches up with the US on racism and sexism. It would help if they would stop talking and actually do something. Don't hold your breath though.
0
rurika
Racism does exist in France as it does in most countries but some minority groups alienate themselves by refusing to integrate.
This idea that everyone is just “French” means there are no census or other national figures calculating how big the country’s minority groups are.
It's also extremely convenient to hide the fact that immigrants from North Africa and their descendants are responsable for a very large proportion of crimes such as rape, assault, burglary and murder. You just need to read the "faits divers" page of any French newspaper for this fact to become obvious.
0
Everton2
The idea that minority groups actively refuse to integrate is just plain false. It is essential the usual line that the dominant society spit out in order to justify their behavior. Integration is a two way process of which a degree of acceptance is a critical component. It you cant find a job and is basically shun and marginalized by the wider society then those people will tend to look inward for acceptance and comfort.
Cos, my view about French society stands because it is a statement of fact. France in every sense has a two tiered system that undermines minority aspirations. Two black friends of mine highly skilled professionals trained in France had to leave the country to gain meaningful employment. They were both lawyers, and after two years of being rejected by organizations who made a decision based on their photos they left France. The process would go like this; They would call the company to have a brief conversation about the role. As they spoke perfect French the company would then express a desire to interview them but required a photo with the application. After the photo was received that would be the last they hear about it.
0
bushlover
Gee Everton that MUST prove that it's their photos that are getting them to be refused jobs!! Well detected Sherlock!! Ever think it may also be because of more qualified individuals that also supplied photos? You are just assuming that it's the photos of black men that are getting them to be refused. That is typical of how black men think. Nothing based on who is most qualified but it MUST be because I'm black attitude is nothing more than assumption.
Minorities want to integrate? Well I beg to differ. My references are Chinatowns around the world. I've had waitresses at Dim Sum restaurants that couldn't speak a word of English. If I worked in a restaurant in Japan I couldn't get away without Japanese.
0
rurika
Everton2, then how do you explain that so many second and third generation Lao, Vietnamese and Cambodian immigrants have become professional people in France? Their photos stand out too. I think the difference is that their grandparents and parents raised them to value education and hard work. Again, I agree that racism exists in France but it certainly cannot explain why some minority groups do so much better than others.
0
Everton2
bushlover: you are amazing! "Typical of how black men think" So you know how most black men think? Why? Because you are black.
Please collect yourself. You can make all kinds of ridiculous pronouncements about the absence of racism and it being the victims fault because they overreact.
I am happy that your views are not typical but more social and political contrivances, which don't mean crap in the real world where victims of racism are being made everyday. Before the net came along opinions like yours were normally confined to small town journals with a largely challenged readership. Or perhaps being exposed by a group of emaciated rednecks struggling to find a voice.
The reality is that we did not have to worry about them because of our capacity to forgive and more importantly, no body really took them seriously.
The two black men I mentioned have left France after two years of trying and moved on to have successful careers elsewhere. They just simply got tired of watching other white students they outperformed academically find employment well ahead of them.
0
Everton2
rurika: What are you trying to say? That black people's families don't really teach them any real values. That somehow black people collectively have fallen well short of placing enough value on education? Let me categorically state that you are wrong! Africans in general have a ferocious appetite for education. They also have an amazing capacity to learn languages. Now I don't know if it comes from family re -enforcement or just plain personal observations of the benefits on their part. I suppose you are the expert on black people.
Black people it appears are the most marginalized group on the planet. It comes mainly from the fact that they are naturally feared without justification. As far as your question is concerned I suppose you will have to ask the French people as to why they choose to discriminate against them more that any other group.
0
skipthesong
It comes mainly from the fact that they are naturally feared without justification." Well, I hate to lay it on you, but putting out gangstaer rap videos sure doesn't help.
You say with out justification, then why are Hispanics in L.A., Dallas, and Miami always being jump on? Oh, white too. Stop with that there is no justification, you know damn well that there needs a lot of changes in the black community. If you think that everyone has to give you a pass not matter what you do then you are wrong. YOu have tried that many times and people ain't going for it. Sure, you guys have the upper hand in most cases, but you need to know that all your are really doing is pushing people underground. Now your two friends, sure there was mostly racism behind it, but I think you got it wrong that people are born that way. Quite a bit of fault lies in your own communities and once that is realized, perhaps people will start listening to you. You can start by not defending people like Colin Fergusen, John Muhammoud and the like. Running up and defending OJ - which really turned out to be a waste of time as I am sure you can agree at this point... no, if you want people to hear you out, then change needs to come to you too. I sense though, that is not what you want. I sense you are more down with the idea of a rumble. Isn't that what you want? Look at your posts, I can't see anywhere where you are ok with the idea of living in a multicultural world.
You last line "ask the French people as to why they choose to discriminate against them more that any other group." play with stats and you get what you want.
The White French yes they can, but they need to ask the other parties involved. After all the history lessons we have gotten from Everton2, why would you want to hang out with them?
0
Everton2
skipthesong: I thought the issue was about France, now it is being fused with black people in California. All that pent-up neurosis you have long entertained about black people in general are being revealed here in your post. What is this nose drip about your own community? I live in Australia!
So you have been jumped on by some moronic black people and now it is the fault of all black people and that is the justification to fear them.
This is indeed the kind of challenged logic that promotes hatred and fear of a particular group. A fixed notion that seek to paint an entire group of people with the same brush based on a very narrow perspective.
The overwhelming majority of black people are law abiding citizens who do not subscribe to the lyrics contained in those gangster raps music, nor would I make generalizations about whites on the basis that their kids have spent millions of dollars purchasing gangster rap records.
The narrative about my friends' experiences in France deserved to be told. It was indeed their experience. After nearly 300 applications that never went anywhere and the common factor was the silence that came after the photos were sent. These guys were not gang bangers or gangster rappers. They deserved a chance because they had worked hard. Why on earth do they have to be subjected to the lunatic fears of white people about blacks. If anyone should be scared then I suggest it should be black people based on the experiences they have had in dealing with whites since their contact.
I am going to let this go for now as you clearly don't really understand the issue
0
skipthesong
So you have been jumped on by some moronic black people and now it is the fault of all black people and that is the justification to fear them." I don't get jumped but attempts have been made. But I have seen and know quite a few, especially when I was in the army. You point about some moronic.... well, why don't that work the other way around? Why is France's White people so evil, yet who the heck was setting cars on fire? BTW, I would prefer not even to make the call, but when I hear "we are so innocent and all of you are so bad crap, I feel compelled to make a statement. You don't seem to hide your feelings, its ok you can come out and say it loud.
I welcomed your narrative about your friends, but did you go further and see if any fat people didn't get the job, if the job wasn't already promised to someone else? France ain't got a lot of good going on, so why should protectionist go up? Additionally, they probably worked hard and even were the best. Look at it a different way, and maybe they should have created their own firm.
You call the fears of many whites against blacks lunatic, but come on, that fear is almost like cash in the bank. Would you want it the other around?
They deserved a chance because they had worked hard" Only them? How about the others who have worked hard as well? Again, France ain't the best place to get a job in the first place.
Its arguments like this "I am owed" that keeps the feelings and those fears you talk about going on./
0
Nessie
The exact quote:
"If zee yanquis have zee blek preyzidan, we uwill have also zee blek preyzidan. Bet ours uwill be blekker, bien sur. Twice as blek as zee yanqui preyzidan. Beaucoup de blek. He will be as blek as zee night is long. Les gouts et les couleurs ne sont discutent pas! Viva la France! Sautee les coulottes! Appellation controlee!"
0
powderfinger
Most of my profs in the fields of post-colonial studies and peace studies named Europe as the culture that basically spread to all those they came in contact with the toxic notions of what we now call racism. Specifically, the three most common and egregious offenders were France, Germany and Great Britain. So I think France is doing some good work with this campaign. The Germans and the British should adopt similar slogans and though they are decades behind try and catch up with the United States. Great Britain especially were all for the end of apartheid and ending racism - when it was thousands of miles away - but at home there is much, much more that could be done. In the age of Obama it is not enought to simply plaster stadium walls with posters admonishing your subjects to say 'No to Racism!'
Back to top