G7 warns Russia of more sanctions if Ukraine crisis escalates

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  • 3

    SuperLib

    Why are they capturing Ukrainian ships?

  • 0

    Triplex

    Why up-coming referendums in Scotland and Catalonia are okay from a viewpoint of mayor powers and similar referendum in Crimea is considered illegal ? Could anybody explain ?

  • -7

    Jeff Ogrisseg

    Way to fan the flames, Reuters. Russia did not start the unrest in Ukraine to order to install the new neo-Nazi government. And Russia did not invade Crimea.The G7 is all cow and no hat.

  • 4

    Reckless

    @Triplex, big difference is that Crimea's "decision" was made at gunpoint with Russian troops in the territory at a leased base and infiltrating in unidentifiable uniforms.

  • 2

    lostrune2

    Why up-coming referendums in Scotland and Catalonia are okay from a viewpoint of mayor powers and similar referendum in Crimea is considered illegal ? Could anybody explain ?

    Being done with the understanding of the governing administrations?

  • 3

    NavyCDR

    Do please let us all know about the Scottish and Catalonian thugs and foreign troops in those two regions. That plus show us their referendums in which "remain as is as current" will not be on their ballot. The Russian thugs, and "covert" troops - I mean really, taking off insignia and wearing face cover? - are not there to promote a status quo, are they?

  • -3

    John Galt

    “The Russian stock market’s down 20 percent this year already. That’s the worst performing index in the world,” spokeswoman Maria Harf told reporters. “That’s $75 billion of market value wiped away, due in large part to the power and reach of our sanctions."

    This makes for a good buying opportunity. One important fact that hasn't been mentioned yet is that most Palladium is mined in Russia and is a very necessary commodity in numerous industries. Were the price to rise suddenly many western businesses would be adversely affected. Another good buying opportunity.

    reckless, your assertion that votes were cast at gunpoint are quite ludicrous. Did you read that in National Enquirer?

    The EUS agitated the unrest in Ukraine. Follow the money.

  • -2

    AKBfan

    G7 should just butt out. Crimea seems happier with Russia than Ukraine (and why not - Ukraine has been a basket case for years).

  • 0

    hokkaidoguy

    Triplex - Every nation in the G7 has been dealing with separatism issues for years - one of the few things that keeps countries like Canada together is the knowledge that Quebec will not receive any outside help if they decide to leave. The French have the Basque, the Germans have a couple of different groups, the Italians have Sardinia, and on and on. If these groups see that it's only a matter of recruiting outside assistance to secede, the whole system starts to fall apart pretty quickly.

    It's not the only reason why the G7 is so against the Crimea vote and annexation, but it's a very big reason.

  • 1

    praack

    Superlib- Russia needs to capture as much arms as possible from the Ukraine, so right now most of the Ukraine air force and navy are now in russian hands, all army in the area lost all weapons and heavy equipment.

    it is simple- you do not let your enemy have any arms - you take them , especially when you will be taking more of the country soon.

  • 0

    Triplex

    Big difference is that Crimea's "decision" was made at gunpoint in the territory at a leased base

    Strange, I have to say. I have seen lots of youtube videos about Crimea's referendum, in particular, because I think about future of Scotland. I did not recall any scenes where armed Russian would point his gun to civilian. But I saw many people on street of crimea's towns who looked out smiling, chatting with soldiers and waving Russian flags. And I saw various civilian places where people voted, not "army barracks or leased base". Could you be more specific and provide your sources about "decision" made at gunpoint ?

  • -3

    Reckless

    My source is the National Enquirer, same as yours.

  • -12

    YuriOtani

    As long as the Ukrainian military refuses to fight they are doomed.

  • -1

    titiano

    Big difference is that Crimea's "decision" was made at gunpoint in the territory at a leased base

    It seems there is a reason for the armed men to be in Crimea - for self-defence and protection. According to Yulia Tymoshenko (ex-prime minister, now a heavily influental Ukrainian leader), Russia should become a "burned field" and "all 8 million of Russians, living in Ukraine should be killed with nuclear weapon" (March 18, 2014):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te2E1R5YHBI

    (Tymoshenko acknowledged the conversation is authentic)

  • -2

    Nathaw

    YuriOtani Mar. 25, 2014 - 11:36AM JST

    As long as the Ukrainian military refuses to fight they are doomed

    One of Ukraine navy commander has deserted Ukraine navy and joined Russian navy recently. There are many uniformed Ukraine Service Men from Crimea are going to join the Russian Arm Force for not becoming unemployed. Some are ethnic Russians of Ukraine citizens as ethnic Chinese and Korean of Japanese citizens.

    The sad truth about Ukraine was employing many ethnic Russians in Arm Force. If JSDF has been served by ethnic Chinese and Korean, the fight has already over before even it is going to start.

    If you visit to Yokohama and Nagaski, many Japanese Chinese are more Chinese than being Japanese. Their loyalty is questionable like ethnic Russians of Crimea.

  • -1

    titiano

    @YuriOtani

    As long as the Ukrainian military refuses to fight they are doomed.

    First, they cannot fight: Ukrainian defense minister Igor Tenyukh said that the army is in a very bad condition.

    Second - they should not fight: none of their problems (poor and Russia-dependent economy, corruption, poverty, ethnical intolerance, lack of democracy, etc.) is going to be resolved by war.

  • 1

    Triplex

    The Russian thugs, and "covert" troops- I mean really, taking off insignia and wearing face cover?- are not there to promote a status quo, are they?

    Wiki says that Russian military and naval forces were on Crimean peninsula long before civil unrest in Ukranian capital and following referendum in Crimea. Russian military and naval facilities were established there on legal base, under agreement between Russia and Ukraine. So, I suppose that Russians could leave bases and walk around, like Americans do it on Okinawa. Why did you call them "thugs"? Did Russians rob or rape locals? Did they violate a special curfew, established for them?

    It's not the only reason why the G7 is so against the Crimea vote and annexation, but it's a big reason.

    Well, understood. Then why mayor powers approved the annexation of Kosovo ? In that case the G7 did not support a principle of territorial integrity, right? Why they changed their minds in current case with Crimea? Moreover, if Okinawans decide to make a referendum for independence, will they prepare for sanctions or even military aggression from Japan and the USA? What about Democracy and Right for self-determination?

  • -2

    noriyosan73

    People used to worry about who has a nervous finger on the LAUNCH button. No Europe knows who has a finger on the SHUT OFF button for natural gas. The 21st century slave has just met its master - Russia. Threats, sanctions and negative publicity are worthless. The USSR is back, unfortunately. It is an ECONOMIC COLD WAR. Use it, it is the truth.

  • -1

    itsonlyrocknroll

    Hi Triplex,

    Good question,

    Could be prudent to view all the opinions.

    The Moscow Times first.......

    Top 5 Myths About Russia's Invasion of Crimea

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/top-5-myths-about-russias-invasion-of-crimea/495918.html

    Next, Nato Secretary-General View....

    NATO Secretary-General: Russia's Annexation of Crimea Is Illegal and Illegitimate ?

    http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brookings-now/posts/2014/03/nato-secretary-general-russia-annexation-crimea-illegal-illegitimate

    And Finally..

    The LSE View - Crimea referendum – our experts react....

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2014/03/17/crimea-referendum-our-experts-react/

    One crucial factor, the situation has NOT reached the point of no return, a calm reflective assessment is needed, and I hope that contributors to this thread can mince down the links above and present their opinions.

    One last thought both sides are at least talking...

    Crimea crisis: Russia and Ukraine hold first meeting......

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26725659

    Sorry lots to take in but it is worth the read...

  • -3

    WilliB

    The G7 look more and more ridiculous. They have nothing to threaten Russia with... on the contrary, Western Europe totally depends on Russian gas supplies. What do these clowns want? Cut ties to Russia and instead increase dependence on Saudi Arabia?

    And why does the press not point out the hypocrisy of the situation? Western leaders have decided that the Crimea must not vote to split from the Ukraine. Really now. How if Russia start lecturing the UK that Scotland must not vote for independence, least we get sanctions? And how about Kosovo? Did we not actually go to war to split that tiny province from Serbia?

    Hypocrits.

  • 2

    lostrune2

    Triplex - Every nation in the G7 has been dealing with separatism issues for years - one of the few things that keeps countries like Canada together is the knowledge that Quebec will not receive any outside help if they decide to leave. The French have the Basque, the Germans have a couple of different groups, the Italians have Sardinia, and on and on. If these groups see that it's only a matter of recruiting outside assistance to secede, the whole system starts to fall apart pretty quickly.

    And notice that China has been very quiet about this issue.

    Because they know that if Crimea could do their own referendum, Taiwan could do their own referendum - and their friend Russia would not stand against it.

    "Crimean Tatar Community Mourns Death Of Tortured Local Activist"

    http://www.rferl.org/content/crimea-tatar-killing-ukraine-russia-annexation-minority/25301602.html

  • 0

    Laguna

    WilliB, it is not really about the Crimea - everyone knows that the peninsula is now irretrievably part of Russia (and perhaps justifiably so); it is more about deterring Russian adventurism in eastern Ukraine. A good negotiator would not immediately sign off on Russia's Crimean grab even if he were resigned to it in the long term. Let Russia have Crimea but no more.

    Oh, and the idea that Ukraine needs a navy is crazy. They're better off without the expense and should disband that branch of service entirely.

  • 0

    WilliB

    Laguna:

    " it is more about deterring Russian adventurism in eastern Ukraine. "

    How about deterring Western adventurism in Ukraine? The Ukraine is one of the buffer states that are a geopolitical necessity for Russia. Why is the West so hell-bent on exapanding Nato right to the front gates of Moscow?

    Remember the fit that US presidents threw when the Kremlin tried to station nuclear rockets in Cuba? This is the same thing. Russia can only feel secure if it has strategic depth. By trying to take that away, Western governments are pushing Russia into a corner.

    And don´t tell us that the orange movement and all that in the Western Ukraine came about without Western logicistical and financial backing... if you believe that, I have a bridge for sale for you.

  • 0

    Laguna

    I agree with you to a point, WilliB, but the reverse is equally valid: Why would Russia partition a sovereign country just because some of its ethnic brethren live there? Crimea aside, if Russia determines that it is right to carve away eastern Ukraine and the world acquiesces to this, a whole lot of Pandora's boxes will spring open. Also, there is absolutely no chance that Ukraine will qualify for NATO membership anytime soon, or that any missiles will be stationed there. (In fact, Russia's actions have hastened the possibility that missiles will be stationed in Poland at their request, something Obama opposes.)

    Russia is also not in the advantageous position it might imagine. As deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said, the crisis is not a return to the cold war because this time stands alone. "The fact is Russia is leading no bloc of countries. There's no ideological entity, like communism, that Russia is leading that has global appeal. There's no bloc of nations, like the Warsaw Pact, that they're leading. They're isolated in what they're doing in Ukraine. And I think that's very much the message that we want to send at the G7, with the EU, with Nato over the course of the next several days."

    Again, they're welcome to the Crimea. Do you think they should take more?

  • -1

    John Galt

    " And why does the press not point out the hypocrisy of the situation?"

    WillB, do you really expect the hypocritical lapdog media to point out their own hypocrisy?

    It's all about furthering the West's expansion beyond the agreed upon limits of 1994 accord while deflecting blame.

  • -3

    dcog9065

    Good stuff, the West shouldn't let up an inch on Russia. Crimea probably isn't going to be reversed, but in order to prevent the same thing happening in the future, the West should be prepared to completely kneecap the Russian economy and really give them some pain. They've already joined the ranks of North Korea and China, so don't give them a thing until they get in line

  • 3

    WilliB

    Laguna:

    " Why would Russia partition a sovereign country just because some of its ethnic brethren live there? "

    That is a hell of a lot more consistent than Nato and the USA partitioning Serbia just because muslims live in Kosovo!!

    Remember, our politicians where cheering then. The same guys who now insist that Ukraine must stay united (and of course under join Western alliances, contrary to the wishes of a large part of its population.)

    We are pretty good at cherry-picking our principles, are we not?

  • -3

    Laguna

    WilliB, Yugoslavia was under no treaty regarding territorial integrity, while Ukraine most certainly is. You may quibble over the validity of such treaties, but if so, you must disregard the entire world order.

    Furthermore, Slobodan Milošević was only a hair above genocide. The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) concluded that:

    Milošević and others in Serbia had committed a breach of the Genocide Convention by failing to prevent the genocide from occurring and for not cooperating with the ICTY in punishing the perpetrators of the genocide, in particular General Ratko Mladić, and for violating its obligation to comply with the provisional measures ordered by the Court.

    You're welcome to compare Yugoslavia to Ukraine, but do not assign the role of Milošević to any Ukrainian leader; the West is working to see that the next Milošević is not Putin.

  • 2

    WilliB

    Laguna,

    the US and NATO most certainly violated territorial integrity of Serbia, and this was only possible because of an extremely weak Russian leadership at the time.

    And there never was a "genocide" in Kosovo; the crimes committed by both the KLA and the Serbian armee never rose to that level. If the ICTY claims "genocide", they are only demonstrating their political bias.

    You can twist this as you want, but the hypocrisy of the Western leadership in claiming that an anti-Russian united Ukraine borderin Russia (even against the wish of half of its population) must be created is blatant. This from the same people who go to war to split countries if it suits their agenda.... rich.

  • -2

    Laguna

    General historical documentation has it that events in Srebrenica in 1995 included the killing of more than 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys, as well as the mass expulsion of another 25,000–30,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians, in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, committed by units of the Army of the Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of General Ratko Mladić.

    Notice that they were Muslim. It is of little wonder that those concerned did not want Mladić any free hand in Kosovo - remember, he wasn't captured until 2011.

    No hypocrisy at all unless you're a fan of genocide.

  • -4

    itsonlyrocknroll

    So much for the US and EU's 'calm reflective assessment', the view from London is that President Obama is showing all the characteristics of 'growing a set'.

    As much as the west has miscalculated the former KGB Colonel, Ukraine will now seeks a UN vote against Crimean annexation, with that mandate in place the West can unleash it's economic weaponry.

    The US Energy Department announced on Monday that it would sign off exports of LNG from Jordan Cove Oregon, exponentially boosting global gas supply. These shipments will start the process of hedging Europe energy security.

    Capital flight from Russia has increased dramatically to $70bn in the first quarter that will inevitably force Putin to institute capital controls, ad infinitum blocking free trade into and out of Russia, inflicting permanent damaging to the Russian economy. Any inward investment will be snuffed at source.

    European governments for the first time since the EU was formed ordering plans to draw up a 90 day cycle of measures to slash dependence gas supplied from Russia. Raising supplies of imported gas from Norway, and increasing Dutch supply output, EU reliance on Russia gas can be cut to zero in around 10 months. With the spare capacity at a number of Dutch LNG terminals, plus following Japans master class in ways of cutting energy consumption. Europe could save 10 to 15 BCM alone decreasing the temperature in homes by 1.5 - 2.0 degrees.

    By forcing the scale of capital outflows to $100bn per quarter, the Russian central bank has already had to raise interest rates by 150 basic points to prevent a partial collapse of the Rouble, thus asphyxiating the money supply, at this rate in 4 to 5 months the economy will be wrecked.

    Russia’s capital reserves hover around $500bn enough to shore up the Rouble short term, but the central bank will not deploy this money until the economy moves into a full blown recession, intervention at this level will require further severe monetary tightening. Putin will not be on the run however he will be walking briskly.

    China role?

    Now here is an escape route for Putin.......China abstained at the UN, will China stand by Putin, and in turn gift Abe's government a political get out of jail free card, Abe knows how to plays his cards right and wrote the book on degenerate political gambling. Abe will be sipping an extra large Sake tonight.
    Putin looks to Asia as West threatens to isolate Russia.....

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-insight-idUSBREA2K07S20140321

  • -2

    Laguna

    Some good points, itsonlyrocknroll - after all, much of the land north of the Heilungjiang had been in the Chinese sphere for ages until - when? - about the same time that Russia secured the Crimea from the Turks. Perhaps Putin believes that it is time for a review.

  • -5

    itsonlyrocknroll

    Hi Laguna I know my opinion will not be flavor of the month, and it is just an opinion after all. Give Putin your hand and you will pull back a stump from the elbow. The Russian Bear never respected human weakness.

    I blame our Political leadership as much as Putin for their crass political incompetence. What is so infuriating is that the warning signs were there, the history, and the EU weakness to recognize what is right in front of their nose.

    I spend most of my day quant analyzing hedging strategies, Putin is a master strategist, he may come over as a comic character, but he had played a blinder here.

    Will China the world largest Importer of LNG give Putin the escape route? That a call I would not like to make

  • 2

    Laguna

    The whole point is that, to this point, there is no blame. No political leader could have prevented this. Romney reappeared the other day to remind us that he had indicated Russia as America's greatest foe during the debates, but please: Russia threatening America? If he'd been elected president, we'd be at exactly the same situation.

    What happens from here, though, is the question. Putin is not nearly as clever as he seems; he is simply an opportunitist. China won't pan out for him, Russia will suffer from continued isolation, and Russia will have the Crimea.

  • 1

    Serrano

    "A State Department spokeswoman highlighted the economic damage Russia has already suffered due to its action in Crimea, a Russian-majority region, after the fall of Ukraine’s pro-Russian president to months of mass protests.

    “The Russian stock market’s down 20 percent this year already. That’s the worst performing index in the world,” spokeswoman Maria Harf told reporters. “That’s $75 billion of market value wiped away, due in large part to the power and reach of our sanctions.

    “The Russian currency is near an all-time low as investors have lost confidence in the economy and fled into dollars.”

    Let's hear it for Putin! Puuuuuuutin! Puuuuuuuuuuutin!

  • -1

    SuperLib

    WilliB: How if Russia start lecturing the UK that Scotland must not vote for independence, least we get sanctions? And how about Kosovo? Did we not actually go to war to split that tiny province from Serbia?

    and

    John Galt: The EUS agitated the unrest in Ukraine. Follow the money.

    For a couple of guys who pride themselves on providing copious amounts of links and data to support their positions, you both seem to relying on dumbed-down question asking in this particular case.

    WilliB, I've never seen you take a position on anything that didn't involve Muslims and the EU, so my guess is that you're more comfortable with any land that falls into Russian hands since you believe Europe is leading itself into destruction with their Muslim population.

    John, being a paranoid Libertarian, your angle most likely has something to do with the fact that any weakening of your own government, real or perceived, is fine with you, no matter what the price others might have to pay.

    The fact is that I'm talking to a couple of guys who are more than happy to go out of their way to manufacture support for Russia even if you disagree with them in principal. Shoring up support by misleading the low information crowd seems to be your preferred tactic.

  • 0

    itsonlyrocknroll

    Yes agree Laguna, I don't believe this could have been prevented, and a bus load of American Politicians past and present, warned Europe's 'elite' to be aware of Russian hegemony before inviting Ukraine into a associate membership deal, a window of opportunity did presented itself, the 'second language' decision in 2012, I posted this in another thread:

    ' In 2012 a contentious law was passed that allowed the use of "regional languages", that included Tatar, Hungarian, Romanian and crucially Russian, subsequently 13 out of Ukraine’s 27 regions, mostly in the eastern part of the country, rapidly adopted Russian as a second 'official' language.

    The Russian language is spoken by about approximately 24% of the Ukrainian population, whilst approximately 18% of the Ukrainian population are ethnic Russians However temporary repeal of the 2012 law was akin to waving a red rag at a bull, or prodding a Russian bear with the wrong end of a pencil, the fallout from this repeal reached from Ukraine to Moscow and even the European Union winced'.

    Too late now, what's that old adage 'hindsight'.

  • -1

    Bgood41

    "How to annex a country for dummies" Vs. "How to deal with a bully for dummies". The G7 takes the baby step.....

  • -1

    MeanRingo

    Seriously, what does Putin think Crimea is? Robert Kraft's Super Bowl ring?

  • 0

    gcbel

    Fun fact: Putin signed a law that makes spreading separatist views in Russia a crime punishable with up to 5 years in jail.

    http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/30-12-2013/126515-russia_calls_separatism-0/

    While it's probably true that a majority of Crimeans are in favor of Crimea becoming part of the USSR, er, Russia. What's also true is that the manner in which the secession (not "cessation") took place was clearly neither constitutional or legitimate. Claims to the contrary... not so much mistaken as just plain dishonest.

    Any Russian folks care to share if there are any other territories that you were "robbed" of ?

  • 3

    Reckless

    One issue is that US citizens live relatively harmoniously in a diverse country by race, culture, sexual orientation, religion, etc. and idealize that this situation can be replicated anywhere in the world.

  • -2

    zaldaus

    @gcbel

    "Any Russian folks care to share if there are any other territories that you were "robbed" of ?"

    The boundaries of the republics in the USSR were drawn by communist party officials without any regard to ethnic makeup of the areas. Yes, there are quite a few other territories that have always been Russian and that are now under foreign occupational regimes. You seem to be too lazy to read up on the subject, so sit back and enjoy the show. You'll see what these areas are in time.

    As for your bad attempt at scorn and sarcasm, I simply wish that one day YOUR country will be wrecked and divided up, perhaps then we shall see you write your own opinions on how you'd like it glued back again. And then you'll hear my advice on how it should stay broken.

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    The Ukrainian fleet for the most part has surrendered without a fight. They allowed themselves to be blocked in and then captured. I would of gotten my ship out to sea and then relocate to a safe port. My oath to nation would be stronger than a steady job. Now Russia will invade the rest of the Ukraine.

  • 0

    gcbel

    You'll see what these areas are in time. Too shy to share? Poland, again? Moldova? The rest of Ukraine? Umm... The Baltics? Hungary? Aww, give a guy a clue.

    As for your bad attempt at scorn and sarcasm, I simply wish that one day YOUR country will be wrecked and divided up, perhaps then we shall see you write your own opinions on how you'd like it glued back again. And then you'll hear my advice on how it should stay broken.

    Feel free to hold your breath. :-)

  • -1

    Dylan Otoshiro

    lostrune2MAR

    Being done with the understanding of the governing administrations?

    But the problem is that the majority of the people in Crimea wish to be a part of Russia, and the current government in Kiev is the result of a Coup d'état so I don't think unelected officials in Kiev should be any more legitimate than elected MP's in the parliament of Crimea.

  • -2

    sfjp330

    Dylan Otoshiro Mar. 27, 2014 - 06:25AM JST But the problem is that the majority of the people in Crimea wish to be a part of Russia

    How will Russia, a country with the standard of living well below European (despite all the oil revenues), support a new financial black hole, remains a mystery. Thus, it is not surprising that many in Russia say the country needs to focus on its own problems and investment, instead of playing costly invasion games.

  • 0

    Olegek

    zaldaus "Any Russian folks care to share if there are any other territories that you were "robbed" of ?" The boundaries of the republics in the USSR were drawn by communist party officials without any regard to ethnic makeup of the areas

    Yeh - here the real big problem - these "boundaries " were made in Soviet administrative style regardless ethnical identity

    In Soviet Era it was not a problem : first of all people were not Russian Ukrainian Uzbek Kasakhs

    but SOVIET - Comunists internationalists and so on (totally other civilisation)

    After collaps of USSR more than 20 millions Russian discovered that from now - they are second sort people

    New states like Latvia Estonia Uzbekistan were totally nationalistic

    So all thse things - results of Soviet boundaries and USSR sudden disintegration

    SO it is not historically Ukraine ( which is 3 times smaller)

    but ex Soviet province Ukraine - Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic

  • 0

    gcbel

    @olegek, yes, we know all this but what do you want?

    With collapse of the USSR it was inevitable that Russians were going to be coming "second sort of people" anywhere Russification hadn't yet resulted in a russian majority. Question is what areas, regions, countries do you Russians believe should return to the Rodina? Would it be possible to be specific? My Baltic friends, for instance, would like to know.

    Should I gather from the above that you want those regions of current eastern Ukraine that have sizable minorities of Russians?

    Shouldn't Chechnya have the opportunity to be independent? Tatars? I realize it might be illegal, or soon be illegal, for a Russian to answer yes to this question... You know, because of the law making it a criminal offense to promote separatism in Russia, punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

  • 0

    Olegek

    gcbel With collapse of the USSR it was inevitable that Russians were going to be coming "second sort of people" anywhere Russification hadn't yet resulted in a russian majority

    1 Russification ??? My friend - one more time - Sovietisation - it's two VERY different things

    Even in Russia during Soviet era it was Sovietisation

    2 Inevitable to be "second sort of people" - I can't understand why ?

    What the problem to built a normal state with human rights and equality of all people before the law ??

    My Baltic friends, for instance, would like to know. Shouldn't Chechnya have the opportunity to be independent? Tatars?

    So it's a big difference between Russia and so-called "civilized" societies

    In Russian Empire / Soviet Union it was one basical principle : all people have the same

    rights regardless their nationality

    You know that in British Empire it were first sort people, second sort people, third sort ... and so on

    like in Nazi Germany

    the same thing for modern Baltic states - where each year Nazi parades took place

    Did you know about this ?

    What do you think about this and 3 th Reich ideology ?

    In short :are all the the nation are equal or some nations are "better" than other ?

    How to say - more " democratic"

    and others - worse - rogue states .....

  • 0

    gcbel

    Again, still no answer to my question. After Crimea, what else do you want? what other territories do you want to have as part of your country, the Russian Federation?

    a) the following... b) no other countries c) or what seems to be Zaldaus' repsonse - Vladimir Putin will let you know

    Other question, are you prepared to allow those nationalities that are now part of the Russian Federation the possibility to exercise their right to self-determination? and, eventually separate if they wish to?

    1 Russification ??? My friend - one more time - Sovietisation - it's two VERY different things

    I'm speaking of the immigration of ethnic Russians to non-Russian republics during the Soviet era, my friend. Also the linguistic Russification of these non-Russian republics.

    2 Inevitable to be "second sort of people" - I can't understand why ? I guess it depends what we're talking about - I mean an ethnic minority in a new country as opposed to part of the Russian majority in non-Russian republic or region of the Soviet Union.

    As for 3rd Reich, Nazis, parades in Baltic states, what's your point? what are you trying to say? Should we discuss the crimes visited on the Poles, the Crimeans, the Ukrainians, Afghanistan... by Stalin and his successors? Of course there's a historical context with more than one side to it. Is it that you're trying to say that ethnic Russians are oppressed minorities suffering the lingering resentment of the non-Russian populations of now free former soviet republics and that they deserve Russian protection.

    Thank you to please start with the first 2 questions above. Not sure why it's so hard to say "we want..." and "no, Chechnya will forever be part of the Russian Federation and separtist discussion should be severely punished".

  • 0

    Olegek

    gcbel Again, still no answer to my question. After Crimea, what else do you want? what other territories do you want to have as part of your country, the Russian Federation? a) the following... b) no other countries c) or what seems to be Zaldaus' repsonse - Vladimir Putin will let you know

    1 USA has about 800 military bases around the world and constantly starting/ preparing new wars on

    independent nation . Tell me why ?

    Is it not the main threat to Human Civilization?

    when at last Yankees will leave home?

    2 This was a reaction - at the US supported nationalist putsch in Ukraine

    US invested billions in Ukrainian "opposition" but failed to bring it to power

    Only one last decision - putsh (democratic one)

    So NO putsh - no invasion in Crimea

    Ukrainiane politicians must thank their American friends for this situation

    I'm speaking of the immigration of ethnic Russians to non-Russian republics during the Soviet era, my friend. Also the linguistic Russification of these non-Russian republics.

    So Kazakhstan - less than half of population was Kazakh in 1991

    ethnic relations quite normal today

    Most of population today speak Russian

    Ukraine - in 1991 almost each inhabitant spoke Russian

    But - collapse as a result we have

    So Russian language skills- is not a criteria

    Byelorussia today speaks mostly Russian

    Stable independent state

    Russification such Russification

    That fact that I understand English does not make me a supporter of the U.S.

    rather the contrary

    As for 3rd Reich, Nazis, parades in Baltic states, what's your point? what are you trying to say?

    Your question was about safety of your Baltic friends

    So West generally quite loyal to the Nazis

    Russian are NOT

    So the more Nazi parade they have the close Russian tanks

    Can you catch my idea ?

    NO Nazi ! and all goes well without Russian tanks...

    Is it so hard to fulfill ?

    ethnic Russians are oppressed minorities

    Is it not so in Latvia and Esstonia ?

    one third of the population - aliens

    What these good people waiting from nation which crashed Hitler & Napoleon ??

    Flowers ?

  • 0

    gcbel

    @olegek

    You didn't answer the question,

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