Gates says it's not time for U.S. to leave Afghanistan

Friday 04th September, 07:00 AM JST

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Jaegger at 11:36 AM JST - 4th September

Well, come on mothers throughout the land, Pack your boys off to Afganistan. Come on fathers, don't hesitate, Send 'em off before it's too late. Be the first one on your block To have your boy come home in a box
adaydream at 11:50 AM JST - 4th September

kwatt

I think Taliban will never accept American democracy.

I didn't think we were trying to get the Taliban to become democratic. I thought we were trying to stop the Taliban and bring them down in strength and influence. < :-)
Mittsu at 11:52 AM JST - 4th September

We will never sort this out. Both history of Afghanistan and history of the many previous wars trying to impose "Western values" on an unwilling populace are strong indicators that this one will fail too.
Mittsu at 11:53 AM JST - 4th September

plus, if Gates is so sure, what is he doing about it?
tkoind2 at 12:29 PM JST - 4th September

There are always consequences to actions. We are now living those consequences and have been since 911.

Our goal should be to diminish the strength of the Taliban and allow the Afghans to determine their own destiny. The Taliban do not represent the majority view in Afghanistan. And failure to support Afghan change now may have far more bloody and painful blow-back in the future.

Bush started this war and we now have no choice but to find a reasonable end to it. Abandoning Afghanistan is not an option as the implications for nuclear armed Pakistan would invite a future conflict to prevent nukes from falling into the hands of a radical Islamist state.

Like it or not, we have to see this through. It is the right thing to do, but it must be done intellengently and with the long term interests and wishes of Afghans first in mind.
kwatt at 12:56 PM JST - 4th September

No countries even the US could extirpate all radical, extreme Taliban if we think those people are problem to plant a stable peace and a democracy among many Islamic tribes in Afghanistan. Radicals do not want such a peace given by western countries. They want to get organized Afghanistan by their own way and want to make a peace there by their own way. Taliban say that Afghanistan used to be a poor country but a peaceful country before invasion of Soviet, the US,,,,.
tkoind2 at 01:25 PM JST - 4th September

Afghanistan used to be a very liberal country and was very much a dynamic society before the Soviet invasion. With proper attention it may have become so again after their defeat. But the world, satisfied by the Soviet withdrawal, turned its back on Afghanistan and left it to long dragged out civil war that ended in Taliban rule and Al Qaida bases.

If we leave now, the Taliban will take over. Not because they are loved and wanted by the Afghan masses. But because they have the military power to do so. And then they will turn their attention to the collapse of the Pakistani secular government. That means nuclear weapons coming into the hands of a government that would be unacceptable by European and American standards. The risk would be that India or any number of other nations that felt that threat would act against Taliban ruling Pakistan resulting in a war in two countries. And essentially a whole new start to the conflict.

No my friends we cannot go backwards now without a price far higher than the one we are paying today. The tribes and the people want stability and the opportunity to prosper. That is what we have to deliver and provide security for. Once the average Afghan feels the impact of this singular change, resistance against the militants will skyrocket. But first people need to feel there is a future worth risking their lives for.

We achieve this through security for schools, for business development, for the restoration of services and for infrastructure. This means active security provided by western countries. Then, once better established, the Taliban moderates will put down their arms. Many already express this desire in reaching out to negotiate via the Saudis.

The extremist will fight on, but there is little anyone can do about that but to make it harder for them to do so. And that means giving the tribal areas hope through autonomy, support, viable economic options and infrastructure.

There really are only two choices. War for stability today or war to prevent a nuclear arms catastrophy tomorrow if we leave today.
Beelzebub at 02:45 PM JST - 4th September

Afghans are caught in a vicious cycle of their own making, and have no future but more shootings, floggings, bombings and bumper crops of opium poppies. They should take lessons from Pol Pot, that would at least make the killing operations more efficient.
tkoind2 at 03:34 PM JST - 4th September

"of their own making.' How do you arrive at that conclusion without ignoring cause and effect?

The Taliban were born in the refugee camps around Peshawar where radical Islamists preyed upon angry disillusioned young people who had lived their entire lives in exile from the Soviet war. A war not caused by the Soviets in their expansionist plans and lengthened by US support for the Muhjahadin.

When the Taliban returned home they saw everyone as complicit in their long suffering and imposed an extreme regime. Without the Soviets and US intervention the Taliban would never have existed.

As for opium. The poor in that country have very little say over their economic welfare. There are no jobs, farms are robbed by warlords and Taliban leaving the residents with only opium as an option to hold off starvation and the drug lords to provide them and their families with protection.

Implement the same conditions in Idaho and you will get the same results. People need to eat, need to have security and need to live. If the drug warlords can provide these things then people will accept. If a proper government can replace these things, then people will accept. But expecting people to just die rather than do such things is naive at best.

We have to care about this country and try to bring real change. Or it will come back to haunt us.
rajakumar at 03:36 PM JST - 4th September

Time for US to set deadline year to leave,the Taliban will slow down and wait for the deadline year to come. The taliban afghans are masters of long years warfare.

Hamid Karzai and his governance must deal with taliban ,once this deadline year to end afghan intervention starts.

Many nations with opium poppy/cocaine industries have insurgent separatists. Chaos and anarchy is norm,where they have these poppy/cocaine industries. Drug cartels spread the money to make this kind of lawless/war situations.

To have law and order,will mean demise of income of Drug cartels and their supplier nations.

Law and order can only be made via afghans themselves.
SuperLib at 04:28 PM JST - 4th September

Afghanistan doesn't really need to be one of anything. It can be patchwork, as long as it keeps the Taliban at bay. I don't think the US or anytone really cares about a tribe somewhere in Afghanistan as long as they aren't working with the Taliban and not growing opium. The US, Afghan government, and the tribe can all live separately in peace as far as everyone's concerned.

For everyone else, there should be a democracy that they can believe in and participate in, if that's what they choose to do. The corruption is something that has to stop, it's counterpriductive to everything that happens on the ground. There has to be some kind of credible authority figure in Afghanistan to control areas that need to be controlled, and they also need to have the ability to go after the Taliban if they start to gain ground again in any part of the country.

Afghanistan doesn't need to be conquered, it needs to be managed. The Taliban can't be 100% eliminated and 100% of the tribal groups aren't interested in working with the Afghan government or the Taliban.
tkoind2 at 05:18 PM JST - 4th September

Agreed that the drug trade as to go. But you need to replace it with something viable and security to make sure it isn't forced back. That is the challenge.

Agreed SuperLib. The tribes don't want any of us there. If we can give them good reason to side with the effort to improve the nation, they will certainly side against the Taliban to reduce the violence.

Finally. Rajakumar, don't confuse the old Mujahadin and the Taliban. They are not the same. The Taliban are a new group who managed to take power. But many Afghans see them as outsiders born and raised in Peshawar and the NWFP of Pakistan. If they can be isolated and security improved, people will start to reject them. And late joiners to the Taliban ranks are likely to defect to home. But again, it is all about making the country secure.
rajakumar at 06:29 PM JST - 4th September

tkoind2- Making afghanistan secure,is what it is all about,you say.

I think this mission is a long run mission and may take years?

I think it will take very long and don't know if US/EU have enough will power and can do this job.

It is a very long run thing and requires plenty of constant corrections/patience/improvements/money and many other requirements .

In the long run,things may get better,but the US/EU need to stay for the long run and that is many years.

We do not know how years it will take,but could be very long. This afghanistan security mission,may take decades.
SuperLib at 08:12 PM JST - 4th September

This afghanistan security mission,may take decades.

Yep. My guess is that NATO will be involved in Afghanistan for the rest of our lives. It's just another front on terrorism and it's a cost just like the costs we pay for counter-terrorism in any other part of the world.
hamiltontruther at 08:39 PM JST - 4th September

Why leave? The Taliban and its Al Qaeda connections have not been defeated by NATO forces yet.
In all reality I doubt the Taliban will ever be defeated as the the ideology will live on, however they need to be set back a lot more than they are now.