Gaza tunnels back in business
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0
adaydream
The tunnels linking the Gaza Strip with Egypt are back in business, despite the hundreds of tons of bombs and missiles Israeli dropped on them.
Did the borders open? How are they supposed to get food and aid in? Unless the borders are opened with a valid monitoring system, then less tunnels would be dug. < :-)
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SuperLib
Finally, the people of Gaza have their potato chips.... I read a story on the BBC about the break in the wall with Egypt where hundreds of Gazans poured through to get supplies. What did they get? One guy got a new scooter saying he was happy he could get back and forth to work faster. Most other people had cigarettes.
For the better part of a year we've heard that Gaza is on the brink of collapse. Supplies are running out and people are in need. But seeing what they buy with their tunnels and walls breaks makes me wonder what the situation really is. And hearing about a UN warehouse with tens of millions of dollars in aid makes me wonder as well.
Just like the Jewish ghettos of WWII, eh?
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Helter_Skelter
The "Palestinians" completely destroyed the real multi-million dollar greenhouses that were donated to them by philanthropists after Israel left Gaza. Heaven forbid the "Palestinians" should be productive and actually create something. Wouldn't want to lose that victim status that pays and sells so well in the first-world.
And what's up with the cigarettes? The UN is generously donating food, and they're out buying cigarettes at black market prices. How many innocent "Palestinian" civilians are being killed by lung cancer?
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likeitis
Darn it! Why can't these pesky Gazans just be happy with their war rations! Why, during WWII everybody in my country gave up luxuries like cigarettes, chocolate, potato chips, etc etc. and survived on barley alone! They would not even accept war rations. Too rich.
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sabiwabi
That is the story chose to write... But I saw on BBC a similar (same?) story about a Gazan importing a scooter, another cigarettes, and another brought in medicines and powdered milk for his kids. I guess his kids haven't had milk or medicine for a while.
I have also seen reports from hospitals in Gaza. Terrible conditions, and cigarettes, scooters, and chips is not what they needed.
There is no reason why they should not be able to import stuff freely. Its like one big concentration camp and everything imported must first go through the camp guards.
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likeitis
What a mild opinion! When imports of cigarettes and potato chips are referred to as "smuggling", does that not set off alarm bells in your brain? Not even when people declare that they will end this "smuggling"? And this guy is like "Well, I don't think..."
Well, we would not want an Israeli soldier getting any cigarette burns from a Hamas militant, or captured and force fed potato chips, cause those things can cut the inside of your mouth! Imagine if they had lemon juice too!
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likeitis
Next thing you know this uppity SOB is going to be wanting a BMW to get to work! If getting to work takes so much time, why not just quit the job and spend more time with the family! Darn selfish Gazans! Doesn't he know that working is a luxury? He should be happy to walk, no matter the distance! Why my Grandpa had to walk 20 miles to work, and it was 30 miles back. Both ways were uphill too! I doubt this clown could possibly have it half as hard as my Grandpa did.
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SezWho2
SuperLib,
No, it's more like ice cream cones in Iraq.
I think that when the media reports that the Palestinians bring in potato chips and motor scooters, they want us to understand that they even bring in potato chips and motor scooters. I don't think the list was meant to be exclusive.
I'm not sure if you are suggesting that there are not shortages of food or medicine in Gaza. That would surely contradict what people have been saying for some time now and particularly since the forced rupture of the Palestinian government. It would also contradict what the Palestinians say (of course the would say that, wouldn't they?) as well as what independent observers such as the IRC say.
I think they probably bring in what they can get and what people have a demand for. Depending on the degree to which Egypt is clamping down on supplies at Israel's request, however, it might be easier to bring in potato chips than penicillin.
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sabiwabi
Strange story to be reading after over 1000 innocent deaths. Anyway I wonder why there is no mention of this snack bar, on the other side, for Israeli tourists getting a panoramic view of the carnage: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjw8U0AcH4Q&eur
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SezWho2
Helter_Skelter,
When it comes to "victim status" nobody outdoes the Israelis, who owe the existence of the state of Israel to first-world sympathy.
Yes, some small portion of Israel has been subject to rocket attacks. That can't be a comfortable way to live. But I'd invite a comparison between the destruction in Israel and the destruction in Gaza. I'd even invite a comparison between the pre-June-2007 Gaza and present day Israel prior to its bombardment and invasion. Gaza was not Club Med.
0
bobbafett
Meanwhile Khaled Meshaal who shouts "Hamas is legitimate by struggle, and Jihad this and martyr that, and victory can only be obtained by blood" is enjoying olives, fruits and wine in his luxury condo in Syria.
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SezWho2
bobbafett,
I'm not sure what your point is, but I don't think the President was eating field rations in the White House nor did anyone have a reasonable chance of dropping a missile on his head.
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bobbafett
what does he have to do with it? stay on topic.
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pointofview
If they have to smuggle things in then they must need supplies to get by. I don
t know a place in the world that wouldnt resort to smuggling if all other "common" means of receiving goods were cut off. Human nature.0
Helter_Skelter
Sezwho
Israelis have been killed and injured by those rocket attacks. Gee, kind of uncomfortable.
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likeitis
He said an uncomfortable way to live, because the dozen or so killed by the thousands of rockets amounts to a handful compared to all those who live in terror of the rockets.
Oh well, at least they don't have to dig a tunnel just to get potato chips!
I said it before and I will say it again: I would rather live in Sderot than Gaza city.
0
wuzzademcrat
Just to check:
The entire Arab world is up in arms about the situation in Gaza, and yet with all their petro-dollars they turn away from their oppressed brethren there with a 'Let them eat potato chips' refrain?
I'll try and get worked up.
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SezWho2
bobbafett,
I think think it is on topic to observe that Meshaal had probable reason to assume that Israel would be altogether willing to target a missile on his head while in Gaza. We in the US make the same presumption and secure our leaders when under attack.
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SezWho2
Helter_Skelter,
Yes, they have. No one disputes that. For those injured and for the families of those killed I would say that there is more than a kind of discomfort.
However, for the many Israelis who are not in reach of the rockets, there is only discomfort. For the people in Gaza, the destruction and the suffering is significantly more widespread.
If I had to choose, and other things being equal, I'd rather be in Israel both now and before Hamas was elected. Wouldn't you?
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bobbafett
Sezwho, I disagree. Meshaal is calling for people to martyr themselves from his life of luxury and he is a terrorist.
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sabiwabi
Indeed, a few allegedly have. But more Palestinians have died due to the blockade and infinitely more (1300, including hundreds of children) have died from this last carnage, whose main purpose was to show to the Arab world how tough Israel is.
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likeitis
You tell us. Can they send aid through Israel, or is it necessary to dig a tunnel? Do you reckon they trust Israel if the aid can pass through them?
But of course, if they do pledge money and aid, you will call it a cover for weapons smuggling. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
Let's be clear...you are suggesting it is possible that no Israelis have been killed in rocket attacks? That is what it seems like you are suggesting.
Well, I disagree with the "main purpose" of your statement as the "Arab world" (I assume you mean other Middle Eastern states as Iran is not part of the 'Arab World') already knew how tough Israel is. Lebanon in 2006 might not have had the outcome Olmert claimed it would before they went in. However to claim Hezbollah won then or that Hamas won now is kind of like claiming Vietnam won the American War with the US...the victim count and damage tell another story...
Israel went in to attempt to weaken Hamas before the eyes of the Gazan people. My guess is that they were more successful at that in the short term than Hamas will give Israel credit for. After all, claiming victor after so much suffering is much like rubbing salt in a wound.
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kinniku
likeitis,
I have a suggestion. Why don't the other Middle Eastern countries offer "carrots" (from another of our discussions) to Hamas to find a peaceful solution to the situation. There certainly is a history of Middle Eastern countries offering encouragement to "keep up the fight". Yet, that really hasn't helped...it has only made things worse.
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Helter_Skelter
Of course SezWho. In fact I'd rather be in Israel than any Muslim Arab nation. So what's your point?
0
sabiwabi
Oh, what a terrible thing to suggest!
The Lebanese lost, but not Hezbollah. The expulsion of the IDF by Hezbollah in 2000 was a humiliating defeat for Israel. Israel planned for the next round, and found a pretext in 2006 when Hezbollah captured two soldiers to exchange for Lebanese prisoners held by Israel. Israel suffered yet another terrible defeat in round 2. As Finkelstein puts it:”in the final stages of the 2006 war it fought not in defiance of a U.N. ceasefire resolution but in the hope of a U.N. resolution to rescue it.”
One major reason for the slaughter was to show off Israel's might. As Israel targeted schools, mosques, hospitals, ambulances, and UN sanctuaries, as it slaughtered and incinerated Gaza's defenseless civilian population (one-third of the 1,200 reported casualties were children), Israeli commentators gloated that "Gaza is to Lebanon as the second sitting for an exam is to the first -- a second chance to get it right,"
Another reason was Israel's great fear of Hamas' Peace Offensive. In March 2008 Khalid Mishal, head of Hamas's Political Bureau, stated: "There is an opportunity to achieve a Palestinian national consensus on a political program based on the 1967 borders, and this is an exceptional circumstance, in which most Palestinian forces, including Hamas, accept a state on the 1967 borders....There is also an Arab consensus on this demand, and this is a historic situation. But no one is taking advantage of this opportunity. No one is moving to cooperate with this opportunity. Even this minimum that has been accepted by the Palestinians and the Arabs has been rejected by Israel and by the U.S."
It would be only a matter of time before international pressure would be exerted on Israel to negotiate and settle the Israel-Palestine conflict. This terrifies Israel!
Moderator: Back on topic please. Posts that do not refer to the story will be removed.
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likeitis
Because Israel controls the carrots the Palestinians are interested in? I do not think the M.E. countries can make Israel give up those carrots. The United States can.
I am not of the opinion that Hamas is such a puppet of other nations. I think they would take this stance no matter what Arab and Persian nations do. I think the only influence those nations have over Hamas is the stick, as in no more aid. But that aid does not seem to be enough to amount to much of a stick.
Do you have an idea of a carrot that they could offer?
0
likeitis
Same as mine I expect: The rockets are no joy, but they are not all that terrible either. Or is your reason for preferring to be in Israel the alcohol prohibition of Muslim nations, no alcohol being your personal hell?
0
sailwind
Except if you just happen to under one when it lands. But if your an Israeli you just have to put up with it I suppose. Jews have been targets of progroms and even a Genocide for all of their collective history, what's a few rockets then?
0
Helter_Skelter
Yeah, what county can't live with a few thousand rockets being launched at their citizens. Pussies.
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Helter_Skelter
likitis, you act as if stupidity were a virtue. Is it intentional?
0
sabiwabi
That is also true about lightning!
Are you saying Hamas is firing rockets at Israel because they are Jewish? Me think not! If that was the case, and if they are backed by Iran as some people are saying, why wouldn't Iran fire rockets at its own Jews?
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sharky1
Bet they don't know those chips were cooked in pork lard.
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sailwind
Nah, Hamas is firing rockets at the Jewish state because they happen to be Buddhists. They just hide it well.
0
Sarge
Next headline:
Southern Israel hit with rockets from Gaza
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likeitis
Made me LOL! But I am sure they have halal chips.
0
sabiwabi
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sabiwabi
Yep, halal chips, or maybe the eaters are Christian, atheist,...
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Helter_Skelter
Yes, but Islamic terrorists are equal opportunity murderers. They murder Jews, Bhuddists, Christians, Hindus, and even other Muslims. All religions welcome.
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likeitis
Heavens no! I expect no Israeli to tolerate such a thing! I expect them to move. To Jerusalem, to Tel Aviv, or even to Russia or Germany or whereever in the world they came from. The only reason an Israeli tolerates rockets is because they choose to. But when the far bigger bombs hit Gaza Strip, the Palestinians can't get out.
I remember one of the vids posted back in December about Israelis suffering rocket attacks. It opened with an Israeli guy who was complaining about there not being enough shelters in Sderot. His first words were something like "Hi, I just moved here to Sderot last month..." I guess that guy doesn't mind rocket attacks all that much. Too bad the mod had to go and erase that one.
Anyway, I would be money they will get hit again. I bet they know it too. But they won't leave.
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likeitis
Pretty soon I fear we might hear somebody slip and claim that Israelis steal land because they are Jewish. No, the source of the feud is not religion, but religion does grease the wheels of violence very well.
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Helter_Skelter
You do have a point. If Israel really wanted to end the rocket attacks, they could do it in an afternoon. It's absurd that they've allowed Hamas terrorists to launch these rockets for years, and STILL haven't taken care of the problem. What a bunch of wimps..
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sabiwabi
Indeed, every new Jewish immigrant must decide whether receiving the generous financial incentives (paid for by US taxpayers) is worth putting up with rockets. Some continue to chose to move there.
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sabiwabi
You do have a point. Israel could put an end to the rockets in an afternoon by simply treating the Palestinians as human beings.
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SuperLib
When Hamas starts acting like human beings then they should be treated like human beings. Last I heard their victory celebration had quite a fizzle to it.
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SezWho2
bobbafett,
As long as the people in Gaza are willing to have Meshaal in Syria enjoying what you imagine to be a life of luxury, I don't see why that's any skin off your nose. All organizations protect their leaders.
Meshaal is the leader of Hamas which is classified as a terrorist organization by Israel, the US, two other countries, I believe, and the EU. So "is terrorist" seems to be an assessment--and one which is not unpolitically driven.
I'm very clear that you don't like the man. But, aside from simply acquiescing to the demands of Israel and the US, which is not going to happen, what would you have him do?
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SezWho2
Helter_Skelter,
I should think the point would have been obvious. For all its cries of pain, Israel is hurting comparatively less than the people in Gaza--both now and before the rocket attacks.
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bushlover
Here comes the much needed food, medicine and ammunition.
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bobbafett
I would have him do what he asks.
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kinniku
SezWho2,
I hope you don't mind my jumping in as I am aware that you asked another person this question. My take is that there are large divides in the attitudes of the Hamas leadership in Gaza and in exile in Syria. The exiled leaders are more hard-line that even those in Gaza. In my opinion, it is easier to be 'hard-line' when you are away from the fighting...
0
kinniku
What financial incentives do you think people are getting for being in the target of the rockets? The rockets are going into Israel, not the occupied territories. I believe the special incentives I believe you are referring to apply to the West Bank, not Israel...That is why some choose to move to the West Bank (although it is not the only reason).
0
kinniku
Don't worry. I am not offended. I just thought it was a strange thing to write considering I would doubt Hamas would use the words 'alledged' in this case.
Anyway, I thought you said much worse in September of 2006 when you wrote:
So, your writing 'alledged' doesn't really faze me. I just wanted to check what you meant and asked why you would not believe anyone was killed by the rockets?
Israel was not 'expelled'. They left. Had they wanted, they certainly could have stayed as long as they desired. What was humiliating for Israel was the horrible planning of the 2006 war, which of course was spurred on by Hezbollah thinking they could capture IDF soldiers to bargain with. As you know, I used a source we both use to show you Hezbollah did capture the soldiers in Israel, not in Lebanon as you previously claimed.
Khalid Mishal offered a 10 year truce (hudna) in exchange for the West Bank and the Gaza strip. He was not offering peace. In fact, he further stated that Hamas would never formally recognize the State of Israel. Now, I know you agree with Khalid Mishal's feelings about never recognizing Israel. However, that is not what peace between nations means...
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kinniku
Well, the incentives I am talking about are aid and money to convince Hamas to negotiate with Israel. There has been little or none of that and little or no offers of that...
As I wrote above, money and aid should be promised to be given to Hamas if they negotiate. I have not really seen much financial encouragement towards Hamas to make peace from Muslim nations.
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YuriOtani
figures, this explains why the Egypt border is closed. The authorities in Egypt must share in the profits of the smuggling!
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bishamonten
Here we go again, Gasa gets back to smuggling (whatever), Israel hits some of the tunnels, Hamas gets back to firing rockets, Israel attacks again.
This is one thing we can be guaranteed of while another is that the anti-Israeli Hamas supporters here (who pretend not to be) will get back to seeing ONLY Israel as being responsible.
The Palestinians were given a hard lesson but were too stupid to have learned anything from the last few weeks. Hamas will lead them to their graves & like sheep they will follow. But the Hamas supporters should not worry or grieve, they will all be happy little martyrs. Just as Hamas told them they would be.
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sailwind
You Gonna help with the bill? Moving a whole country isn't cheap.
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Helter_Skelter
Sabi, the problem is, some aren't. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Brigade, Tanzim, The Palestine Liberation Front,...
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AlfGarnett
The tunnels are nearly all used to get supplies of foods, nothing more nothing less, it aint no big deal. Well done Gazans, trying to get their lives back to normal after the awful genocide.
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bishamonten
"Gazans, trying to get their lives back to normal"
Firing rockets again is "normal" for some demented nutters.
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AlfGarnett
bishamonten: The article is showing the hard work of teh Gazans, getting their lives back to normal.
Them rocket threats is a Jewish propaganda fallacy. Hardly any danger to live. I suggest watching BBC instead of Fox news.
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Helter_Skelter
So those videos of rockets being launched out of Gaza that I've seen on BBC news aren't real?
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SezWho2
kinniku,
I don't at all mind your jumping in.
You say that it's easier to take a hard line when you're away from the fighting. I don't think that was the point at issue, but I agree.
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