Happiness, tears as Palestinians greet hundreds of freed prisoners

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  • -1

    SuperLib

    Such a lovely, touching article (for murderers).

  • -1

    Ben_Jackinoff

    “Some described Shalit’s captivity as a worthless adventure but today they are proven wrong,” he told the cheering thousands gathered at the welcome rally.

    Yeah, let's forget all those Palestinians that were killed because of this. In fact, let's celebrate and do it again!

  • 2

    DS

    This situation shows the relative value placed on human life by both sides, though. One Israei is worth 1000 Palestinians. Or, one Palestinian is worth 1/1000 of an Israeli. Could you ever see the Palestinians trading 1000 Israelis for one Palestinian prisoner?

    To paraphrase the late Golda Meir, "there can only be peace when the Palestinians love their own children as much as they hate Israel's"

    Only hope that Mossad installed tracking bugs on the thugs and murderers they released, and can borrow a few drones from Obama....

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    How was Shalit captured? Bet he won't make that mistake again.

  • -1

    Notthesame

    So were any of these guys jailed on trumped up bullcrap charges?

    Oh, I forgot. This is Israel we are talking about. They would not think of being unfair or oppressing people. Not at all like Cromwell in Ireland. Not at all.

    I am thinking Israel released them because Israel could afford to.

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    I am thinking Israel released them because Israel could afford to.

    I'm thinking this does not make any sense. They could afford to release people who included killers and bombers? What does that even mean?

    Israel is the good guy here even if you don't think they are otherwise. Hamas treat their own people like dirt, get them killed, brag about it and then they say they'll do it again. Pretty hard to get around that no matter how much you might dislike Israel or their policies.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Israel, the only loser here has gone soft kow-towing to the terrorists. They should have located Shalit and bombed the hide-out to oblivion to make a point about kidnapping.

    Not only do the Hamas see the huge reward they can get from such a kidnapping, that bastard actually stood before a supposed crowd of 2 hundred thousand to brag about it.

  • -1

    TakahiroDomingo

    jews freed one single person and paid a terrible price, giving freedom to hundreds of terrorists. is it worth it? YES, one life is worth anything and everything, and it shows one of the virtues of being jewish.

  • 1

    WilliB

    Impossible to describe the press bias. Freed "detainees", good grief. They are all convicted terrorists, most guilty of the multiple murders. Unlike Gilad Shalit, who was kidnapped for no reason other than being was Jewish.

    The Muslim Brotherhood press office could not produce a more glaring piece of propaganda.

  • 1

    WilliB

    nandakamanda:

    " How was Shalit captured? Bet he won't make that mistake again. "

    Kidnapped in Israel by a gang of terrorists from Gaza and dragged back across the border. His "mistake" was simply being there. Incidentally that it the same "mistake" that the various muslim activists accuse Israel of.

  • -1

    Notthesame

    They could afford to release people who included killers and bombers? What does that even mean?

    You seem to have complete faith in Israeli justice, and if they say they are killers and bombers,you believe.

    I don't think I could sell you swamp land on the moon, but perhaps an Israeli could?

  • 0

    DS

    I would trust Israeli justice far more than that doled out by Hamas. Israel pulled OUT of Gaza and this is the thanks they get.

  • 1

    Madverts

    Notsame,

    Trust?

    The Israeli's just swapped 1023 prisoners, probably sworn fundie enemies 'till death do us part, for a kidnapped national?

    And the leader of the Hamas has openly stated what a great idea the kidnapping was in light of their gains.

    I usually sit on the fence but the Hamas have basically shown to all the reasonable people what evil specimens they truly are. Even animals refrain from demonstrating such kind of behaviour.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Israel, the only loser here has gone soft kow-towing to the terrorists. They should have located Shalit and bombed the hide-out to oblivion to make a point about kidnapping.

    Oh, no. The biggest immediate loser is Fatah - Bibi has very cleverly undermined the less extremist wing of the Palestinians inorder to prevent any sort of unity.

    Of course, both Israelis and Palestinians will lose out in the long run. But all Bibi cares about is annexing the West Bank. The stronger the extremists get on both sides, the closer he gets to his goal.

  • -3

    Molenir

    jews freed one single person and paid a terrible price, giving freedom to hundreds of terrorists. is it worth it? YES, one life is worth anything and everything, and it shows one of the virtues of being jewish.

    I see, and so when those 1k people start attacking and murdering Israelis, you will be happy to go to the families of those murdered and tell them that their sacrifice was of course worth it, because 1 Jew was freed, so plenty of other Jewish families can lose their loved ones.

    Oh, no. The biggest immediate loser is Fatah - Bibi has very cleverly undermined the less extremist wing of the Palestinians inorder to prevent any sort of unity.

    I disagree with the point you're making, while admitting that it will have that effect. Even still, the biggest loser in this deal is Israel.

    Whats amazing about this, is that everyone on both sides of the Israel/Pal debate, who normally would be very partisan over their side, right wrong etc, all seem willing to admit, this is a bad deal.

  • 0

    TakahiroDomingo

    @molenir: "...you will be happy to go to the families of those murdered and tell them that their sacrifice was of course worth it.."

    no, i will not be happy. those twisted and perverted thoughts are yours, and i do not share them. what i share is the joy of shalit's family, he is free, after his horrendous 5 years of being hostage to the worst terrorists

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Molenir,

    Bibi could have easily conducted this deal years ago. Ask yourself, why now? Why now after years of "we will not negociate with terrorists" rhetoric does Bibi turn around and hand over 1000 detainees - including personages accused of murder and terrorism? Could it possibly have anything to do with the resurgance of Fatah and the non-violent push for recognition of statehood in the UN? Hamas was crumbling and the moderates (such as they are) were winning. Bibi's just given Hamas a huge shot in the arm. Why? Bibi is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

  • -1

    Ben_Jackinoff

    Triumvere,

    What gives you the idea this deal could have been done years ago? Is it perhaps the fact that it was tried and talks revolving around this failed time and time again?

    Fatah certainly has not had much of a 'resurgance' and Hamas was certainly not 'crumbling', especially in Gaza. There was no evidence of a serious attempt at unity between Fatah and Hamas. Hamas stands against any peace deals with Israel and any recognition of Israel.

    Israel wanted their soldier back. They have paid this same type of price to get others back. It is not unusual though one can question whether it wise of Israel to do so. Certainly an Israeli soldier is sure of the fact their country is willing to make huges sacrifices for them just as they must make huge sacrifices for their country.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Fatah certainly has not had much of a 'resurgance' and Hamas was certainly not 'crumbling', especially in Gaza

    Your facts are dead wrong.

    Hamas' support in Gaza was at an all time low. Polls show they would have been kicked out of if the last election cycle would have been held, so Hamas simply didn't allow the election. Meanwhile, a non-violent moderate movement has been building in the west bank and Fatah's push to get recognition in the UN has made it very popular with Palestinians in both territories.

    Hamas has been looking for a prisioner exchange for years. It's why they captured Shalit in the first place.

    I'll ask again, why now?

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    Hamas' support in Gaza was at an all time low.

    In Gaza? Fatah was popular in Gaza? Are you sure it was not merely Fatah's UN move that provided temporary support? After all, people have been claiming Hamas support has been waning in Gaza for some years now. Yet, not much has actually changed on the ground in Gaza. There certainly are not protests against them in Gaza.

    so Hamas simply didn't allow the election.

    That's okay, if they had allowed it, they would have shot anyone that did not vote for them or that campaigned against them.

    Anyway, you have not pointed to anything leading anyone to see Hamas wanting unity with Fatah.

    Hamas has been looking for a prisioner exchange for years.

    What were their original conditions? How many did they want to exchange?

    I'll ask again, why now?

    Because both sides agreed on the conditions of release. As I said, it has been done many times before and before Netanyahu was PM. They wanted their soldier back and believed they would get him back, so they made a trade.

    Now prove your 'facts' that Netanyahu wants to prevent Palestinian unity and that is the sole reason for him making this deal.

  • 1

    Ben_Jackinoff

    BTW, speaking of dead wrong, as one example in 2007 Israel was negotiating with Hamas over how many prisoners would be exchanged. In 2008, despite Israel agreeing to release prisoners, including those who had killed Israelis in terrorist acts, Hamas refused to renew negotiations.

    So, your fantasies that Israel has never attempted this before or tried this before are as incorrect as your attempts to derail the discussion with your claims of conspiracies.

    Israel is the good guy this time and Hamas has been shown to be exactly what many already knew they were. This time it is clearer and yet there are still people who will ignore this in favor of blaming Israel.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    There certainly are not protests against them in Gaza.

    There certainly were. Hamas stifled them.

    Anyway, you have not pointed to anything leading anyone to see Hamas wanting unity with Fatah

    Of course Hamas doesn't want unity with Fatah. Why would I site evidence for something I never claimed? I said empowering Hamas prevents Palestinian unity.

    Israel is the good guy this time and Hamas has been shown to be exactly what many already knew they were. This time it is clearer and yet there are still people who will ignore this in favor of blaming Israel.

    Hamas is a cancer. And to be clear, I'm not blaming "Israel," I'm blaming Bibi. Just because I don't agree with Bibi does not somehow make me pro-Hamas.

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    There have been protests against Hamas on the streets of Gaza? When exactly? I do agree Hamas stifles any political competition. However, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about public demonstrations.

    I said empowering Hamas prevents Palestinian unity.

    Since Hamas does not want unity, there is no unity to prevent. What you are saying does not make sense.

    Hamas is a cancer. And to be clear, I'm not blaming "Israel,"

    We agree about Hamas. That is for sure.

    I'm blaming Bibi.

    Well, what you say about strengthening Hamas through this action is sadly true. I definitely agree with this opinion. Where we diverge is when you claim 'why now?' and further suggest it is because 'Bibi' wants to stir trouble when it is a fact that Israel has been trying to negotiate Palestinian prisoners for Shalit since he was captured. It is not 'now' that Israel was ready, it was now that Hamas was.

    Just because I don't agree with Bibi does not somehow make me pro-Hamas.

    Fair enough. Your point in this regard is well noted. However, Israel does have a clear history of attempting to negotiate for his release. This is hardly a surprising position for the Israeli government to take. In fact, they've had the same position all along.

  • 0

    Madverts

    "What gives you the idea this deal could have been done years ago? Is it perhaps the fact that it was tried and talks revolving around this failed time and time again?"

    2012 is an election year in the Jewish state too.....might have something to do with it, as it seems a pretty emotive issue in Israel.

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    No doubt Netanyahu would like to score brownie points for this. However, as I pointed out above, Israel had been attempting to negotiate for his release and had been considering releasing Palestinians, including killers and terrorists, ever since he was captured.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    However, Israel does have a clear history of attempting to negotiate for his release. This is hardly a surprising position for the Israeli government to take. In fact, they've had the same position all along.

    Israel was the one who reject the initial request for ~1000 and the second reqest for ~1300 prisoners. Hamas later rejected exchanges during the blockade of Gaza when an attempt was made to tie the opening of the Egyptian crossings to the release of Shalit. As I said, Shalit was captured expressly to try to get a deal of this sort. I have a lot of trouble believing that Israel couldn't have gotten it done earlier if it has been willing to pay the price asked, which makes me very suspicious of the timing.

    There have been protests against Hamas on the streets of Gaza? When exactly? I do agree Hamas stifles any political competition. However, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about public demonstrations.

    Were you not paying attention during the "Arab Spring"?

    Since Hamas does not want unity, there is no unity to prevent. What you are saying does not make sense.

    The problem were are having is that you see Hamas as a permanent fixture in Gaza, where I see it as being on the way out (or at least it was before this deal). If Hamas loses power, then the PA moves to unify 'palestine" under a more moderate banner. This is why this deal is so infuriating.

    To be sure, there are other factors as well: The Israeli election, the recent Israeli economic difficulties, the revolution in Egypt potentially losing Israel and "ally" and negociating partner... the weakness of Hamas certainly made the deal much easier to make, But Israel still agreed to free more or less the number of hostages asked, including ~280 terrorists. That doesn't sound like someone negociating from a position of strength to me. Its pretty obvious to everyone that the move strengthens Hamas and weakens the PA. There is no way Bibi wouldn't be aware of this. The timing of this whole thing is too perfect to be coincidental. Plus it suits his purpose.

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    I have a lot of trouble believing that Israel couldn't have gotten it done earlier if it has been willing to pay the price asked, which makes me very suspicious of the timing.

    The Israelis and Hamas have been making these specific negotiations since the beginnig of this year with Egypt's help. There is nothing sudden or suspicious about the timing.

    Israel was the one who reject the initial request for ~1000 and the second reqest for ~1300 prisoners.

    That is a huge amount of people. Perhaps Israel was hoping to release less. I would venture a guess that most countries, including your own, would reject that request initiall as well. Anyway, that was not the only request Hamas made that time. I assume you are aware of this, so why not write it. In addition, throughout these years one side or the other has rejected parts of the other's requests. However, the negotiations have been going on all along.

    Were you not paying attention during the "Arab Spring"?

    I guess I was not paying attention, please tell me about the "Arab Spring" in Gaza against Hamas.

    The problem were are having is that you see Hamas as a permanent fixture in Gaza, where I see it as being on the way out (or at least it was before this deal).

    They were not going anywhere. That is beside the point anyway, these particular negotiations have been going on since the beginning of this year.

    This is why this deal is so infuriating.

    I understand your frustration, but Hamas was not going anywhere that quickly anyway.

    There is no way Bibi wouldn't be aware of this.

    So, you are saying Netanyahu would specifically endanger his own countrymen just to prevent Palestinian unity? The guy is an a$$ to be sure, but there is nothing in his history to show he would do any such thing. He has been under great pressure in Israel to deal with this. An opportunity came up to do so and he did it.

    The timing of this whole thing is too perfect to be coincidental.

    These specific negotiations have been going on for over a year. What timing you be talking about? Has Netanyahu been PM of Israel since Shalit was captured? That is news to me.

    Plus it suits his purpose.

    You have still failed to show what you claim as his purpose. innuendo does not make the cut.

  • 0

    Ben_Jackinoff

    In short, if you don't feel like reading the above, in order to prove what you suggest is Netanyahu's "purpose" in getting Shalit freed, you need to show Netanyahu had the exact same opportunity as he did this time to make a trade. That means the exact same conditions. Remember, these specific rounds of negotiations had been going on since even before the start of this year, but took hold at the beginning of this year. Russia and Turkey, among other nations, were heavily involved in trying to convince Hamas to negotiate. Of course, Egypt has been involved pretty much since the beginning. Please show me some proof that this exact deal could have been done by Netanyahu up to now.

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