House Democratas, White House push ahead on health care
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0
adaydream
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/24/budget-reconciliation/
A list of instances where reconciliation was implemented:
Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983 Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed) Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996 Balanced Budget Act of 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed) Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed) Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofPresidentsoftheUnitedStates
Don't forget your list of presidents to see who was the president when these went through. < :-)
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goodDonkey
At this point it would be very gratifying for the House to pass the bill already passed by the U.S. Senate. He just needed to make them look like fools at the summit first. He was very successful.
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RomeoRamenII
Only 25 percent of Americans want to see the passing of the Barack Hussein Obama Memorial Health Care Scam. Yet, The One claims the dems are intent on ramming this bill down the throats of all Americans.
Since this is an election year, time will tell just how many democrats are willing to march off the cliff on this issue.
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yabits
Since most Democrats will provide the necessary reform to the health care system, they must not believe the lies being spread on the "25 percent" number.
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adaydream
RomeoRamenII, I guess you'll understand what I felt like when the bush $4Trillion tax cuts were pushed through. < :-)
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Wolfpack
So much for bi-partisanship. On yeah, what about those jobs?
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adaydream
Wolfpack, it passed. < :-)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/24/AR2010022402258.html?wprss=rss_business
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SushiSake3
RR, why mention Obama's middle name? Doing so is pointless and only reverberates with the racist conservative underclass. Thankfully, the majority of Americans are not in that category.
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SushiSake3
RR, I'm betting you have health coverage? Why are you so bitterly opposed to letting other Americans have what you've got? Are your uninsured countrymen and women somehow not as deserving of having health insurance as you are? The GOP at Thursday's message sent a very similar message to all Americans, a message that said 'No, we do not want you to have health coverage.' If you think it's the cost, you'll only maintain a shred of credibility if you admit that your support of the previous president and his big spending ways is part of the reason 'the cost' of the Dem's reform package is now such an issue.
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adaydream
I just watched a clip on the local news and they were covering a "Free Clinic". It handles 14,000 patients a year and turns away 300-400 every week. Some of them haven't seen doctors for over a year, haven't had needed medicines and those who need further care, they're out of luck because the clinic operates on donations and some government funds.
Their patients and turn aways have increased by 20% over last year. But that's okay listening to the republicans yesterday. Their plan will cover 3 Million more people over 10 years. They sure are looking after the American people.
Pass this bill through. < :-)
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skipthesong
I just watched a clip on the local news and they were covering a "Free Clinic". It handles 14,000 patients a year and turns away 300-400 every week. Some of them haven't seen doctors for over a year, haven't had needed medicines and those who need further care, they're out of luck because the clinic operates on donations and some government funds."
There are a few of these clinics. I delt with one in Buffalo NY a few years back. What was surprising, the most being served were welfare recipients. So, if the bill is not going to make it easier for such doctors to get paid, we are not going to see too many doctors doing this. And again, I ask you, what part of the bill have you seen that makes you feel its going to help these clinics or actually provide the needed care? it doesn't kick in for something like 5 or 10 years. How will you feel then, especially since Obama won't be in office then?
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SushiSake3
Skip, how do you feel now, a time when an estimated 50 million Americans are uninsured? Having worked in the healthcare industry, I'm sure you're aware an ounce of preventative medicine is way better than a bankrupting bill for surgury. But there's a whole lot of folks out there - as you and aday both mentioned - who aren't even receiving preventative medicine. And some people say the US has the best healthcare system in the world? I'm betting all those untamed Socialists up in Socialist-Central Sweden have it way better...
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skipthesong
Skip, how do you feel now, a time when an estimated 50 million Americans are uninsured?" The prez said 30Million. And we have been going back and forth on these numbers. There are lot who just don't want to buy it.
I'm sure you're aware an ounce of preventative medicine is way better than a bankrupting bill for surgury." Not arguing that point
I'm betting all those untamed Socialists up in Socialist-Central Sweden have it way better..." You are not getting it are you? Comparing the US, that has far too many social programs that the mid class pay, to a country like Sweden is odd. If Swedes want their system to be as such, fine. but like I have said countless times, who is saying this bill we are talking about right now even goes that way? You'll say its a start, ok. So, when does it really get better and what happens to that 50mil, 30 mil or what ever number people are coming up with, until just this bill kicks in?
Look, if it moves to a government run care - I make out big time. So, I'm kind of hoping for it to move that way in a way, but of course for the wrong reasons. You and aday are constantly going off on the insurance companies' greed, yet this bill is giving them a wish from heaven and no one, no one can prove this is going to bring costs down. No one. If they could, I'd hire them tomorrow. they can predict, but they do not know. So, if I gotta pay more for the same service I'm going to get and those who are having trouble now paying for it, will still have trouble paying for it, much less we must pay now and get later, why is soooooo good?
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skipthesong
sushi: Why did you use Sweden?
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adaydream
skipthesong, the portion of the bill that would provide health care insurance for those who can't afford it. The health care portion that would make it easier to get the medicines that they need. The portion that would help small businesses obtain insurance for their employees. The portion of the bill that would allow those who can't afford a single policy can join with others like that in a co-op. There are many portions of the bill that would help. < :-)
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adaydream
You're complain how I mention insurance companies. I could care less if you make money off the bill. Your profits don't effect any of us posting here.
There's also controls on insurance companies raising rates. I guess you are okay with California companies raising their premiums 39%. Sounds okay with you?
Why are you complaining? You're going to make money. You complain about paying a little more, but you are giddy about the profits you'll reap. < :-)
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RomeoRamenII
Obama's health care scam will prove to be as big a failure as his porkulus Maximus.
Those who side with O on this issue will be flushed out of Congress in November, which will be a good thing.
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skipthesong
aday: I don't know about you, but I work to make money for me, of which I haven't made anything this year, not you or anyone else.
anyway, we are arguing off point. There is no gov health care. You believe its a start, I don't. You were in the mil, you had people like me tend to your clap infections. You dislike me a lot, now you want a guy like me to work on you?
Here, here are some points that is not answered in your bill 1. what to do about those on welfare? 2. what to do about seniors on ssi? 3. Who gets what? does a hospital in Neb get more than those in Fl? I'm sure its not gonna be evenly divyed out 4. Will they go over, at any time, how much doctors pay in malpractice insurance? Its a lot. 5. law suits: none of the socialized countries have such law suits against their health care...... who get sued, the doc or the gov?
more in a bit
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skipthesong
There are many portions of the bill that would help." Hey do me a favor, post the links to that - pls!
One thing that may work out is that my wife may be able to practice medicine in the US. She'll make a lot more in the US than in Japan. That's for sure.
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RomeoRamenII
It's really great to see Obama doing even more harm to the party he leads. He's showing Americans who are 75 persent against this bill that the dems are hellbent ramming it down their throats anyway. It'll be interesting to see how many career democrat senators and congressmen will be willing to blindly march over the cliff for O.
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Sarge
"I think we've got to go ahead and make some decisions, and then that's what elections are for."
They sure are, and whoever makes the decision to support this disaster will lose the next election.
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SushiSake3
Skip, I mentioned Sweden in part because posters like RR, etc. are petrified of the seemingly 'evil Socialist countries' like Sweden, Norway, etc. Fact is, you don't have to dig so deep to find those countries have it way better than the rest of us when it comes to state-funded welfare, pensions, childcare, healthcare and education. They really don't have it so bad, and it's because they have govt.-run universal healthcare, which, in contrast to the views of certain poorly informed American posters on JT, can actually be very beneficial. But I think that what most of the above-mentioned posters are most scared about is the notion of 'a govt.-run health system will take away our freedoms.' That's borderline paranoid - GWB took away more of Americans' freedoms than a govt.-run health system ever will. A key problem in the healthcare debate, of course, is that the GOP has completely failed to put up any credible counter-proposals to the Dem's plan, which undercuts any credibility they never had.
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SushiSake3
Who knows whether the GOP is blocking support for healthcare reform because they can't slip in funding for Sarah Palin's Death Panels?
Sarah Palin and the GOP now totally own the Sarah Palin Death Panels as evidenced in the total lack of opposition to th idea when the former govenor of Alaska introduced them last year......
0
adaydream
skipthesong, I'm going to do you a great favor. I'm not going to supply you with any of your answers. You need to do a little reading. You need to look up what will be available in the bill.
Maybe you need to go find links or a channel replaying the broadcast. Then you'll get an idea of what went on fopr yourself and not just my slant. < :-)
0
Sarge
"skipthesong, I'm going to do you a great favor. I'm not going to supply you with any of your answers ( answers to your questions )"
Translation: skipthesong, I refuse to answer your questions because accurate answers would undermine my argument.
0
USAFdude
Excellent, adaydream! Let these unpatriotic naysayers do their own research - the burden of proof is on Sarge, RomeoRamen, and their ilk.
Ontopically, of course the Democrats are pushing ahead on health care; it's what Americans hired them to do. Nothing surprising there.
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TheQuestion
I'm not saying that all government run systems are bad I simply believe that any such system in the U.S will be a poorly managed, overpriced, underutilized, monstrosity. It may look good on paper but I highly doubt that a government run system will save anybody money in the long run especially considering that the current systems bleed money like nobody's business.
Any attempt by the Republicans to engage in actual debate would only anger Republican voters. Their inaction forces the Democrats to go though politically ambiguous means to pass bills that many moderates are shaky on, it's a ploy to snatch up centrist support for this years elections. It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. This is why I hate political parties.
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adaydream
TheQuestion
We already have this ant the system is being run by doctors, insurance companies, hospitals, drug makers, medical device companies and others in the medical fields.
It's not the users (patients) who are pushing the costs up the way we've seen them. < :-)
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Wolfpack
adaydream:
Yeah, a $15 billion tax break for companies to fire then re-hire someone else so they can qualify for a tiny tax break that ends after a single year. Wow, that is just brilliant economic leadership. That will surely turn the huge (in the trillions) American economy around. Such lack of common sense is exactly why ObamaCare is so unpopular with the American people. American's want an improved health care system, they just don't want the government running it. Why not let people run their own lives?
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USAFdude
Wolfpack -
We do. It's why we have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Without it, you'd have anarchy or totalitarinism.
Ontopically, you undermine your argument with false support like:
The Health Care Reform Bill is NOT unpopular with most Americans; health care reform is one of the main reasons we elected Obama. He's simply doing what the people have told him to do.
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adaydream
Wolfpack, you're complaining about a bill passed by both democrats and REPUBLICANS? It's a reduction in taxes, even for a year. You whine about that? And it continuing the COBRA health insurance program.
Oh yeah, let the people who use COBRA just die. Let's not help get jobs for people. Let's all be republicans. < :-)
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Wolfpack
The fact that the US government already has so many social programs that it can't pay for makes it even more nonsensical that the Dems are pushing ObamaCare - this after a full year of failure with a filibuster proof control on Congress. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are not sustainable and are a tremendous failure by government.
The reason why President Obama's approval ratings are under 50% and the Dems have lost a string of special elections for Senate and Governor is because the American people do not want another huge government program that we can't affort. How about fixing Social Security and it's trillions in unfunded liabilities? How about paying down our soon to be $14 trillion national debt? How about getting the annual budget under control - $1.6 trillion will be added to the national debt this year alone. All of these plush social programs won't do anybody much good when a Greek style bankruptcy grips the nation in a decade or two.
ObamaCare is a very short-sighted ideologically driven program that is based solely on Obama's ego and arrogant insistence on foisting his Leftist ideology on a country that clearly doesn't want it.
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Wolfpack
Yes, both Democrats and Republicans are wrong. Instead of making tax policy with an eye towards creating a lasting expansion, they pass a paltry bill that will have zero effect on an economy the size of the US and whose miniscule benefits will end in a year. It simply adds $15 billion to the national debt and really no benefit.
I don't wish anyone to "die". But should the government be obligated to pay for every human need? I don't think so. There has to be a balance between charity to those less fortunate and creating unsustainable dependencies. The US government has done that through multiple programs that encourage people to not look for work, to retire early, etc. On ahd by the way, does anyone supporting more government programs realize the seriousness of the US deficit and debt? Obviously, they do not.
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adaydream
Wolfpack, apparently you haven't read my posts. I've advocated higher taxes for a long time. We got the bush tax breaks and bush's wars to pay for. I've never heard a single republican advocate raising taxes to pay what we're indebted for.
Republicans want tax breaks after tax breaks and they don't want to repay the debt that we have. You republicans work under the cheney deficit reasoning ("Deficits don't matter") until it's the democrats running the country. Then it's our fault.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/10/02/cheney-deficit-debt/
Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites. < :-)
0
TheQuestion
So we replace an unfair, inefficient system with another unfair, inefficient system. Big whoop. Only difference is that with the current system I can choose between insurers, co-ops, or opt to pay for my medical needs myself. I don't support any legislation that requires me to buy insurance and I don't support any bill that would do to the health insurance industry what Amtrak did to the passenger train industry.
If they're trying to find ways to cut costs, fine. If they want to expand coverage, fine. If they want to fix all the problems with medicare, fine. But a government takeover of the healthcare industry would lead to nothing but wasted money and mediocre health coverage.
Absolutely.
I'd vastly prefer a flat tax (25% income tax sounds fair) with minimal deductions. That way the congress is forced to work with what they've got instead of changing the rules everytime they spend into the red. That applies to both sides of the aisle.
0
Wolfpack
adaydream:
No, I don't try to read every post you have written on all political topics here on JT. It's fine that you and Liberals want higher taxes and it's fine that I and other Conservatives want less taxation. But regardless of how the US has gotten into such a financial mess the reality of today is that there is no money for the programs we have now and the huge yearly deficits and the cumulative debts that have been incurred. Add to that the financially unsupported future obligations that are in excess of $50 trillion it becomes clear that government spending and/or tax cutting has reached the point of insanity. By the way, a whole bunch of Democrats voted for the wars - even the so-called good war.
To even consider adding another huge government financial obligation at a time like this is just crazy. How long can a nation deficit spend before the bottom falls out as is occurring in some places in Europe?
I am no longer a Republican but I remain a Conservative (though an independent one). There is a certain level of deficit and debt that can be sustained - what we have now is impossible to sustain. Do you realize that? But it isn't just the deficits/debt, when the government promises more than any reasonable amount of taxation can support, then something has to change. Look at Greece now, the government is attempting to impose austerity on a population accustomed to generous social programs - like health care - and the country is beginning to riot against itself.
And Democrats aren't? Democrats promised fiscal responsibility and won control of Congress during the last few years of the Bush administration. What happened? Annual deficits ballooned even more so than when Bush had a Republican Congress.
Oh, and if you and other Liberals want to pay higher taxes so bad, what is stopping from upping the percentage of taxes that you pay to the IRS? How about practicing what you preach.
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RomeoRamenII
Obama’s closing statement on Thursday that Democrats will move forward on a health care overhaul with or without Republicans
Translation: Obama couldn't bully the republicans into accepting what 75 percent of the American people do not want and will therefore do whatever he can to ram the Obamacare scam down the collective throats of us all before we are able to stop him and his cronies at the ballot box in November.
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SushiSake3
RR - "Translation: Obama couldn't bully the republicans into accepting what 75 percent of the American people do not want and will therefore do whatever he can to ram the Obamacare scam down the collective throats of us all before we are able to stop him and his cronies at the ballot box in November."
Translation: What I think is 'socialism' is SO, **SO **scary!' :-)
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adaydream
Translation: We took the money and run and we don't give a crap about paying it back, but we're in debt and it's the democrats fault.
Translation: I'll call myself an Independent this week, but I'm a republican in wolf's clothing just like Lieberman.
Trying to fix what the republicans screwed up. You think that just because we changed presidents, the $6Trillion that bush went through magically found its way back into the treasury. NOT
But after bush and the republicans pushed through the massive tax breaks for the rich (without paying for it with reconciliation) and starting 2 wars (without paying for them) and a Rx Drug plan (that was never paid for again by reconciliation) it's not fiscally responsible to screw the poor for services they need, because everything was given away or spent on the rich and wars.
I hope this bill is pushed through by reconciliation. < :-)
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adaydream
TheQuestion
I'd prefer a flat tax of 18% and NO deduction.
But neither one of us is going to get our wish because the rich have come up with so many tax breaks, places to hide money and avoid taxes that they are paying a lower rate of taxes then you or I. And still looking for more tax breaks. Then there are those who whine about tax breaks only lasting 1 year.
I'm still looking forward for reconciliation to pass this bill. < :-)
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SushiSake3
adaydrem - "because the rich have come up with so many tax breaks, places to hide money and avoid taxes that they are paying a lower rate of taxes then you or I."
Not true. When President Obama and the Democrats were last year trying to close the loophole that allowed Americans to hide money in offshre tax havens, the GOP cae out fiercely against the proposal.
Aday, you're dead right when you said, "Trying to fix what the republicans screwed up. You think that just because we changed presidents, the $6Trillion that bush went through magically found its way back into the treasury. NOT."
Watching conservatives whine about "we haven't got the money!" when their support was behind the $6 trillion that bush and co. burnt through is just pathetic.
It's like they blow up a house and then start attacking the builders repairing the damage.
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SushiSake3
Wolfpack, myself and a truckload of other Dems and Dem supporters have been talking about the dangers of growing U.S. debt for YEARS. I've been bringing up the issue for nearly 5 years. Question for you is: Where the heck have you been?? Have you only just realized U.S. debt is a problem?? Are you kidding?
0
adaydream
Democratic Plan covers 30 Million.
Republican Plan covers 3 Million. 1/10 of the Democratic Plan.
A difference of 27 Million. The republicans are willing to not cover 27 million and allow them to fend for themselves.
http://www.emaxhealth.com/72/21571.html
Even based on these low figures, the republicans are willing to let 16,200 to 19,800 people die from illnesses instead of covering the difference between their 3 million plan and the democrats 30 million plan.
Reconciliation won't pass the whole bill, but it'll make substantive changes to the way things are done now. < :-)
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