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Insanity ruling not likely in Norway shooter's case

World Aug. 01, 2011 - 06:00AM JST ( 21 )

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21 Comments

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chewitupAug. 01, 2011 - 08:52AM JST

I never really understood the reasoning behind an insanity plea. In my world, for murder, it would be the difference between going to prison for life and going to a mental hospital for life. Either way, you are not getting out. But saying "Oh, he is not crazy anymore!". Sorry, no convinced. He killed people. No second chance to do it again.
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WilliBAug. 01, 2011 - 03:45PM JST

chewitup:

The article does not state that anybody is arguing "he is not crazy anymore". It simply states that the state now will assume he is mentally competent.
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steve@CPFCAug. 01, 2011 - 03:56PM JST

This poor man has caused so much carnage and death, When he is better, he will have this burden for the rest of his life. I hope that he is studied well by professionals. It is very rare that a spree killer is caught alive after his spree/mission. The information we can get from this mans mind may well help us know what to look for in future to prevent further incidents. This information will be useful for all countries experts.

Obviously there is a mental health issue here, whether he is deemed as insane or not will be up to the experts.
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chewitupAug. 01, 2011 - 05:38PM JST

The article does not state that anybody is arguing "he is not crazy anymore".

No shoot Sherlock. I was talking about insanity pleas in general.
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SuperLibAug. 01, 2011 - 08:47PM JST

From what I can remember reading, which is vague, and obviously not told through the point of view of the Norwegian legal system....

The biggest key is if the suspect did anything to cover his crime. Insane people who have a disconnect from right and wrong don't do anything to hide what they did. If there's any evidence pointing to someone doing anything to hide his participation, for example lying to people about his whereabouts or destroying evidence (like getting rid of a gun or clothes) then the insanity shield can't come into play.
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sourpussAug. 01, 2011 - 09:56PM JST

The guy is the equivalent of refuse, and should be dealt with as such. Forget flaky new-age psychobabble and just dispose of him. If the Norwegians think that he deserves to be treated as a human being, they have had the wool pulled over their eyes by the politically correct psychology industry. They insult the dignity of every person who does not murder 75 people in cold blood.

They have swallowed big lie hook, line, and sinker. His sanity is irrelevant, and he needs no "psychiatric evaluation." He needs to be executed.
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TheQuestionAug. 02, 2011 - 02:43AM JST

This poor man has caused so much carnage and death When he is better, he will have this burden for the rest of his life.

I highly doubt that. Very few mass murderers, regardless of nationality or justification, ever show remorse for their actions. Pump him full of enough drugs and you might get him to say he's sorry a few times but he'll never mean it.

It is very rare that a spree killer is caught alive after his spree/mission. The information we can get from this mans mind may well help us know what to look for in future to prevent further incidents.

It's not that terribly rare. The only thing we've learned from these people is that they rarely have a history of violent crime, they stay in remote circles out of public view, and harbor private convictions of persecution and societal decay. All in all most mass murderers are virtually impossible to distinguish from your average cynic/ self-described 'visionary' that populate college campuses and work places across the world until they actually commit the crime.
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steve@CPFCAug. 02, 2011 - 04:36AM JST

TheQuestion; Spree killers caught alive are very rare, do not confuse with mass murder or serial killings. Also " i highly doubt that. Very few mass murderers ... " . He is not a mass murderer.

For those who want the world to follow the good ole US of A way and execute the bad guy/evil doer/terrorist etc. Look at the crime in that nation which also has the highest % pf any nation in prison at nay time.
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TheQuestionAug. 02, 2011 - 05:33AM JST

Spree killers caught alive are very rare, do not confuse with mass murder or serial killings.

Same song different chorus. Several have been captured. But from the Port Arthur killer to Arizona shooter and now the Norway gunman all were largely non-violent, fairly quiet, and showed absolutely no remorse for their actions.

Look at the crime in that nation which also has the highest % pf any nation in prison at nay time.

Half of which are non-violent and/or victimless crimes that the U.S takes very seriously. The U.S also has longer, harsher prison sentences and if you look at the FBI charts the rate of violent crime in the U.S has been on the decline for years.

Larger, more ethnically diverse nations tend to have higher crime rates. The U.S and Russia being two of the leading examples. Both have large populations with a variety of backgrounds that constantly conflict with each other. I've said it before, Norway and the U.S are incomperable.
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steve@CPFCAug. 02, 2011 - 01:05PM JST

TheQuestion; Spree killers are hardly ever captured alive, this is a fact. Especailly soemoen who plans and kills on the scale. The US uses prisoners as slave labour and has a huge amount of minorities in priosn and many innocents on death row. No country shoudl ever use America as a good example. US crime is in decline because over 1% of the population is in prison at any one time, nothing to be proud of. America is the only first world nation with massive no go areas with gangs based on racial grounds and even prisons block segregated by race and gang membership.

This man is very usefull for those of us who care babout society. Those who want to make it better and don't live in the dark ages of eye for an eye. Instead of looking at American views that the prisoner is bad or evil, we should look at why people turn to crime, People are not born bad but are shaped and moulded by events. Society is the cause of most problmes but it is easier to put the blame on the individual as that means we have scapegoats for eternity.
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TheQuestionAug. 03, 2011 - 02:36AM JST

Spree killers are hardly ever captured alive, this is a fact. Especailly soemoen who plans and kills on the scale.

But from those who were captured we've learned exactly what I've already stated. There's simply no way to differentiate them from the general population until the time at which they snap. They are often very private and rarely, if ever, give warning signs about their intent. The same appears true in this instance as well.

America is the only first world nation with massive no go areas with gangs based on racial grounds and even prisons block segregated by race and gang membership.

Comes with the territory of being a diverse nation, as I've already stated. Different cultures have difficulties meshing and self-segregate without the need of government imposed seperations, forcing them together is often a bloody affair so our prisons don't force the issue.

Those who want to make it better and don't live in the dark ages of eye for an eye.

There is no better or worse when it comes to justice, only equity. Prison time in exchange for murder has never been equitable by my estimations, I don't believe in rehabilitation and I feel that long prison sentences are cruel and burdensome to innocent taxpayers. In all seriousness I'd rather see a felon beaten than sent to prison, the very idea of my money going to pay for the meal of a murderer disgusts me.

People make choices, choices have consequences. Take away equitable punishment and the system becomes pointless. People take what is given to them and do what they will with it. I've suffered more than some but less than others yet I'd never even think of killing someone I didn't know. I don't care what lead him down this path but the decision was his and he should pay for it, sadly he never will.
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HeythiaAug. 03, 2011 - 02:43AM JST

chewitup,

Insanity comes from the old English common law. A person who has lost touch with reality and has no clue as to what he is doing is insane. As such, there is a presumption that the person did not act voluntarily.

It's like driving a car and having a heart attack and you lose control and kill some kid. Did you know you were going to have a heart attack? probably not. Did you intend to hit the kid? Probably not. Could you do anything about it? probably not.

I wonder, is Norway's insanity like common law insanity? Could the person differentiate between wrong and right
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WilliBAug. 03, 2011 - 04:01AM JST

He is obviously insane only to the degree that the Unabomber was.

Highly intelligent, totally functional in society, but so obsessed by an idea that he thinks mass murder is a way to save society.

Big difference is that nobody blamed Al Gore for Kazinky´s worldview, while every half-track journalist is saying we must not talk about the islamization of Europe, lest we create another murderer.

Now, that is really insane.
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steve@CPFCAug. 03, 2011 - 05:12AM JST

TheQuestion ; please give names of similar spree killers captured? He also made clear his views online.

Many countries are diverse, America has such problmes due to racism on all sides. let us not forget that was the country that had segregation in living memory. London is as diverse as almost any part of the US but does not have no go areas where different ethnic groups murder each other daily.

Maybe you would never consider killing and nor would i, but both of us might and not know why. Things happen mentally which we as society must solve. There is a big thing here, do we blame individuals and punish them for revenge as you and other mostly extremist religous people beleive or do we look deeper.

Do we behave like Norway and try to seek answers from crimes, and make the person better which has led to a society of low crime without no go areas. Or shall we go the US way, have harsh penalities incluidng death and have deep racial divides, gang warfare and the highest amount of adults in prison by percentage of any country in the world? i guess for most people it is a no brainer.
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TheQuestionAug. 03, 2011 - 05:34AM JST

London is as diverse as almost any part of the US but does not have no go areas where different ethnic groups murder each other daily.

Oh please. As soon as you get beyond the embasies it becomes just as homogenous as the rest of Europe the city itself being roughly 70% white with the majority of them being white U.K natives.

Maybe you would never consider killing and nor would i, but both of us might and not know why. There is a big thing here, do we blame individuals and punish them for revenge as you and other mostly extremist religous people beleive or do we look deeper.

Oh, I never said I would never consider killing, just that I'd never consider killing someone I've never met. Some attest to the idea that we are all one, that society is the ultimate triumph and that through collaboration we can solve our problems. That line of thinking is lovely but also dangerously flawed. Human beings are, at their core, animals and eventually you get a few mad dogs. People don't change, they may get smarter, more confident, or even more controlled but at the end of the day they are what they are.

Do we behave like Norway and try to seek answers from crimes, and make the person better which has led to a society of low crime without no go areas. Or shall we go the US way, have harsh penalities incluidng death and have deep racial divides, gang warfare and the highest amount of adults in prison by percentage of any country in the world?

I've said it multiple times now. The two countries mentioned are incomperable. You keep trying to compare a small, homogenous nation of people with a shared racial identity to one with the third largest, and by far, most diverse populations on the face of the earth. Each state has it's own culture and a thousand different smaller ones within it, trying to apply blanket measures will inevitably fail.
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steve@CPFCAug. 03, 2011 - 05:47AM JST

TheQuestion; rubbish, total and utter rubbish,, London is not 70% anything. I suggest you do some research about the place. Of course the majority are UK natives as in America 99% of towns are US natives.

Norway is far from homogenous and is different in every town as most places worldwide are. "shared racial identity"?

So the death penalty and harsh sentences work? No, they do not, they are for those living in the past, usually those who base their belifes on a book allegedly penned 2,000 or so years ago.

The problem with American nationlists is that they try to change the subject, of course Norway is differnet than teh US as Utah is from New York.

America is a country that dishes out the death sentence to kids to satisfy the fetish for eye for an eye justice that the right wing nut jobs have spread into everyday life. luckily the rst of the world doen't take the US lead for their value systmes or the world would be in perpetual war, oh it already is i hear Fox News say, The War On Terror.
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HeythiaAug. 03, 2011 - 05:47AM JST

It's on diverse in the city. If you're in the suburbs, it's more like 90%+ of your typical white community. With a sprinkle of blacks, hispanic, and asians
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HeythiaAug. 03, 2011 - 05:48AM JST

only*
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HeythiaAug. 03, 2011 - 05:49AM JST

btw, roper v. simmons was a US supreme court ruling that prevents the death penalty from being dihed out to anyone under 18. It's a very common mistake because we kill so many people
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TheQuestionAug. 03, 2011 - 06:11AM JST

rubbish, total and utter rubbish,, London is not 70% anything. I suggest you do some research about the place. \

"According to the Office for National Statistics, based on 2006 estimates, 69.4 percent of the 7.5 million inhabitants of London were White, with 58 percent White British, 2.5 percent White Irish and 8.9 percent classified as Other White."

Sorry about rounding that .4 up but I figured at that point it would just be splitting hairs. Thats why I said 'roughly' 70% which means that the most diverse city in the U.K less diverse than the capitol of Alabama.

So the death penalty and harsh sentences work? No, they do not, they are for those living in the past, usually those who base their belifes on a book allegedly penned 2,000 or so years ago.

Never said it worked, I said it was justice. I don't believe the death penalty deters crime nor does it bring back those lost, but it's equity. And actually the age of the bible itself is debatable. While parts of it are slightly less than 2000 years old the Old Testament may date back to 2000 b.c or older.

America is a country that dishes out the death sentence to kids to satisfy the fetish for eye for an eye justice that the right wing nut jobs have spread into everyday life.

That’s what we have the appeals process for. I'd actually rather see the process streamlined. It's very expensive to kill a murderer right now and takes far to long, I'd also like to expand the death penalty to rapists and child molesters but unfortunately such measures aren't being considered at the moment. And actually I'm a Catholic and if you've read actual church doctrine you'd know that the Church is strongly against capital punishment, my views are my own influenced by my background having seen the failures of a justice system based on rehabilitation. I believe in punishment.
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TheQuestionAug. 03, 2011 - 06:43AM JST

While parts of it are slightly less than 2000 years old the Old Testament may date back to 2000 b.c or older.

Sorry, change that second 2000 to 1000 b.c . As of 2010 portions of the old testement have been discovered to be roughly 3000 years old not 4000 as I accidentally indicated.