Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial

Tuesday 22nd September, 07:10 AM JST

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sabiwabi at 09:53 PM JST - 1st October

I have not denied that Zundel was silly enough to ask Leuchter to be his 'expert'.

You still don't get it, do you.

Fred Leuchter was recommended by an American prison official (warden).

And

Fred Leuchter TESTIFIED in Zundel's first trial in Canada as an expert of gas chambers.

What is it about "TESTIFIED" you don't understand. The Canadian court recognized him as an expert. Just because you don't like his conclusion...
Cicada at 09:29 AM JST - 2nd October

How convenient, demand to know sources of information, and then unilaterally discredit those people with no regard to the veracity of the information.

How could they be credible, it is argued, when they have been jailed for violating "hate speech laws"? Never mind that these laws prohibit even the slightest questioning of "holocaust" details. It goes without saying that if someone persists with such questioning, then they will run afoul of the anti-free-speech laws.

The only thing discredited here is the pretention of the right to free speech in a democracy.
sabiwabi at 12:28 PM JST - 2nd October

Its unfortunate that trials in Germany cannot discuss the veracity of the holocaust claims. I'm afraid we will never have another trial like Zundel's first one in Canada, where holocaust "experts" could be cross examined. Its a shame. Ahmadinejad speaks the truth when he says that we cannot freely discuss or investigate the holocaust.

BTW, is it just me or is the title to this article somewhat odd:"Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial"
Cicada at 02:39 PM JST - 2nd October

sabiwabi

BTW, is it just me or is the title to this article somewhat odd:"Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial"

Yes, I think the headline comes from this passage:

Asked about widespread condemnation of such remarks, Ahmadinejad said Monday: “The anger of the world’s professional killers is (a source of) pride for us,” according to state news agency IRNA.

I assume he is primarily referring to the murderous regime of Israel. But it is a distortion to say he is "proud of his remarks" when what he clearly meant is that he is "proud of standing up to powerful enemies".

Most people are content to stay out of controversy and avoid questioning the prevailing propaganda and half-truths. Not only for this issue, but many others, 911, events in Palestine, etc. In this case, President Ahmadinejad's remarks can be taken as resistance of Israeli domination.
sabiwabi at 03:45 PM JST - 2nd October

Cicada,

Thanks for clearing that up.

I agree that most people will remain content with the prevailing propaganda, remembering only the impression given by the headline. They'll basically think that Ahmadinejad just likes to piss off Jews, like poking them with a stick.
kinniku at 01:49 PM JST - 3rd October

sabiwabi,

Could I please have specific proof that the Canadian court recognized him as an expert?

Ball also testified as an expert and was practically laughed out of the court. I would like to see official records showing the court recognized Leuchter as an expert. To my knowledge, it is not necessary in a Canadian court for an expert witness for one side to be recognized as such. So, I await your specific proof of this. I do not doubt Zundel was silly enough to believe Leuchter was an expert. I would like you to show me he was certified or specifically officially recognized as such, for that is what you are suggesting.

Just testifying in a trial does not make you an expert. There are plenty of bad witnesses in trials. Do you understand that? Zundel sure does, for he lost his trial, as you know.

I'm afraid we will never have another trial like Zundel's first one in Canada, where holocaust "experts" could be cross examined.

Ummm...How conveniently you forget David Irving's lost trial in England. There again deniers were shown to have not possessed any useful evidence whatsoever.
kinniku at 01:55 PM JST - 3rd October

Cicada,

But it is a distortion to say he is "proud of his remarks" when what he clearly meant is that he is "proud of standing up to powerful enemies".

Good to see you are President Ahmadinejad's wingman. How is it you know what he clearly meant?

How convenient, demand to know sources of information, and then unilaterally discredit those people with no regard to the veracity of the information.

LOL! How so? If someone is found to be wrong or bias, or they are found to not actually be experts, what is wrong with pointing this out? Do you even know what or who we are talking about? You leave one with the impression that you do not as you again make no specific comments whatsoever.

How could they be credible, it is argued, when they have been jailed for violating "hate speech laws"?

LOL! Who said that? I am saying they are not experts full stop. How do you specifically feel? Do you know their backgrounds. You do not speak to them at all. How can you say whether criticism is warranted or not if you do not seem to know exactly what we are talking about?
sabiwabi at 09:48 PM JST - 3rd October

Could I please have specific proof that the Canadian court recognized him as an expert?

As I have explained many times, at Zundel's site you can find the copies of the correspondence between Zundel and the American prison official (they have real gas chambers there). His site also provides the transcripts for the trial. I have quoted them extensively in the past. If you're not happy with this source, you can probably request an official copy, but I believe Zundel mentioned its quite pricey. Its very telling that the holocaust industry do not provide the transcripts.

There are plenty of bad witnesses in trials. Do you understand that?

I agree, there were many such witnesses at Nuremberg...

Anyway, Fred Leuchter testified in Zundel's first trial in Canada as an expert of gas chambers, not just as a witness. The Canadian court recognized him as an expert. So people should at least consider his findings, and they are quite interesting.
kinniku at 10:04 PM JST - 3rd October

sabiwabi,

Don't you get it? I am not interested in Zundel's (you know the man David Cole referred to on TV as a 'neo-Nazi') ramblings. I would like you to provide official references so that readers can ascertain the validity of them. If you cannot provide some sort of actual official source, your claims can hardly be taken seriously.

Leutcher was not trained in anything connected with gas chambers or electric chairs and I challenge you to prove me incorrect.

I also challenge you to provide proof that the Canadian court specifically certified him as a gas chamber expert. Leuchter himself told prison officials that he was not such an expert. There is a movie about him starring the man himself. You probably have not seen it. You should. The man is not the expert you attempt to make him out to be.

there were many such witnesses at Nuremberg...

So you say. Then again, you also say things like the moon missions were faked, Ari Fleischer is an ordained rabbi, Fox News owns Al Jazeera or that top Nazis and Hitler were Jewish, in addition to saying you would not be surprised to find out that Hitler was a nice guy. So, pardon anyone for not taking anything you say particularly seriously.

The Canadian court recognized him as an expert.

Again, just because he was allowed to testify, does not mean 'the Canadian court recognized him as an expert'. You need to show proof of such recognition in the form of some specific official proof.

Of course one should consider that Leuchter's 'findings' as you refer to them, helped sink Zundel's already leaking ship of a trial. You know, the trial Zundel lost, just as David Irving did.

So, when exactly do you think you will get around to specifically, clearly, simply and concisely explaining your unrealistic numbers of only 200,000 deaths Jewish inmates during WWII you have continued to claim? You are married to those numbers now. You quoted them. Now, why not attempt to back up what you say? Where did you get your numbers and, specifically, clearly and consisely what is the basis for them? These should be simple questions for someone like you who has been posting the same numbers for about four years now.
sabiwabi at 10:34 PM JST - 3rd October

Kinniku,

Did you bother reading my post. You have to pay to get the official transcripts. As far as I know, Zundel is the only one to have done that and make the information publicly available (I wonder why). If you know of an "official" source, please let us know.

In court Leuchter was qualified as an expert in the design, construction, maintenance and operation of execution gas chambers.

Leuchter also testified that he had served as a consultant to the states of South Carolina and Missouri regarding the operation of execution gas chambers, and was under contract with the state of Missouri to completely reconstruct their gas chamber. He had studied all existing systems utilizing lethal gas and had consulted with large manufacturers of sodium and hydrogen cyanide.
kinniku at 10:51 PM JST - 3rd October

sabiwabi,

Yes, I read your post. Did you read mine? I am not at all interested in Zundel's possibly edited versions of transcripts. If you cannot provide an official source and official proof, you do not know whether Zundel's version of the transcripts of accurate. What we do know for sure is that Zundel lost his trial.

You still have not provided official proof of certification or official recognition of Leuchter being an expert. For example, you say 'he studied'. Where would that study have taken place? Is it in an institution of learning on the planet earth? All you have done is copied what you seemed to have read on Zundel's nutty adventure of a website.

Still waiting for what seems to be non-existent specific, clear, simple and concise explaination of your unrealistic numbers of only 200,000 deaths Jewish inmates during WWII that you have continued to claim? You are married to those numbers now. You quoted them. Now, why not attempt to back up what you say? Where did you get your numbers and, specifically, clearly and consisely what is the basis for them? These should be simple questions for someone like you who has been posting the same numbers for about four years now.
Cicada at 11:39 PM JST - 3rd October

kinniku:

How is it you know what he clearly meant?

Because I know how to read. It's obvious from the content and context of the article, including the quote I cited. However, if you disagree with me, feel free to ask President Ahmadinejad himself. lol.
kinniku at 11:51 PM JST - 3rd October

Cicada,

That did not really answer the question, did it? What specifically lets you know what he clearly meant. I never claimed to meet President Ahmadinejad. You are the one who is claiming distortion. Why when asked, is it that you cannot be specific?

What did he say that makes you so sure that as you wrote:

'when what he clearly meant is that he is "proud of standing up to powerful enemies".'
Cicada at 11:58 PM JST - 3rd October

Why when asked, is it that you cannot be specific?

Re-read my posts a few dozen times, and maybe you will see that I was specific. Bye now.
kinniku at 12:14 AM JST - 4th October

Cicada,

Yeah, bye. Anyway, your posts mainly focus on the holocaust. You barely even mention Ahmadinejad in most of your posts. BTW,have you actually read your posts in this discussion?

Again, what is the distortion you are so sure is so clear?

Your one quote of Ahmadinejad's is '“The anger of the world’s professional killers is (a source of) pride for us,” according to state news agency IRNA.' From this quote, and this quote alone that you have quoted, how is it that you are so sure he is not proud of his remarks. Has he said that? Could you point to that specifically?

I think the man loves the attention and that he certainly is proud of his statements. Just as he was proud of the wonderful 'light' he claims he was bathed in at the UN a while back. Anyway, I look forward to your explanation as, so far, we just have your opinion of what he meant to say (which is fine, but that is all it is) and nothing specifically and directly connected to it regarding anything Ahmadinejad has said. After all, the man did not say what you said, he said what he said.