Iran's supreme leader says election was not rigged
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29 Comments
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0
LFRAgain
Of COOOOOOURSE Khamenei ruled that the elections were completely fair and untampered with. What else was he going to say? Anything else would be an admission of defeat for his bass-ackwards semi-religious quest for a nuclear bargaining chip.
You can smell a scam when the finger pointing goes from the US to Britain to vague and nebulous "external enemies."
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sabiwabi
Why are most MSM ignoring the American pollsters who conducted an independent poll in Iran prior to the election?
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sharky1
In other words, sit down, shut up, and do as you are told. Wonder how long the people will put up with this kind of oppression?
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Beerplease
Probably a long time judging by 1000s of years of human history.
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ca1ic0cat
What is going on in Iran is more typical of Zimbabwe. Blaming it on external "enemies" (especially the Brits, for pity's sake) is even more like Mugabe. But this is typical of a dictatorial regime. It doesn't matter if the regime is theocratic, despotic or what. Too bad for the clerics that a lot of Iranians are blaming them.
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Sarge
"Wonder how long the people will put up with this kind of oppression?"
Probably for quite a while, as the U.S. doesn't seem inclined to liberate Iran, and, of course, no one else is going to do it.
The Iranians will have to get rid of Ahmadinejad and Khamenei themselves. I wish them luck.
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Beerplease
Maybe Ahmadinejad won. It's bogus for any of us to claim one way or another given the information we have at hand.
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SuperLib
Bogus in terms of debate, but there's a very real benefit to the posters' self esteem.
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Madverts
The Ayatollah is playing what we cal in the motor trade "shit or bust".
Personally I think it's a dangerous game for him, because he's thrown his weight behind Ahmadinejad despite the rampant disatisfaction with the current regime. I'm betting this will worsen the protests and the violent crack-down will begin. Let's hope this un-seats the supreme leader.
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SuperLib
I'm saying this with no real evidence, but my guess is that Ahmadinejad probably won, but also there was some manipulation done in his favor. Maybe in the end it wasn't necessary but perhaps some wanted to feel safer. When you look at voting patterns in past elections, voting patterns in Mousavi's own area, and the tightening of the race right before the election it doesn't really add up to a landslide. But the fact is that Ahmadinejad had the votes to begin with and he was expected to win.
In the end the real results are pretty much irrelevant now. The fact is that protesters believe there was fraud and that's all that matters. Khamenei's hardline response is just going to make things worse for the powers-that-be in Iran.
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Beerplease
Maybe it's better for Iran that Ahmadinejad did retain power. The West's gushing over Mousavi makes me think his "reforms" might have benefited multinationals more than the people of Iran. At any rate, Ahmadinejad knows he has a restless population and that he needs to deal with the States to improve Iran's economic situation. He deal on the nuclear issue eventually, providing Israel doesn't screw the whole thing up. Maybe he should just say he'll allow inspections and not pursue nukes when Israel dismantles theirs and agrees to the same verification procedures demanded of Iran. Seems fairsy squaresy to me.
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Sarge
"I'm saying this with no real evidence, but my guess is that Ahmadinejad probably won"
Come back here after you've got some real evidence, please.
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Sarge
"Maybe it's better for Iran that Ahmadinejad did retain power"
Iranians needs Ahmadinejad like they need a hole in the head, which they're liable to get if he continues the way he's going.
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Beerplease
Same could be said of most world leaders, Sarge.
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Sarge
"The 1979 Islamic Revolution"
There are few good things about this.
Beerplease - Are you saying that Americans need Obama like they need a hole in the head? Har!
Moderator: Stay on topic please. Obama is not relevant to this discussion.
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some14some
Game over ! supreme leader's word is final. Now Western Media should go back to Mugabe or Myanmar or Tibet...if not, global warming issue is always here!
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Madverts
"I'm saying this with no real evidence, but my guess is that Ahmadinejad probably won, but also there was some manipulation done in his favor."
I was thinking along the same lines - I'm betting the hardcore clerics were nipping that Mousavi would trounce Ahmadinejad at the urns so they somehow tipped the balance - only to find that a huge amount of support clearly remains for old Mahmoud - giving credibility issues to the votes he received, which have been seized on by the opposition.
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Shiva78
Strange, I felt more belief in the elections before the Supreme Leader spoke.
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teleprompter
A'jad is looking more and more like Iran's Kruschev. The mullahs thought they had a rube they could use as a mouthpiece but he has them second-guessing themselves.
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Beerplease
Religious leaders don't lie, do they?
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smithinjapan
sarge: "Come back here after you've got some real evidence, please."
And you come back when you have the evidence of the contrary, if that's what you require for discussions. The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence either way. It's easy, and even somewhat hopeful, to believe that the election was rigged. In fact, you might even say it's hard to believe it was NOT rigged. But again, we don't know. We have to at least entertain the possibility that Ahmadinejad got the majority he needed to win, fair and square. I don't like it, it's pretty clear you don't like it, but them's the breaks if you actually believe in democracy. You can't just not like the results and declare them invalid.
SuperLib's post was right on the money, especially that the actual results no longer matter. The only way that this thing can be solved outside of full out war against its own people is for Iran to go to election again. If the Ahmadinejad didn't rig it, make the election open to inspectors, media, etc. If under such circumstances he were to win again, it would be unequivocal and not open for debate on who got the most votes.
"Probably for quite a while, as the U.S. doesn't seem inclined to liberate Iran"
And you better be damn-well thankful for that, sarge... the "let's liberate!" mentality has already destroyed much of the fabric of your country, destroyed your reputation world-wide (get on your knees and say thanks you have someone like Obama to mend the fences!), destroyed your economy, destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands, just to name a few of the many negative aspects. Your country cannot afford to absolutely mess up in Iran like it has elsewhere, in any respect.
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usaexpat
There will be blood in the street soon now and Khamenei has already layed the future violence at the feet of the opposition. Great system don't you think? I really had hope that Mousavi would become president and strike a more moderate tone. WIth Obama and Mousavi maybe there could have been some progress in US/Iranian relations. Ahmadinejad is a whacko who no one can have meanigful negotiations with.
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adaydream
I've been impressed at the civility of the demostrations, in total. Yes there have been some deaths, limited and identified, but we've seen much worse mayhem at soccer games in Europe.
I'm glad to see democracy at work. When Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad get tired of the protesting, then it's going to get ugly. < :-)
0
TheQuestion
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/iran-does-have-some-fishy-numbers.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/12/world/main5082411.shtml?source=related_story
Anyone else find the trends odd?
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GJDailleult
Watching a bit of the speech on CNN last night, that sure looked like one scary, Nuremberg-style crowd of supporters the Ayatollah had. No doubt that was by design, in order to try and scare and intimidate the opposition.
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Sarge
Khamenei: "It is your victory. They cannot manipulate it."
But, sir, you have already manipulated it. A 2-1 Mahmoud victory? Pfffft!
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