Iraq car bombing kills 32 north of Baghdad

Saturday 13th September, 06:50 AM JST

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Nippon5 at 04:44 PM JST - 13th September

This is a terrible thing to happen, but it isnt the end of the world, when the next president comes in he can wave his wand and get rid of the factions that are fighting by removing the US presence. Anyone remember that Sadamm was in one group and killed allot of the other groups in order to keep the peace? or do you consider what he did ok?..This isnt new its just a continuation of the way they did things before, without Sadamm killing them all for it..

It is a 'suspicious agreement' that would bring “humiliation and degradation to the Iraqi people." That's Iraqi speak for putting more lipstick on a pig!

Always good to qoute the extremist radical priest when you want to make a point..... Hes so full of hot air he makes even you look deflated and that isnt easy....
WilliB at 05:04 PM JST - 13th September

Hoss1

" The guy was talking about how the Iraqis just want to be able to raise their kids, make a living, and live in safety. "

Obviously the Iraqis who blew up the market didn´t agree. What do you expect the guy in front of the camera to say? Give a lecture about the history and political constellation of Iraq, and the teachings of radical sunni and shiite islam?
Madverts at 05:06 PM JST - 13th September

Whoa willi, you're not saying Iraq was better off with a strongman to keep the ethnic factions from killin' each other are ya?
Hoss1 at 06:52 PM JST - 13th September

Sorry WilliB, I don't really know what point you're trying to make. All I was trying to point out was that Sarge said that it was "interesting" and it wasn't. It was a few minutes of the guy stating the obvious, and using it as a reason to continue the occupation. He may as well said "The sky is blue and ping-pong balls are round. Therefore we can't leave the Iraqis in a lurch here."
SezWho2 at 07:55 PM JST - 13th September

ColAmerica,

When Saddam was in power, the country had a nominal democracy and it had a police force and army. It had one of the most highly educated populations in the Middle East. It's true that Saddam was ruthless and it's true that he is no longer in power. It's not true that the country has been liberated and it is especially not true that people can speak freely without fear of reprisal.
Sarge at 08:09 PM JST - 13th September

Like Joe Cook asked, are Iraqis better off than they were in 2002 under Saddam's "nominal democracy"? Most Iraqis ( at least the Shiites and the Kurds ) would say "Hell, yeah!"
Madverts at 08:22 PM JST - 13th September

"Most Iraqis ( at least the Shiites and the Kurds ) would say "Hell, yeah!" "

And 98.5% of statstics are made up on the spot....

Heh, or out of Denial.
Sarge at 08:33 PM JST - 13th September

I must bow to Madverts at this point - he obviously knows for sure that most Iraqis say they were better off under that harmless old coot Saddam.
Madverts at 08:43 PM JST - 13th September

Heh, the Joe Cook video. Now that's funny sarge. A McCain supporter makes a You Tube video and you say this is prove that "Most Iraqis ( at least the Shiites and the Kurds ) would say "Hell, yeah!" "
WilliB at 08:55 PM JST - 13th September

Hoss1:

" Sorry WilliB, I don't really know what point you're trying to make. "

I wasn´t making a convoluted "point", I was simply pointing out that the term "the Iraqis" is meaningless, because there is no such thing as "the Iraqis". There are 3 main ethnic groups who hate each other and would prefer independence, if they can not dominate the place. Speaking about "the Iraqis" makes about as much sense as speaking about "the Middle Easterners".

In this case, the Shiite Arabs in Iraq would of course have the Americans leave as quickly as possible since they are in power and can deal with the minorities their way, with a little help from Iran (and their way is not Mother Theresa`s way). On the other hand the Kurds are enjoying relative independence and security in the current system, so if you ask the Kurds they of course prefer a weak Bagdad government and the Americans in place forever to keept the status quo. Just to give 2 examples.

It is totally insane to speak about "the Iraqis", pretending that all the groups have the same attitude.

Is that clearer now?
rjd_jr at 10:47 PM JST - 13th September

A sobering thought isn't it, Hoss1?

A classic example of hubris and VERY piss poor planning. Post occupation plans for Germany/Japan started several YEARS before the end of WW2. Post occupation plans for Iraq? A mere few months.

Not to mention one of the most misbungled "efforts" of "running" a country after war. Rummy and his failed go in quick, "liberate," and have Iraqis love us long time, screw the rest of the world "strategy" (ignoring advice of a more sizeable force needed to stabilize Iraq). Dubya repeatedly mocking and blatantly ignoring early reports of insurgent activity. Bremer's disastrous decisions in fueling political discord, animosity, and the bourgenoing insurgency. The list goes on and on.

All added up to a war that is STILL not over, cost hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, thousands of coalition lives unnecessarily. I am not arguing about the right or wrong of invading Iraq here, it was done, so be it. I am livid about the reckless way the bush administration handled things after, all based on hubris, they treated post occupation as seriously as some scratch their head.

They all have blood on their hands.
WilliB at 11:56 PM JST - 13th September

rjd jr:

" A sobering thought isn't it, Hoss1? A classic example of hubris and VERY piss poor planning. "

The best planning in the world does not help if it is based on false assumptions. In this, Bush/Wolfowitz/Bremers etc.s assumption was that miraculously democracy would develop (with tender help from Shiite clerics), if only Saddam was removed. Well, that one blew up in their face.

But there are plenty more wrong assumptions to go around, based on wishful thinking and ignorance. You can not tie this to one particular party, they are all guilty of such stupididy.
adaydream at 04:16 AM JST - 14th September

WilliB - But there are plenty more wrong assumptions to go around, based on wishful thinking and ignorance. You can not tie this to one particular party, they are all guilty of such stupididy.

This was a republican war.

All post Shock and Aw operations and decisions were republican.

The past 7 years of the Iraqi was a republican operation.

The republican majority of the congress and the veto power of the president have kept the Iraqi war going and taken any democratic suggestions away.

The arrogance and ignorance of the republican party have kept this a republican war, even though the people told the country 2 years ago, they were tired of the "Stay thbe course" mentality and the republicans and george bush ignored the voice of the people.

No, these bombings weren't going on before george bush attacked. I pray that the Iraqi Army and Police get trained as we've been led to believe, that our troops are training them. The Iraqi people don't trust the Americans/occupiers. The Iraqi security forces should be working with the neighbors, locals to crack down on insurgent action and planned actions against citizens. < :-)
WilliB at 07:09 PM JST - 14th September

adaydream:

" The Iraqi people don't trust the Americans/occupiers. "

There you go again. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. What "Iraqi people"? The Shiite majority who is no in the catbird seat? The Arab Sunnis, which dread life under Shiite rule? Or the Kurdish Sunnis, who have achieved de facto independence in the current situation and dread the day the Shiites want to control Kurdish areas again?

There no "Iraqi people" who are united against the evil Americans. Repeating your talking points does not make them true.
WilliB at 07:12 PM JST - 14th September

Adaydream:

" No, these bombings weren't going on before george bush attacked. "

There are plenty of arguments to be made for having left the Saddam government in place, but a lack of violence is not one of them. There were no jihadist bombings under Saddam, but the mass graves produced by the Saddam regime dwarf even the jihadist violence of the last few years. Again, an empty talking point.