Israel, Hamas near swap of prisoners for soldier

Tuesday 24th November, 06:56 AM JST

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sabiwabi at 11:15 AM JST - 25th November

Why do you seem to be so against any compromise between these two nations?

The problem with your posts is that you do not realize how much the Palestinians have compromised and for so long. Its time for justice, not more compromise.

You continously repeat your one-sided claims of everything being Israel's fault.

It is Israel's fault.

However, this way of doing things has not gotten the Palestinians their nation.

Well, I feel like Israel is on the verge of losing their "nation". Hopefully, Palestine will be restored to the great nation it once was.
SuperLib at 11:58 AM JST - 25th November

Well we can see what Hamas gets through negotiation (release of prisoners) and what they get through firing rockets (a military response).

Gee, what do you think is the better option for Hamas?
WilliB at 03:48 PM JST - 25th November

Sabiwabi:

" Hopefully, Palestine will be restored to the great nation it once was. "

Can you please explain to us infidels when "Palestine" was a "great nation"?
kinniku at 04:10 PM JST - 25th November

The problem with your posts is that you do not realize how much the Palestinians have compromised and for so long.

Compromise means sitting down and negotiating and then making a true and real peace. I am not only blaming the Palestinians for the present situation. However, the fact remains that the Palestinian side, particularly Hamas but also Fatah to some extent, have not been willing to sit down with Israel and negotiate. So, you are incorrect. It is not that I don't realize that Palestinians have compromised for so long. It is that they have not been willing to compromise for so long. This was particularly true in 2000 when the two sides were the closest they have ever been so far to a peace deal and Arafat left the negotiations. Now, I know you do not want the Palestinians to compromise at all with Israel. That is why you see compromise where there is none.

It is Israel's fault.

No, again, you are incorrect. Both sides have been at fault. This is the reality. Your obvious and continuous bias gets in the way of your seeing this.

Well, I feel like Israel is on the verge of losing their "nation".

Meh. People like you have been saying this for decades. In fact, that helped start the 67 war and got Jordan involved. Yet, it has gotten the Palestinians absolutely nothing.

Hopefully, Palestine will be restored to the great nation it once was.

Israel is not disappearing anytime soon. This is the reality. The Palestinians will get their own nation. It will not be at the expense of the existence of Israel. Of course, it is rather hard to believe you care about the Palestinians so much when you claimed the BNP, an extremist anti-Muslim political party in Britain had logic to their argument. In fact, you really do not seem to know very much about Palestinians, Islam or the Middle East. It all seems to be a playground for you to vent your anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish bias. None of that has ever helped the Palestinians. Negotiations will. Israel has given back land and made peace with two nations, Egypt and Jordan and that peace has been stable and lasting. Palestinians should be negotiating for the same thing. I know you don't want this. However, it will happen.
thedeath at 04:17 PM JST - 25th November

hey kinnikuman good post.
sabiwabi at 03:46 PM JST - 26th November

However, the fact remains that the Palestinian side, particularly Hamas but also Fatah to some extent, have not been willing to sit down with Israel and negotiate.

They have several times, but both sides need to negotiate seriously. Israel has taken so much and they aren't willing to offer anything that is fair or even consider certain basic international laws.

When you catch a murdering thief, you don't sit down over coffee and negotiate, you need some justice if you want peace.
kinniku at 04:02 PM JST - 26th November

They have several times

One, the Palestinians walked away in 2000 from the closest thing to there being peace in the region when they walked away from negotiations. This is a fact that no one can deny. Two, Hamas has expressed no interest in talks leading to a real peace between an independent Israeli and Palestinian state side by side in peace.

but both sides need to negotiate seriously.

Yes. Both sides and both sides need to actually come to the table. This means Hamas must give up its goal of destroying Israel as must all those who support such a goal...ahem, like you seem to constantly support...

Israel has taken so much

Both sides have taken and hurt each other. This the reality. Both sides must compromise.

they aren't willing to offer anything that is fair or even consider certain basic international laws.

Please, you have no idea what will be offered in negotiations and you wouldn't find it acceptable anyway. You are against the state of Israel existing. So, of course, for you, nothing short of its destruction will be enough.

When you catch a murdering thief, you don't sit down over coffee and negotiate, you need some justice if you want peace.

Meh. People like you have been saying this for decades. Yet, it has gotten the Palestinians absolutely nothing except more misery. This is not about 'a thief'. This is about two nations that have no choice but to learn to get along. Of course, you really don't want to see that happen. You only wish for Israel to be destroyed. The only hope for the region is for the people there to ignore such attitudes and go forward with negotiations that lead to peace between an independent Israeli state and an independent Palestinian state side by side. Now, to this again, you will probably write a 'yeah but' kind of comment. However, there is no 'yeah but'. The only real option is peace between an independent Israeli state and an independent Palestinian state side by side. The shape of those two nations will be determined by the two nations themselves in negotiations and once peace is achieved, others should butt out and let them live their lives in peace.
sabiwabi at 04:25 PM JST - 26th November

One, the Palestinians walked away in 2000 from the closest thing to there being peace in the region when they walked away from negotiations.

They have several times, but both sides need to negotiate seriously. I know that whenever Israel gives up any little thing (something they stole), they always make a big deal about it, and the MSM and people like you applaud all their "generous" actions. Israel has taken so much and they aren't willing to offer anything that is fair or even consider certain basic international laws.

Palestinians walk away from negotiations because the other side is not serious, not because they enjoy their current situation. Anyway, Israel better hurry up and solve this, because with today's internet, they no longer have a stranglehold on information and the world opinion has shifted and will continue to shift. I expect Israel to disappear in the near future as I don't think they will change their ways.
thedeath at 04:27 PM JST - 26th November

Of course, you really don't want to see that happen. You only wish for Israel to be destroyed. The only hope for the region is for the people there to ignore such attitudes

kinniku, You familiar with Sura Al-Tawba’s chapter9? It is "the Ultimatum". let me say it one more time, that chapter is "the Ultimatum". and Verse 29 of that chapter said;

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger nor, acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.”

that chapter, that verse did explain why they keep fighting. conception of peace for those reading the book can be very difference from the rest of us.

"fight until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued."

that is when the fight will be ended and when the peace will come for them.

now we got 3 group of people reading 3 books of doom. if everyone of them think that their book their religion is the only "Religion of Truth", the rest are not. what will happen? yeah they will keep on fighting those reject their god. something we are seeing today.

it point less talk about peace with them.
kinniku at 05:25 PM JST - 26th November

They have several times

One, the Palestinians walked away in 2000 from the closest thing to there being peace in the region when they walked away from negotiations. This is a fact that no one can deny. Two, Hamas has expressed no interest in talks leading to a real peace between an independent Israeli and Palestinian state side by side in peace.

However, you are incorrect that Palestinians have sat down with Israel for serious talks leading to peace. It has not been several times. For clarity, perhaps you can list some of those times you seem to think exist for people to examine and discuss.

but both sides need to negotiate seriously.

Yes. Both sides and both sides need to actually come to the table. This means Hamas must give up its goal of destroying Israel as must all those who support such a goal...ahem, like you seem to constantly support... You seem to think that negotiating 'seriously' must lead to the destruction of Israel. You are incorrect.

I know that whenever Israel gives up any little thing (something they stole), they always make a big deal about it

I know that Israel has given up rather huge pieces of land and gotten rid of settlements on those pieces of land. Sorry if you don't think peace between Israel and Jordan and Egypt are good things. You see, civilized people think they are. It is a big deal. Since you hate Israel and your only real goal is to convince people that it shouldn't exist, you cannot see that peace is a big deal and movements toward peace are a big deal.

(something they stole)

Ummm...No, something gained through wars. If Jordan had not gotten involved in 67 the West Bank would still be its problem...not that they ever planned to give it to the Palestinians. In fact, they are presently revoking the Jordanian citizenship of Palestinians that have lived their whole lives in Jordan. Speaking of stealing things...

Palestinians walk away from negotiations because the other side is not serious

You don't know that and you are not in any position to say that. If the other side, the Israelis are still at the table (and they were when the Palestinians walked away), they were serious.

Anyway, Israel better hurry up and solve this, because with today's internet, they no longer have a stranglehold on information and the world opinion has shifted and will continue to shift.

Meh...people have been speaking this way for years. It has not helped the Palestinians. Right now, it is the Palestinians who are not agreeing to negotiate, not the Israelis. It is the Palestinians who have more to gain and nothing to lose by negotiating. Time is on the side of Israel, not the Palestinians, make no mistake.

I expect Israel to disappear in the near future as I don't think they will change their ways.

Meh. People like you have been saying this for decades. In fact, that helped start the 67 war and got Jordan involved. Yet, it has gotten the Palestinians absolutely nothing.

As I wrote before, Israel is not disappearing anytime soon. This is the reality. The Palestinians will get their own nation. It will not be at the expense of the existence of Israel. Of course, it is rather hard to believe you care about the Palestinians so much when you claimed the BNP, an extremist anti-Muslim political party in Britain had logic to their argument. In fact, you really do not seem to know very much about Palestinians, Islam or the Middle East. It all seems to be a playground for you to vent your anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish bias. None of that has ever helped the Palestinians. Negotiations will. Israel has given back land and made peace with two nations, Egypt and Jordan and that peace has been stable and lasting. Palestinians should be negotiating for the same thing. I know you don't want this. However, it will happen.
kinniku at 05:28 PM JST - 26th November

thedeath,

I understand that some may feel that way. However, as you and I know, the only path left to the Palestinians is compromise and negotiations. Without these, nothing will change for them.

I respect all people's right to observe the faith(s) of their choice. However, this should not prevent them from being able to live in peace with others.
WilliB at 09:06 PM JST - 26th November

thedeath:

" I understand that some may feel that way. However, as you and I know, the only path left to the Palestinians is compromise and negotiations. Without these, nothing will change for them. "

I am less optimistic for you. I think the combination of pure demographics and Western dhimmitude will do Israel in.

Simple demographics mean that there are fewer Jews facing an ever growing muslim population, indoctrinated by their clerics with antisemitism. And Western dhimmitude makes our governments put presser on Israel to make ever more concessions in return for empty promises of "peace" from the muslim side, which are never fulfilled.

And don´t think that is the end of it. Israel is merely the canary in the coalmine.
sabiwabi at 09:50 PM JST - 26th November

I understand that some may feel that way. However, as you and I know, the only path left to the Palestinians is compromise and negotiations. Without these, nothing will change for them.

The world is catching on to Israeli crimes. Things will change in the near future. The Palestinians are no longer as helpless as they used to be. Hopefully they will continue to arm themselves with video cameras and show the world Israel's true nature. The only path left for Israel is to start following international law, UN resolutions, and principles of common human decency.
kinniku at 10:07 PM JST - 26th November

The world is catching on to Israeli crimes.

The world has seen both sides battling each other for many years now. However, your obvious bias prevents you from seeing both sides are responsible for the violent conflict and both sides need to make peace with each other.

Things will change in the near future.

Yes, they will someday make peace. There will be both an independent Israel and an independent Palestine side by side in peace. You will disappointed by this. No one will care that you are disappointed.

The Palestinians are no longer as helpless as they used to be.

Yes, because: One) Israel agreed to allowed the Palestinians to have armed security and police forces. Two) Hamas receives support from Iran (as you now know because I taught you about the fact that Iran has admitted they support Hamas and Hezbollah). So, yes. They have a few more weapons. However, it would be a cruel joke to think that this makes them very powerful and that they should avoid negotiations for peace.

Hopefully they will continue to arm themselves with video cameras and show the world Israel's true nature.

Both sides have been accused of bad behaviour over and over again. Your continued fantasies do not change this.

The only path left ...

The only path left is for both Palestinians and Israelis to ignore extremist views (like yours) that see no reason for compromise. Compromise and negotiations is the only way to help the Palestinians and the only way toward a real peace between Israel and Palestine. Nothing you write changes this.
Noliving at 06:28 AM JST - 1st December

The Palestinians are no longer as helpless as they used to be.

Actually yes they are, they have no political unity and as a result becomes very difficult for any type of negotiations to even take place that would be effective, whatever agreement the PA makes Hamas will not accept.