Israel key to conference on banning nukes
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0
grafton
When the Arab countries collectively guarantee Israel’s existence then Israel might listen. Israel is surrounded by countries that have collectively attack her before so why should she be expected to give up the one guarantee she has just because those same past attackers want her to? Israel has nuclear weapons for a long time and there has never been any worry about them being used for any reason other than ultimate defence and it could well be reasoned that those nuclear weapons are perhaps the only reason Israel still exists today.
Simple rule in the Middle East, never trust a gang of smiling Arabs who are asking you to give up your gun.
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WilliB
That idiot in the White House is willing to side with the islamists and throw Israel in front of the bus.
What a disgrace.
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Sarge
"Israel key to conference on banning nukes"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
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SuperLib
I think the area would benefit more from banning terrorism, but that's just me...
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fondofj
In middle-east, Israel is a very solvent, most powerful in military capacity, most technologically advanced country. But Israel has always denied to sign in the NPT. A blacklisted country like Iran has already signed it. As a responsible country, Isreal should join this action plan to make a nuke-free middle east. Israel has no worry with the most advanced technology in its military lineup.
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Molenir
Good one!
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MistWizard
Grafton, your comment is aking to the Russians saying they will keep nukes because they were once invaded by Germany. The Nazis are gone and so is the UAR. No pan-Arab league is going to attack Israel. Besides what meaningful guarantee can a country give of another country's right to exist??? Everybody would pooh-pooh that or distort it, same as Ahmadinjad specificially referred to the "regime" of Israel, just as I expressed opposition to the "regime" of Saddam Hussein. I was not denying the right of Iraq to exist but you could not have convinced Saddam of that. Neither Israel nor you are any different. In fact, if that is your case for nukes, Iran has even better excuses, currently being wedged directly between the forces of the US in Iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other, the US being the same country behind Operation Ajax, which overthrew the government of that country and led to decades of oppression and terror. And the US has more nukes than anyone! Yet I doubt you will extend Iran the same deference. But feel free to prove you are not such a hypocrite or please withdraw this silly notion that Israel is in immediate peril.
Fact is Israel is in the same sort of situation a lot of countries are in, and is in no special danger today.
But, I have to say, if Israel is the key to banning nukes, the world is screwed.
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Bebert61
Israel has never operated within the framework of international law, so why waste all of this time going through the motions of setting up this conference which will amount to nothing? At the end of the day, Iran -and perhaps Syria- will develop nuclear weapons capability and balance will be restored to the region: peace through the threat of mutual destruction.
And as for the canard of Israel being "pushed into the sea." The United States would never let that happen, as it proved in 1973, when Nixon saved Israel's bacon - and saw little gratitude for the act.
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SuperLib
MistWizard supports Iran having nukes. Pretty crazy.
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LIBERTAS
Several items in all of this that I find typical of America's unspeakable hypocrisy.
IF the conference had resulted in a unanimous condemnation of Iran, Hillary/Obama would be smiling. They would not lament its being "singled out" for criticism, and the motion would not have any validity questioned. But there are NO grounds for that. It is a NPT inspected member. However, it is an un-inspected, non NPT and clearly belligerent entity (with two wars of aggression under its belt in just five years) "israel" which is unanimously urged to join the NNPT and allow inspections. Shock and horror! It's an invalid motion, "singling out" "israel" by name (Gasp!). Why not pony up and say, "Yeah! "israel" join the NNPT like a civilized nation! Allow inspections!" Why not? It's supposed to be the only democracy in the Middle East. Democracies are supposed to be transparent in legal matters, aren't they? So?
And the most inane comment to date here:
Really? What about Palestine's right to exist on its own land without fear of genocide and extermination? Let's call a spade here: it IS genocide and extermination. When will "israel" singularly guarantee that? C'mon. When? When will "israel" stop shooting children en route to/from school, the ones they haven't bombed with white phosphous? When? When will they stop shooting pregnant Palestinian women and not high-five as they cheer "Two with one bullet?" When? (Oh! That's not slaughter....I hear. That's national security. Rubbish!)
For Jones, the U.S. National Security Adviser, to make this comment: "Iran, “which poses the greatest threat of nuclear proliferation in the region and to the integrity of the NPT, is also deplorable." shows even more unspeakable arrogance and ignorance of the F A C T S!
Want to talk proliferation? Let's look at The Guardian this past week where "israel" was documented trying to sell the bomb in 3 sized to then apartheid South Africa in 1975. Fact. ("Oh! But that's not proliferation!" that's trade...I hear. Rubbish!)
The greatest threat to peace is apartheid, proliferating, non-NNPT, un-inspected, rogue genocidal nation, "israel." Fact. There's a bit push by its propaganda machine these days to stop its delegitimization in the media. How can one legitimize the indefensible? (Oh! But "israel" has a right to exist, I hear....Yeah, So does Palestine!)
When "israel" guarantees Palestine's right to exist with dignity, and ONLY then, will it have justified its own right to exist as a nation among civilized nations. Not one second before.
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MistWizard
Crazy is supporting Israel having nukes. I support a new free world because I don't some other schmuck's conflict becoming mine. I think you ought to read my post again.
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MistWizard
LIBERTAS, point, game, match. If that post can't make a hypocrite see their reflection in the mirror, nothing will. But then again, this is like asking a mother to see the bully in her precious little baby of 15 hulking years who has a pocket full other kid's lunch money and scraped knuckles. She will only see the scraped knuckles and declare "What punk put their jaws in the way of my child's fists? See how you have wounded him!"
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HonestDictator
@Libertas, I agree with you up to the point where while you were happily bashing away at Isreal's wrong doings which they deserve, you totally forgot about what the Palestinians were doing. Both sides have done horrible things and neither can excuse the other. Now when and if Isreal finally stops their digressions, which in certain cases they have done will the Palestinians stop their digressions? This has been going on forever because certain Palestinians insist on retaliation, revenge, and rhetoric. Suicide bombers, firing rockets indescriminately not giving a damn where they land.
One can't call one sides evils the cause when the other side keeps doing its evils as well.
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djuice
Just from reading this article, it seems more like Iran is the key to negotiations rather than Israel.
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Molenir
Especially since Iran is actually a signatory of the treaty, and thus in violation of it. Israel which never signed the treaty, is not in violation of it. Why would they ever agree to sign something, just so they can be found in violation of it? Makes absolutely no sense.
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MistWizard
Molenir, it makes a lot of sense depending on what your objectives are. At least you agree Israel would violate the treaty if they signed it. But let us remember that Israel is believed to have nukes, whereas Iran is beleived to be trying to attain them because they want to enrich their own uranium for reactors (much to the displeasure of the Uranium salesmen!)
Yes HonestDictator, how could LIBERTAS have over-looked the fact that some people throw rocks at the lions who invaded the village? This is like pointing out that some Jews in death camps attacked camp guards with shanks. Thanks. Noted. (face-palm).
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Helter_Skelter
United Nations. LOL!
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WilliB
Israel has never threatened anybody, and even the most rabid Israel haters acknowledge that Israel would only use its nukes as very last resort if its survival is threatened (and probably not even then).
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grafton
LIBERTAS at 12:42 AM JST - 30th May
Wow what a rampage, but you missed story about babies thrown onto bayonets. Everything said was an exaggeration or distortion and MistWizard who normally has more reasoned arguments actually agreed with it.
“it IS genocide and extermination.”
How then do you account for the very, very healthy population growth if they are all being killed to such a degree?
“What about Palestine's right to exist” “When will "israel" singularly guarantee that? C'mon.”
When the Palestinians start working towards an agreement that does not give them the right to randomly fire rockets into Israel whenever they feel like it and actually say that Israel also has a right to exist. (Please note capital letters on all place names out of respect). All you have done is blindly rant on about Israel as though Palestine was some innocent child that plays no part in any of what is happening. That at the very least is naïve, and had you ever made any effort to have read anything I have written before you would know that although I do defend Israel I have always said that they do over react, though like you with the Palestinians I have allowed myself to have understanding for why this happens. They have lost both patience and perhaps respect too for people who are totally unwilling to try and find a compromise that will bring the Middle East madness to an end.
As for the other foolish comments that there is no Arab threat to Israel and that anyway the US would come to Israel’s aid. That is almost too childish in its reasoning, of course there is an Arab threat. Where do you all imagine the money comes from that buys all the weapons, did you think Santa brought them to those nice Palestinian boys? The only this that has held that tide of murder back has been Israel’s nuclear weapons, weapons that we all know they have but which have never been used as an open threat to anybody. They are a last resort held in the only responsible hands in the Middle East. I would trust no Arab country to hold nuclear weapons, and yes I know Pakistan has then and we all seen how nervous the world gets every time there is a dispute between Pakistan and India. There is even a fear that the Taliban might get too close to them.
As for the US aid should Israel be attacked, how long would it take to get there even if it was agreed that the US could afford to go? Remember they the US isn’t even sure it can go to the aid of South Korea because of commitments elsewhere. Mush like Hungary in 56, the guarantors might be busy when they are needed. And that of course brings me back to the silly comment that Russia isn’t now worried about Germany because the world has changed and so doesn’t need its nuclear weapons. Russia never had nuclear weapons to defend against Germany, they had them to defend against our democratic friend the US of A. A country that seems to be at war with some one somewhere all the time. And anybody that admits to being a Guardian reader loses all credibility by that simply fact.
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Molenir
Great post grafton. Totally agree!
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AlfGarnett
I reckjon what Israel is hoping for is all nuclear wiapons to be banned. They will secretly hide loads underground bomb the Arabs and take over their countries for themselves.
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grafton
I reckjon that the world is degenerating into a bad BBC sitcom and I have visions of a John Cleese type character driving across the desert with a stolen nuclear weapon on his way to sell it to some dodgy Arabs when it accidentally goes off and starts world war 3. Either that or the above post (and mine) will get deleted, for the over all good of mankind you understand.
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hworta269
Yeah I think before they talk about Israel's nuclear bombs, if they even have them they have not admitted to it yet. They need to talk about IRan sending rockets to hamas.
The fact is that ISrael was attacked by its neighbors repeatedly from 1948 until the 6 day war. The only reason why they dont get attacked now is because the arabs fear they have nukes.
Whats even more telling is that for the last 40 years they believed Israel had nukes yet not a single ME nation wanted to have their own because they knew if they didnt attack Israel they would not get nuked.
Now fast forward to today, Iran is definitely building nukes and the rest of the ME wants to build nuclear power plants. To get to the point a Nuclear ISrael does not scare them as much as a nuclear IRan.
And why should Israel sign any crap like that because all the arab nations will sign it and build their own nuks anyways. Thats what they do, they lie, cheat, murder. At least Israel has the balls to not sign the NPT.
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jruaustralia
http://statismwatch.ca/2010/05/28/middle-east-arms-treaty-a-go-despite-us-deep-regret-over-focus-on-israeli-nuclear-arsenal/
28.05.10
Initially reluctant, the US changed tack and went along with the proposal. Iran and Syria had expressed dissent over whether the treaty was tough enough, but no objections were raised in the final session, and Iran’s chief delegate joined other nations in applause at the deal in the UN’s general assembly hall.
“All eyes the world over are watching us,” said the conference’s president, Libran Cabactulan of the Philippines, bringing down a gavel on the agreement.
For the US, undersecretary of state Ellen Tauscher said the document “advances President Obama’s vision” of a world free of nuclear weapons. She said the US would work with Middle Eastern nations to organise a 2012 conference; but she added that its ability to do so had been “seriously jeopardised because the final document singles out Israel in the Middle East section, a fact that the US deeply regrets”.
Israel, which, like nuclear-armed India and Pakistan, never signed the NPT, is presumed to have a sizable nuclear arsenal. It is not participating in the meeting.
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