Israel kills senior Hamas leader as strikes set Gaza ablaze
GAZA CITY —
Israel killed a top Hamas leader on Thursday as tanks pressed into the heart of Gaza City setting landmark buildings ablaze, including a hospital filled with refugees that was engulfed in a ball of flames.
Said Siam, interior minister in Gaza’s Hamas government, was slain along with his brother and son in an air strike on the brother’s house north of Gaza City, Hamas said, as its armed wing vowed to avenge his death.
His sister-in-law, bodyguard, and four neighbors also died in the strike, according to Gaza medics, who said more than 40 Palestinians were killed in fighting across the territory on Thursday.
The latest deaths pushed the overall toll past 1,100 and cast a heavy shadow over ongoing peace efforts.
A Hamas hardliner, Siam had created the Executive Force, a militia that played a key role in the Islamist takeover of Gaza in June 2007. He is the highest-ranking Hamas official killed since the war began on Dec 27.
The assassination came after a day of fierce fighting in which Israeli tanks rolled into the center of Gaza City and forces struck a hospital, a media building and a U.N. compound, setting ablaze a warehouse filled with food aid.
A tide of terrified civilians, many gripping wailing children, fled the advancing Israeli troops inside Gaza’s main city as warplanes pounded the impoverished Hamas-ruled enclave in a bid to stem Palestinian rocket fire.
Hundreds of people took shelter from fierce fighting in the Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza’s Tel al-Hawa neighborhood, but were forced to flee the facility after nightfall when it was engulfed in flames.
The building had been hit by an Israeli tank shell earlier in the day, causing part of it to collapse and igniting the blaze.
As the fire flared hours later, patients who had been wounded in the fighting could be seen struggling to get out of their beds only to head out into an icy night pierced by gunfire.
At least three babies in incubators and three people on life support were wheeled out into the flame-lit streets.
Despite the Israeli onslaught, Hamas militants continued to launch projectiles Thursday, sending two long-range Grad rockets crashing into the southern Israeli city of Beersheva and wounding five people, medics said.
At least 25 rockets and mortar rounds were fired from Gaza into Israel on Thursday, with Palestinian militants having launched at least 1,090 projectiles since the war began, according to the army.
As the battles raged on the ground, Egypt pressed ahead with Western-backed efforts to end the war in which an estimated 600 Palestinian civilians have been killed.
In what could be a major breakthrough, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni would travel to Washington to sign a memorandum on joint efforts to halt smuggling beneath the Gaza-Egypt border.
Shutting down the hundreds of tunnels beneath the frontier that form Hamas’s main resupply route was one of Israel’s chief war aims.
U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon arrived in Israel shortly before an Israeli tank shell hit the U.N. refugee agency’s main Gaza compound, wounding three employees and torching a warehouse filled with tens of millions of dollars worth of aid.
Ban said he had conveyed his “strong protest and outrage” and demanded an explanation in talks with Israeli officials as part of a regional tour aimed at cajoling the two warring parties into a ceasefire agreement.
Olmert said that Israeli troops had shelled the compound in Gaza in response to fire coming from the building, charges denied by the U.N. refugee agency.
The European Union’s Czech presidency joined a chorus of international protests at the strike, calling it “simply unacceptable,” while Amnesty International said the strike could constitute a war crime.
Another Israeli raid hit a building housing several media outlets in central Gaza City, wounding two cameramen.
Since Israel unleashed its Operation Cast Lead, at least 1,105 people have been killed and at least another 5,130 wounded, according to Gaza medics. Among the dead are at least 355 children and 100 women.
Israel says 10 of its soldiers and three civilians have died as a result of combat or rocket fire in the same period.
Egyptian officials said Israeli envoy Amos Gilad responded “favorably” to Cairo’s plan for a ceasefire, which would halt the fighting and the weapons smuggling and lift a crippling 18-month blockade of the territory.
An Israeli government spokesman said however no decision had yet been reached on the plan.
Hamas also has yet to reach a final decision, having said only that it does not reject the “broad outlines” of the proposal.
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, now the international community’s Middle East peace envoy, said he was still hopeful for a ceasefire, saying the Egyptian plan contained all the necessary elements.
“I hope very much in a short space of time there will be a stop,” he said.
Wire reports
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0
grafton
"A tide of terrified civilians, many gripping wailing children, fled the advancing Israeli troops inside Gaza’s main city as warplanes pounded the impoverished Hamas-ruled enclave in a bid to stem Palestinian rocket fire.
Hundreds of people took shelter from fierce fighting in the Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza’s Tel al-Hawa neighborhood, but were forced to flee the facility after nightfall when it was engulfed in flames.
Writing like this really does need to be backed with the kind of dramatic & heart wrenching music.
I don’t doubt a tank shell hit the hospital, these things happen, but the later fire? My money is on Hamas starting that after they have managed to get all their equipment out. More or less the same reasoning goes for the UN warehouse, I’ve said all along that the UN workers in Gasa are willing or unwilling puppets of Hamas & I am sure they were trying to draw Israeli fire onto the UN warehouse. They are more than willing to put their own children in the line of fire so a UN warehouse really would be too much for them to resist using.
As the fire flared hours later, patients who had been wounded in the fighting could be seen struggling to get out of their beds only to head out into an icy night pierced by gunfire.
At least three babies in incubators and three people on life support were wheeled out into the flame-lit streets."
0
grafton
"A tide of terrified civilians, many gripping wailing children, fled the advancing Israeli troops inside Gaza’s main city as warplanes pounded the impoverished Hamas-ruled enclave in a bid to stem Palestinian rocket fire.
Hundreds of people took shelter from fierce fighting in the Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza’s Tel al-Hawa neighborhood, but were forced to flee the facility after nightfall when it was engulfed in flames. As the fire flared hours later, patients who had been wounded in the fighting could be seen struggling to get out of their beds only to head out into an icy night pierced by gunfire.
At least three babies in incubators and three people on life support were wheeled out into the flame-lit streets."
Writing like this really does need to be backed with the kind of dramatic & heart wrenching music.
I don’t doubt a tank shell hit the hospital, these things happen, but the later fire? My money is on Hamas starting that after they have managed to get all their equipment out. More or less the same reasoning goes for the UN warehouse, I’ve said all along that the UN workers in Gasa are willing or unwilling puppets of Hamas & I am sure they were trying to draw Israeli fire onto the UN warehouse. They are more than willing to put their own children in the line of fire so a UN warehouse really would be too much for them to resist using.
Sorry the cut & paste in the first one went wrote, these things happen in a time of war. Perhaps the Mod could sort it out by removing the first one?
0
adaydream
Israel may go so far that no matter what ever is worked out, Hamas will forever attack Israeli interest, especially individuals. < :-)
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SuperLib
Israel needs to be more careful with buildings like this. Even if militants are using it to stage attacks the building should be left alone because of the public relations nightmare. At that point, taking out a few militants becomes counterproductive.
But I am curious... There is a warehouse with tens of millions of dollars of relief supplies in Gaza? Were the supplies recently shipped in by Israel or something?
0
grafton
adaydream at 08:03 AM JST - 16th January
"Israel may go so far that no matter what ever is worked out, Hamas will forever attack Israeli interest, especially individuals"
What are you trying to do, give them ideas?
I'm sure they are more capable of coming up with some new scam after this one.
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SuperLib
Um, daydream....I think we past that point years ago, didn't we? You words sound like something has changed....?
0
Molenir
Quite possibly. Israel despite words to the contrary, has been shipping in tons of relief supplies to the civilians in Gaza. Not that they'll ever get any credit for it.
On another note, another rat lost his head. Though sad about his neighbors. You would think they would have moved knowing what a target they lived beside. If it was me, I'd move in with relatives who didn't have a known murderous terrorist living next door.
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SezWho2
SuperLib,
I think what changed was Israeli and US intransigence in refusing to recognize a duly elected Palestinian government, especially when that government expressed that it was willing to make nice with Israel for at least the next 10 years.
It is possible that Israel could have used those 10 years to build a better relationship, to help develop Palestine or at least stop impeding its progress, and thereby effect a change in the prevailing attitude of the people of Palestine if not of Hamas itself over a period of time.
Israel chose confrontation and humiliation. It elected to boost Fatah and starve Hamas. That policy may work in the short term but what I read suggests that Fatah is becoming increasingly marginalized even in the West Bank.
As a Palestinian psychiatrist wrote in the IHT today, "Who will save Israel from itself?"
0
smithinjapan
"The assassination came after a day of fierce fighting in which Israeli tanks rolled into the center of Gaza City and forces struck a hospital, a media building and a U.N. compound, setting ablaze a warehouse filled with food aid"
And yet another MASSIVE hit against sympathy for Israel's 'plight'. These guys have gone WAY too far and they're only digging their own graves by going further. In yesterday's reports they were saying it was a 'grave mistake', and now it seems they've changed that to 'we're investigating', and possibly tomorrow they'll again say it wasn't them.
It doesn't matter WHERE the food came from, although it needn't be pointed out that it's a UN wherehouse, so the relief supplies are likely those of the UN. Still, even if they WERE Israeli relief supplies, they still followed the giving of them by the bombing of them.
And a hospital?!
Hell, even SuperLib is starting to admit they have to be more careful, 'human shields' or not.
0
Molenir
They expressed it through continued rocket fire. Yes, quite effective at showing how willing they are to support peace.
And its more then obvious that it is Hamas that sought this confrontation. They could have quit at any time. Indeed still could. They stop, Israel will pull out. Perhaps not immediately now, not after all thats been done, but it will happen. The longer they keep shooting their rockets, the more people on both sides die. The real question is, who will save Gaza from itself.
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Helter_Skelter
"Worked out"? What exactly does one "work out" with an Islamic terrorist group like Hamas? Overwhelming strength is the only thing they understand.
Ten years, huh? I wonder where that number came from:
"hudnas with a non-Muslim enemy should be limited to 10 years: "if Muslims are weak, a truce may be made for ten years if necessary, for the Prophet made a truce with the Quraysh for that long, as is related by Abu Dawud"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna
0
TheQuestion
As far as I know the Israelii Artillery corps has only two or three types of howitzers which are quite up to date and accurate. And the primary shell for said artillery pieces is a 155mm round thatweighs 43.2 kg, is 800 mm long, 15.8% of that weight is the actuall explosives consisting of stabilized nitroglycerine or TNT.
While on the other hand Hamas has displayed incredible skill in the creation and deployment of white phosphorous explosives whose main uses are as a smoke screen...and as improvized napalm.
My question this round is this; how does a device that uses concussive force alone start a large scale fire in an emergency shelter designed to handle such threats?
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sabiwabi
If the world community is too chicken (bribed/blackmailed,...) to militarily put Israel in its place, it should at least isolate Israel. Stop all trade and aid with Israel. They have gone way too far. This last conflict (and there have been many similar ones) like 9/11 in slow motion, and far worse. But while world leaders stood behind the US when it was attacked, they are behind Israel (or looking the other way) while Israel is attacking. Shame!
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Sarge
The days of rockets being fired into Israel from Gaza are numbered.
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VOR
i love how the supporters of terrorism try to pass off Hamas as some democratically elected government. While they may have won an election it does not mean the process was democratic or democratic rules of law are in effect foolish people. Hamas rules Gaza with an iron grip. If you criticize, disobey or organize against them, they kill you.
So quit lying terrorist sympathizers, if anyone is terrorizing and imprisoning the Palestinian people, its the terrorist organization Hamas. The Palestinians have more to fear from Hamas than do the Israelis.
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WilliB
Sarge:
Alas, not. 20 again yesterday, and the "ceasefire" being worked out in Egypt will result in the same as before --- Hamas intact, and no control over the weapons smuggling through the Philadelphy tunnels.
Hamas is in a win-win situation: They shoot rockets into Israel and kill Jews = propaganda victory. Israel finally shoots back and hits civilians (unavoidable, since Hamas hides in the middle) = more propaganda victory.
I don´t really see how Israel wiggles out of this, until the international community FINALLY askes the muslim world to act responsibly.
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WilliB
Sabiwabi:
Now do you have any suggestion of how the "world community" should address the issue of Hamas firing rockets into Israeli towns? The muslim world seems to be entirely quiet about that.
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smithinjapan
sarge: "The days of rockets being fired into Israel from Gaza are numbered."
How many cut and pastes is that for you now? You've been saying the exact same thing for at least a week now, and the rockets haven't stopped at all.
Just tell me it's not one of your always-wrong-predictions.
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likeitis
Palestinians are trying to kill Israelis, including the Arab Israelis. They also kill those who collaborate with Israelis. Don't try and make this about the Jews, because Hamas is not traveling abroad looking for Jews to kill.
Killing is not ok. But then neither is stealing land. Neither is displacing a people into worthless useless desert and walling them in. Israel has done all 3, and all in living memory. And the typical reaction, though not okay, is for people to try and kill those who do these to them and theirs!
If you want people to stop trying to kill you after doing those things, you are going to have to one HELL of a lot to make up for it. Israel has done appallingly little. Thus, people are trying to kill Israelis. Its not a mystery. Its not a surprise. Its not impossible for Israel to end the trend fairly, and no, tank shells hitting hospitals is not fair.
Anyway, three wrongs don't compare well to one. Especially when Israel has done more of the one wrong they clearly share: killing people.
0
WilliB
Likeitis:
Whatever you accuse Israel of having done, shooting rockets into your neighbours towns is not acceptable.
Gaza, by the way, was Egyptian controlled territory until 67. Unsurprisingly, Egypt does not want this lot back. So what you expect Israel to do? Tell its citizens to live under Hamas rocket fire forever?
0
dennis0bauer
Israel just has to claim that hamas is hidding some WMD's then they can invade and do what they want
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likeitis
Whatever I accuse Israel of having done??? Well that is some stinging condemnation for 40 years of oppression!
Is that really all you can muster against Israel?
Speaking of unacceptable, so is killing hundreds of civilians in 3 weeks. How one can be so warped as to put 8 years of the world's most ineffective rockets ahead of 40 years of oppression, I will never know.
Yep. And Israel has been in control of it for a mere 40 years since then. Yet the people hate Israel. Wonder why? How is it that you can just overlook the 40 years and complain about rockets today? And, not to mention, the hundreds of civilians killed? Those rockets are not harmless, but man, they are really really weak.
I have said it before: I would rather be an Israeli in Sderot braving rocket attacks than a Palestinian in Gaza, even before the invasion. Its that bad in Gaza. What has Israel been doing with it for 40 years? Do you even bother to ask yourself that?
The Israelis DO NOT hesitate to move Gazans away from the inside of the wall around Gaza. They forcibly evict people at will, pushing Gazans even further into their cramped wasteland. And they are not free to leave Gaza strip.
If the Israelis of Sderot and Ashkelon wish to leave, they can do so at any time, most unlike the people cramped in tiny Gaza Strip. Yet they stay. New people even move in to those Israeli towns! I do not expect the Israeli people of those towns to suffer rocket fire forever. I expect them to endure indefinitely, or exercise their right to leave, or heck don't move there! Who is moving into Gaza?
No one should expect the rockets to stop until Israel makes real and significant moves to free the people of Gaza from the iron grip of the Israelis. The Israelis control the borders, including the sea and air access almost completely. There are only three ways there will be permanent peace: 1) All Gazans die 2) all Israelis die 3) Israel gives Gaza their freedom. Completely. Obviously, I am for 3. And until 3 is done, there will be adversity to suffer for the nation that has inflicted adversity for 40 years. Thems the breaks kid!
And what does Israel really have to lose? Gazans are so weak they can't really do much against Israel anyway. So why not give 3 a chance? Why not give peace a chance? If that fails and Gazans won't stop the rockets, even I will back up Israel!
But the fool's alternative, invasion, has garnered what for Israel? The same amount of Israelis dead in three weeks as from years of rocket attacks! And the rocket attacks continue! And hard feelings against Israel have increased! Which will surely spell more future terror attacks!
If you ask me, Israel's worst enemy is Israel.
0
sabiwabi
Once the world adequately deals with Israel, everything else will fall into place; ie., the rockets will stop.
This is not a question of Muslims against Jews. It is a question of Israel versus humanity. Most of the world (but not their leaders) see Israel as the bad guy here. If this continues, most of the world will soon wish Hamas had bigger rockets.
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sabiwabi
And the list of Israeli crimes continues to grow:
struck a hospital, a media building and a U.N. compound, setting ablaze a warehouse filled with food aid.
with an overall toll past 1,100
While Israeli supporters often claim that Hamas hides behind its civilians we have this from Amnesty international:
"It's standard practice for Israeli soldiers to go into a house, lock up the family in a room on the ground floor and use the rest of the house as a military base, as a sniper's position," Donatella Rovera, Amnesty International's investigator in Israel, told The Guardian on Tuesday, January 13."That is the absolute textbook case of human shields."
Last week, Amnesty accused Israel of using civilians as human shields in its nearly three-week onslaught against the Gaza Strip, which has so far killed more than 971, half of them women and children.
Rovera said this is not the first time that Israel has used Palestinian civilians as human shields.
"It has been practiced by the Israeli army for many years and they are doing it again in Gaza now."
And we have again the typical excuse from Olmert: “Olmert said that Israeli troops had shelled the compound in Gaza in response to fire coming from the building”
Yeah, riiiight.
0
Madverts
Well, all I can say is that it looks like Israel will be taking Gaza and erradicating Hamas. The civillian casuaities are un-accaeptably high, but this is as much Hamas's fault as it is the invading force.
And Gaza without Hamas can't be such a bad thng.
0
sailwind
Why, what did they do that was so evil that you wish people to endure rocket indefinitely? This is progressive thinking and justice???
Clarify your point that you wish the Jews in Israel to endure rocket fire indefinitely. Mindboggling, just cut to the chase and say Israel deserves it and you support terrorism as a way to achieve your political goals.
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Sarge
Smith, do you wish Hamas to continue the rocket firing?
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likeitis
Because they elected the government that made the decision to kill over 600 civilians in Gaza! And why cut the quote at the comma, removing the other choice I presented, which is to move away? They have that right and ability. The Gazans do not.
Another one bucking to make this about the Jews! I include Arab Israelis and Bedouins too. And I did clarify if you would just read. They can endure until Gaza is free. Any more rockets long after that, and I will support an invasion.
Sorry, I am not dumbing this down so that you can feel free to misconstrue what I say. I think I have been clear enough, though wordy if one is impatient.
0
skipthesong
liketis, Regardless of who is right or wrong, I think you'd cheer for Hamas either way.
You know, there are many demographic shifts happening in many places, can you imagine what is going to happen if only a small percent react the way Hamas has?
0
SezWho2
Molenir,
Israel was unwilling to agree to the proposal put forth by Hamas. Thus the rockets continued. So did Israeli occupation and control.
0
sabiwabi
Israel is wrong.
I think many people will start cheering for Hamas. I hope they can blow every single Israeli tank into bits.
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SezWho2
Helter Skelter,
It doesn't matter where the 10 years came from. What matters is that it was 10 years and a lot can change in 10 years. Does the source prohibit renewing the 10-year truce? Even if it does, 10 years of increased prosperity for Palestinian people would make it more likely that they would move to contain Hamas.
0
SezWho2
VOR,
Hamas was duly and democratically elected. What is interesting is how often the US fails to recognize elections which do not return a result that it desires. And what is also interesting is how effectively it has propagandized the election process to convince an ever-decreasing number of Americans that the process was tainted.
0
sabiwabi
Meanwhile, in Tehran, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the fighting in Gaza has been "a great lesson for all," saying it shows "the absolute defeat and desperation of this (Israeli) regime."
He says that "even for the supporters of the occupying regime and its leaders, it has become clear that the continuation of the Zionist regime's life in the region is not feasible."
Interestingly, on Yahoo News, this had the headline "Iran president: 'Not feasible' for Israel to live". Now people will quote him as saying that Israelis should not live, or that he vows to kill all Israelis.
0
likeitis
If I had a desire to cheer for Hamas, neither the opinion of you or anyone else would stop me from doing so. I say so much already that others are afraid to, I see no reason to think I would stop there.
Picking sides and cheering one is not something I feel any obligation to do. I just want the violence to stop. That includes the rockets. More than that, it is the invasion. I don't want anybody to die prematurely. Short of that, I want the fewest number possible to die. Nothing else comes close in my priority list.
The refugees of Gaza Strip did NOT go there for the loamy soil. They or their parents or grandparents were either scared off or forced off their land by Israelis. Even those who tried to return to their own land were not allowed. Their land was stolen by Israelis. They went to Gaza because there was almost nowhere else.
You call that a demographic shift??? Gaza is not fit to support so many people. And yeah, yeah, I know. Egypt bears some blame too, but the lion's share goes to Israel. Clearly.
0
likeitis
So many people just cannot be uprooted and stranded on a barren patch of ground with any expectation of a peaceful civilization being born. Only an idiot would think that. Only a land theif would attempt to make you think that.
0
likeitis
Good call.
0
likeitis
If Israel sets Gaza free there is a chance the Gazans might still shoot rockets.
If Israel does not set Gaza free then rockets are guaranteed.
0
taniwha
The claim that it is because rockets are being shot into Israel that Gaza is being subjected to both military bombardment (of one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world) as well as a full blown ground assault is nothing but one sick joke.
Gaza has been subjected to a veritable crippling suite sanctions by Israel for over a year now, not to mention the on-going 'surgical' missile strikes deep into residential areas. Israel has been restricting critical services such as water, electricity, medicine and food supplies into the walled ghetto strip causing untold suffering. A very large percentage of the population are less than 15 years old. Many of the Palestinian wage earners have not been bringing home enough cash to buy meager food enough to feed the kids because Israel has also cut off money to the banks in Gaza.
There is no excuse for the ongoing murderous bombardment of a civilian population. Less than a decade ago the bombing of a civilian family home would have resulted in a public call for an investigation. Now, after the US Nazi-like destruction of Fallujah et al, the world is so numbed to the mass killing of civilians that it now takes a campaign lasting a seriously long time, three weeks so far, before people even begin to get overly disturbed.
What has been happening to us all?
Enough of the excuses for this mass murder.
0
Molenir
No, I think you're mistaken here actually. If Israel "frees" Gaza, then the Hamas cowards will import more weapons, and shoot more rockets. Knowing their stance on Israel, I don't think you can come to any other possible conclusion. Despite what Virusanti seems to want to claim, Hamas charter calls for nothing less then the destruction of Israel.
And Israel would be extremely foolish to agree to any cease fire with a set time limit. That would only allow the rebuilding, and rearming of the terrorists. For there to be a lasting peace, Hamas must stop their attacks, and renounce its policy of violence and jiihad.
0
wuzzademcrat
^^If Israel sets Gaza free there is a chance the Gazans might still shoot rockets. If Israel does not set Gaza free then rockets are guaranteed.^^
Israel "set Gaza free" in 2006. They left in place far more of an infrastructure than Palestinians have prepared elsewhere (billions in aid over the decades, if they were serious about a state they'd prepare for it, the way Jews coming to Israel did from the 20's until '48).
Israel left intact million-dollar state of the art greenhouses, on Mediterranean beach front property. The Islamist mob tore them to pieces and starting digging tunnels. If Israeli bombing is part of a campaign of 'genocide' why don't the Palestinians build bomb shelters ?
Let's cut the crap here. Israel is at war with Iran, Hamas is the proxy, and Palestinians have been made collateral by the latter two.
Anyone who will not admit this is being disingenuous - at best.
Incidentally, are those who call the Hamas government legitimate because of their election victory willing to say the same for the freely elected government of Iraq?
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SezWho2
If Israel is at war with Iran, perhaps it should start killling Iranians instead of Palestinians.
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wuzzademcrat
^^If Israel is at war with Iran, perhaps it should start killling Iranians instead of Palestinians.^^
There's no if.
Hamas admits they receive training, financing and weapons from Iran. And Hamas admits to killing their Fatah rivals.
Both Hamas and Fatah dress their own children up as suicide bombers. Does the tragedy of so many killed so young really surprise anyone who has seen the photos and the videos of Palestinian kids being incited to murder Jews?
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jeancolmar
Imbedded in this article is the fact that Israel bombed the United Nations. This has made headlines everywhere but here at Japan Today.
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AlfGarnett
IWhat i reckon like, is it was a lucky shot. Most probably Israelo was firing into Gaza to see how many they can kill for the day and the geezer happened to get hit. I mean they've killed over thousand already the bloodthirsty swines, over 300 of which happened to be kiddies.
Was them kids members of Hamas, nah, they was just part of the "victim" Jew and his genocide of Gaza.
0
AlfGarnett
The Israeli's are attacking a small area and is destroying everythink.They is trying to either kill all the population or mnake them leave because the place is too crap to live in.Israel is clearing out Gaza, so they can make more illegal settlements. Probably their next plan is the West Bank, the crafty devils.
0
grafton
Mr.Garnett, please look at the numbers. About 1,200 killed out of a population of 1,500,000. The maths of do not point to genocide do they? But then if you just like the use of the word then the use of that word ends up saying far about you than it does about the situation that you are writing about.
Sabiwabi.
Your friend Donatella Rovera had more to say about Hamas than you thought to impart.
Speaking to Al Jazeera, Donatella Rovera, author of the report, said Hamas forces were now conducting a clampdown on Fatah supporters and anyone else critical of them in the Gaza Strip.
In examples cited by the report, a child running to a shop to buy sweets was killed by shrapnel, a young woman going to a school exam died from a sniper bullet, and a peaceful march through Gaza City to demand an end to the clashes came under fire, and three civilians were killed.
In the Gaza Strip, members of Hamas' military wing act as police and have detained and tortured Fatah activists and critics. Hamas police routinely beat protesters to break up demonstrations, and have roughed up journalists covering the events, Amnesty said.”
"We regret the victims that fell during the internal clashes... Our concern was to defend civilians and our people," he said. "The solution to the disagreement is not by laying blame, but is by returning to dialogue and opening a new page."
Taher Nunu, a Hamas government spokesman, said his movement had acted out of necessity to put an end to chaos in Gaza.”
Such are the people so many would wish to defend.
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smithinjapan
sarge: "Smith, do you wish Hamas to continue the rocket firing?"
Your powers of inability to read are greater than I thought :-)
For three weeks, sarge, and more, I've been saying Hamas is moronic for doing what it's doing. Go back to the beginning of this whole thing, before Christmas (or during Hanukkah), and you'll see that I said what Hamas is doing will not result in anything good, and they should stop.
In short, yes, I wish Hamas to stop the rocket firing, as I have always done. HOWEVER, I also recognize that this is not one-sided and that if they agree to stop the rocket fire Israel must also make some concessions to keep the peace, namely first and foremost stopping the shelling, etc., and giving back the land up to the borders that pre-date the 1967 war. If they don't do that, I'm afraid Hamas will continue to do what they do, and there will never be peace.
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smithinjapan
sarge: since you asked a question, sarge, I get to ask one too; are you not against Israel's bombing of UN headquarters, schools, trucks (well, shooting in that case), etc.? or do you think they are 100% innocent in what they do? Do you not think they are overreacting?
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LIBERTAS
When you kill the democratically elected minister of a foreign government for expedience that's called "Cassus Belli." Hamas is now justified eliminating "israel", (spit!).
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bushlover
I don't. But anyone there risk becoming 'friendly fire' incidents. It's hard to completely be 100% accurate in any attack. With civilians being that close to them don't you think Hamas has the responsibility to take the fight outside Gaza directly to Israel and not in their own backyard? It's best not to cr@p in your own kitchen.
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bushlover
You could be right LIBERTAS. Let the real war begin! Now they can really take care of Hamas. If Hamas win... in the slim chance then they can have Israel back to destroy like they did with the little bit of real estate they presently have. May the best man win.
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LIBERTAS
bushlover: When they're in the right, that's the fact.
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SezWho2
wuzzademcrat,
Actually there is.
It is no more relevant where Hamas gets it weaponry from than it is where Israel gets its weaponry from. Neither Israel nor Iran claim to be at war with each other. The United Nations does not recognize this as a war. The United States does not recognize this as a war.
There is an if and even if there were not, your remark would be unresponsive. The responsive remark would address why, then, Israel is not killing Iranians instead of Palestinians.
0
Molenir
There are a lot of undeclared wars. Just as there are some declared wars that see no fighting. Iran and Israel are fighting via proxy. The US and Russia did this for years, despite no actual shots being fired between them, or there being no actual declared war, they nonetheless waged a "cold war" that lasted generations.
0
SezWho2
Molenir,
There are a lot of undeclared wars.
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SezWho2
Molenir,
The above comment is true but not the point. The point was that there is a question whether there is a war between Israel and Iran.
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wuzzademcrat
"GAZA, Jan. 16 (UPI) -- The so-called Iranian unit of Hamas that trained with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been destroyed in fighting with Israel, Palestinian officials said."
Yes, Israel is at war with Iran.
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Molenir
I don't think there is any question there is war between Iran and Israel. Though at this point shots aren't being fired. Currently it is a war by proxy on the part of Iran, and a war of words between both of them. Israel has been talking of bombing Irans nuclear facilities though, that would send things to another level entirely. Though all things considered, you can't blame Israel for wanting to prevent a nuclear armed Iran.
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taniwha
From reading the mindless reactionism of some posts here it would likely stun most posters on this thread to realise that there are in fact substantial number of Jews around the world who are disgusted by the murderous assault on civilians by the Israeli government.
Even in Israel itself the level of violence and the duration of the assault has driven newspapers to publish the outrage spoken against what is happening in Gaza.
In last Thursday's edition of Haaretz correspondent Gideon Levy wrote this in an article.
Levy noted that even prior to the war the IDF already had killed 952 Palestinian children and adolescents since May 2000.
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USARonin
Taniwha, Hamas could've stopped the rocketin' which they began at any time.
This is not goin' to stop.
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taniwha
To be precise, Israel could have let up on the so called surgical air strikes which killed innocent victims along with their intended targets, could have let up on the ongoing for more than a year now, crippling sanctions on the Gaza economy, could and should have used their own land to build the dividing barrier on instead of Palestinian soil. They could have done that anytime.
In the entire history of the rocket attacks from Gaza, the numbers of Israeli killed reveals just how disproportionate has been the retribution exacted by Israel.
Since the year 2000, the number of Israelis killed by Palestinian violence according to Israeli figures, totals 1,176 people.
In just 3 weeks more than 1000 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli forces. Around 50% of the dead alone were women and children, a lot of children. Literally thousands have been maimed and injured, and the injuries from both explosives and incendiaries has been horrific.
As the recent article in Israel's Haaretz noted, the responsibility ultimately for high numbers of innocent civilians killed lies with Israel. The reality is Gaza is one of the most intensely populated urban areas in the world, it is after all nothing but a strip of land, one which has been designated by Israel to be the prison for Palestinians who either refused to emigrate or simply were unlucky to be unable to do so. Look at the apartheid history of South Africa, the political 'solution' to having such a large number of non-white population, in order to understand the reality of Israel today. Hamas is no more and no less than the equivalent of the ANC, also designated a terror organisation during the apartheid era and freedom fighters to their own people. There is though a notable difference, Hamas won a democratic election. They have the support of the population of Gaza, whether Israel likes it or not. For this reason alone talk, rather than 'surgical' military strikes and murderous sanctions on water, food and medicines should have been the way for Israel to set out to resolve differences.
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