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JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Israeli aircraft hit Gaza; 1 dead, 4 wounded

World Aug. 16, 2011 - 02:55PM JST ( 19 )

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19 Comments

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OracleAug. 16, 2011 - 07:19PM JST

The rockets need to stop. But of course that won't happen as long as Israel keeps Gaza as the world's largest open air prison camp. But Israel refuses to risk peace breaking out.
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SuperLibAug. 16, 2011 - 10:58PM JST

rocket fire on southern Israel on Monday night

Par for the course. The Palestinian attack isn't reported on until Israel responds, then the response is headlined as "Israel attacks."

Palestinian health official Adham Abu Salmia said the casualties included three militants and a 5-year-old boy.

Most likely taken to the grave by the militants as a way to make for a good source of sympathy from those who don't want to think about the Palestinians attacking Israel.

the world's largest open air prison camp

I suppose we could round out the top 5 with the prison camps - oops, I mean refugee camps - that Palestinians are forced to live in in surrounding Arab nations. But it's hard to keep Israel the focus when you mention what other Arabs are doing so it's best to just ignore them.
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WilliBAug. 16, 2011 - 11:11PM JST

Every time Israel finally responds after hundreds of rocket attacks from Gaza, we get to seen an article about it. But the preceding unprovoked and illegal hail of rockets from Gaza to Israel is never reported.

What is up with this hypocrisy?
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WilliBAug. 16, 2011 - 11:15PM JST

Oracle:

" But of course that won't happen as long as Israel keeps Gaza as the world's largest open air prison camp. "

Can you go easy on the simplistic slogans? Israel has all the right in the world to control its its borders to Gazah, as long as the Hamas government is committed to Israel`s destruction. You don´t expect Israel actively helping Hamas to bring in heavy weapons that are then turned on Israeli citizens, do you?

And Egypt (even in its post-Arab spring state) control its own border with Gaza... Cairo enthusiasm to help the islamist Hamas nutters is also limited. Are you also accusing Egypt of running a prison camp? Why not?
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steve@CPFCAug. 16, 2011 - 11:33PM JST

Israel should be treated as a rogue state. No aid, no trade. Let them go bust, they are disgusting.
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BreitbartVictoriousAug. 17, 2011 - 01:49AM JST

the world's largest open air prison camp

Yes, why do Palestinians treat their own like prisoners???
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BreitbartVictoriousAug. 17, 2011 - 01:51AM JST

stevecpfc

Israel should be treated as a rogue state. No aid, no trade. Let them go bust, they are disgusting.

Not so sure on that score, steve. We don't see Israelis burning down their own neighborhoods, looting and rioting, do we.
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steve@CPFCAug. 17, 2011 - 02:13AM JST

BV;No we don't but that is not the point. The break countless UN Resolutions. Carry out illegal kidnappings and assasinations in friendly nations, many of the citizens think we are lower than them. Unpalatable, but sadly true. The Palestinians are treated like animals and if you treat a person like an animal they are likely to behave as one.

Not to mention their massive illegal nuclear arsenal they deny having and illegal settlements. Gods chosen people? Pah!!!!
1

globalwatcherAug. 17, 2011 - 05:54AM JST

Gee, put everyone back to a neotiation table and stop building new housings as agreed in Gaza . This is a violation of the Peace Agreement.
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vladrinAug. 17, 2011 - 07:39AM JST

@SuperLib and WilliB

The Palestinian attack isn't reported on until Israel responds, then the response is headlined as "Israel attacks."

Well, my friend. A news like "rocket fire on southern Israel on Monday night that caused no injuries" really has not much news in it. But "and a 5-year-old boy" among killed can surely catch some attention from the readers. Though, not all of the readers seem to be interested on the latter fact, based on both of your comments.

To be frank, I rarely comment on the issue as for me it's meaningless to convince pro-israeli's of conflict's statistics, so the numbers below are not meant for you but for other readers: - For the past 30-40 years, the US has issued more than 32 vetos on security council resolutions that were against Israel. Which is more than the sum of all of the vetos issued by the US on all other issues in the same period. Surely, the international community doesn't share your, and Israeli's belief, in self protection or what soever. But what do they know. - Israel has 200-300 nuclear war-heads illegally (in terms that they have no arrangement or whatsoever with the Nuclear Agency or Security Council). Yes, the same weapons they are condemning Iran for trying to have. - If you are interested in fresh news only, here are some: Only in the past week, Israeli government have agreed on new around 7000 housing units in Israeli settlements (yes, the same settlements condemned by the international community which includes not Europe only, but the US also).

Of course I will not waste other reader's time on other minor issues like the fact that the Israeli citizen consumes in average 6 times water more than the Palestinian (the same water that Israel consumes illegally from Palestinian water reserves, basically, wells in the Palestinian territory but happens to be nearby Israeli settlements). There are some frightening statistics on this issue, but unfortunately I don't remember them.

So basically, these are some statistics to shed light on some facts regarding the conflict, with no condemnation for the editorial staff of JT or whatsoever (like your comment, which claimed that their opinion is very much biased). Maybe you could be kind enough to us and share the statistics you have. Just please bear in mind that reiterating over the fact that Israel has all right to defend its citizens is not considered statistics.
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vladrinAug. 17, 2011 - 07:48AM JST

@BreitbartVictorious

Not so sure on that score, steve. We don't see Israelis burning down their own neighborhoods, looting and rioting, do we.

Well, if you lived in the same conditions, we will see how you would act. What's happening in the Arab world is a revolution on dictatorships. And compared to the French and Russian revolutions, things went relatively smoothly. Partly because people are now much better educated.

What can't be considered a revolution though is what happened in England only a week ago. So what do you propose BreitbartVictorious, to bombard them too? Talking about England, I believe that such riots needs to be analyzed intelligently, and lessons should be drawn from accordingly. Never for a second I had disregard for England when I saw the riots.
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SuperLibAug. 17, 2011 - 10:24AM JST

vladrin: Well, my friend. A news like "rocket fire on southern Israel on Monday night that caused no injuries" really has not much news in it.

But it gives more of a complete picture of the situation. If people woke up and read about daily rocket attacks on Israel they might think of other reasons why Israel does what it does as opposed to just being horrible human beings who just want to kill Palestinians for no reason.

For the past 30-40 years, the US has issued more than 32 vetos on security council resolutions that were against Israel. Which is more than the sum of all of the vetos issued by the US on all other issues in the same period.

And for the past 30-40 years every major peace deal in the region has been brokered (and paid for) by the US. And it's still the US trying to pressure Israel to stop the settlements and trying to bring both sides back to the negotiating table. That speaks more to the level of commitment to the region than often biased, one-sided symbolic UN resolutions that simply seek to criticize Israel while completely ignoring Palestinian crimes.

But what do they know. - Israel has 200-300 nuclear war-heads illegally (in terms that they have no arrangement or whatsoever with the Nuclear Agency or Security Council). Yes, the same weapons they are condemning Iran for trying to have.

Built in cooperation with the French and in complete secrecy from the US, who opposed Israel going nuclear. The entire reason the US supports Israel to the extent we do is all because of the 1973 war, where Israel considered using their European made nukes against the Arabs. As a way to stop this the US agreed to supply Israel with weapons, and here we are today. If you want to talk about hypocrisy with nuclear weapons and Iran/Israel, you really should be spending your time talking about the Europeans.

Only in the past week, Israeli government have agreed on new around 7000 housing units in Israeli settlements (yes, the same settlements condemned by the international community which includes not Europe only, but the US also).

I've personally said that the settlements are counterproductive to the peace process and should be stopped. But despite threats from the US and the EU, Israel continues. This is one area where I always have and always will criticize Israel.

no condemnation for the editorial staff of JT or whatsoever (like your comment, which claimed that their opinion is very much biased). Maybe you could be kind enough to us and share the statistics you have. Just please bear in mind that reiterating over the fact that Israel has all right to defend its citizens is not considered statistics.

I wasn't just talking about JT. They get their articles from international news wires, and my guess is that there just isn't very much reporting overall when the Palestinians fire rockets. But one constant is that the Palestinian rockets are completely ignored until there is an Israel response, then the Israeli response is front page news. Surely you could see how that could skew people's perception of what's going on.
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OracleAug. 17, 2011 - 02:37PM JST

SuperLibAug. 16, 2011 - 10:58PM JST

But it's hard to keep Israel the focus when you mention what other Arabs are doing so it's best to just ignore them.

Take it up with JT. Ask them to write about such things and I will happily comment. This article happens to be about Israel and Gaza. That is the topic. Attacking me for not being off-topic enough for your tastes is utter rot and you know it.

The Palestinian attack isn't reported on until Israel responds, then the response is headlined as "Israel attacks."

Golly and gee whiz! You think that might have something to do with the fact that no one died as a result of the rocket attacks and despite thousands upon thousands of similar attacks, if they are worthy of the title, only a handful have died??

The Israeli response is like reacting to an attack with a pencil by shooting him with not one, but a few RPGs, sometimes killing innocent bystanders as a result. And not only that, but also shooting RPGs as a means of pre-empting pencil attacks you "think" are likely. Yeah, pencil attacks are wrong, and I am sure it can get tiring having them so often, but the response is not remotely proportional. And yes, people have died as a result of being stabbed in the neck with a pencil. Still the response is not proportional.
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OracleAug. 17, 2011 - 02:41PM JST

WilliBAug. 16, 2011 - 11:11PM JST

Israel has all the right in the world to control its its borders to Gazah

Gaza's coastline is not an Israeli border and neither is Gaza's airspace. God forbid you just discuss this fairly.
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SuperLibAug. 17, 2011 - 06:31PM JST

Oracle: Yeah, pencil attacks are wrong, and I am sure it can get tiring having them so often

I never really thought of it that way. Firing tens of thousands of rockets is kind of like attacking someone with a pencil. Surely I can ignore a pencil attack (especially if done using the eraser side), so I suppose I'm forced to ignore rocket attacks. You got me.

Nah. I think if you choose to attack another country on a daily basis you pretty much give up your right to bitch about how they respond. Seems the better choice would be to not attack them in the first place, but maybe I'm just crazy. I suppose in a perfect word the Palestinians would be able to lob rockets at will and Israel would be forced to just sit there and take it.

Ah, what a perfect world that would be, ne?
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OracleAug. 17, 2011 - 09:51PM JST

SuperLibAug. 17, 2011 - 06:31PM JST

Surely I can ignore a pencil attack

It would be hard to ignore a pencil attack. But if you succeeded, ignoring further pencil attacks would be a snap!

I think if you choose to attack another country

Hold it right there! Are you saying Palestine is a country? You did say "another country"? Yes? That implies two countries.

And tell me, if you woke up one morning to find that I had built a five meter high barbed wire fence around your house and won't let you out or anything but what I want in, would you call that an attack or equivalent to an attack? Or is that just an unfortunate circumstance?

I suppose in a perfect word the Palestinians would be able to lob rockets at will and Israel would be forced to just sit there and take it.

What part of "proportional" did you not understand when I said it earlier?
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BreitbartVictoriousAug. 18, 2011 - 12:56AM JST

superlib

Nah. I think if you choose to attack another country on a daily basis you pretty much give up your right to bitch about how they respond

oracle

" But the poor oppressed Palestinians are only firing pencils!"
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SuperLibAug. 18, 2011 - 01:42AM JST

Breitbart: "But the poor oppressed Palestinians are only firing pencils!"

The logic is baffling, isn't it? I suppose the Israelis just have to sit around and wait until the rockets finally start killing a lot of people, then they'll be allowed to kill the people firing them. It's like someone shooting a gun at you and missing, then someone else comes along and says, "Hey, it's not like he's hitting you...."
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SuperLibAug. 18, 2011 - 01:57AM JST

Oracle: And tell me, if you woke up one morning to find that I had built a five meter high barbed wire fence around your house and won't let you out or anything but what I want in

Well I'd be mad as hell. How else can I take shots at my neighbor's wife when he's put a fence around my house? I mean I've tried everything. I've used teenagers, mentally handicapped people, people seeking free medical attention at my neighbors house, disfigured women, donkeys, just about anything that moves as a suicide bomber in an attempt to get around my neighbor's security. It's totally not fair that he would take steps to stop that. I've even raised my children to focus on war instead of education and that hasn't worked. I've killed other people in my house (I hate my cousin who has a room upstairs, even killed members of his family so we don't speak anymore), stolen aid and given it out to preferred family members while letting others starve, and mostly chose a path where I've banged my head into that fence for 50 years only to find that my house had turned into a cesspool. You can't sit there and tell me that there's a better way and that my efforts over the last 50 years of destroying that fence through violence won't eventually pay off. It's just a matter of time.

Now I could accept the fact that my neighbor is there and won't be going anywhere and that everyone else around accepts that and has even made peace with my neighbor, but man, I'm telling you, if I throw another couple of generations of my grandkids into that fence it's bound to pay off at some point. You just wait and see. The other neighbors who made peace are just idiots who gave up too soon.