Justice Department sues Utah over immigration law
The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.
JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
-
U.N. Security Council blames Syrian gov't for Houla killings
( 2 )
-
U.S. drones kill 5 militants in Pakistan
( 3 )
-
NATO has fight on its hands in Afghanistan - Panetta
( 1 )
-
Iran may rethink 20% enrichment: spokesman
( 0 )
-
Egypt's uprising activists weigh Brotherhood vote
( 0 )
-
- ALT - Mie Prefecture - Yokkaichi City - June start
- NPO法人グローバル教育推進機構（GLAD), Mie
- Salary: ¥230,000 / Month For a full working month. Some months differ.
-
- Business Teaching Positions - Part-time - Kanto Region
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥3,000 ~ ¥5,000 / Hour
-
- National Relief/Substitute Teacher - summer start
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥275,000 ~ ¥300,000 / Month
Order by Time Order by Popularity
11 Comments
Login to comment
-4
Elbuda Mexicano
It is funny, states like Utah, Arizona etc..pass these crazy laws, then their vegetables rot in the fields, because the poor Mexican and Central Americans that are the season laborers are being pressured to leave those states, oh poor USA wants to have cheap vegetables but not have to deal with all of those poor brown people coming to not only work in the USA but heaven forbid that they may have hopes and dreams just like other people in the USA,
3
Triumvere
True. Too bad the federal gov't as for so long shirked its responisbilitiies in this regard.
0
okimike67
Are you from Utah? Have you been there? I am and I was ther just weeks ago!
The only pressure is fro those that reside in my fair state to be LEGAL! Is that too much to ask???? I assume that you live in Japan and are legal so no beef there, at least it proves that legal immigration is possible.
But if you think is a "deal with the poor brown people", an overtly racist statement I might add, you are WRONG! First, its a law that is being broken and should/must be enforced. Second, those illegal aliens (key word ILLEGAL) are involved in drug running, extorsion, murder and kidnapping (in no particular order). Its not the migrants that are the root cause of this enforcement, it is the the same element Elbuda that has made news on the border. I/WE dont want this in our State or our Country. And if the US Government wont do something about it then there is no choice but for the State to. Utah and Arizona should be applauded!!
Lastly, why is it that my wife of some 20+ years has to wait for over 1 year to legally enter the States. And yet, many US citizens (not all of hispanic descent but sure mostly Liberals) want to freely allow those that have entered OUTSIDE the law free citizenship, medical coverage, food stamps, college for their kids........ on and on and on. Why?? The majority is fast changing from Anglo to Hispanic and pandering to the majority is a good way to get votes. Not on my watch, not in my State.
-1
okimike67
And there is the problem. The FED wont so the States must. It is simply costing them too much (ask California) to do nothing since the FED mandates all of thes eprograms and yet funds them not. And even if they did fund them it still is morally bankrupt to take money from legal tax payers and give to illegal aliens (or their kids, grand parents...).
3
warallthetime
@Elbuda Mexicano There are appropriate visas for Seasonal Labor. Also you are only pointing out one convenient aspect of illegal immigration. What kind of country doesn't punish people for not coming in through the front door? It's madness. Mexico's immigration policies are more strict than the U.S.
0
tmarie
Well said Oki! I don't get why people don't get that illegal is illegal and breaking the law. Who pays for their kids to be educated in the locals schools? The tax payers. Who pays for the street lights, the roads... The taxpayers. These people don't pay taxes. To be honest though, I think those who hire them also need to be held responsible. If there jobs weren't there for them, they wouldn't come.
0
Triumvere
State-Immigration-Law-Supporters: You say you want to deal with illegal immigration, but I have trouble believing you. There reason is simple: there is a very easy way to stop illegal immigrants: target the businesses that employ them. But you don't do that. Instead you cook up half-baked laws that practically guarentee racial profiling and discrimination. And then you wonder why people think you are racist.
This isn't some side issue. This is the root of the problem. This is where you go if you want to solve it.
Look, we as a nation need to decide what sort of immigration we want. We haven't managed to do that. Significant segments of the economy depend migrant workers, who, being "illegal" are effectively denied the protection of the law. These people are being exploited just as much as they are exploiting the US taxpayer, and it is bad for everyone (save the businesses that profit off them).
To solve the illegal immigration problem you A) crack down on businesses employing illegal immigrants and B) secure the border (to the extent that this is possible). However, you are then left with the issue of what to do with the ones already here. You have three options:
1) Round them up an deport them 2) Set up paths to citizenship which will allow them to legal work, live and pay taxes, integrating them into the workforce 3)Wait for the crackdown on employers to dry up opportunities so they go home on ther own
... problem is that only two of these are viable options. You can't really round them up and deport them - there are too many, it's simply not practical. Yet this is the solution most "immigration warriors" are pushing. And not only is it ineffective (with collateral damage in terms of local economies and civil rights) on our end, but because you have not done the two prerequisites (sealing the border and cutting off employment opportunites) the same people you deport just come immediately right back.
So what we need to decide, as a nation, is whether we want these people here (legally - option #2) or whether we don't (option #3). I know "amenesty" is not popular with the right, (for a variety of reasons, ranging from principles of fairness and law-abiding, to fear about job competition to, yes (in some quarters) racism and xenophobia), but option two is probably the most practical. As I said previously, these people are an important part of the economy. This is the real reason that Washington, D & R, has done nothing to fix illegal immigration. (If you want to see what these state immigration laws can do to local economies, take a look at what is happenning in Alabama right now.) So we want these people to work, and to spend their money at local businesses, but we also want them to pay taxes, get health insurance, and report crimes to police when they are victims/witnesses. All this can be achieved through a path to citizenhip (or atleast residence) program. And I understand that this is unfair to people who are waiting in line for legal entrance papers, but it's a real world solution to a huge problem that avoids a lot of moral ugliness (families broken apart, children ripped from schools, communites busted up, etc...)
Your only other option is to choak off the supply of jobs through strict employer crackdowns and wait for the problem to slowly solve itself. But that's doing to take time, and it's going to be quite painful to local economies, businesses and communities. It also does nothing to deal with crime, tax, and health issues in the meantime.
Look, these people are here now, and we have to find a way to deal with them. They are real, genuine, functioning people (not "illegals" or "aliens", which makes them sound like some sort of easily dissmssable non-human entity) that live, work, and raise families here. Having to deal with real people is why states do seemingly absurd things, like issuing drivers licences to them or giving them public schooling and instate tuition rates. No, illegal immigrants should not have drivers licenses. But, ramping up inflammatory and discriminitory laws which are totaly ineffective and then pretending the ones that are already here essentially don't exist isn't an option.
1
JeremiahW
Every day is "Cinco de Quatro", as President O is fond of saying.
-1
okimike67
Nice narration on the solution. The problem, and why the USG is sueing the States is that it is the USG's job and they are REFUSING TO DO IT. In fact Obama's dis-administration has ordered ICE to specifically not enforce many of the laws on the books. Only logical reason is for votes???
We dont need more laws we just need enforcement. And because the States cant afford the status quo they have little choice but to enact State laws that they can enforce.
Real quick run down on your points and shortfalls;
Great plan but the ACLU adn the FEDS?? have made it impossible for the employer to require legal residence. Also, they are required to have a ssn but not to verify if it is legit. SOme companies have many employees withthe SAME SSN!
Aother great plan but unless you are Arizona that really is not a reality. Despite MASSIVE amounts of DRUGS AND CRIMINALS (and I dont mean lettus pickers) pouring across, and bet you could put a few terrorists in the mix as well, they do nothing. ANd when Border Patrol agent stry to enforce the law it is they that get brought up on charges.
Round em up and deport em: Best come first. DO IT! Not cost effective???? Do you have a CLUE what it is costing the State and Fed to allow them to stay????? WAY CHEAPER TO ROUND EM UP!
Path to Citizenship: What a load of CRAP!! This is the LIBS plan to help inflate the voting roles so they can keep power. The law should NOT allow REWARDS for breaking the law and not getting caught. Oh, and this also SCREWS all of those legally trying to enter through the front door. What kind of message does that send about our country???
Employer Penalties: Just take the ACLU's and FED restraints off them and yea, make them check for proper ability to work. But the FED will have to have a SSN system that they can interface with so that a SSN showing employment in multiple areas is a red flag. But lets be clear, ITS THE FEDS JOB TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION AND NOT EMPLOYEERS!!!!
All this crap about the underground labor as a vital part of the economy is also a steaming pile of DODO!! 10's of 1,000's seasonally pour across the border LEGALLY to work the fields. Also, a great number of legal permanent residents also work in a great number of jobs.
There is no legitimate reason to allow amnesty for ANYBODY that has chosen to violate the laws of our country, leech upon our society (sometims for decades), displace taxpayers children from colleges and other social programs, drain our school systems because the school is mandated to provide an educatiuon to them in their language......
I entered a foriegn country legally, have lived here and worked here legally, pay a tax that is the same as a citizens and for the most part get the same benifits afforded a citizen (except voting). I do know what it is like to be discriminated against, disadvantaged due to the color of my skin/eyes/name (as do my kids but lets not go there), and yet I choose to stay.
It really PISSES ME OFF when some jackass is caught for breaking the law and it is a gaijin that has overstayed. I really want them to get thrashed. I follow the law and expect all others to do so as well. To reward those that dont undermines our entire society. If you can justify exceptions to the law for some, because this amnesty plan being pushed ONLY applies to Hispanics for some reason, then whay should any law be respected by anybody.
Fully expect some negative thumbs which will just prove my point that there are some real stupid people out there. Probably the same ones that support Occupy, GreenPeace, Global Warming, Anti Nuke Power,Move On, ACLU..... all of which are merely tools of the decay of our society.
0
Triumvere
Two thoughts.
1) The Alabama situation belies this. When the laws went up, the immigrants went elsewere, both legal and illegal. Farmers were unable to get US citizens to perform the jobs. Now, again, part of this is legal immigrants getting scared off for fear of racial discrimination (a real issue with these laws). But to imagine that the illegals are not a significant part of the crop picking workforce seems highly unrealistic.
2) These people are obviously part of the local economy. They work, make money, and spend a lot of that money locally at shops, restaraunts, etc... They may not pay income taxes, but take them away and that money also goes away. This too can be seen in Alabama. You talk about these immigrants as if they were all somewhow welfare queens or drug dealers, completely disconnected from the legal economy. That's silly. Most of them are here for work. That's why they came.
Okimike, you spend a lot of time talking about what people "deserve"; and I agree, people don't deserve to be rewarded for breaking the law. But I don't see your solution as practical. Furthermore, "deserve" is a contentious isssue: Do the kids who have been brought here at the age of two deserve to be ripped from their schools and friends, to kids that are citizens by virtue of birth here deserve to face a choice between their families and their homeland? Do communities deserve rent assunder. I think Newt Gingrich (shock! horror!!) actually got it right when he talked about dealing humanely with illegal immigrants who had established strong ties to the community.
We strongly disagree with the feisiblity of 1) round'em up and deport'em. Can we at least agree that this solution remains totally ineffective as long as the 2) border is open and 3) the job opportunities are still there? Round'em up now and they'll be back tomorrow.
0
Triumvere
On a side note, I don't get the rightwing hate for the ACLU.
We have set up an adversarial justice system, where each side is supposed to be zealously represented. We have done this, because we believe this is the best way to get at the truth. And adversarial system demands that someone defend the accused, and challange infringments on liberty. The ACLU's entire purpose is to do the "dirty jobs" no one wants to do, like defending accused terrorists and what not. You should really be thanking them. Without them, the system wouldn't work.
Not that the ACLU is above criticism. As a libertarian I am occasionaly dissapointed when they fail to take of certain causes, seemingly on ideological grounds. But the job they do is an extremely important one.
Back to top