Malaysia arrests 9 Christians for trying to convert Muslims

Wednesday 15th July, 02:01 PM JST

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kansaigent at 05:46 AM JST - 20th July

I think the philosophy under discussion here is the basic human right to choose one's religion. In Malaysia I believe it is illegal for a Muslim to change their religion. This is far different than someone trying to prothlesize. If someone comes to my door I can choose to say no. Even if this is offensive (I am Christian and find door to door Christian evangelists offensive) but I politely say no thank you. It is different than a government not allowing a choice.

Stanley - we are still waiting for an answer as to which states prohibit conversion of Christians. Furthermore if there are such laws (would like evidence) the Supreme Court would rule them unconstitutional in about 30 seconds.

I have met many Muslims. Many of which I like. Some of which freely discuss religion with me (Muslims also consider Jesus a great prophet). On the other hand there are radical Muslims (as with other religions) that believe that Islam must be imposed by the sword and conversion must be disallowed. I do not have a problem with Islam but I do have a big problem with the lack of choice and lack of woman's rights.

It seems a somewhat radical element exists in Malaysia's government as well as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. etc.

Do unto others as you would like them to do with you...I believe Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all share this value. So if you do not want someone to force you to be a religion then do not force others.

Peace
grafton at 09:08 AM JST - 20th July

JoeBigs at 05:46 AM JST - 16th July

“In the words of one of In the words of one of the worlds greatest showmen and a great con artist; Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

Aleister Crowley the worlds greatest showmen and a great con artist?

Crowley developed his own weird & wonderful “religion”, if I remember something call “Felima” (but don’t quote me on that name) & for him & his followers it was a very serious thing, part mysticism, part occult with a large dollop of black magic mixed in. Whatever you may think of him calling him a showman &/or con artist really isn’t fair. Total lunatic I would have agreed with.

Yuudair. Don’t underestimate you level of English, it is excellent & more than adequate for what you were trying to say. In fact better than many who would say English is their first language. As a person I have nothing but respect for you, but I also believe that you would still be that same person whatever religion you believed in. It isn’t being a Muslim that makes you the person that wrote so well here. Who tried so hard to achieve a calm understanding among what can sometimes be a pack of wolves.

So many of here cannot agree with your reasoning that a person wanting to leave the Muslim religion will be seen as not making a rational decision. That is saying that a person who wishes to stop being a Muslim must be in a state of insanity & in need of looking after. I was under the impression that the Jewish, Christian & Muslim one god gave free expression to all people? Or is that to all people apart from the mentally needy?

As I am sure you know, in most western countries many parents teach their young children about father Christmas, this is a convenient fantasy & if done sensibly can help a child grow up with a lesson in responsibility. It is a nonsense & a lie, but sometimes a useful lie. But there comes a point when a child leaves behind childish things, they grow up & use their own intellect to look at the world & as they grow up they understand the function that “Santa” played in their childhood. And they know he was not real (sorry if I have let the cat out of the bag for some others here). For me mankind was the child that needed a “father” when it was growing up. I can see no reason at all why any human being today feels they need to believe in a god of any kind. Simply removing religion out of all our lives would make no (negative) difference. We would lose nothing apart from the hate & the killing, the things that divide us. None of the beliefs that others seem to find so very important plays any part in my life & yet I am not in any way damaged by this. There was a time when belief in a god was needed, that time has passed.

I would never ask, tell or try to persuade another to give up what they believe, I simply do not have the right to even try such a thing, but I do have the right to demand that you all keep your religions to yourselves.

What would any of us think if we read on this site that a man somewhere in the world believed in the tooth fairy & had killed his neighbour because that neighbour didn’t believe in the tooth fairy? That is how I se religion. Now expand that, not just Malaysian, but the whole world.
bushlover at 10:39 AM JST - 20th July

[So, this means not everyone can be rational because some are mis-informed & mis-educated.]

Yeah who? Non Muslims or those trying to leave the religion of Islam it sounds as if you are saying. You nullified all those nice sentiments you were trying to convey. As hypocritical as all the other "religious" people who try to justify their own religions.
nandakandamanda at 10:55 AM JST - 20th July

What is the best religion?

We are born pure and uncluttered and that is how we should die. Surely the best religion is the one that helps you maintain a living relationship with the power that keeps us all alive.

If you are getting that, fine. If you are not getting that, or if you are getting something else instead, then maybe it is time to change and try a different approach.

Does not religion become potentially dangerous when you allow others to make your decisions for you?
OhioDonna at 03:21 AM JST - 21st July

Would Malaysian authorities arrest Muslims trying to convert Christians?
JoeBigs at 11:10 AM JST - 21st July

OhioDonna at 03:21 AM JST - 21st July Would Malaysian authorities arrest Muslims trying to convert Christians?

OhioDonna, Muslims do not go door to door trying to convert you. Not their bag of tea. If you wish to convert then you go to a Mosque and study.
Muchakucha at 03:11 PM JST - 21st July

JoeBigs:

OhioDonna, Muslims do not go door to door trying to convert you.

Then I guess those guys in middle eastern dress who used to push 'submit to Allah' leaflets in my face nearly every day when I worked in Egdware Rd, London, must have been imposters.

If you wish to convert then you go to a Mosque and study.

And if you're a Muslim who wishes to convert to anything else (including agnosticism) you die. Horses for courses really.
JenniferKim at 04:22 PM JST - 21st July

Muslims in the West often complain about the "prejudice" they encounter -- but the undeniable truth is, they face far less prejudice (and enjoy far more freedom) than non-Muslims do in predominantly Muslim countries.
Farmboy at 04:40 PM JST - 21st July

I think if someone wants to convert, and approaches members of that religion because of a desire to do so, that's fine, but I find the aggressive pushing of a religion upon people of other faiths, or of no faith, to be offensive, and I would welcome a law that prevents it in every country. In this story, however, it is not clear that this is what occurred. The people may be innocent of the accusation.
Kronos at 04:53 PM JST - 21st July

"Farmboy at 04:40 PM JST - 21st July

I think if someone wants to convert, and approaches members of that religion because of a desire to do so, that's fine, but I find the aggressive pushing of a religion upon people of other faiths, or of no faith, to be offensive, and I would welcome a law that prevents it in every country. In this story, however, it is not clear that this is what occurred. The people may be innocent of the accusation."

This. Most sensible and on the topic thing said in these comments so far.
OhioDonna at 01:07 AM JST - 22nd July

If you wish to convert then you go to a Mosque and study.

I beg to differ with that comment. Muslims have been known to try to convert outside of the Mosque. Maybe its a new thing.

I just do not believe that anyone should be arrested for trying to convert another whatever their religion may be. I say this even though I have been bombarded by those wishing to convert me to their religion. I would never jeopardize my religious freedom by denying others.
Farmboy at 04:14 AM JST - 22nd July

OhioDonna,

For me, religious freedom is important too, but it means the right to worship God, or not worship God, in your own way. I do not think it includes the right to annoy others by going to their residence uninvited. That crosses the line for me.
Muchakucha at 11:14 AM JST - 22nd July

JenniferKim is on the right lines. This isn't a 'is proselytizing a good or bad thing' discussion. It's hitting on the fundamental truth that in Islamic countries, the law is stacked firmly in Islam's interests, and minorities are suppressed. It's ok to convert TO Islam, but not from FROM Islam (once born a Muslim, you can never leave.) Other religions are suppressed, or even outright illegal (eg pracitising any religion other than Islam is illegal in Saudi Arabia.) One never hears of non-Muslim's demanding rights in Muslim countries, yet in the west, even though governments go to extremes in order to accommodate the demands of Muslims, it never seems to be enough. When it comes to reciprocation, Islam is all for 'an eye for an eye', but never 'I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.'
Muchakucha at 11:31 AM JST - 22nd July

Gombei424Canada:

I was relieved to see I'm not the only person who read the headline about religious oppression in Malaysia and immediately thought of America

WHAT? There's absolutely NO comparison. In Malaysia and other Islamic countries changing your Muslim religion is ILLEGAL! Is there any such law in America or any other western country?
Nessie at 03:26 PM JST - 22nd July

Is [religion irrational dosh] Nessie? Is it really?

Yes. Really.

The Big Bang Theory is pretty much proven. So is your very being.

What's your point?

Natural sciences have traditionally been accepted by all the great Faiths, Illuminating Truths.

No, they haven't. Not when they contradict dogma, which they often do.

Both Christianity, Judaism and Islam are religions of the "Book". The Big Bang Theory which helped scientist make a statement about the first trillionth of a second of the beginning of the Universe is just a mind boggling fact. People of Faith are just astonished and communication between Islam and the Judeo/Christian world would bring a great understanding of each other. Islamic countries must allow this freedom of religion. It benefits everyone.

Hmmm...still not getting your point. I'd like to, if you care to rephrase.

Moderator: Please don't. All readers back on topic please.