Mass migrations and war: Dire climate scenario

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    Molenir

    Did anyone else reading this have a wth moment, or is that just me? I mean, this people haven't got a clue about the real world. replacing coal plants with windmills? Solar? Anyone who has even the slightest clue about the subject knows that neither of these are worth doing. Windfarms don't work. Solar is neither cost effective or energy efficient.

    Melting Ice, rising seas, dwindling lakes? Where? The latest report is that they underestimated the level of sea ice by half million kilometers. (Greater then the area of California) And when they sit there and discuss the "costs" of climate change without a clue as to the real world, I have to admit, it really causes me to be concerned for the future. Not because of climate change, but because the so-called leaders.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Molenir - "Melting Ice, rising seas, dwindling lakes? Where?"

    Are you kidding?

    This is a joke, right?

  • 0

    bebert

    We got oceans. Sink the boats.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    bebert, is "We wreck it, You pay for it" the new mantra??

  • 0

    Scrote

    Anyone who has a clue will know that there are indeed some promising solar power technologies: not based on photovoltaic cells, but using reflectors to concentrate sunlight and boil water. Spain has built some fairly large experimental generators: they are cheap and efficient. Such devices would be ideal for hot, sunny countries.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    Melenir - "Windfarms don't work."

    They are working very well, thanks, in more and more places around America, Scandinavia, Germany, Britain, New Zealand, you name it.

    "Solar is neither cost effective or energy efficient."

    Not yet. It will be very soon. I've seen factories in Japan that have what appear to be see-through glass roofing. Actually, they are highly efficient solar panels that also let the light in.

    Oh, and did you miss the latest development news about solar panels that you can roll up? Probably..,..

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Global warming is a very important issue, but runing around howling about farfetched doomsday scenarios only makes people skeptical about global warming in the first place. These guys would be a lot more credible if hey would actually sit down and admit there is a hell of a lot we still don't know about climate change, or acknowledge the practical difficulties of reducing carbon emitions. But, no, can't show and doubt or uncertaintly, can we? We must pretend we know exactly what is going on, and what is going to happen, and brook no compromise at any point. These fools imagine that they are scaring people into action, but they are really just shooting themselves, and the casue, in the foot.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Agreed. Action needs to be taken, but just taking action for the sake of taking action without knowing the results is folly. We need to do a lot more research to decide what the best way to handle it will be.

  • 0

    VOR

    the politics of fear alive and well.

  • 0

    30061015

    Global warming, global cooling, global warming, global cooling... about every 10,000-15,000 years. Has to do with volcanic activity and/or sun cycles. The sun is actually in a lower energy cycle now. For all we know we could be going into another ice age!

    Humans do a hell of a lot to destroy the environment, but come on...we haven't been around long enough to know that human activity is heating the globe. The sky is falling!! Its just a guilt trip socialist scam to rip off "rich" nations and Al Gore is their high priest.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Molenir: "Solar is neither cost effective or energy efficient."

    That's because people like you insist on denying the fact that global warming is largely if not completely human-made, and refuse to look at alternative energy research without scoffing and coming up with wild claims like there is no melting ice.

    INVEST in alternative energy R&D (something Obama is going to do, by the way), and start producing solar energy panels, etc. on a large scale, and it will become extremely efficient.

    but hey... no war can be a bad thing for some, eh, amigo?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    VOR: "the politics of fear alive and well."

    Please... this from a guy who screams Obama wanting to provide health care and education to all is akin to bringing Socialism to the US!

    Come on, bud... contribute to the discussion in a serious way. All of what is said here, much as it might cause fear in you, has a lot of truth to it, if not completely true.

    I really don't understand what a lot of you have against more environmentally friendly products and power generation, even if you honestly believe the whole global warming issue is a farce.

  • 0

    SushiSake3

    superlib - "Agreed. Action needs to be taken, but just taking action for the sake of taking action without knowing the results is folly. We need to do a lot more research to decide what the best way to handle it will be."

    [Noting you voted for President Obama] - How do we know the results if the models and outcomes are changing by the year? A couple of years ago, scientists were saying the Arctic would be gone in 30 years. Now, some scientists are saying it could be gone in 10-15.

    And what about the North West Passage through the Arctic Ocean along the northern coast of North America that is opening up for the first time in centuries?

    And, how much research is enough until we get off our butts and do something to address the very issue that our Earth is warming?

    Is carrying out more research a good substitute for lack of action when something is so obviously wrong with the eco-systems that support us?

    When is enough enough?

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Sushi, read carefully what I'm writing, then respond.

    I believe the earth is warming, and I believe it's because of man. No need to give me examples of warming or dire consequences. We already have agreement there.

    What I don't agree with is the process of throwing money at the problem when we have no idea what the result of that money throwing will be. Show me a "solution" to saving the environment and I'll show you a scientist behind it who really doesn't know what impact it will have, if any. Even if every country in the world followed Kyoto (not just signed it) we don't even know if that will have a positive impact or not. I don't think we should be sacrificing entire economies and millions of jobs on a "maybe."

    We need money for research. We need to know that if we commit billions of dollars and change our lifestyles that the overall change will be positive. That's what no one can guarantee right now. Everyone is in a rush to "save the environment" that they're spelling out plans and packages that have little to no guarantees. But we have to placate those who just want action for action's sake and that's what I don't agree with. Back up your actions with positive conclusions and I'll sign on.

  • 0

    Wolfpack

    No scientist can 'prove' that the current global warming cycle is caused by people. There are some interesting theories and highly suspect climate models based on a great number of assumptions - that's it. Correlation does not prove causation. I won't be bludgeoned into agreeing with the Al Gore doomsday scenarios when there is no scientific "consensus" on the science - no matter how often Liberals say there is - and the idea of human causes for global warming cannot be proven. My understanding is that currently, greenhouse gases make up only one percent of the total volume of the atmosphere. The source of these greenhouse gases vary based on many factors such as volcanic activity and solar output. Human's "might" also be a significant contributor to that as well. But it is a great leap in thinking to say that human activity is the single or even most significant cause of the increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and that this is the reason for the current warming trend.

    There have been sudden warming periods in earth's past when humans were not burning fossil fuels. It is certainly possible that the same causes of those previous relatively quick warming periods could be causing the current warming - totally independent of the fact that humans are burning fossil fuels. Personally, I think that solar cycles and volcanic activity have much more to do with global temperatures than the human use of fossil fuels.

    I think that alternative fuels such as solar and wind are a good idea for national security reasons. But they are not ready yet to take over the primary role of providing energy in place of fossil fuels. At some point, if these technologies and others are more cost efficient than the current energy mix, then that's great. If not, we shouldn't be forced to use expensive alternative fuels based on an incomplete understanding of global climate.

  • 0

    bushlover

    Wolfpack that is more levelheaded thinking than these doomsdayers and their global warming is all our fault crowd. Maybe what we need is to cull the animal kingdom. Is it time for a war to get rid of some of us bad humans? A billion cutting the Earth's population to 3/4 should help. No that's not gonna fly either. Well we'll have to wait for all the do-gooders to stop using products that contain petroleum. I'm willing to bet that won't fly either.

  • 0

    Molenir

    That's because people like you insist on denying the fact that global warming is largely if not completely human-made, and refuse to look at alternative energy research without scoffing and coming up with wild claims like there is no melting ice.

    Didn't say theres no melting ice. Ice melts all the time. Freezes all the time too. Thats the way the cycle works. However too many alarmists like yourself have been spouting off how all the ice in the ocean is melting. Saying silly stuff about disaster scenarios. The simple fact of the matter is, that latest news about icepack volume was significantly under reported. There is an additional Half Million square Kilometers of sea ice then has been reported. Thats greater then the size of California. So, now that that little statistic is out. All the hysteria about melting sea ice, polar bears, and global warming should start to die down. Except of course it won't. People like you for whom Climate change is a religion aren't concerned with facts. For you its a matter of faith.

    Regarding alternative energy. Windfarms don't work. Or rather they do, however wind isn't constant. Because of this the amount of power being generated is inconsistent. This means that windfarms require an additional plant being kept online to maintain the load. Solar power would be great if it was cost effective. Unfortunately it isn't. All these new technologies you people have been spouting off about here, even still they don't approach even 13% efficiency. Add the maintenance costs, and it simply isn't cost effective. To put it simply, there is a very long way to go before solar starts to replace standard energy generation methods, except on a very small scale.

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