McCain, Obama trade barbs in 2nd debate
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RomeoRamenII
AP is in in-the-tank-for-obama overdrive on this "news" story.
Isn't obama and Joe Depot members of the same Senate chamber as Mr. McCain? One would never know it by reading this article.
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rjd_jr
Like the economy, Mccain is worn out and tired and haggard. These last few weeks before the election is the last gasp effort of a dying campaign.
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adaydream
And John McCain is a financial wizard?
I don't think so.
Ta-Ta John. Back to the senate you go. < :-)
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Sarge
I see that, according to the latest Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll, Obama's poll numbers are down - he's got just a 3% lead now. But not to worry. There's no way he can lose against a 72 year old man who, two decades ago, made the mistake of participating in two meetings with banking regulators on behalf of Charles Keating, and, before that, fought for his country in Vietnam. Obama has said if McCain raises the issue of his past association with the terrorist Bill Ayers, he's going to be ready!
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RomeoRamenII
If the debate has anything to do with Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and the economy, I wouldn't be suprised if obama claims that it is all above his pay grade.
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RomeoRamenII
The democrats have been in control of the House and Senate for about two years now, and the stock market drop began about a year and a half ago.
democrats are bad for the economy. Unless you are a minority with no money and no job and want to getcha a new house. Then you just go to barney frank or obama or Freddie or Fannie and sign on the dotted line.
Of course, this is something the democrats and their supporters don't want to talk about. Along with the fact that President Bush and Mr. McCain both called for more regulation of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae years ago.
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smithinjapan
sarge: ah, the 'Zogby' poll... well, not to burst your bubble, but the polls are now in the double digits for an Obama lead in a number of states, my friend. Try not to cry, sarge... I mean, you were a couple of days ago when you admitted that the Dems. have it and before you did a McCain style 180 degree flip-flop, but I still think you have some tears on the brink.
Not to worry, though, l'il partner; Obama will make this a BETTER place for you, not a worse one. I know it'll be hard to swallow, but the truth is often a bitter pill for those who refuse to take it (in case you want to cut and paste, I mean Republicans here, sarge).
As to McCain himself... what a loser! Yes, let's 'turn the page' on the economy issue, johnny, because we certainly know the financial crisis is over and it's high time to resort to character attacks!
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smithinjapan
And as for Palin, it's just come up that she may not be paying any taxes on the per diem for her work office in Alaska (or rather, that she's charging the state a per diem for staying nights at home while working in her office during the day)... not good timing, given the economy... and good fodder for Obama and Biden.
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adaydream
Ah-h-h-h the Gallop poll shows a 9 point lead for Barack.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008.aspx
Remember John McCain is the deregulation king.
Thanks John for the deregulations that you helped push through.
Helped crash the market. < :-)
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buddha4brains
These debates have become part of the latest and perhaps greatest reality show. The amount of media and discussion around the world is off the scale.
Is this a death watch as America spirals in financial and political flames? Or is this a demonstration of how America can once again overcome its worst instincts and inspire us all?
So pull up your chair, get out your favourite snack, wake up your avatar and add your bit of flotsam to the jetsam.
Let's Go Future!!! What do you have in store for us all? That is the question on everyone's mind.
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tkoind2
McCain and his pitpull redneck sidekick Palin are in for a defeat so painful they cannot imagine it.
Palin will go back to Alaska where investigations will render her political career devoid of opportunity to take the national stage again. And McCain will retire and take up some role in the GOP where he can do little real harm.
Obama and Biden will go on to run the country and start putting our nation back on track.
Though McCain is good in town hall meetings, I think Obama will crush him in this debate because he has a clear message, clear ideas about what needs to be done and people are ready for change. McCain is clearly out of ideas and desperate as his choice of back country Palin and this Ayers nonsense clearly demonstrate.
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tkoind2
RomeoRamenII. Denial is a powerful thing isn't it?
There was a budget surplus during Clinton's administration and the economy was doing very well. Brother Bush comes in, releases more regulations setting the banks loose to run amock and get us into this mess. Not to mention his war, failure to deal with domestic issues and unending capacity to block rational measures from congress.
You can try all you want to displace blame on the Democrats for the mess we are in. But the American voter gets is a clearly as they get the pain and fear they are feeling about how things are going in the economy.
They know GWB and 8 years or leadership by right wing morons has made the rich richer and the rest of us worried and a lot worst off. There is no running from this fact, no campaign lies will cover it up, no plausible deniablity will work. The people know the GOP president and his idiot policies and war got us here and there is nothing you can dream up to change that fact. Bush is hurting McCain and may be the end of the GOP for a while. And good riddance!
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adaydream
McCain and Phil Gramm's names come up over and over again in stories about credit default swaps. The stock market is $60Trillion in debt over these unregulated/uninsured tradeables.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080701DaveDavies__AfewminuteswithMcCain.html < :-)
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Nippon5
I heard they are going to have cream pies to throw at each other like all the other clowns in the circus....
Maybe we will get lucky and they both will break down and tell the truth..
"We really have no idea what the hell we are going to do if elected, we cant do anything about the economy, we cant change really anything we just say that to make you vote, Obama is really a terrorist and is part of a AQ cell, I(John) wasnt really a POW I was being trained to take over the US for Vietnam, Both our wives are really men and had sex changes in Thailand, and finally that wasnt a brit at the Moat it was me(John) in the buff Obama bet me 10 bucks I wouldnt do it.."
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buddha4brains
Spoiler Alert!!! Do NOT read Nippon5's post above. I did and now that I know the truth I am booking my tickets for the 2012 race.
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Nippon5
buddha4brains at 09:54 AM JST - 8th October
Spoiler Alert!!! Do NOT read Nippon5's post above. I did and now that I know the truth I am booking my tickets for the 2012 race.
Damn sorry didnt mean to leak that information , but it was posted on. www.ObamaMcCainterroristdrunkswithpitbullsandlipstick.org
:)
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Sarge
"Brother Bush comes in, releases more regulations setting the banks loose to run amuck"
Yes, we need the government to run the banks like they do in Cuba and North Korea, lol...
"The people know the GOP president and his idiot policies and war got us here"
No, the people have been deluded into thinking that.
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Sarge
tkoind2 ( 9:28 AM ) - That's some wild imagination you've got there.
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yabits
It is now nearly an hour into the second debate. I am annoyed that neither candidate will provide straight answers to the questions being asked of them -- but while Obama's performance leaves much to be desired, McCain's is nothing less than atrocious.
Every time he says "my friends," he sounds like an antiquated version of Professor Harold Hill.
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smithinjapan
sarge: "No, the people have been deluded into thinking that."
Hahaha... this is sarge saying people have been 'deluded'! HAHA! One of the only remaining bush supporters after the rest of the ignorant people who initially supported him have woken up. sarge, bud... it's only you and a very very VERY small percentage of the population that still think the way you do... In other words, it's YOU who's been deluded. Or wait... is the fact that Bush now actually has the lowest approval rate in history not enough to prove it? We have told you countless times that bush will go down as the worst US president in history, but I don't think any of us knew how fast that would be written in the books. Already people know it! Imagine how the books are going to see him in a few years!! hahaha...
Oh, but sarge... keep on thinking it's the rest of us who have been deluded, and not the dwindling 18% or so of remaining supporters. HAHA!
As for McCain and Co., they are are too tied into bush and the suffering he's caused your nation -- from surplus under Clinton to bust, and that's fact! -- and he's going down. So much for the polls you quoted earlier (another example of whom exactly has been deluded).
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Nippon5
strange I find McCain answering the questions, but Obama is dancing around trying to use Bush as often as possible.
Also Obama started the personal attacks in his first 20 seconds
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tkoind2
Sarge, you do know that the 20th century is over and the whole red scrare thing is done right?!
What about poor white republicans makes them so happy to rich white republicans make massive amounts of money? I grew up in a red state that votes GOP ticket every election. It is a state with a lot of industrial industry as well as government related workers making up a lot of the population. Both do better under democrats who invest more in domestic production, resist the shipment of jobs overseas and invest in government programs. All of which put money into the pockets of the very same people who vote against them year on year.
They say they vote for the GOP because the GOPs supports their morals and values. Yet the same GOP clearly cares more about making the business leaders rich while caring very little for the average worker. And there are few "moral" points that really separate us.
More and more I think poor working white GOP voters are just masochistic and self destructive. Or deluded like Sarge into the propaganda that makes them think if they work long and hard enough, go to church and vote GOP that they will get rich or become some kind of patriotic icon. When the reality is that voting GOP takes money out of their pockets, reduces programs to educate their kids, sends many of them off to die in pointless wars and leaves them out in the cold in favor of the GOP's really interests, the rich.
So Sarge, have fun in the 20th century where you and all the other GOP folks really belong. The rest of us are going to watch Obama crush McCain and get on with building the 21st century.
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Sarge
"Obama is dancing around trying to use Bush as often as possible"
That's 'cause he's running against Bush. McCain's just this pesky fly.
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yabits
Nippon5: Are you sure you aren't watching the World Wrestling Federation?
McCain is wandering all around the area like a kid lost at the zoo. Yes, my friends, we're going to have to sit down at a table and put party politics aside. Asked to prioritize, McCain refused. Asked for how Americans should sacrifice, McCain came up with two minutes of nothing.
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Nippon5
Its a town hall meeting and its how it should be , he is suppose to talk to the people not the camera. If it was a sit down like the last one then you are talking to a camera. He said we dont need to prioritize because we should be able to multitask. Im not for McCain but he is doing a much better job then Obama.
Obama is angry, he is talking to the camera and not the person asking the question, His story and McCains are basically the same that they have been saying the whole time, both are still lying,, but McCain is answering the actual questions and not talking about the last question. Obama is going over the time every time too. ]
Its not a political thing to win a debate its the ability to debate, and McCain seems in his element here... Obama seems kinda lost.
Sorry you dont see it that way but I havent insulted you saying what are you watching another cartoon? So grow up and take it as it is, my view not yours.
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Sarge
"The rest of us are going to watch Obama crush McCain"
We'll see.
"Asked for how Americans should sacrifice"
Hey, we've BEEN sacrificing.
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Nippon5
also Tom is doing very well as a Mod but he faultered allowing follow ups on this last question
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coulrophobic
Senator Obama:
"A lot of you remember 9-11."
What an idiot.
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Sarge
"A lot of you remember 9/11"
But that was over 7 years ago. A lot people don't remember what happened yesterday. They're the ones who will vote for Obama.
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USAFdude
Unless they're military, Sarge. We remember all too well how Bush screwed up the opportunity to take down Osama bin Laden. We also know damn good and well that another Republican would just make the matter worse. That's why Obama will be our next C-in-C.
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rjd_jr
It is ultimately sad watching a clearly uncomfortable McCain valiantly attempting one last effort to breathe life into his campaign that is on life support. He has little energy, limping around as if he has some leg condition (not a great image for a man with questions surrounding his health), seems to have a lot of mind hiccups.
Obama is clearly light years ahead, alert, energetic, bright. This is the nail in the coffin for McCain's campaign.
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Betzee
As far as McCain is concerned, the most pressing problem in Washington is earmarks, which amount to USD 16 billion out of a USD 2 trillion federal budget.
Since the market plunged about USD 2 trillion in retirement savings has been lost. While I love my job, I wasn't planning to keel over in my cube.
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Nippon5
Obamas closing was actually very good except for his best place in the country gaffe. McCain closing was good also.
Final grade..
MCCain A- he repeated allot of the lies that they have stated over and over.But he talked to the people very well. He seemed strong on his subjects and his debating ability is very good.
Obama B he did good but he started with mudslinging right away, seemed to look into the camera more then the people, his stand was the same as it always is saying McCain is Bush and such...
Tom rocked I think I should of voted for him!!!!!!!
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yabits
Really? You don't hear McCain wheezing when he walks from one side of the floor to the other? He reminded me of Sony's Asimo, but without the grace.
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buddha4brains
Creapiest Moment was when McCain said that he knew how to take out bin Laden. So what is he waiting for? Oh yeah, to use bin Laden as a political tool just like Bush has done. Absolutely disgusting comment in an otherwise OK performance.
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yabits
Obama's best moment might have come when he shut down McCain's claim that McCain is a follower of Teddy Roosevelt's principle of "talk softly and carry a big stick." A lot of serious noise has come from that hot Irishman, and Obama reminded the audience of it convincingly.
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Nippon5
yabits at 11:40 AM JST - 8th October
Im not for McCain but he is doing a much better job then Obama.
Really? You don't hear McCain wheezing when he walks from one side of the floor to the other? He reminded me of Sony's Asimo, but without the grace.
(He seems in as good of health as most men of his age, his debating skills where very good and his ability to talk to the people was very good, what does anything you add have to do with his debating skill?? Grow up)
buddha4brains at 11:42 AM JST - 8th October
Creapiest Moment was when McCain said that he knew how to take out bin Laden. So what is he waiting for? Oh yeah, to use bin Laden as a political tool just like Bush has done. Absolutely disgusting comment in an otherwise OK performance.
Obama said that too hrmmm or did we forget?...
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buddha4brains
Nippon5, perhaps I did forget, but didn't he say that he would got after bin Laden? McCain said he knows how to get him - but he hasn't yet because he has an election to fight... so much for "country first".
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tclh
McCain nearly knocked out Obama on Pakistan/OBL issue.
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Nippon5
Im waiting for the transcript right now, They both made so many claims that cant happen that I lost track of them all.. I had it around 15 lies each by the end
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Nippon5
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/presidential.debate.transcript/index.html
transcript
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tkoind2
tclh. wishful thinking. The whole terror fear card doesn't play with people who have economic terror and fear of the economy to worry about. For Joe Average, or Sixpack to quote the pitbull, the world is home and work and Pakistan and OBL are far away concerns. Which Obama is offering to address with intelligent ideas.
McCain failed to shine today. So it will be that GOP desk job afterall.
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buddha4brains
Obama said: "We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority."
McCain said: "I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how to get him. I'll get him no matter what. And I know how to do it."
Obama stated his policy and determination. McCain said that he knows how to get bin Laden, but has not done anything yet. National security is not above politics for McCain, same as Bush.
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smithinjapan
sarge: "But that was over 7 years ago. A lot people don't remember what happened yesterday. They're the ones who will vote for Obama."
Wrong-o, sarge... it's the people that remember what happened yesterday, and has been happening for 8 years, that will vote Obama -- they want change! Not the 'change' Mr. 'I'm with bush on 95% of his issues' McCain promises (but refuses to say HOW he'll change things), I mean REAL change. In other words, they want the tired old policies of bush and the republicans out of office, and they are proving that with the double digit lead of Obama over McCain in a growing number of states.
Well, you of course are an exception to an otherwise cemented rule, but you've been on the wrong side of logic for years, and I don't expect YOU to change (even though you pretend to want it with Mr. Maverick's lies to do so).
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Sarge
JoeBigs: "Real tough talk before but nothing here"
If McCain had called Obama on some of his lies, you'd be screaming bloody murder.
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JoeBigs
No I would have waited for a reply. If you accuse someone of something as harsh as being in bed with terrorist them bring it to the man. But what did McBush do when the man was in front of him? Nothing.....Real sad statement n McBush`s character.....Loves to talk it to others but wont confront that person.....
No guts.....Talks it but will not walk it...
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Nippon5
Obama said:
And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we have to act and we will take them out. We will kill bin Laden; we will crush Al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority.
McCain Said in response to Obama; I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how to get him.
I'll get him no matter what and I know how to do it. But I'm not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Sen. Obama did. And I'm going to act responsibly, as I have acted responsibly throughout my military career and throughout my career in the United States Senate.
The theme was about attacking Pakistan in order to get OBL and AQ.....
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Sarge
Obama: "We will kill bin Laden"
What? Just killing him? Not capturing him and putting him on trial first, like with Saddam?
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Nippon5
Sadly the truth is we wont get OBL its hard to fins a needle in a haystack... And we cant even get local criminals in our own country, took us a year just to find a single man and plane that crashed in our own back yard.. We blew the chance to get him in the mid to late 90's and again in the early 2000's
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coulrophobic
Obama: "We will kill bin Laden"
Over Howard Dean's dead body you will.
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buddha4brains
Yes "The theme was about attacking Pakistan in order to get OBL and AQ....." and McCain says that he knows how to do it. But he is not going to do it now, it can wait.
Sorry, but I don't buy that after all these years of Bush ignoring OBL. If everyone has to pay with blood and treasure this war of terrorism, then damn it the politicians better start doing instead of talking. McCain has a plan, then he should use his bipartisan influence and squeeze Bush's balls until he signs off on going after OBL. Otherwise it is just talk to get votes.
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smithinjapan
MPNiea: "The U.S. is no longer a democracy, but a dictatorship run by a bunch of power-hungry and fascist Democrats"
You can thank bush for the way the country is now run, for he is in power (lame-duck, but still the figurehead), so saying 'it is run by...' directly refers to Bush and Co. Indirectly, however, all of the things you said apply to the current admin., and you dabble in the same 'shifting of blame' that you purport the Dems to be engaged in, only you add complete denial to the mix. Oh, and by the way, it's a 'universal health care plan', not a socialist one; the only socialist system is the one that exists now -- one that purports to be available to all, but is really only available to the rich, while the poor suffer. What's more, the private element of health care will never fully be eliminated from the US system; it will continue to be a bastion for the rich, while the poor will be able to finally have access for all the taxes they pay. It works in MANY other countries, and no one can fathom why the US is so moronic when it comes to 'treating' their own citizens in regards to health care. The system is ridiculous as it is.
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Farmboy
Actually, I thought the debate was reasonably civil, in spite of the jabs here and there. At least we got some idea of where the candidates stand. I did think the "I know how to get Osama Bin Laden" thing was a little over the top. Is he planning on parachuting in to take care of matters? We don't hear, but maybe he doesn't want to "telegraph" his attack.
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Everton2
coulrophobic
This system of decent health care being available to all works quite well in Australia. My father who lives in America had to come to Australia for an operation that would have sent him bankrupt in America. Please try and look beyond your rear end, the health care system is fundamentally broken in America. A sure sign of its inadequacy is when you have its citizens seeking to access health care abroad because they can't afford it in their own country.
Moderator: Readers, no more comparisons with other countries please. Focus your comments on the debate.
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Nippon5
84.7% of citizens have some form of health insurance; either through their employer (59.3%), purchased individually (8.9%), or provided by government programs (27.8%; there is some overlap in these figures
As far as health care cost, its not a problem to have a non goverment controlled health care system, its controlling the worthless lawsuits, over charges to insurance companies, the fraud to insurance companies, and a good over sight is needed in the industry to control prices of services ..
Also the amount of Uninsured Americans is closer to 45million and isnt over 50 million, this does include those who are not citizens of the US.
Moderator: Readers, please focus your comments on the debate. If you wish to discuss health care, then you should discuss the two candidates' views on the subject.
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tclh
McCain must be extra careful when he talks about Pakistan/OBL because he KNOWS about all the dangers, the risks ,the weights he (as US commander-in-chief) has to carry when dealing with a nuclear state like Pakistan. Obama just almost jumped into the conflict with Pakistan in order to get OBL. If anyone thinks Iraq is a mess now,Pakistan will be much much bigger mess if not handled correctly. And also when McCain said thanks to the serviceman who had the question about Israel/Iran/UN,he did so from the bottom of his heart ;while Obama did so from the top of his tongue.Or at least it appears to me that way.
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coulrophobic
The Drudge Report has Senator McCain the winner, about 65 - 32.
But it hardly matters. Two days of the mainstream media selectively ripping the thing apart and highlighting Senator Obama's favorable parts should have Obama back where they want him.
0
adaydream
John McCain had to grab the public.
Barack Obama only had to sustain a good debate.
John McCain didn't have the spectacular debate he needed.
Barack Obama hit the tone, the right answers and took the debate. < :-)
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coulrophobic
You can see now why Senator Obama ducked Senator McCain's challenge to ten old-fashioned townhall style debates. It would have been too easy for ordinary folks to expose Obama as the fraud he is. The major networks are too afraid of being labeled 'racist' to ever really challenge him and Obama knows this, if nothing else because his party's apparatchiks in the media, Hollywood and academia have delineated the boundaries for the culture war we are in and they have laid the mines ahead of time.
How I wish blogger Doug Ross could have submitted just one question, on behalf of America and the rest of the free world:
"Senator Obama, when you first ran for Congress in 2000 you claimed your central experience was the Chairmanship of the $165 million Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Yet now that central qualification is missing from your resume. Is that because it was an utter failure... or because you worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers for a half-dozen years?"
0
MrDickMorris
Good job from McCain.
i was independent before these dabates, now i , like all patriots is going to vote for McCain.]
The whole world now knows about Obama's terrorist activities, he cannot be elected.
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adaydream
John McCain didn't have what it took to ask about Bill Ayers tonight. John McCain really didn't do too much fighting at all. Oh, he swung those little fist a couple of times and even looked tough once I think, but John McCain isn't the right man for the job.
John wouldn't correct Barack at all on explaining John's $300Billion taxcuts for oil companies. So the tax cuts for oil companies is correct.
He didn't correct Barack when he said that John plans to tax our employee paid health insurance. So that must be correct, also.
John, the Maverick, wasn't there tonight. < :-)
0
Madverts
And the shriekfest continues...
(Yawn) roll on November...
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smithinjapan
McCain certainly did not do well in that debate. That isn't to say he was beaten hands down, but he NEEDED to win an outright victory here, and it wasn't even close to that. He lost, for sure, but not by any KO.
Anyway, to read more truths about McCain, read this article, very aptly named 'Make-Believe Maverick'. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/makebelievemavericktherealjohnmccain
The wickedest part of it is saying that though the two are nearly identical when comparing McCain and Bush, said comparison is actually unfair to the current president -- he's a better pilot! Hahaha!! A great read, and full of all sorts of interesting facts that the few remaining McBush supporters on here refuse to acknowledge and simply ignore when you bring up.
0
MarieDevine
One thing they agreed on is we have a difficult time ahead and it is important who gets into the presidency. Look for a great October surprise that will overturn the horrors of our past policies. prayers work. I thought both candidates did well, but I give the night to John McCain; but I still don't expect any present candidate to get the leadership position.
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Madverts
"Look for a great October surprise that will overturn the horrors of our past policies. prayers work."
Will Jesus be making a surprise run for US prez? ;) We already had him on the Bush ticket and it clearly hasn't helped...
0
SushiSake3
I think john mccain needs to be congratulated for giving an extremely wooden performance, punctuated by brief outbursts of sheer cluelessness and capped off by his stating of an idea to launch a $300 billion program for the federal government to buy up bad home mortgages - something Senator Obama has already suggested.
A snapshot CNN poll has given Barack Obama a clear victory over John McCain in the second US presidential debate.
The poll found Obama took the debate 54 per cent to 30 percent, winning a clear majority in debates on the economy, the financial crisis and to the question of which candidate 'expressed their views better'.
Sixty-eight per cent of respondents said McCain was the more negative debater.
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SushiSake3
john mccain is now well on his way to join all the other America-haters out there who are hellbent on wrecking the once great nation of America.
Great to see Senator Barack Obama is now the clear Vote of Patriots.
0
Sarge
I betcha the pollsters will say Obama won this debate.
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zurcronium
mccain came across again as a grumpy old man who is angry at the world, and ready to blow a fuse at any moment. He is primed for a stroke, way before the skin cancer will get him.
And enough of the earmarks. Of course its petty politics to have them but with 2 trillion evaporating in the last two weeks the earmark issue is just plain brain dead. Fact is mccain let the markets regulate themselves, like he did in the keating bank failure case, and now the taxpayers, as with keating before, have to clean up the mess and bail out the criminals that mccain protected, just like he protected keating.
Any way, the end will not come soon enough for the repubs. Already the landslide is showing up in the polls with obama winning florida, ohio, penn, iowa, north carolina maybe, virginia, nevada, and on and on. If the election were any later the repubs would only win utah and mississippi. Landslide coming boys. Happy days will be here again after the nightmare bush/mccain failures.
bush and mccain can start a business after they retire from public office, failures are us it can be called. Palin can be the office admin since her political career will soon be over too.
0
Madverts
sarge, they've already said that.
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skipthesong
I wonder how these two will work together, as eventually they will have to as neither is forced to give up their current seat as they vie for a higher one (although, one should be forced to resign his/her seat upon deciding to run for another office IMO)
First we had the war then we had how to end the war then we had markets threatened over the world now we have the financial crises.
When will politicians stay on one course and follow it?
For Zurcronium: "let the markets regulate themselves, like he did in the keating bank failure case, and now the taxpayers, as with keating before, have to clean up the mess and bail out the criminals that mccain protected, just like he protected keating." Like Obama being let off for Wright and Ayers, McCain has been let off and cleared from the Keating issue. I don't expect McCain nor Obama to fully understand economics as neither do. Which is why I would prefer for the government to stay out of Wall Street. We can't just keep adding regulation each and every time something goes wrong. Half the people want the government to be involved in our health care, and while there is much reason where they should, I am scared of that. But, as Obama looks like he will win, I can only shrug my shoulders on it. Japan comes to my mind in that regard, and I ain't too happy about Japan's health care now that I have a year old kid. Now, many want to government to be involved more than they already are and that is really really scary. If we let the government to stick their hands in this anymore than they already have, we are doomed.
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SushiSake3
This was McCain's big chance to close the eight point gap in the polls.
He clearly failed, as he will fail America should Americans ever be stupid enough to elect him.
Maybe he could get a job with Al Quaeda? mccain seems keen enough to want to help their cause by wanting to continue the Iraq war come hell or hight water - they would probably welcome him with open arms :-)
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smithinjapan
sarge: "I betcha the pollsters will say Obama won this debate."
Wow! What a prediction! Where do you get your mysterious powers?? It's kind of like walking into a first grade elementary school class and saying, "I bet a whole lot of you aren't seven years old!"
I am merely pointing out that YOU are pointing out the obvious, in particular because in my allegory most of the kids would NOT be seven, and in your allegory, since Obama DID win the debate, rest assured the majority of people know it. And don't go saying, "I told you so!" because again, you are only pointing out what is obvious, and again in particular because McCain got trampled on.
Zurcronium: Of course he came across that way... McCain is nothing but a college party brat who wants more power, and of COURSE he nearly blows a gasket when you point out something to him. Imagine this guy as president... he'd freak out and attack other nations for simple criticisms of his character or policies!! He's an old man who needs to retire and go to a home.
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Sarge
zurcronium - "mccain came across again as a grumpy old man angry at the world"
In your mind, he did.
madverts - I was right!
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Sarge
smith - Ya gotta admit, my prediction came true!
"McCain is nothing but a college party brat"
smith, not even your boy Obama says that.
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Sarge
Sushi - This was McCain's big chance to close the eight point gap in the polls"
The latest one had Obama up by three. He needs at least ten to win this election.
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tigris
This so called 'debate' was utterly boring. Without follow-up questions and the participants not permitted to address each other with direct questions, this hardly deserves to be called a debate. It is at best a public interview. Most of the answers were stock phrases we have heard since months or years - often ignoring the question or (changed) reality. A kind of verbal wallpaper, similar to the comments of Sarge and others on this board.
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SushiSake3
Sarge, it's only a matter of days now before you will be hit with the extremely uncomfortable truth that everything you have believed in politically and everyone you have trusted and thought capable in the GOP is worth nothing.
This financial bailout and global sharemarket collapse is the proof in the pudding that bush and of course mccain and their operatives have been - and still are - flat wrong.
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zurcronium
skipthesong,
I am amazed that you and others of the right make your comments about the evils of government when the government at this very moment is all that stands between the US economy and a massive depression. Wake up, bush and republicans are nationalizing the banks, the insurance companies, the lending industry, it is investing directly in the stock market and todays new is that the Fed is going to buy up debt directly and bypass the nationalized banks entirely. Again, they are doing this cause they have to save the economy and try to derail the freefall we are in right now, Japan stocks were down 10 percent today.
So get use to it. If you want your one year old to have a future you better pray every night that Obama and the federal government can bail us out of the mess bush and mccain and the repubs allowed to spread. It all started with Reagan in the 80s and accelerated during the republican revolution by gengrich in the 90s and then exploded under the incompetent bush.
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Sarge
Sushi - We'll see, won't we?
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Loki520
Your all forgetting the inevitable "October surprise". The results of the debate aren't going to matter for much longer. Someone's gonna roll out some sort of information that the MSM will be unable to hide, or that the candidates will be unable to refute satisfactorily without making their entire debate performance into a lie.
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Noripinhead
More of the same. Underdog McCain tried to stick in few jabs but they fell flat. Obama was surprisingly unremarkable. If only he had a bit more gravitas about him. The town hall format made it as dull as a doornail. On balance, no clear winner. So McCain loses. Time for Palin to pull more skeletons out of Obama's closet. You can bet on it.
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SushiSake3
Loki520 - the 'October Surprise' came early - in September.
Clearly the GOP's October Surprise is that john mccain picked such an unqualified loser in Sarah Palin.
That's a huge surprise! :-)
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SushiSake3
I thought one of the most ???? moments of this debate was when john mccain tried to attack Senator Obama for wanting to 'sit down and talk with terrorists.'
bush and his operatives have been trying not to talk with terrorists for years and look where it got them - Iran is now stronger than ever and North Korea is lobbing missiles into the ocean any time they want.
And to further underline how stupid mccain's position is - America has been talking with terrorist nations for years - Christopher Hill has been talking with the NKoreans and the bush administration is now engaging in talks with Iran. Maybe not the top guys but it hardly matters.
Heh, even the bush administration is distancing itself from john mcain
:-)
And really, just WHO is john mccain???
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SushiSake3
Admittedly, it was a pretty boring debate - from both candidates.
The Palin-Biden one in comparison, rocked!! :-)
And hte Saturday Night Live version was simply superb!
www.nbc.com/SaturdayNightLive/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/
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coulrophobic
Where was the great orator we have been promised?
The only thing remarkable about Senator Obama is how instinctively he dissembles and equivocates and how casually he lies.
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smithinjapan
sarge: "smith - Ya gotta admit, my prediction came true!"
Fine... you're 'prediction' was correct. I guess when the rest of your world is falling down around you you can have faith in that. Again, though, when the majority of Americans are for Obama, and Obama did better than McCain (though admittedly, not by much this time around), it's not really a prediction so much as it is pointing out a fact.
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YangYong
John McCain is a vain, sad, horrid little man with an empty intellect and an empty soul, and all of these characteristics were on full display this evening. It's time for this fake war hero to fade away nicely with his medals and his geritol, and leave the running of the country to competent people for a change.
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Noripinhead
Interesting fact I noticed watching the two candidates taking notes during the debate: both McCain and Obama are left-handed.
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Statistician
That McCain is just a loser. Who could trust him?
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coulrophobic
I miss Tim Russert.
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coulrophobic
"That McCain is just a loser. Who could trust him?"
Senator Obama's own choice for VP, among hundreds of others in Washington.
And there is also his former cellmate in Hanoi and now closest friend, Bud Day - the "most decorated service man since Gen. Douglas MacArthur."
Shall I continue?
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smithinjapan
coulophobic: You couldn't continue if you tried, really... aside from a tired list or old cronies and die hards who would vote for a dog so long as someone said the dog were Republican (granted, a dog might actually do better in office than Mc/Bush, but hey!). Oh, and of course, aside from the 'hundreds in Washington' kind of continue-if-you-try blanket mentions of support.
Anyway, your point is moot; the Dems have it.
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SezWho2
I thought the most interesting part of the debate was the follow-up after it, both on the floor and on the tube. I thought it was telling that Obama stayed and worked the room and McCain retired. Whatever Obama's actual feelings are, his post-debate performance projected energy, interest and concern. And even if that was just for show, as Kennedy showed Nixon, appearance matters.
In CNN's follow up on the tube, John King energetically gave the election to Obama--if the polling numbers on the economy hold up. I think at that time CNN's returns showed an over-20% differential between Obama and McCain on the economy. David Gergen, a former adviser to Nixon and Reagan, demurred. He said that Obama was black, that this issue had never been addressed and that voters would discount for it in the voting booth (shades of Sarge's 10% rule?). Kudos to Gergen. It was about time someone was honest about that. At least with Kennedy the bigots felt they didn't have to pull any punches in expressing their prejudices.
It also seems to me that the CNN poll was fairly representative--38% Democrat and 31% Republican, which CNN claims is close to the national average. The Democrat's big problem has always been getting their voters to vote. But after John McCain's unenergetic, lackluster and often rambling performance in a format which was supposed to be his strength (and might have been in a partisan crowd), I think this year's big problem for the Republicans is going to be how to stop the new, young registered voters from voting. They can't all be registered felons, too.
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Betzee
For me the lingering image is of an old man, clutching (not hugging) his wife afterwards. No doubt she had to guide him out after a rambling, unfocused town hall Q and A performance at the conclusion of which he had to be asked to move since he was blocking Tom Brokaw's view of the teleprompter.
It's difficult to speak ill of the elderly, and if McCain had run the campaign he had in 2000 I would feel sympathy. But because he reinvented himself "to win" I can only feel pity at watching him.
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sailwind
Then why did you do it?
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yabits
Betzee writes: "It's difficult to speak ill of the elderly, and if McCain had run the campaign he had in 2000 I would feel sympathy."
And to think that the Republicans rejected McCain in 2000 in favor of George W. Bush. It's obvious they were not putting "country first" back then.
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zurcronium
yes, betzee there was a twinge of the pathetic in mccain tonight. Again I think bush sucked the life out of him in 2000 and try as he might to win using the bush dirty politics now, he is just not up to being so vile and so despicable. In other words, he still has a slim morality in him although he has hidden it well for the last six months. Bush is amoral to the core and can lie without any remorse at all. Like Palin, an empty loser wrapped in fake born again piety. mccain cant pull it off, that is why he is so amped up and out of control. He needs to resign as soon as possible after the election loss before he has a stroke.
If he is really such a maverick, now that the election is conceded, he should dump palin for leiberman. He of course now regrets giving into the dark side of the republican party, the reptile rovians. If he did that he could redeem himself. Otherwise is all downhill for him from this point on. Palin will eat him up and spit him out like overripe pork bun.
But boys, its all over now. You can stick a fork in it. Now the rightwing wackos are going to start to look right past mccain and get ready for 2012 when they pick the next loser to run against the obama phenemenon.
The nightmare that is the reagan/gengrich/rove/bush hijacking of democracy and the american business culture is coming to an end. And not a moment too soon. Stick a fork in it, the republicans and mccain are over. Landslide coming and its not going to be pretty for the criminal party and their corrupt subprime money men.
THe USA is about to redeem itself after being lost for 28 years. Carter warned the country about what was coming and now Obama will have to clean up for the massive failures of republican incompetence, with its crowning glory in the bush juniors failed wars and now near worldwide depression.
Liberals rock!! We have been right about just about everything in the last 28 years and now the government will finally be ours. Happy days are here again. And the country and the world will be sane again. The adults are taking over.
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coulrophobic
"Liberals rock!! We have been right about just about everything in the last 28 years and now the government will finally be ours. "
zurcronum - I understand from other posters here that you are Canadian.
Do "liberals" rock up there?
Elections are this week?
Polls have Bush's poodle boy Stevie Harper set to win....
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DanManjt
Town hall Q & A over. So is McCain.
Polls: Obama won the Town-Hall Event. McCain needed to win; he did not. At best, he came in a close second.
Say goodnight, Johnny. It's President That One to you.
I'm lovin' it. Its a good day for America. A good day to be an American. Our long national nightmare is over. Some evidence for what I'm talking about: A recent email to the (Right WIng) National Review says...
*Well I have gone outside and pulled up my Mcain/Palin sign. This election is over. I will vote for Mcain but I know that come Nov. 5 Obama will be our president-elect.
I feel sorry for Sarah Palin. A once promising career will be permanently connected to the landside loss of John McCain.
I weep for my children and their families.*
Good. Its about time.
Their crummy spirit really is broken. Now's the time for America to press our advantage and crush their movement. Time to end for a generation their rape of our nation.
Our enemy is on the retreat. We will not let them get away and regroup. We will crush them. We will make more Republicans "weep". We will make them weep untill the cows come home.
We will take our country back.
Obama/Biden 08!
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DanManjt
Betzee
Because he " reinvented himself" I only feel contempt for him.
Because he is down, I only feel the need to break him so he and his party will never get back up.
Obama/Biden 08
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Sarge
Senator McCain made a mistake when he referred to Senator Obama as "That one." Obama is "The One."
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Sarge
DantheMan: "I only feel the need to break him ( McCain )"
Rotsa ruck! Ha ha ha!
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Sarge
Obama will be attempting to explain his relationships with a domestic terrorist and a hateful, rascist preacher in the final debate.
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yabits
DanManjit writes: "Because he is down, I only feel the need to break him so he and his party will never get back up."
Last night's debate was nowhere near the showing that John McCain needed. I understand where you are coming from, but I wonder if our country wouldn't be better off with a Republican Party that returned to values of Lincoln. But there can no longer be any doubt: the governing philosophy of people like Reagan and W. Bush has done serious damage to our nation and should be regarded as thoroughly discredited.
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Nessie
Well one things for sure: There can be only one.
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Simon_Foston
Old news. If that had ever done Obama any serious damage it would be Clinton vs McCain in the election next month.
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SezWho2
Sarge,
I really think that if McCain tries to make Ayers or Wright an issue, it will blow up in his face. Palin says that we haven't had enough discussion of it. Why do you suppose that is? She had a chance to bring that up with Biden and did not. McCain has had two chances and hasn't. In a debate format which limits time for any issue, Obama will be well-prepared to make McCain rue any attempt to make this an issue.
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adaydream
YEA!!!!! Barack Obama wins the 2008 presidential election.
Oh, little premature. :) :)
Get ready for a change!! < :-)
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Helter_Skelter
I am. I'm buying a gun.
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adaydream
Barack and Joe are for possession of fire arms. It's cool. < :-)
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DanManjt
Yabits
The Party of Lincoln died long ago. Long before Reagan, who, you are right, really started this whole mess.
American hero? Puh-lease.
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SushiSake3
Sarge - "Obama will be attempting to explain his relationships with a domestic terrorist and a hateful, rascist preacher in the final debate."
What - if anything - does that have to do with the issues concerning ordinary Americans today?
A: Nothing.
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Sarge
Sushi - You're wrong. Character still counts.
That being said, right now, it looks like Americans may actually have a brain fart big enough to make the colossal mistake of electing Barack Obama and Joe Biden over the far more sensible choice of John McCain and Sarah Palin.
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Sarge
zurcronium ( 4:41PM ) - Your post shows you know little of the causes of the crisis. Giving loans and mortgages to people who should never have received them is the causes, and the Democrats are more responsible for this than the Republicans. And if you think Obama is the solution, you are truly deluded.
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Everton2
The entire world is waiting for the ascendancy of Barack Obama. Never in the history of an election process has the World been so anxiously awaiting a leadership change in America. It underscores the impotency of the Republican party's foreign policy and their failure to connect with the rest of the world.
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SezWho2
Sarge,
Of course character counts. The problem is that these "issues" don't reveal anything of significance about Obama's character.
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Betzee
Sarge,
Have you heard anyone in the mortgage industry complain they were forced to make loans? On the contrary, you hear about how much pressure they were under from higher ups to sign up everyone with a pulse.
I dunno know about you, but I was a little surprised last night when John McCain flip-flopped and called for the government to bail-out, er rescue, homeowners facing foreclosure owing to mortgages they can no longer afford to pay.
While he's right, real estate prices won't stabilize until the rate of foreclosures is dramatically reduced, his plan fails to recognize the complexity of the mortgage business which made lending to anyone profitable. Specifically, those sub-prime mortgages were repackaged into something called "residential mortgage-backed securities" before being further chopped up into "collateralized debt obligations" that have been distributed widely within the ailing financial system. So, in effect, Uncle Sam would have to buy a majority share in these secularization pools which would be enormously expensive.
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Sarge
Sez - "these 'issues' don't reveal anything of significance about Obam's character"
How can you say that? That's just ignoring the issues.
Betzee - I don't agree with McCain's $300 billion bail-out plan. Real estate prices will stabilize when people who can't afford to buy homes and should rent, like me, do like me and rent until they're able to buy homes.
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Betzee
But that won't help us deal with the mess we're in now. Communities full of vacant homes go to seed quickly. In mine, a family of bobcats took up residence in one such house; it took an awful lot of wrangling to get them out of there since it wasn't clear whose responsibility it was to remove them. The local SPCA, for example, only deals with domestic pets, not wild animals.
So I can only imagine the problems with gaining title to a property which it not exclusively owned by one party, either the residents or a local bank. It will require quite a bit of litigation to get it disentangled from the secularization bundle into which is has been packaged and repackaged.
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Sarge
zurcronium - Why, with the faltering U.S. economy and 140,000 troops in Iraq, is the handsome, smooth-talking Obama only a few points ahead in the polls?
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goodDonkey
sarge
You call 11 percentage points a few? You used a Zogby poll that differs from every other poll by a wide margin. I have consistently used a variety of polls to show the progression of Obama. Show me one other poll that shows Obama only leading by 4 points. The 11% I quote is Gallup and they are at the very top of respected pollsters. I used them to admit they were even after Obama had the lead. I guess I deal with reality better even when it is not favorable to my interests.
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yabits
LOL!! Looks like someone was asleep in Washington while all this was going on. You betcha.
And I suppose it was the Democrats who took all that risky mortgage paper, blended it up into other securities, rated it as AAA, sold it and also sold unregulated credit swaps and derivatives against it. All while George W. Bush was touting home ownership for everyone as part of his "ownership society."
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yabits
Blaming the financial fiasco on the Democrats implies that there was absolutly no responsible leadership in Washington. You simply can't have it both ways.
But people do understand that the drive to deregulate and defang the watchdog agencies of government has been the Republican mantra for decades. It's pretty ludicrous to blame individual lenders when the problems were institutional in nature.
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coulrophobic
"Blaming the financial fiasco on the Democrats implies that there was absolutly no responsible leadership in Washington. You simply can't have it both ways."
Tell it to Bill Clinton - he blames the Democrats.
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yabits
Suuuure he does.
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coulrophobic
While Senator Barack Obama, the candidate with the largest amount of cash from the financial and securities lobbyists (and the runaway largest recipient of lobby money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, if adjusted for time in the Senate, 2nd if not... ) was running around the country and putting all blame for the subprime crisis on the Republicans, former President Clinton - the only two term prez the Democrats have gotten elected since WW2 - goes on ABC and basically blames his party for the financial crisis.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/bill-clinton-do.html
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Sarge
yabits - Bill Clinton told ABC's Chris Cuomo that Democrats for years have been "resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president to put some standards and tighten up a little in Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac."
Jordan fades back...
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Simon_Foston
Hrm. We've had eight years of a Republican Presidency and substantial periods with the Republicans in charge of both the House and the Senate (2003 - 2007). The Democrats might indeed have caused the financial crisis but the Republicans have had lots of time to do something about it and done absolutely nothing instead.
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yabits
Sarge - I saw the interview and, understanding plain and simple English, heard Mr. Clinton say, in effect, that the part of the blame that can be placed upon Democrats (in his view) was their resistance (while he was president) to tighten up the two lending orgs.
The actual quote: "Well, maybe everybody does that [plays politics] a little bit. I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Bill Clinton left office in January of 2001. George W. Bush had over SEVEN years working with a Republican Congress to manage what Bill Clinton failed to do. The American people are simply not as stump-stupid as would suit your tastes.
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yabits
Where does Bill Clinton completely absolve the Republicans of any responsibility for the current mess?
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Sarge
yabits - You're just sore that Bill Clinton refuses to put all the blame on the Republicans and puts at least part of the blame on the Democrats.
The more important question is, who is better able to deal with this, Obama or McCain? If you think the answer is Obama, who has his fingerprints all over this mess, you are mistaken.
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yabits
Sarge writes: "The more important question is, who is better able to deal with this, Obama or McCain?"
Simple: Tackling complex problems requires intelligence that is far above average. In the intelligence department, John McCain does not hold a candle to Barack Obama. That much is obvious.
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SezWho2
Sarge,
How can I say that these issues don't say anything about Obama's character? I think the main reason is that you have made no case that they do. This is not ignoring issues. This is simply demanding that you make a simple showing of how Obama's character is in any way problematic. Absent that showing there are no character issues.
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SezWho2
Sarge,
Clinton did not say that the Democrats resisted him for years. Listen again.
...and it's an air ball! Folks, Michael Jordan launched an air ball....
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SezWho2
coulrophobic,
Clinton did not blame the Democrats. Cuomo asked a specific question regarding the fairness of Pelosi's claim that it was all the Republican's fault and Clinton named an aspect in which he believed the Democrats could be faulted.
He went on to say that the biggest single factor was, in his opinion, the repeal of the uptick rule. That was not in the province of Congress. It was the province of the Securities and Exchange Commission--3 Republicans and 2 Democrats with a Republican chair. All members were appointed by...George W. Bush.
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