McCain, Obama camps fail to agree on joint town hall sessions
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0
adaydream
Oh, they'll get an agreemant in a few days. But let's hear how the Liberals can't stand up to John McCain in a townhall meeting.
Get Ready....go! < :-)
0
Sarge
"his ( Obama's ) plan to have wealthier people pay more to support social security"
Robin Hood.
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SezWho2
I'm not sure about that, Sarge. I think that might make him rather more like King John, who taxed the barons to float the state. But I suspect both analogies are faulty.
The cap on earnings for Social Security tax purposes does make some sense given the Social Security payout formula. However, it is not necessarily a given that $102,000 is the right number. All taxation is redistribution and the fundamental purpose of the redistribution is not to aid the immediate beneficiary of the redistribution but the society as a whole.
At least, that's the stated purpose under Reagonomics, trickle-down economics and tax breaks for the wealthy. Of course, if you believe that those tax breaks were designed to benefit the wealthy, then I can see why you believe that taxation of the rich is designed to help the poor instead of to strengthen the country.
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SezWho2
I think Obama would have been silly to campaign on McCain's terms, just as McCain apparently believed it was silly to campaign on Obama's.
For McCain to characterize Obama's response as "disappointing" is equivocal. I'm sure it is deeply disappointing--for McCain and those of his supporters who believe that 10 town hall meetings would help him secure victory. But it is not disappointing in the sense of depriving Americans of the opportunity to understand what kind of people the candidates are or where the candidates stand on issues.
In pushing the town hall format, McCain is gambling that he can present himself as more personable and more persuasive than Obama. Town hall meetings are a good idea--as is McCain's idea for question time in Congress. But they have not been the historical standard. That has been, for some years now, formal debate with the occasional town hall type discussion.
I think it would be good to change the standard, but I see no reason to do that in a manner that many believe will aid one candidate to the detriment of another. I would like to see Obama offer more town hall meetings and McCain settle for fewer while agreeing to the debates.
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SushiSake3
Sure McCain needs Obama to play by his terms because McCain knows he can't make a speech to save his life. In fact, many in the Republican party are hoping their man doesn't make speeches because he flubs his lines and turns many shades of red.
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skipthesong
Sure McCain needs Obama to play by his terms because McCain knows he can't make a speech to save his life." I agree. McCain isn't much better at speeches than Bush!
however, do you want to be sold by someone with a silver tongue or do you want the best product? Right now, we have traditionally been sold on the better salesman.
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SushiSake3
McCain is not the best product and never will be.
I would much rather be sold a partially effective politician with good ideas, rather than a dangerously efficient politician wirh the wrong ideas.
McCain appears to want more to the same failed strategy in Iraq, he - for some bizarre reason - cannot see the Walls of Jericho falling around the U.S. auto industry and has promised to help autoworkers out, the blatant pandering of his "gas tax holiday" spiel goes dirctly against his climate change proposals, and he voted against then for making Bush's tax cuts permanent.
McCain and his policies are all over the field. Even if I was a Republican, I'd be pretty disturbed about it.
Obama, on the other hand, does have a firmer grip on what he stands for.
Iraq war - get out in 16 months Energy - focus and build on renewables, support next generation biofuels Social Security - get it on a more firm footing Economy - reform bankruptcy laws, etc.
0
RomeoRamenII
Heh, looks like no teleprompter debates. Without a script in front of him and nothing new to offer the American voters, people listening to obama would have had to endure speeches laced with "uhhhh" and "ummm".
RR
0
Taka313
When I first read about the town hall debates, I was all for it. Even though they are Sen. McCain's preferred forum, I was confident that Sen. Obama could outdebate him. Of course, I was also under the impression that the town hall's would be a fair and partial debate, which turns out not to be the case. Sen. McCain's campaign ensured that the audience would be in his corner:
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=G9979CZ9vII&eurl=http://www.crooksandliars.com/
My bad for thinking the GOP could do something...ANYTHING, honestly. Lesson learned.
Taka
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RedMeatKoolAid
So many expatriates in Japan want so badly to vote in US elections. It's hard not laughing in their faces at times. Don't they have 'townhall' - type debates in democracies like Australia?
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Sarge
Hey, Taka, do you really favor Barack Obama over John McCain to be our next president?
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SushiSake3
Sarge - Obama's a good 6% ahead of McCain as we speak.
Are you and Romeo going to be in the minority and against your own countrymen yet again?
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SushiSake3
Sarge - "Hey, Taka, do you really favor Barack Obama over John McCain to be our next president?"
Unlike you, Taka genuinely wants what is best for America.
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Sarge
Sushi - Oh, I'm sure the polls have Obama ahead of McCain. We'll see who gets the most votes on Nov.4.
I'd really rather vote for someone else than either of these two, but between these two, I'm gonna have to go with McCain. Sure, I could just write in whoever I want, but that would be a wasted vote that could help Obama get elected.
"Are you and Romeo going to be in the minority"
What would you have us do? Vote with the majority just so we're not in the minority? What would that say about our principles?
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Sarge
Sushi - "Unlike you, Taka genuinely wants what is best for America."
That is really insulting. And I didn't ask you, I asked Taka.
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SushiSake3
What a vote for McCain tells us is that you have the wrong principles and that you don't see eye-to-eye with the majority of your own countrymen.
Talk about outcasts in your own land. Maybe that's why you chose not to live there? :-)
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SushiSake3
Funny thing is, one of the few things that the Republicans can dredge up from the depths to hit Obama with is that the Illinois senator didn't initially wear a lapel pin.
Or that the Republican Slime Machine claims Michelle Obama used the word 'whitey.'.
Like, that's huge. (eyes rolling)
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Taka313
Sushi, I think that it says a lot about the McCain campaign that McCain campaign, themselves, aren't comfortable enough in their message to America in a forum of their own choosing. The townhall meeting is already McCain's preferred way to get out his message but that wasn't advantage enough. They had to invite McCain supporters as well to ensure a home court advantage.
The point being: Their message isn't good enough to put Sen. McCain in the White House. They have to stack the deck.
Now, it could be argued that the don't HAVE to, but that it is simply their nature. Much like that scorpion who rode the frog's back across the flooding river. It's just their nature.
Taka
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skipthesong
McCain and his policies are all over the field. Even if I was a Republican, I'd be pretty disturbed about it." Hey, he is not really on their Christmas list.
I am willing to bet for the first time, an independent has a very high chance of stealing the election.
"Or that the Republican Slime Machine claims Michelle Obama used the word 'whitey.'. Like, that's huge. (eyes rolling)" Sushi, I don't know if you are some weakly wimp, but on behalf of my white father, I think it is a big issue when you have someone running to be your president, calling you a derogatory name, and then expect them to vote for you.
I can take you a few blocks from my house where a bunch of people will be calling you that as they are knocking your head in head,
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RomeoRamenII
Obama's a good 6% ahead of McCain as we speak.
obama should have enjoyed a double-digit bump in any poll after being selected by Lord Soros, the U.S. liberal media and the DNC. But he didn't.
Besides, democrats are good at winning polls. Republicans are good at winning presidential elections.
RR
0
RomeoRamenII
Fact remains that obama is representing a major U.S. political party. I still am waiting to hear from any global liberal what europeon nation has ever had a person of color be considered to lead a country.
We've moved beyond the race issue in America. Too bad the europeons cannot make the same claim.
RR
0
RedMeatKoolAid
Barack Obama can't even convince high-ranking Democrats that he is who he says he is. Why should Republicans vote for him?
Tennessee Democratic Party Executive Committee member Fred Hobbs tells The City newspaper in Nashville: "I don't exactly approve of a lot of the things he stands for — and I'm not sure we know enough about him. He's got some bad connections, and he may be terrorist connected for all I can tell. It sounds kind of like he may be."
You just knew Fox News would get ahold of that story - - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oA7noNiwkg
0
RomeoRamenII
obama can't just go to a town hall meeting and meet the people head on and answer their unfiltered questions. it scares the hell out of him.
obama is an empty suit who is good at reading speeches that are void of any substance from a teleprompter; but he can't answer a unrehearsed question without tripping all over himself
obama is a coward. He's afraid that the American people will see the real, unvarnished, indecisive, unknowing 'uh, ah, ahhhh' obama.
In other words: The real barack obama.
RR
0
smithinjapan
"Heh, looks like no teleprompter debates. Without a script in front of him and nothing new to offer the American voters, people listening to obama would have had to endure speeches laced with "uhhhh" and "ummm"."
You'Ve got to be joking, RR... Bush was the biggest gaffer, 'hhmmmm'er and 'huh'er the US ever spawned. He could debate with nothing short of a brick on his back, and he still sucked at it.
0
skipthesong
why don't McCain and Obama be bi partisen and have half the debates the way McCain wants them and the other half the way Obama wants them?
RR, I have to agree with smitty on his post..
0
Taka313
Smitty, I don't think it was the lack of teleprompters that bothered the Obama campaign as much as having to deal with a rigged audience. Also, why give Sen. McCain the free publicity when we can just eliminate the middle man and wait for joe lieberman to explain to us what Sen. McCain really meant.
Taka
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SezWho2
Actually Bush is mentioned in the last paragraph, but not with a specific relevance to debating.
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LIBERTAS
American Mainstream Media = L I A R S! No need to add anything else.
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RedMeatKoolAid
Would have been fun to watch Barack Obama try to play grown up.
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yabits
When the "product" is policy, being articulate is a sign of an intelligent and engaged mind. Such a mind will generally lead to the production of better policies than an inferior mind.
Most Americans should realize this after 8 years of George W. Bush.
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yabits
When you have to stack the deck in order to have a shot at winning, the game is over as far as I am concerned.
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yabits
What a laugh. The Democrats just finished a very intensive primary campaign, and a significant percentage of them have yet to come over from Hillary's side. Had the primary season produced an overwhelmingly clear winner, the bump would have certainly been there, especially since the vast majority of Americans can say that they were far better off before eight years of Republican debacle.
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RedMeatKoolAid
A real man, a real candidate would step up, 'rigged audience' or not. Hell, Bush faces one every day.His opponents, the MSM's big guns, openly admit most of their star reporters and broadcasters are left-leaning.
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yabits
As we can see here, the Republicans are masters at lying in the service of character assassination. Ask John McCain to recall the 2000 primary season, when the low-lifes were on him with every scurrilous lie just as they were on John Kerry's military service in 2004. Swift-boating has taken politics to a new low, and it will take decent people like Barack to help it out of the gutter where so many Republicans want to keep it.
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yabits
LOL!!! When was the last time Bush held an open news conference?
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RedMeatKoolAid
McCain is right here. It's not about the candidates' wants and wishes - or in Obama's case his handlers' fears - it's about what American voters want. Bring back the 'town hall' debates. A real man, an honest candidate would step up.
0
Taka313
Yabits, It's not in Sen. McCain's best interest to remember ANYTHING from the 2000 campaign. Most of his position in 2000 are opposite of his current ones. That sort of thing can get you labeled as cheap, beach foot-wear.
redmeat, Would step up to what? A cherry-picked audience? Keep swingin' away slugger. You may hit something yet.
Taka
0
Everton2
These town hall debates if and when they take place will be the perfect forum for the Illinois Senator. McCain will look every bit the man of the past that he is, bring it on!
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RedMeatKoolAid
Question: Why would a presidential candidate whose overweening narcissism led him to pen not one but two autobiographies before the age of 45 (though he has no accomplishments Americans would generally recognize as making him presidential caliber) be afraid to debate in a 'town hall' format? Answer: His handlers know it would dawn on ordinary Americans that without a script Barack Obama reminds us most not of previous presidents or candidates but of his own disgraced mentors and spiritual advisors, the Rev Jeremiah Wright and Fr Pfleger.
0
Sarge
"It's not in McCain's best inteest to remember ANYTHING from the 200 campaign. Most of his position(s) in 2000 are opposite of his current ones."
If that was true, the media would be all over it.
0
Sarge
"McCain will look every bit the man of the past that he is"
If there's a man of the past, it's Obama. His policies are virtually the same as the failed liberal policies from the 1960s.
0
SushiSake3
Sarge - "His policies are virtually the same as the failed liberal policies from the 1960s."
LOL! Obama will have his work cut out for him fixing the wreckage caused by the president you voted for. That will probably take at least 2 terms, if not more.
I just wish you had your country's best interests at heart.
I've yet to see it in the 5 years I've seen you posting here.
McCain IS the past - that's one of the things that frightens many Americans about the guy. He's into preserving Detroit, which is already admitting it's massive strategic blunders in producing SUVs. McCain stands for more failure in Iraq.
McCain would much rather spend $15-20 billion a month on Iraq rather than spend it on Americans.
His climate change policy will change to whatever he thinks the public wants, and he heralds his military service "5 years sitting in a POW camp" because that's about all he's got to holler about.
It's just hilarious that the same people who backed bush are now forced into a corner to back McCain because everyone they wanted to back got hammered out of the race?
Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel, but that's what Republicans have proven themselves to excel at.
0
SezWho2
RedMeatKoolAid,
Let me try to wrap my mind about this. A real man would refuse to talk to Iran's leader unless that leader first submitted to the real man's preconditions. Yet that same real man would willingly submit to the preconditions of his own domestic political opponent.
Hmmmmm.... This is puzzling. Anyway, most of the real people that I know respond with a counteroffer when presented with a offer they are unwilling to accept in regard to an issue of concern.
McCain offered. Obama countered. The ball's in McCain's court. He can hit it back or he can continue to be disappointed.
0
Sarge
sailwind - Thanks for the link. The following comment on that video is interesting:
"Obama doesn't dare show up for a townhall meeting with McCain because he wilts like a little girl scolded by her father whenever he steps even the tiniest bit outside an environment completely controlled by liberals."
0
Taka313
Sez, Couldn't agree more. I'm not sure what a "real man" is where redmeatkoolaid is from but where I grew up, real men didn't say, "c'mon you wussie, me and my friends are going to kick your ass."
Taka
0
Sarge
Hey, Taka, did you check out sailwind's YouTube link "McCain Handles Protesters; Pushes for Town Halls"? I know you love YouTube...
0
Taka313
Sail, Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, Sen. McCain said it would be just the two of them. He failed to mention that he would be inviting a bunch of his supporters to the debate.
-Shepard Smith - fox news
Just the two of them?
Taka
0
Sarge
Taka - "Sen. McCain said it would be just the two of them"
( sigh ) McCain means the debate is to be between him and Obama. Ron Paul and Ralph Nader aren't invited. It's understood that both sides are going to have their supporters at any debate.
0
SuperLib
Why don't we all just wait until the debates start, then form our opinions on how they performed?
0
yabits
Yes, it was wonderful to watch McCain displaying his ignorance -- and counting on more of the same from his Republican sycophants. Most laughable was his assertion that ordinary citizens can ask better questions than professional journalists. (Most citizens couldn't locate Iraq on a map.)
What McCain most fears is the follow-up question: Somebody taking what he's said, doing some analysis, and coming back with a question that shows he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. (And then, the diminutive Mr. McCain risks throwing one of his famous little temper tantrums.)
By the way, I'll bet dollars to donuts that "protester" was staged. McCain has not drawn protesters, and if you look at him, his reactions look extremely well-prepped -- as if on cue. The American people can't trust anything these Republican stage managers throw at us. Any dirty trick in the book is standard procedure for them.
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yabits
The bogusness of it all comes in the fact that the town hall meeting is the ONLY forum McCain wants to subject himself to. I'm all for town hall meetings -- but also for other formats as well.
Of course, we see Republicans trying to spin McCain's ineptitude as a positive virtue, as they spin everything else since the days of Lee Atwater.
0
yabits
What kind of person labels The Audacity of Hope as an "autobiography?" (Someone who doesn't read very much, obviously.) And, of course, if it isn't an autobiography, then the "narcissism" charge goes out the window too.
Had George W. Bush even read two autobiographies before he was 45?
0
SuperLib
George Bush has nothing to do with this thread. He's only a part of it in your imagination.
0
Everton2
What kind of person labels The Audacity of Hope as an "autobiography?" Definitely a Republican bent on distorting the facts
0
yabits
Regarding accomplishments for a person seeking the office of president, Bush did set the bar pretty low. I do sympathize, however. It would be better if Americans could completely get him out of our minds.
McCain's accomplishments were fully laid out for all to see by the supporters of Bush in the 2000 primaries.
0
SezWho2
SuperLib,
I think you're right that George Bush has nothing to do with this thread. However, in making that observation, you seem to skip over four sentences from two posts that do pertain to this thread and seize upon the one sentence that does not. At JT, an 80% relevancy rate is very near outstanding.
0
sailwind
Agreed,
Thank goodness for the elite college educated liberal arts majors to ask the real questions instead of from the great unwashed masses who couldn't ask an intelligent question if their lives depended on it.
Pretentious doesn't begin to describe that mindset which in my experience seems to the rule not the exception in Democratic party circles and which is why I have never warmed up to the democrats overall with just a few exceptions.
0
yabits
sailwind writes:
The average citizen can ask intelligent questions on a topic that they've taken an interest in and researched. The conceit coming from you is that such specialized research is not necessary -- that any ordinary person is on equal footing with someone who has done his or her homework.
It is fortunate for the United States that the Democrats are not interested in advancing incompetence and mediocrity, as the Republicans have been doing for several decades now. If "pretentious" is the label we have to carry for preventing another disaster like the current White House occupant, then so be it.
0
RedMeatKoolAid
Recent video of Barack Obama at a rally and brandishing a large walking stick he is given as a present. His fawning admirers are immediately informed he's gonna 'whup' some people in Congress if he doesn't get his way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-bMNLwHX8
0
sailwind
Obama is going to have a problem I believe getting the senior vote overall. McCain has been appealing to that portion of the electorate for awhile now has as one should say a natural advantage over Obama that he is using pretty effectively to appeal to older crowd. Now if he would display a little humor and poke fun at himself once in awhile to try an appeal to the younger naturally inclined Obama supporters he might make some real headway in the campaign.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8iVgviw9w
0
SezWho2
sailwind,
People have every right to vote according to their prejudices. It doesn't advance the cause of democracy much if they do, but they have every right to do so. It does not follow, however, that the general population is best qualified to ask the questions which the candidates must answer.
In the town hall format, questioning does not usually follow any particular plan. With peer pressure, with the basic prejudice which everyone brings (liberal arts major or not) and with a multiplicity of voices, certain questions, once broached, are more likely to lead us away from helpful information than toward it. I would cite these message boards as an example.
Furthermore, what is it with this spurious attack on liberal arts majors? Liberal arts majors are exactly those college graduates which are most likely to be in need of economic assistance. I daresay you'll find many of the new ones clerking at Books-A-Million or working some anonymous and thankless job elsewhere. And I suspect that it is the people you refer to as "the unwashed masses" who do not bother to vote or to show up for town hall meetings.
Also, I'm not sure about McCain getting the senior vote. I think that, if seniors are really honest with themselves, they will take note of how many good days and how many bad days they have. They will look at their medicine cabinets and sigh. They will remember how much their children have tried to teach them about the new technologies and they will note that they have forgotten what they were taught. They will note how much longer it takes them write a letter or even sign their names and how often they search for the word they think they want. And, if they are honest, they will question whether or not they really want someone their age trying to be sharp 24/7.
You don't have to support Democrats. I wish, though, that you would stop making stuff up about them. If you have only met pretentious Democrats you can't have met too many.
0
DanManjt
Furthermore, what is it with this spurious attack on liberal arts majors?
Its the old Ad hominem red herring.
0
DanManjt
DanMan's Weekend Election Roundup
If the election where today:
www.electoral-vote.com has Obama increasing his lead in the Electoral College. Last week it was Obama's 287 to McCain's 227, with 24 tied. This week its Obama's 304 to McCain's 221, with 13 tied. While Indiana moved more towards McCain, one of the "battle ground" states MI flipped to Obama, along with her 17 electoral votes (EVs). NC also edged closer towards toss up, which the Obama campaign hopes to make a battle ground state.
The PBS Newshour -- www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2008/primaries/states/ -- is nearly unchanged from last week, with McCain still leading with 227 sure or likely EVs (232) to Obama's 200 (200), with the remained up for grabs.
Last week Real Clear -- www.realclearpolitics.com/ -- had Obama leading by 38 electoral votes. This week Obama increased his lead by 10 EVs (238 Obama/ 190 Mc / 110 Tossup) If the Election where held today, Obama would win by a sqeecker 272 to 266. In the popular vote, Obama leads McCain + 3.8 (46.2 to 42.3)
And finally Rasmussen -- www.rasmussenreports.com -- last time had McCain slightly eading in popular vote for months, tied with Obama for the past two weeks. Now, Rasmussen for Sunday shows Barack Obama attracting 46% of the vote while John McCain earns 39%. When “leaners” are included, Obama holds a six-point advantage, 49% to 43%. This is the eighth straight day that Obama has enjoyed a lead of five-to-seven points.
Electoral college breakdown goes Democrats 185 Republicans 174 Leaners 141. With Toss-Up 38 With Leaners its 260 to 240 for Obama, with 38 toss up.
This is unchanged from last week.
Conclusion: these data show a slight upswing for Obama, but its way to early for any meaningful forecasts. We've got a lot of time between now and November.
0
Everton2
These Town Hall meetings may very well be the undoing of McCain. He claims that this is the forum in which he performs best, but what i have witnessed so far contradicts that notion, unless you regard lifeless, monotone, uninspiring, purely timed punch lines as great. If Obama can perform and I am sure he will McCain will come off looking ridiculous beaten in the forum that he claims he has ownership to. Be careful what you asked for you may just get it!
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