McCain, Obama mudslinging grips campaign
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0
Sarge
At a campaign rally in North Carolina, Obama made fun of the way Sarah Palin speaks: "We're not going to let John McCain distract us. We're not going to let him hoodwink ya, and bamboozle ya, we're not going to let him run the okey-dokey on ya."
Obama would make a good late-nite TV host, but he would make a very bad president.
"The Senate ethics committee investigated the five senators' relationshios with Keating. It cited McCain for a lesser role than the others"
The others being Democrats.
0
memyselfI
Republicans my Republicans, it's time to join the other side. It's time to vote Obama. Sorry , Sarge !!!! It's time. They (McCain/Plain) are out of touch and out of time.
0
Betzee
No need to get defensive, Sarge, just a spoof thang.
While I understand the need to hit back, there's no need for Obama to go the tit-for-tat route here. On the very day Sarah Palin laments insufficient attention has been paid to Reverend Wright, who volunteered for military service during the Vietnam War, and the "terrible things he said about our great country," the Dow falls below the 10,000 mark for the first time in four years and our national debt climbs above the 10 trillion mark, having nearly doubled over the past eight years.
How will these developments affect our great country? Well, according to the WSJ op-ed page: "In the years to come, [the U.S.] will remain a vital center, but not the center...[We are] not yet in the position of Great Britain, and our creditors in China are not yet as we were then. But absent a more humble and realistic attitude toward capital in Washington, that is the path we're headed down."
In other words, forget about "change we can believe in" and replace it with "change before it is too late."
0
memyselfI
McCain has 8 houses and is a very rich man. He is a war veteran like John Kerry, an honorable man but not a good leader. He's out of touch. Palin should be a talk show host and McCain can be the producer.
0
USNinJapan2
Obama complaining about more substance. That's rich.
0
Nippon5
We could have the Palin/Obama tonight show, they both are more suited to that type of work...
0
Sarge
memyself - "It's time to vote Obama"
Sorry, memyself, I've already voted for McCain.
Betzee: "Reverend Wright, who volunteered for military service during the Vietnam War"
Leave it to Betzee to defend that rascist Reverend Wright.
0
Betzee
I'm simply pointing out people are not black and white (pardon the bad pun) and that in demonizing the guy, you are forced to leave out parts of his life. Moreover, I question how a man who volunteered to serve during war time, dropping out of college to do so no less, could hate his country? If you have any substantive response, I'd be happy to read it.
I also question whether he represents the greater threat to America, or the path we've gone down over the past eight years? Actually, I don't question it; I think it's clear where I stand.
0
cleo
reporters weren’t permitted to talk to the audience, the St. Petersburg Times reported. When reporters tried to leave the designated press area and head to where the crowd was seated, an escort would dart out and turn the person around
Surprised none of the 'they hate us for our freedoms' crowd haven't picked up on this attempt to stop people hating.
0
Nippon5
I also question whether he represents the greater threat to America, or the path we've gone down over the past eight years? Actually, I don't question it; I think it's clear where I stand.
Strange it seems that Obama,Biden,McCain all had a part in the last 8 years too... Go figure we are going to vote in one of these groups and they all had a hand in this game.
0
yabits
Anyone who is familiar with the Bible can find countless examples of prophets who were sent to condemn the sins of the nation and community they were part of. (Which is why so many of them fell prey to the self-righteous.)
Reverend Wright not only served his country in a time of war, he became a man of the cloth to minister to a congregation -- a noble calling. As a white person, I have never detected, and no one has ever shown me, one iota of racial hatred coming from the man. I've been around long enough to recall when racist whites were saying that Martin Luther King, Jr. was a dangerous man.
The McCain campaign is so desperate that, rather than talk about their plans to get our nation back to economic health, they want to talk about the church the other guy went to. This kind of smear tactic might work well during elections where conditions are fairly normal, but the approach indicates gross stupidity this year.
I believe that what these haters fear most is that Barack Obama will become a successful and popular president. Imagine that: Hating a person called to the ministry who served his nation, and hating the very idea that another person might become a successful president, unlike the current one.
0
Betzee
Yeah, and you can include Maxine Waters and Barney Frank and all the rest of the usual Democrat suspects. Yet the Republicans controlled all three branches of government for six of the past eight years, and the House was under the tyrannical leadership of Tom DeLay (who left office under a cloud of financial improprieties).
In 2001 GWB assured the American public his tax cuts were affordable, but that has not proven to be the case, and we will be playing the price for a loooong time.
0
SezWho2
Sarge,
"The others being Democrats" represents McCains ability to "reach across the aisle" and into the pockets of American savers.
But all Saturday Night Live stuff aside, I don't think you have said why you think that Obama would make a bad president or how that comment relates to his take on Palin's way of speaking.
All politicians play to crowds and Palin's way is to go all populist while avoiding substance. Obama's within bounds to call attention to that.
0
yabits
To Nippon5, who claims that "they all had a hand in this game":
Some Democrats may have had a hand in it, but the push to deregulate is deeply ingrained in the Republican philosophy. And when your philosophy has been proven as bankrupt, it is time to adopt other principles.
0
SezWho2
Palin says that she doesn't know why the association between Obama and Wright (and presumably between Obama and Ayers) isn't discussed mores. If it were discussion she wanted, she would discuss this with Obama, with Wright, with Ayers. (Like McCain when he was a sub-committee chairman, she would convene an investigation, you betcha.)
But she doesn't want discussion. She wants aspersion. And what better way to get it than to harangue partisan gatherings where even the people in the crowds are kept away from the press.
What can be said of a party that fears the press? The party says the press is biased. That's true. The New York Times has a bias. The Wall Street Journal has a bias. They don't have the same biases--ditto CNN and FOXNews. Nonetheless, Palin's party fears the press.
0
Betzee
Yabits,
I discovered Reverend Wright and I hail from the same town. He was one of a handful of black students, called Negroes in that day, to attend Central High School in the 1950s. This is Philadelphia's academic high school which accepts students on the basis of test scores/grades. It has many alums who've gone on to do great things, being a graduate of Central means something.
My hometown also claims the neighborhood with the highest number of casualties in Vietnam. Not surprisingly, it's a black neighborhood but not the one Jeremiah Wright grew up in. He wasn't drafted, he volunteered and that's something airbrushed out of his bio by posters like Sarge.
0
adaydream
Palin just got into the game. It's all been discussed and dicussed and regurgitated. John McCain just wants to deflect the attention off the facts and give his new attack dog something to feed the meager crowds that are now attending the McCain/Palin events.
Obama is just now starting to sling mud back and what I've seen is pretty earthshattering. More about John McCain than I wanted to know. How he hid the POW Files in the Pentagon never to be opened. Protects his side of the stories told about him while he was a POW. I still believe that he was a wounded POW and deserves that, but he's getting tarnished. < :-)
0
yabits
Betzee,
Thanks for sharing that bit of history. Reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X had a profound affect on me back in the late 60s, and from that day I refuse to accept what any white hater has to say about non-whites.
0
yabits
Heard on Real Time:
John McCain is such a maverick, he just might vote for Barack Obama.
0
Nippon5
yabits at 11:14 AM JST - 7th October
To Nippon5, who claims that "they all had a hand in this game":
Some Democrats may have had a hand in it, but the push to deregulate is deeply ingrained in the Republican philosophy. And when your philosophy has been proven as bankrupt, it is time to adopt other principles.
That is a true statement until you talk about the dereg, that was a Clinton thing for the banks... It pasted in 1999... But yes Extreme reps want dereg, Extreme Dems want to have the goverment do everything.. But it took a congress to pass the vote and if you check it was a majority from both sides that agreed to these votes...
We need serious change as a country, we need to do the most basic of things... Learn to live in our budget... Learn to stay out of the worlds problems... quit wasting money on pushing lies and misspoken truths to gain a position in the political world. We need a complete change of the guard, but neither of these two are the complete change.... So we vote for the better of two evils, and that isnt change thats accepting what we can get..
Im hoping before my oldest goes to the states for school that the states is on track, thats only 6 years from now, and I dont think its going to happen unless we get a good candidate in 2012...... Hopefully the congress gets washed out and we get some new shirts in there too.
0
Betzee
Yabits,
The Dow has dropped 1500 points over the past month and the federal government has undertaken an unprecedented bail-out of Wall Street which may not stop the hemorrhaging. Yet all John McCain and Sarah Palin can do is cast aspersions about people Barack Obama has interacted with (to varying degrees) over the past two decades. Simply put, they are out of ideas and the voters know it.
The 1980 election between Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter was quite tight until less than a month before the election. We may see a repeat of that in 2008.
0
coulrophobic
McCain responds:
"I don't need lessons about telling the truth to American people. And were I ever to need any improvement in that regard, I probably wouldn't seek advice from a Chicago politician."
Ouch.
Betcha he gets called racist for that as well...
0
Betzee
Anyone who knows the history of Chicago politics is aware "the Daley Machine" was white, like Boston it's an Irish town. But McCain is probably banking on voter ignorance.
0
Betzee
Self-righteousness is never an attractive quality and yet McCain seems to exude little else in the waning days of this campaign.
0
goodDonkey
He started it.
0
skipthesong
I don't know why everyone is going berserk over this mudslinging. Has there ever been a campaign where things went nicely?
Besides, everyone has decided who they are going to go for, none of these allegations or bringing things up from the past are going to affect voters decisions. It does however go to show you that current US politicians are pigs, I waiting to hear the best momma joke from either of them.
The Autobiography of Malcolm X had a profound affect on me back in the late 60s," You were old enough to read in the 60's? " and from that day I refuse to accept what any white hater has to say about non-whites." What about non-white haters who have something to say about whites?
0
coulrophobic
"Anyone who knows the history of Chicago politics is aware "the Daley Machine" was white, like Boston it's an Irish town."
What a coincidence. I was just reading the other day (IBD) how Saul Alinsky's son, who grew up in Chicago, now resides in Boston. He had written a letter to a local paper congratulating Senator Obama for the masterful campaign he ran;Obama, he felt, had his father's techniques down cold, the attention to detail, the timing of choral responses and the packaging of the candidate at the Democratic convention were particularly impressive.
Only one thing bothered Alinsky's son and that was Senator Obama's refusal after all these years to credit or even acknowledge Saul "The Red" Alinsky's influence on him and his fellow travelers among the "community organizing" crowd of hardcore Leftists who are posing as agents of "change," "post-racial," and "above partisan politics."
0
Betzee
Yeah, and war hero John McCain failed to pay sufficient homage to the Vietnamese farmer who fished him out of the lake.
These are topics that fall in the realm of "argument without end." But none of it really matters against the backdrop of a tanking economy.
0
goodDonkey
sarge said:
/
However sarge, no Democrat involved in the Savings and Loan debacle is running for President; McCain is. The difference in the value of the mud being slung is that Obama knew a guy with a bad reputation and McCain had dealings with his bad associate. The worse you can lay on Obama is guilt by association. The worst you can lay on McCain is influence peddling with his association.
It is just like the case where McCain was trying to hook Obama up with Fannie/Freddie. Obama knew a guy and McCain had a Campaign Mananger who was being paid $15,000 per month by Freddie Mac, for "consulting." Mr. Davis’s never did much substantive work for the company in return for the money; he had been kept on the payroll because of his close ties to Mr. McCain, according to two people with direct knowledge of the arrangement. Once again McCain with ties to influence peddling. Davis was getting this money while running McCain's campaign and in fact until Fannie/Freddie was taken over by the government.
0
SezWho2
Nessie (wherever you are),
Now I think it's safe to talk about witchcraft--unless of course the text of the article changes, as sometimes seems to happen.
I'm not sure what Palin meant when she said that whether or not to talk about Wright would be McCain's call. Did she mean that McCain has changed his mind about not talking about Wright? Did she mean that she didn't know that McCain had said not to talk about Wright? Or did she mean that it was McCain's call but that she was going to do things her way, to seek forgiveness rather than ask for permission. If either of the latter two, McCain/Palin seems to be a dysfunctional leadership team.
In any event, I don't think Palin is a person who should be spearheading criticism on this account. Alaska has about 5% black population, far below the national average. Not only that, it's a new state that was exempt from the issues of slavery which have concerned most of the rest of the country. I wonder how attuned Palin could possibly be to black experience and to the nuance of what Wright has been saying. I think it likely that she needs an education before she has a discussion. If Obama is to be criticized for his association with Wright, that criticism should be led by responsible black critics, if the Republicans can find any.
0
goodDonkey
I think we can see the effect of McCain's dirty tricks.
The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll out Monday
Fifty-three percent of likely voters questioned in the poll say they are backing Obama for president, with 45 percent supporting McCain. That would be 8 points for the Republicans who learned Bush's fuzzy math.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/06/poll.of.polls/
Gallup Daily (latest): Obama Leads 50% to 42% That is another poll reporting 8% advantage to Obama.
But the real kicker is on Rove.com and he has confirmed it is his website and he has confirmed that he has Obama winning the electoral college at this time. Obama, 273 electoral votes to McCain’s 163; according to Karl Rove. The map could not be more beautiful on any other website!!!!
http://rove.com/election
0
Nessie
Oooh, the gloves are off! He said the P-word. Gotta love him, McCain, that Arizona politician.
0
coulrophobic
"Alaska has about 5% black population, far below the national average. Not only that, it's a new state that was exempt from the issues of slavery which have concerned most of the rest of the country."
Most of the rest of the country?
What country? Not The United States.
0
Nessie
I don't see it as such an important nuance, Sez. From a tactical point of view, maybe she shouldn't be the one to talk. But from an ethical point of view, one's experience or non-experience in the slavery discussion is beside the point. The bottom line: Wright is toxic. Obama's presence in Wright's congregation does Obama no credit. (Unlike Sarge, I'm able to admit a downside to a candidate. I do hope Sarge has his rapture insurance in order.)
But I do think it's different for Palin to be up on stage with a witch doctor in what amounts to a political endorsement -- as wacky an endorsement as it may be. It violates the idea of rationality and the separation of church and state, two doctrines that true conservatives respect -- which just shows so out of touch the current "conservative" crop is with true conservatism.
0
coulrophobic
"But I do think it's different for Palin to be up on stage with a witch doctor in what amounts to a political endorsement -- as wacky an endorsement as it may be. It violates the idea of rationality and the separation of church and state, two doctrines that true conservatives respect -- which just shows so out of touch the current "conservative" crop is with true conservatism."
Are you some kind of racist? The supposed witch doctor was 'black', and visiting from Africa - from Kenya it turns out.
Obama is a comitted follower of and has taught throughout the country the methods of Saul Alinsky.
Alinsky's work was codified and published in a book he called Rules For Radicals.
The original version was dedicated "to Lucifer".
“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer“
Interesting choice of inspiration for one so revered by the Secular Left.
0
SezWho2
coulrophobic,
What are you talking about?
There were 33 states in the US when the Civil War broke out and one of the big issues that caused the war was the national disagreement over whether new states had to be matched with a slave state and a free state. The issue of slavery concerned all of those 33 states and it informed the experience of both whites and non-whites who lived in them. Additionally it informed the experience of other states such as West Virginia and Kansas who were admitted during the Civil War and possibly of other states which were admitted later.
Additionally at the current time the population center of the US, although it has now moved west of the Mississippi, is squarely within one of the so called border states (Missouri), home of the Dred Scott decision and to this date a racially uneasy state--at least in the opinion of this former St. Louisan. The majority of the US population still lives within those states that were critically concerned with slavery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeancenterofU.S.population
0
coulrophobic
SezWho -
Palin is originally from Idaho.
McCain, as we all know by now, was born in Panama City and makes Arizona his home.
Barack Obama, according to most sources, was born in Hawaii.
I doubt anyone really cares about Senator Biden. He got less than 1 percent of primary vote. Delaware is almost 1/300th the size of Alaska.
"I wonder how attuned Palin could possibly be to black experience and to the nuance of what Wright has been saying."
No nuance needed, nor is any degree of "attunement" to the "black experience" necessary either.
Wright is a racist.
They come in all differnet colors.
0
SezWho2
Nessie,
I think Palin's experience with slavery or non-slavery is beside the point. However, I don't think her experience or non-experience of black culture is beside the point.
Additionally, I don't think I would say that Wright is toxic. But that's just me. I wouldn't say that about Ahmadinejad or about Bush. I don't find Wright any less offensive than Jerry Falwell and I wouldn't say that of him.
What I say is that no white person who has no significant experience of attendance at a black church should pretend to know who Wright is and what his calling is. I think Wright is a man on a mission, a man whho himself recognized was not at the peak of his powers, a man out of his depth in the national arena, and a man who painted himself into a corner and didn't know how to get out of it. I think the contents of Wright's sermons, the contents that I have seen, were basically unobjectionable except to people that I would consider to be overly-sensitive. His remarks to the media were a different story.
I don't mind faulting Obama. However, I fault him for resigning from his church under political pressure, for beginning to wear a flag-pin on his lapel under pressure and for backing off his principled stand on off-shore drilling under pressure.
0
Sarge
I'm looking foward to seeing Sarah Palin age in office.
0
chibaman
Have you got everything all ready to move up to Alaska?
0
goodDonkey
sarge said:
You will have to go to Juneau, Alaska to see that sarge. She may not even last as governor.
0
SezWho2
coulrophobic,
Idaho. Admitted to the Union in 1890. Less than 1% black population.
Yes, McCain and Obama are from where you say. I don't know why you think no one cares about Biden. If the criteria about state size and personal primary election popularity matters, Delaware is larger than Alaska by population and far larger by population density. Also Palin got about a what, 0%, primary vote?
What's your point?
Wright is a racist? Well, they do come in all colors and I'm certainly willing to entertain that as a possibility, even as a probability. But I have to ask you whether you know that or whether you just believe that. Furthermore, I daresay that you will find that most of us are racists when you push the proper buttons.
0
goodDonkey
SezWho2
If you don't think that Jerry Falwell is toxic then you don't know much about the embalming process.
0
Sarge
chibaman / goodDonkey - We'll see, won't we?
"She may not even last as governor."
Yes, her vice presidential duties will keep her away from the Governor's desk.
0
chibaman
Is that a threat?
Sarge, you simple, simple man, if you can't read the writing on the wall you really should get a pair of those Japanese-designed Palin glasses and step out of your fantastic bubble and into the reality of a Democrat stronghold ready to do the job properly. Republican farce is nearly at an end. Don't cry Sarge. Don't cry.
0
Sarge
"Is that a threat?
No, but Sarah Palin is a real threat to the Democrats' hopes of winning the White House.
"A Democratic stronghold ready to do the job properly"
The Democrats don't have a very good track record on managing the government properly - check it out.
0
dennis0bauer
If Mcain wins he will continue the path of making america a third world country which bush started.
0
Nessie
No, I'm some kind of rationalist, Coul. Whoever talks about casting out witches is a witch doctor. I don't care what color you are, witchhunts are wrong:
http://www.alternet.org/election08/99118/sarahpalinlinkedherelectoralsuccesstoprayerofkenyanwitch_hunter/
Maybe witch doctoring is Palin's contribution to the healthcare debate.
Just wondering what your stance on witchcraft is, Coul. Pro, or neocon?
0
Nessie
I'm assuming your comment was not ironic, Coul. I apologize if it was ironic.
0
Sarge
"If Mcain wins he will continue the path of making america a third world country which bush started"
Truly delusional.
0
chibaman
Sarge do you ever get anything right? Put on those glasses and read what's on the wall.
Thanks McCain, you've done it again, gift to the Democrat masters in the form of not only a joke of a politician, but yes, a joke of a person.
0
Noripinhead
Another telling factor is that Obama replied to the negative charges about his supposed "association" with Ayres directly--he did not use Biden as a shield. This makes McCain look bad in my book, sending out the attack dog and trying to stay above the muck. And that tactic has clearly backfired. The McCain campaign camp is in trouble all right. The Keating stuff is old news of course--an ace up Team Obama's sleeve that was to be used just in case Team McCain went negative (and they did). Time to get back to the issues.
0
SezWho2
goodDonkey,
If you mean that I would better have chosen a living example, I think you have a good point. Now, do you have a substantive one?
0
chibaman
If only there was a time machine and you could go back to before the VP nomination, this would be one name you'd be hearing much less of.
But it's here now, and regretting every morning when you wake up and every night when you go to sleep, that choice for VP is just not going to change, and it's all over.
Just look at it. Sarah Palin. Now look at this. Vice President Sarah Palin. That would be just about enough to renounce citizenships and spend the rest of your days vomiting in some dark corner.
0
Madverts
"That would be just about enough to renounce citizenships and spend the rest of your days vomiting in some dark corner."
Hey, that's something that is going probably going to happen to many of the die-hard McCain crowd. Even a new handle on JT won't stop it...
Christ, our American cousin's elections have become a farce.
0
Sarge
chibaman - "Vice President Sarah Palin. That would be just about enough to renounce citizenships and spend the rest of your days vomiting in some dark corner."
Wow, this thread is really going downhill...
0
SushiSake3
Sarge, check it out. No amount of mudslinging and lies pouring out of john mccain's campaign is oging to save him.
**It's Over: Why Bill Ayers Won't Save John McCain **
Perpetually fretting Democrats will not want to accept it. The campaigns themselves can't afford to believe it. Many journalists know it but can't say it. And there will certainly be some twists and turns along the way. But take it to a well capitalized bank: Bill Ayers isn't going to save John McCain. The race is over.
John McCain's candidacy is as much a casualty of Wall Street as Lehman or Merrill. Like those once vibrant institutions, McCain's collapse was stunning and quick. One minute you are a well-respected brand. The next you are yelling at the messengers of your demise as all around you the numbers start blinking red and stop adding up.
McCain's road was difficult to begin with: the President of his party has had record-low approval ratings for two years and the number of Americans who say the country is heading in the wrong direction is stratospheric. He also had the misfortune to be pitted against an exceptional candidate running an extremely well-executed campaign.
Source: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_flack/archive/2008/10/05/it-s-over.aspx
0
smithinjapan
Sarge: "I'm looking forward to seeing Palin age in office/Yes, her vice presidential duties will keep her away from the Governor's desk."
Wow, sarge, you flip-flop faster than even bush does! Not as quickly as 'I concede defeat in Michigan/no I don't! I challenge Obama to delay the debate/I'll be there!' McCain, but hey... Yesterday you fully admitted the truth...
"Sarge at 12:09 PM JST - 6th October It doesn't matter what McCain or Palin say or do - the election is over. Obama will be the next president. God help us."
... but it seems your head has pushed down your subconscious knowledge again and chosen the path of denial.
Get with the program, sarge, once and for all. Stop flip-flopping like the people you claim to be leaders, and admit once and for all the dems have it. We all know that Obama/Biden will do far more for your country than the cantankerous old McCain and his moronic side-kick Palin could even hope to do, and they'll make the world a safer place, unlike bush who made it safer only for terrorists (and hence increased their numbers radically).
McCain and Palin are toast (and don't bother cutting and pasting this and simply saying 'Obama and Biden', it's immature even for you!), and their character attacks are being seen country-wide (and even the world over!) as the pathetic death throes that they are. Adios, Republicans! Hello, President Obama!
0
SushiSake3
Oh, and Sarge, if the election were tomorrow, Obama would win all of the states John Kerry carried and add Iowa, New Mexico, Colorado, Virginia, Nevada, Ohio and Florida. (Even Karl Rove is saying this!!)
Barack Obama is campaigning in Indiana, which last went for a Democrat in 1964 and North Carolina, which has gone for a Democrat only once in thirty-four years. At the same time John McCain has pulled out of Michigan and Sarah Palin has been forced to visit Nebraska.
That's right - there is a risk Sarah Palin may LOSE in Alaska LOL!
0
SushiSake3
Sarge, the economy is going to remain the number one issue in this race, and there is little john mccain can do to make up his gap with President-elect Obama. Oh, mccain will try to make issues of Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko and Rev. Wright, and that might hurt Obama around the margins -- but it will not prevent him from winning. The economy is simply bigger than the rogues gallery that mccain is conjuring up.
Why won't the swiftboat tactics work this year?
Its easy to lose sight of it in the day to day coverage, but the collapse of Wall Street in the last weeks was a seminal event in the history of our nation and our politics. To put the crisis in perspective, Americans have lost a combined 1 trillion dollars in net worth in just the last four weeks alone. [Thanks GOP!!!]
Just as President Bush's failures in Iraq undermined his party's historic advantage on national security issues, the financial calamity has shown the ruinous implications of the Republican mania for deregulation and slavish devotion to totally unfettered markets.
0
smithinjapan
As I said yesterday, the very tiny amount of pity I feel for Palin is that she was put in the position where she had to spearhead the latest character attacks, and it is going to come back and hit her ten-fold when she scurries back to Alaska to try and hold on to her job as governor. Troopergate will no longer be able to be delayed, and without the executive powers she was no doubt hoping for to shield her from the truth hitting the streets, it will, and she'll be even more done for than McCain's campaign is now. She'll be lucky if they throw her a bone and let her keep her old job. She doesn't deserve it, and now the spotlight will shine on that fact, too. In short, she's screwed herself by opening her mouth and letting herself be McCain's lapdog.... McCain utterly lost the whole thing by choosing Palin -- the worst mistake of his career, and possibly the last.
0
sailwind
If Palin is the person that most posters on this thread think she is, why are so afraid of her?
Interesting that so many feel the all out need to destroy her.
0
SushiSake3
Sailwind - "Interesting that so many feel the all out need to destroy her."
On the contrary - the greatest threat to the GOP is Sarah Palin.
That's what is so funny about this race. :-)
0
SushiSake3
It keeps getting worse for the GOPpers - the latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll out Monday afternoon suggests that the country's financial crisis, record low approval ratings for President Bush and a drop in the public's perception of McCain's running mate could be contributing to Obama's gains.
Fifty-three percent of likely voters questioned in the poll say they are backing Obama for president, with 45 percent supporting McCain.
"Bush has now tied Richard Nixon's worst rating ever, taken in a poll just before he resigned in 1974, and is only 2 points higher than the worst presidential approval rating in history, Harry Truman's 22 percent mark in February 1952," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland."
LOL!!
"More Americans appear to have an unfavorable view of Gov. Sarah Palin, and that may also be helping Obama in the fight for the presidency. Forty percent now have an unfavorable view of Palin, up from 27 percent a month ago and from 21 percent in late August, when McCain surprised many people by picking the first-term Alaska governor as his running mate.
"A majority of Americans now believe that Sarah Palin would be unqualified to serve as president if it became necessary, and her unfavorable rating has doubled," Holland said.
0
Madverts
"If Palin is the person that most posters on this thread think she is, why are so afraid of her?"
Because of what she is like you say, and that the American people voted in George W Bush for a second term, despite the writing being on the wall long before Nv '04.
Sorry Sailwind old buddy, bud overtly-religious freaks should not be in charge of anything, if you're askin' me.
0
SushiSake3
**McCain linked to private group in Iran-Contra case **
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/aponelpr/mccainirancontra;ylt=AtsaLNSixUEppuIJMoFcIB6s0NUE
"WASHINGTON - GOP presidential nominee John McCain has past connections to a private group that supplied aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua in the Iran-Contra affair.
The council's founder, retired Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub, said McCain became associated with the organization in the early 1980s as McCain was launching his political career in Arizona. Singlaub said McCain was a supporter but not an active member in the group."
Is this the SAME john mccain who is right now running for president of the USA?
Wow, he's going to need to do a whole lot more mud-slinging to deflect this one.
0
SushiSake3
OK, so now we hear john mccain has been palling around with....terrorists?
Isn't that exactly the same claim Sarah "road to nowhere" Palin has been making about Obama???
0
zurcronium
Americans are worried about their jobs, not a story that is 50 years old. The swift boat lynching that the republicans want to carry out on obama will not work this time. Fact is that obama can fix the country and mccain will only make it worse. He is tired and old and even his own party is looking past him to the snow bunny. How sad for him. His time was 2000 and bush stole the presidency from him. Its just too late now. Bush has given congress and now the white house to the democrats. Only good thing he has done while president.
mccain should just resign after he loses. buy a few more houses and add to his 13 cars.
0
coulrophobic
" Fact is that obama can fix the country ..."
How?
Senator Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. He has zero experience running a company or meeting a payroll or budgeting for a state. How do you then believe that he can fix the largest, most dynamic economy on the planet? The country is woefully divided. He can't even reach across the aisle
Don't run.
Tell us how you think it can be done.
Be specific.
0
JoeBigs
Here is how and I (an Independent voter) will help ya,
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
If you take the time to read what he has planned you may change and join as I did. He is not a song and a dance as some have claimed. Try it you may like it.
0
smithinjapan
coulrophobic: "Senator Obama has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. He has zero experience running a company or meeting a payroll or budgeting for a state."
And yet, all these people with 'experience' (as you are contrasting Obama with your hero republicans) are the ones who have bungled everything up. So what's your point?
0
coulrophobic
"If you take the time to read what he has planned you may change and join as I did. He is not a song and a dance as some have claimed. Try it you may like it."
If there is one thing which characterizes Barack Obama it is his record of saying or writing whatever it takes to win debates and votes and get elected.
I found much more revealing his wife's repeated angry whining about how well into their mid-thirties the two of them, with 4 Ivy League degrees between them, were still deeply in debt.
Never ran a business or had to meet a budget.
Can't run his own household.
Can't run a government.
0
taniwha
Mudslinging match between the candidate?
Well what else can they do to define a difference for the voters who can't find one but to take the debate to the level of personalities and character. Apart from the age, the only substantial difference in deciding which to vote in for president is personality, and preferred posture.
The whole race has been formulated around identity politics anyway. Its the possibility of an African American as president, or yes, a woman for president - because the threat that McCain succumbs to ill health and old age is very real given the situation this president will have to deal with.
So which do you like the hot tempered, decisive, and experienced (at risk taking/gambling) McCain, or the supremely confident and layed-back, but double talking (particularly given his constituency), and largely unproven Obama?
The unsaid issue in all of this is that fundamentally both candidates are exactly the same policies with maybe the slightest tweaks and differentiated by the biggest lies. They one fact that most of you on this board do not dare think about, although its glaringly obvious at this point, is that the candidates are fronting exactly the same interests, i.e. the thin layer of financial elites in America, and their number 1 sources of funding, the corporations of Wall Street.
0
coulrophobic
"And yet, all these people with 'experience' (as you are contrasting Obama with your hero republicans) are the ones who have bungled everything up. "
Who put the gun to the heads of the tens of thousands of home buyers emboldened by idiotic bleeding heart Democratic legislation designed to provide housing for people who were fundamentally unqualified?
Your assessment - I'm guessing you're a typical big government liberal - excludes any consideration of personal responsibility.
And yes - shame on the unscrupulous lenders out there. Loan forms in Spanish, no income tax docs or a Social Security number necessary...
What a shock it must be for younger Americans (and Europeans, and lots of folks out there): moral and ethical considerations - yours and those of complete strangers - can actually have profound and even fateful consequences for your personal financial well-being, your liberty and your future.
My heroes, btw, come from both sides of the American political spectrum. You obviously wouldn't understand. It will take both sides to solve the current crisis and get the economy back in gear. Throughout this year's primaries Senator McCain was not at the top of my list.
I had previously found him too ready to compromise with Democrats.
0
coulrophobic
yabits - you scare me.
We have a Congress which for the last year has polled at numbers which are half those of a president people like you consistently call the worst of all time.
What does that make this Congress?
0
Nippon5
What does that make this Congress?
A wet bag trying to hold 100 pound rocks??
A waste of a chair in a really nice room??
Same as Bush???
Same as Obama, McCain,Biden, And Hot lips hoolahan?
Im just having fun ... I love them all.......lmao
0
coulrophobic
"Being Republican-controlled for so many years did absolutely nothing for Congress's reputation in the eyes of the American people."
Yabits seems to be saying that though Bush is the worstest president of all times! - and "everyone" knows it! - the Democrats easily took control of Congress in 06 but were so bereft of ideas and policy which could change course that voters eventually came to the conclusion that Republicans still controlled Congress.
How can Senator Obama run on "change" if his fellow Democrats in power, preceding him by almost 2 years, have accomplished so little that the public apparently has forgotten they hold majority in the House and Senate?
0
coulrophobic
Creepy Obama youth coming to a neighborhood near you
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OK5qXwpNvM4&watch_response
0
yabits
Most folks that I talk with who are my age and older do not support McCain. I happened to have lunch with a McCain supporter a few weeks ago and, as the topic turned to politics, he wanted to know why I supported Obama and I told him.
He railed against Bush and how his investments were in decline, and so I asked him what he had against Obama. He replied: "His middle name is Hussein; that should tell you something."
Yes, it told me that the old timer is a poor, frightened old fool. You, Sarge, must be a younger version.
0
zurcronium
http://keatingeconomics.com/
mccain did not learn anything the from the S&L crisis, even though he shilled for keating to keep the regulators from taking action on a massive accounting fraud. Keating by the way was a bible thumper and stole the money of the gullible churchgoers, many of them elderly. mccain just let this happen. And in 2008 he let bush do the same thing once again and now the elderly are watching their savings be drained away. Its a tragedy. All due to the republican being in the pocket of whomever pays them the most, without any moral sense at all.
This is real. This is fact. This is history. Not the made up swift boat lynching that the palin/rove/mccain lie factory is pumping out now against Obama. The republicans are now officially the party of no ideas, only insults and fear mongering and invasion baiting and oil loving losers.
0
sailwind
Somebody on this thread tell my I should vote for Obama. Change doesn't cut it. The guy has a record and and one you put on a postage stamp to be President.
Why should I vote for the guy?
Really tell me why?
0
CavemanLawyer
I wonder if he is old enough to have any special feelings about the name Eisenhower! Could have been a Nazi or two called Eisenhower!
We have a lot of those throwbacks running around America, people who will vote based on the most ridiculous things. We need some sort of test to weed those idiots out of the voting pool. Seriously. Then maybe the candidates will be able to convince us with merit instead of dumb luck garbage like having the right name. --Cirroc
0
sailwind
We had that at one time they were called Jim Crow laws.
0
Betzee
Last week in the debate Sarah Palin declared "she only wanted to talk about the future" whereas Biden represented "the past." So it was with disbelief that I read her interview with Bill Kristol in which she said both Bill Ayres and Jeremiah Wright would dominate the campaign.
Certainly it's hard to flip flop away from McCain's position reiterated, until recently, "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." Yesterday we witnessed what may have been what's know as "capitulation" in the market where people were selling to get out at whatever cost, on the expectation prices will only go lower.
If you're 30s and your stock portfolio has lost one-third of its value over the past year, you have time to make it up. In you're in your 60s, it's a very different matter since that's what is probably underwriting your retirement. So you turn to those running for the highest office in the land for leadership, and instead all those on the Republican side can talk about is two men who are well familiar to the electorate at this point.
I don't know if anyone can fix this, frankly, but you have to at least being talking about the problem.
0
CavemanLawyer
1) With so little, he has gotten so far. Surely, he can talk his way into and out of many a situation. Middle Easterners will respond to him, many already have. McCain only offers aggressive words and aggressive policy. We need a talker.
2) Guaranteed shake up of the cabinet, high courts, etc. Can you imagine who that religious nut Palin will start appointing if she becomes President?
3) The sheer joy of showing spite to the people who brought us the Iraq disaster and streamlined our government and filled it with cronies so that we could not even respond to the Katrina disaster.
4) Obama's military record is completely clean! Nobody can say a bad thing about. Except that it does not exist.
5) I am not completely sure of the life expectancy of a half-black American president with the middle name "Hussein" and last name very similar to "Osama". Even McCain might live longer. Consider it a vote for Joe Biden.
0
CavemanLawyer
I thought it was called "I am a land owner." --Cirroc
0
Betzee
You [NYT's] quote John McCain, “How can you countenance someone who was engaged in bombings that could have or did kill innocent people?” He was referring to Barack Obama’s acquaintance with the former Weatherman Bill Ayers, but the same question might be put to his own supporters.
An argument could be made that the pilot who flew 23 bombing sorties over Vietnam and the former radical were both doing what they believed right — one in support of a war and the other in protest of it — and that both were wrong.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/opinion/l07politics.html?ref=todayspaper
Amen to that.
0
sailwind
That is exactly the reason I will more than likely not for the man.......His supporters, I want the next President to be a leader for all the people and to tell folks filled with spite to move on. Had enough of spite and darn sure don't want four more years of the kind of revenge Government you want and would force Obama to put the rest of us under.
Had enough of Pelosi and Reid the past two years as it is, and that is just a preview of the next four years if Obama gets elected.
0
MrDickMorris
Betzee- your example is immoral. McCain was fighting bad guys in the name of his country.
Ayers was a terrorist, just like Bin laden. The Ayers connection is now the downfall of Obama, thank god, get his idiotic smiling face off my tv.
0
zurcronium
sailwind,
to steal from duke ellington a bit, if you have got to ask about why to vote for obama by now, you will never know.
you will vote for palin/mccain in the end I am sure.
0
sailwind
Zurc,
To steal from Louie Armstrong
A man wants to work...for his pay A man wants a place...in the sun A man wants a gal proud to say That she'll become his lovin' wife He wants a chance to give his kids a better life Well hello ah.... hello brother
You can travel all around the world and back You can fly or sail or ride a railroad track But no matter where you go you're gonna find That people have the same things on their minds
A man wants to work...for his pay A man wants a place...in the sun A man wants a gal...proud to say That she'll become...his lovin' wife He wants a chance to give his kids a better life Well hello brother, hello
(instrumental break)
He wants a chance to give his kids a better life, yes Well hello, hello, brother hello I said hello, hello, brother hello
Is Obama that man to give me that chance or a big Government nanny that thinks I'm owed a life instead? hello brother.
0
zurcronium
sailwind,
reagan and bush have delivered your nanny state to you already. The size of government grew the fastest under these two guys, who I am sure you voted for in the past. So you have already voted for what you pretend to fear.
And now, with bush socializing the entire financial industry in the US, you can vote for mccain to continue that trend. As you have been all your life, a government worker, bush and palin will try to make every US citizen the same. Alaska is already a welfate state thanks to Senator Stevens, who is in trial now for corruption.
And yet you ask who to vote for? Vote for Nader, losers love company.
0
Betzee
Yabits,
When I was in high school I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X too, but it's another book from back in those days, Death be Not Proud, which comes to mind at this moment. It's a father's recollection of his teenage son's last three years before succumbing to cancer. In short, readers come to appreciate that impending death, which cannot be avoided, imposes humility on humans.
Here we are watching the death of contemporary conservatism, of which cutting taxes is a core belief along with deregulation. When this didn't create the prosperity we were promised, well it's back to the Joseph McCarthy play book of "guilt by association." You guys live in the same neighborhood, that's enough. I certainly don't endorse the actions of Bill Ayres, and watching the documentary film The Weatherunderground, didn't give me any greater affinity for his beliefs. But I'm also grateful I missed that turbulent era and wasn't confronted with the choices everyone who did come of age in that day is forced to forever defend.
The unpleasant truth is that a large swath of the American public made decisions that contributed to our economic crisis. Over the weekend I called my credit card company about a charge and heard the "you may transfer your balances from other cards to lock in our low rate" speel. That's nice, I explained, but I don't have any other cards or any outstanding balances. The woman was shocked; she didn't know how to react to this revelation. Our government, along with many individual Americans, has lived beyond its means for a long time and the day of reckoning is now upon us.
0
Sarge
zurcronium - "Alaska is already a welfate ( welfare? ) state"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Where do you get this stuff from, zurc?
0
Nippon5
CavemanLawyer at 09:16 PM JST - 7th October
Why should I vote for the guy?
1) With so little, he has gotten so far. Surely, he can talk his way into and out of many a situation. Middle Easterners will respond to him, many already have. McCain only offers aggressive words and aggressive policy. We need a talker.(a con man ? a player? or do we need someone with actual sound financial ideas?)
2) Guaranteed shake up of the cabinet, high courts, etc. Can you imagine who that religious nut Palin will start appointing if she becomes President? (how can he shake up anything, he votes 94% or so for his party thats not shaking thats following)
3) The sheer joy of showing spite to the people who brought us the Iraq disaster and streamlined our government and filled it with cronies so that we could not even respond to the Katrina disaster.(ahhh the little brother laughing at the older brother when he gets in trouble, I think I would perfer someone who actually learned from the mistakes of history and doesnt repeat them)
4) Obama's military record is completely clean! Nobody can say a bad thing about. Except that it does not exist.(I really dont think ones service matters when electing a president, actually feel an enlisted man would be better then a spoon feed officer)
5) I am not completely sure of the life expectancy of a half-black American president with the middle name "Hussein" and last name very similar to "Osama". Even McCain might live longer. Consider it a vote for Joe Biden. (ahh the they will kill him cause hes a black man clause, seems they try to kill white ones too)
Ill will give you some real reasons to vote for Obama..
He is young and full of energy, he might actually use some of it for some good.
He has a good idea on trying to get people together around the world, its refreshing, but it is also unrealistic
He has a very experenced VP who should most likely be the president and Obama should be the VP, but it didnt come out that way.
McCain has a very bad image becasue he is in the same party as Bush, although with this logic all white people are the same as Bush, or maybe just ones from Texas, hrmmm hard to draw a line on who is the same..
Lastly he has the friends and assosiations all ready in place for running all these companies we just bought...
:) (o) (o)
....../
0
goodDonkey
SezWho2 goodDonkey,
Wow, I was just joking. I thought you might see the relationship between figuratively and literally toxic. Oh well it wasn't meant to be that funny but rather glib.
But since you dragged me into this I will say my peace. I do not believe in guilt by association. I think we can better use their behavior and ideologies to determine how suited they may be for a public office. To put forth the idea that to hang out with somebody is to become them or even to take on their traits is ludicrous to me. I would love to learn what McCain/Palin think about clergy who visit and befriend prisoners. I don't need to carry hate lists or even bad character lists. I believe in freedom of association at both the intimate level and I believe in expressive associations.
As far as Falwell goes, I did find him to be toxic. However I did not mean to express he was a bad example rather I was trying to be funny. I did not want to disagree with you on a classification of Falwell because I felt you were making a valid and compelling point. I am not particularly interested in people sharing my viewpoints. I only care about issues that effect me or my community or my nation. I like diverse opinions and diversity in general.
I do agree with Nessie that "Obama's presence in Wright's congregation does Obama no credit." I take the position that Rev. Wright represents institutionalized ideology of which Obama was a member of the institution. I think it was very important to disavow his (Obama's) ideologies from Wright's. He did; end of story for me.
I guess it comes down to Obama is not a racist and Obama is not a terrorist not does he have radical ideas of violence as a means of change. In fact it is one of the stupidest issues to promote Obama as being in favor of radical change because he is using the democratic process to bring about change by being elected. If one understands the definition of radical then one can see that seeking change from within the system is a polar opposite.
0
coulrophobic
"I guess it comes down to Obama is not a racist"
Obama is racist. Make no mistake. I don't think he hates 'The Other' in quite the same way a criminal who targets those outside his own race does but he has played upon racial tensions to further his ambitions. It comes out pretty clearly in his first autobiography or memoir or whatever.
Audio clips
http://www.khow.com/pages/caplisreport.html
0
SezWho2
goodDonkey,
Very nice post. I realize that you aren't interested in people sharing your viewpoints. Nonetheless I basically do.
I think there may be some toxic people in the world. Charles Manson comes to mind. So does General Pinochet. But someone earlier, here I believe, made the point that people are more than this or that act or statement.
That's why I wouldn't call Falwell toxic, because he had too much of another aspect to his persona. Ditto Wright. And, I'm not sure that Wright did represent institutionalized ideology. That's something I couldn't know without having much more information than I have seen about him.
I agree with what your guess is about what it comes down to. Obama is neither a racist nor a terrorist. He's an honorable man. And I go one more step. McCain is an honorable man, too. That is why it is especially painful to witness this kind of character assassination paraded as information which significantly informs our choices.
0
RomeoRamenII
So, what Team obama is saying is if a U.S. presidential candidate were to "associate" with bin Laden, say 10-20 years from now, this after binny "served his time, paid his debt to America", they would be OK with that.
Ayers and binny are no different. They hate what America stands for and more importantly they are both terrorists.
--Bill Ayers
0
MrDickMorris
RomeoRamell- Great post, and 100% truthfull.
Obama is in league with terrorists , fact. He is a danger to Americas freedoms and capitalist system.
This scandal is too much, have some honor Obama, resign now, all of us patriots demand it!
0
SezWho2
coulrophobic,
I listened to some of these clips. It's pretty clear to me that Obama is reading from his book--perhaps for the benefit of people who can't or don't want to read?
He is not giving a speech. He is not expounding his theory of race. He is describing the various spaces that he went through in his lifetime. If you want to cling to the notion that his books are racist, I can neither stop you nor help you.
0
SezWho2
RomeoRamenII,
Thanks for the levity.
0
yabits
The Republicans must have screwed things up really bad if the person you describe is favored for our nation's highest office.
0
Good_Jorb
Would that bw similiar to oh say, being associated and working with Bin Laden's family or perhaps authorizing government agents to train, now known terrorists? Maybe all the CIA/Military that were involved in training Bin Laden's fighters in the 80's should tried for treason? How about selling arms to Pakistan to keep the allies?
0
zurcronium
The way the repubs have screwed up the US in the last 8 years, the failed war in Iraq for example, the bush depression for example, its clear that the entire party hates the USA and is trying to destroy it. This is news today. Yet the repubs want to talk about the 1960s.
Typical missing WMD thinking.
0
RomeoRamenII
Yet the repubs want to talk about the 1960s.
zee, because you are a canadian, you're not expected to understand what blowing up U.S. federal buildings and police stations and killing people in the process means to Americans.
The Republicans are doing what the U.S. media has refused to do: properly vett obama.
Traveling to Alaska to interview liquor store owners was more important to them than explaining to American voters things like why he still refuses to release his birth certificate, or why did he travel to Pakistan in 1981 on an Indonesian passport under the name "Barry Soetoro", or what he actually did while attending three different universities since his college transcripts have also never been released; something that all past presidential candidates have done.
It is now less than 30 days before the general election and obama's past remains a mystery.
0
yabits
Who really cares what Obama did early on in his college career? Maybe he failed a few classes -- who really cares? What we know is that he completed Harvard Law School near the top of his class, graduating with highest honors.
0
coulrophobic
"What we know is that he completed Harvard Law School near the top of his class, graduating with highest honors."
Can you provide some proof for that?
As far as I know Senator Obama never published a single article. He still won't release his transcripts, which is odd, since an average of 7000 vie for the 500 slots available.
All you know is what his handlers say...
0
RomeoRamenII
According to who? You? Your claim of obama's academic greatness is not supported by Harvard since they have never made his transcripts public. Nor has Columbia. Nor has the college he attended in California.
0
yabits
The status of Obama's graduating with honors is well known by the university. If you don't like it, you can take it up with them.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=516664
0
RomeoRamenII
Heh, in place of official school transcripts, some are willing to accept a college newspaper puff piece as proof of obama's academic greatness (rolleyes).
0
Sarge
RR - It doesn't matter that Obama's past remains a mystery. Too many voters wrongly perceive the financial crisis as being caused by the Republicans, and wrongly perceive Obama as being able to fix it, despite his having no experience in finance whatsoever. Obama will probably win. Incredible, isn't it?
0
yabits
When the college newspaper is the Harvard Crimson, one would take it for granted that they know the facts of the matter.
Heading up the Harvard Law Review is a position reserved for the best academic performers, in other words, academic greatness. If the claims of Obama's graduating with honors were not true, I'm sure that someone from Harvard would step forward to refute them.
0
RomeoRamenII
Sarge - Naturally, obama wants to talk about anything else but the last 25 years of his life because that subject will not give him the keys to the White House.
Since obama's greatest achievement as a politician is knowing when to vote "present" on the tough issues does not make him a good leader, his judgement is the primary issue in this election. And the American voters are beginning to see what obama and his leftist dog walkers in the U.S. media have been working so hard to conceal.
obama's ties with hate whitey racists "ministers", marxists, domestic terrorists, convicted slumlord criminals and Nation of Islam leaders combined will wind up being his Wille Horton.
0
Betzee
That's standard practice. Nor have the five or six colleges Sarah Palin attended in pursuit of a BA released her transcripts, aren't ya just a little interested? Incidentally, neither did Clarence Thomas release his law school transcript, as is customary, for committee review during his nomination hearings to the Supreme Court. Don't think he was quite up there in the top of the class like his colleagues who did release them. No matter, betcha somebody's gonna call me a racist for such speculation.
Sarah Palin insists Bill Ayres is relevant, but hasn't explained her husband's membership in the Alaskan Independence Party, founded by a man who declared: "My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."
Now I'm willing to accept what a colleague who grew up in Alaska told me, namely it's an alternative party for disgruntled but harmless types. Just as I'm willing to accept Bill Ayres had been rehabilitated in Chicago by the time Obama made his acquaintance. But, many people are not as flexible as I who am more interested in the issues than associations.
My concern is growing, however, that the way the Republicans are going at this they will incite violence. The Secret Service is already investigating an audience member who yelled "Kill Him!" in response to Sarah Palin's claim Barack Obama palled around with Bill Ayres. Then at a McCain rally when the Senator asked, "Who is the real Barack Obama?" he was immediately informed by a member of the audience, "A terrorist!"
It doesn't take much to get such types worked up into a frenzy of self-righteous anger. I'm relieved the McCain campaign won't be staging an event in my community because I would have to avoid it as a safety precaution.
0
RomeoRamenII
If what you say is true, then please direct me to just one article written by obama that was printed in the Law Review (of course, you already know it's a basic requirement for taking the helm of that publication). I'll admit that I could not find one.
Perhaps the school newspaper printed it instead.
Looking forward to your link.
0
yabits
This crisis is the natural culmination of the Reagan economic philosophy: get rid of government regulation at all levels, and that deficits don't matter as long as you keep cutting taxes. The Reagan theory said that both will spark the economy to such heights that the federal coffers will be overflowing, and that Americans would enjoy unbroken prosperity.
We are now reaping the harvest of Reaganomics -- voodoo economics as George H.W. Bush called it.
0
yabits
Betzee writes: "My concern is growing, however, that the way the Republicans are going at this they will incite violence."
In my opinion, it is not beyond some on the Republican/conservative side to commit all manner of evil to subvert democracy and get their way.
0
yabits
Are you actually claiming that Obama did not head up the Harvard Law Review?
0
yabits
What is the source of that claim?
0
yabits
Where did the Crimson get the information regarding Obama's graduating with high honors. From Obama? (Didn't think so.)
0
RomeoRamenII
No, you are the one who wrote:
So, where is your link to obama's published paper in the Law Review, since that is a basic requirement for the job?
0
Betzee
Wow RR, you read the Harvard Law Review? Now I'm impressed......
The law review president's election is a fussy affair, part intellectual debate, part frat house ritual. Obama was one of 19 candidates. As the 61 editors not running for the job debated the merits of the candidates behind closed doors on a Sunday morning in late February, the hopefuls cooked them breakfast, lunch, and dinner . Every few hours, the editors winnowed the list further, until just after midnight, when only Obama and a 24-year-old Harvard graduate....remained contenders. At about 12:30 a.m., the editors called Obama into the room, told him he had won, and broke into applause.....
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/atharvardlawaunifying_voice/
As an editor, you can't publish your own stuff and have readers accept that it went through the same, rigorous vetting process as anonymous submissions do. It's not like a blog, after all. Soooo, why didn't he publish elsewhere?
Perhaps he realized we were entering an era of "gotcha politics," and creating a paper trail was not really such a good idea if you wanted to run for national office. I mean, you're not interested in reading anything he wrote for any other reason than finding ammunition against him, are ya?
BTW, I don't believe Clarence Thomas ever published anything, and he got to the Supreme Court. It's not necessary to publish unless you want to pursue an academic career anyway.
0
RomeoRamenII
http://www.harvardlawreview.org/about.shtml
So, your link to obama's published work (just one will do), please.
0
Betzee
RR,
If you read the link you pasted in you would have noticed at the bottom:
All student writing is unsigned. This policy reflects the fact that many members of the Review, besides the author, make a contribution to each published piece.
In other words, Obama could have published but would not have been listed as the author since that's Harvard's policy.
0
yabits
Betzee:
You would understand that only those law students whose academic performance was superlative would even be considered to head up the Harvard Law Review, even if RR doesn't seem to get it.
0
Betzee
Though I didn't check, I'm sure Harvard Law Review is available online only to institutional subscribers (something RR also seemed unaware of leading me to believe he doesn't do much academic reading).
I'm a professional writer and appreciate being an editor is a different job. My work is praised but I'm not a good editor, I don't have the patience for it for it frankly.
The President of the Harvard Law Review, who has 60 student editors working for him which is an indication of the amount of manuscripts they receive, is probably not involved in editing prose so much as selecting content. Any journal editor who publishes his own stuff or that or his friends on a regular basis will have difficulty getting quality submissions, a problem which the Harvard Law Review has yet to confront.
0
coulrophobic
Senator Obama was the affirmative action choice for HLR editor; it looks as though he will be the affirmative action choice for president.
0
smithinjapan
poor coulrophobic! He can't take the fact that Obama is the better person for the job, so he resorts to calling it a 'sympathy' vote. Sorry, amigo, but the fact is not only is he the better person for the job, if it were going to anyone out of sympathy it would be for poor old 'I only crashed five jets' McCain; I mean, the old man is getting to be a bit out of touch with things, so why not throw the guy a bone? hahaha.
Welcome, Obama, to the White House.
0
jwills79
Coulrophobic,
If Obama's selection was based on AA then that just brings to light how truly sorry McCain and some other Caucasians are. McCain crashed 5 planes, graduated 894 out of 899, and cheated on his disabled wife for a younger rich women. You sound like the many white people in the US upset that "White Privilege" isn't as influential as it use to be. It is how alot of people got where they are or were. Minorities who made it usually have to work two or three times as hard as a white person. You shouldn't hate because Obama has accomplished more than you and John McCain. No matter what rude comment you make (Obama's achievements so far eclipse your own) Your comments just shows some White people's insecurities due to their own shortcomings;) (Racism is just an excuse to keep one group in power.)
0
coulrophobic
"You sound like the many white people in the US upset that "White Privilege" isn't as influential as it use to be."
But jwills,
Under an Obama administration I might well qualify for affirmative action.
Would you like to try again?
0
zurcronium
Again,
what is behind these comments by the rightwing riffraff is racism. To abusing his name, to comments about affirmative action (in applying for harvard obama did not list his race), to the muslim lies, to reverend wright and on and on basically what the wingers are saying is that they cannot allow a black man to become president. Especially one that is so much smarter than they are.
Well they can thank bush for allowing this all to happen. Only a total failure like him could open the door to the Whitehouse for Barrack Obama.
0
coulrophobic
"Well they can thank bush for allowing this all to happen. Only a total failure like him could open the door to the Whitehouse for Barrack Obama."
Zurcronium, you do realize that after all your accusations of racism you imply that Senator Obama could not have made it to president any other way than in succession of a supposedly failed 'white' Republican.
0
Nessie
He must be hiding something! ;)
Danged if ya do, danged if ya don't, eh Zurc.
0
coulrophobic
"in applying for harvard obama did not list his race"
You mean he just wrote Barack Hussein Obama and sent along his thoroughly mediocre Columbia and Occidental College transcripts?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76170
0
SezWho2
RomeoRamenII,
There is no requirement that the Harvard Law Review president publish an article under his own name. The president of the Review is elected by fellow editors. It's a peer thing.
Here's a glowing article about Obama during his Harvard Law days which I am sure you will love:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/01/28/atharvardlawaunifying_voice/
0
SezWho2
Since links often do not work here, here's a tinyurl that will open in a preview window and let you link to the article:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2c9wsq
0
jwills79
coulrophobic,
Comeback with some real information not just weak one liners. You sound like the McCain campaign. No real substance, just resorting to school yard tantrums. He is getting so frustrated during debates, there might be heartattack in the future for Mr. McCain.
Worldnetdaily.com is not credible source. They don't even note their sources. It like Corsi's "Obama Nation", which they promote, based on mostly lies and internet rumors which have all been proven false.
0
Betzee
It's curious that GWB supporters are questioning Obama's academic achievements. Did he benefit from the emphasis on diversifying the elite? No doubt. But so did Condi and Colin Powell both of whom, to their credit, have acknowledged that. Other things being equal, it does give you are extra edge. But you have to climb into the pool of competence on your own steam.
David Brooks, NYT's columnist who has been cited here by posters other than moi, whom I would describe as a "intellectual who happens to be a conservative," rather than a conservative intellectual like Bill Kristol, hits the nail on the head with his description of what's wrong with the Republican Party today (extracted from a forthcoming interview):
[William Buckley] thought it was important to have people on the conservative side who celebrated ideas, who celebrated learning. And his whole life was based on that, and that was also true for a lot of the other conservatives in the Reagan era. Reagan had an immense faith in the power of ideas. But there has been a counter, more populist tradition, which is not only to scorn liberal ideas but to scorn ideas entirely. And I'm afraid that Sarah Palin has those prejudices. I think President Bush has those prejudices.
Indeed. When GWB's plan to have a Dubai-based company run US ports met with resistance he used an ad hominem argument to dismiss his critics: "If you didn't like the deal, well that meant you were anti-Arab." Similarly, if you question Sarah Palin's credentials, that means you're an elitist. Etcera, etcera.
I'm sure far greater numbers of those who identify themselves as conservatives today tune into el Rushbo than read George Will. We're going to pay a huge price for this anti-intellectualism in the current administration which was, until recently, claiming "the fundamentals of our economy are sound."
In short, they have no new ideas, or even new ways of looking at the world, since that anticipated sirocco of freedom never swept through the Middle East nor did the unfettered market deliver prosperity.
0
coulrophobic
"I'm sure far greater numbers of those who identify themselves as conservatives today tune into el Rushbo than read George Will. We're going to pay a huge price for this anti-intellectualism in the current administration which was, until recently, claiming "the fundamentals of our economy are sound."
And the millions of young, affluent, spoiled "Kossacks", as they call themselves, bring to the national debate the same sort of erudition and capacity for reasoned debate that New Republic readers of Buckley's generation once did?
Personally, I believe Senator McCain, like a real leader, was trying to calm fears and caution against overreacting when he called the fundamentals strong. He suspended his campaign. He rallied support within his party for the 'bailout'.
Senator Obama, in contrast, said he could go to DC 'if needed.'
0
Betzee
A real leader would acknowledge the USD 700 billion alters the financial landscape and therefore he would reverse himself on making the GWB tax cuts permanent (which he never supported in the first place).
Instead Sarah Palin went on record mocking Biden's admittedly poorly worded defense of paying increased taxes as a patriotic duty (which I agree with). Instead, claiming to represent Joe Sixpack, she declared "In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that’s not patriotic.”
She's defended Uncle Sam's $700 billion rescue plan of the ailing financial industry. She defended the surge in Iraq. She supports sending more troops to Afghanistan. And yet she has dismissed the need to find a way to pay for these priorities as "unpatriotic."
Ending the practice of inserting earmarks into financial authorization, and an Alaska Republican Congressman stuck on into this bill incidentally, won't come anywhere near balancing the budget.
When I visited college campuses last spring, not private "elite" institutions" but community colleges and state-run teaching universities, I was struck that Ron Paul had much more support than any Republican candidate on campus. I can certainly appreciate why; students know they are going to get stuck with the bills from the above owing to irresponsible (Republican) leadership.
0
coulrophobic
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2008/10/obamavssp_500.php
Spooky.
The stock market's decline mirrors the increasing likelihood of Senator Obama's victory.
0
WilliB
Pointing out Obamas radical socialist roots and connections is not "mud slinging". It is the "vetting" of candidates which the mainstream media has so miserably failed to do in this season.
0
SezWho2
Well, pointing out Obama's radical socialist roots when there aren't any is "mud slinging" and not "vetting".
0
OnTheRecord
SezWho2- Hey, hi is a radical socialist. The guy wants to leave Iraq o become a terrorist stae, he is in league with Acorn, who fraudulently enlist homeless to vote for Obama. He was in league with ultra socialst Bill ayers, the guy who terrorised the nation.
how more radical and socialist can you get?
0
SezWho2
OnTheRecord,
There is nothing radically socialist about leaving Iraq to become a terrorist state. Furthermore, Obama does not want to leave Iraq to become a terrorist state.
ACORN is not radically socialist. There is nothing radically socialist about supporting housing for low or middle income families, for supporting economic opportunity for them and for registering people to vote. It is true that some ACORN staff have falsely registered votes. It is also true that ACORN has supported investigation of all such charges and have fired those found guilty. Obama is "in league with" ACORN only to the extent that it supports his candidacy and he generally supports its goals for lower and middle class Americans.
Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground never "terrorized the nation" although the Weather Underground was fairly called a radical socialist organization. Whatever Ayers was, there is now nothing radically socialist about him. Obama was never "in league with" Ayers except to serve together on boards and community projects.
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coulrophobic
"Obama is "in league with" ACORN only to the extent that it supports his candidacy and he generally supports its goals for lower and middle class Americans."
Wrong.
Obama is more than in league with ACORN, he helped make it as powerful as it is.
It's the Association of Community Organizers for Reform, Now.
How stupid do they think people are?
The level of deception his campaign is engaging in is shocking.
When a newspaper finds archived docs revealing long and deep ties he simply changes his story, updates his "Fight the smears" webpage, and says he was never hired by ACORN.
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7203
There is also this, from an old ACORN article left online:
"Let’s take a look at a quote from a 2004 article - Case Study: Chicago- The Barack Obama Campaign - written Toni Foulkes, a Chicago ACORN Leader, which was published in the journal Social Policy. Did we mention that Social Policy recently pulled this particular article from their website, while leaving links to all articles up?
Obama took the case, known as ACORN vs. Edgar (the name of the Republican governor at the time) and we won. Obama then went on to run a voter registration project with Project VOTE in 1992 that made it possible for Carol Moseley Braun to win the Senate that year. Project VOTE delivered 50,000 newly registered voters in that campaign (ACORN delivered about 5,000 of them).
Since then, we have invited Obama to our leadership training sessions to run the session on power every year, and, as a result, many of our newly developing leaders got to know him before he ever ran for office. Thus it was natural for many of us to be active volunteers in his first campaign for State Senate and then his failed bid for U.S. Congress in 1996. By the time he ran for U.S. Senate, we were old friends."
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/10/09/barack-obamas-involvement-with-acorn-unearthed-missing-articles-recovered/
This guy just lies and lies and lies.
0
JoeBigs
1.Pointing out Obamas radical
You are correct Obama is radical. He is radical to the neo-cons because he believes in changing the mistaken direction our nation is in.
2.socialist roots
Interesting I did not know he belonged a a Socialist political group. Can you give us proof of this by providing us some information of which Socialist group/s you belonged to or belongs to.
Now if you believe that Obama is a Socialist because he became a friend of Ayers well then let us begin to find out who else should be considered a Socialist.
Richard M. Daley Mayor of Chicago
Stanley O. Ikenberry Educator
Arnold R. Weber Worked under the Nixon Administration
Doris Salomón Chagin BP America Inc.
Patrick M. Sheahan UBS Investment Bank
Anyone working or studying at the University of Illinois at Chicago since he is a Distinguished Professor at that University.
Alice J. Palmer Illinois Senator
Anyone associated with or who has given money to the Woods Fund of Chicago
Anyone involved with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
Let us not forget anyone who is a friend of Obama and Ayers
Also let us add Bill Ayers and Obama`s neighbors, they too are Socialist because they know them......
Oh wait, did the Marverick McBush say that Obama was a decent person? He too must be a Radical Socialist!
If we follow this foolish road everyone in the Congress should be considered a Radical Socialist. Hell everyone in this Nation is also, opps let me correct myself.
Anyone except Palin and her AIP friends that is. She and her AIP friends are not at all radical!LOL
0
coulrophobic
Joe Bigs - you couldn't possibly be more uninformed about the socialists Obama travels with and his stealth socialism.
You list Illinois senator Alice Palmer, the woman who hand-picked Obama to replace her.
From Investor's Business Daily, Thursday, August 21, 2008:
"Who Alice Palmer is and what she believed is the real story here. Ten years earlier she was an executive board member of the U.S. Peace Council, which the FBI identified as a communist front group, an affiliate of the World Peace Council, a Soviet front group. Palmer participated in the World Peace Council's 1983 Prague Assembly, part of the Soviet launch of the nuclear-freeze movement. The only thing it would have frozen was the Soviet Union's military superiority. In June 1986, while editor of the Black Press Review, she wrote an article for the Communist Party USA's newspaper, the People's Daily World, now the People's Weekly World. It detailed her experience attending the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and how impressed she was by the Soviet system. Palmer gushed at the "Soviet plan to provide people with higher wages and better education" and spoke of the efficiency of the Soviets' most recent five-year plan, attributing its success to "central planning." She praised their "comprehensive affirmative action program, which they have stuck to religiously — if I can use the word — since 1917." Palmer also marveled that all Russian citizens were guaranteed a job matching their training and skills, free education, affordable housing and free medical care. Because Soviet school curricula were established at the national level, she said, "there is no second-class 'track' system in the minority-nationality schools as there is in the inferior inner city schools in my hometown, Chicago, and elsewhere in the United States."
0
JoeBigs
Great source there ,Investor's Business Daily a conservative newspaper.
Here is a counter point, if he is so close to Alice Palmer, then why did she campaign for Hillary?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/once-obamas-men.html
He must not be as left as you may think........OK let us try some connecting the dots......
John MCBush and his connections to;
The famous Keating Five and Lincoln Savings and Loan loss of over 3 BILLION.
How about this far right group, International Republican Institute. Nice bunch of Neo Cons that want to spread peace throughout the world.
Being called a Manchurian Candidate by George Bush. Nice ring huh, yeah I know it means nothing but since we are on this train let`s go all out.
Now let us not forget his Girl Friday
http://www.akip.org/
Bring out your mug, ring ring, bring out your mud!
Hell who cares about the issues let us just spread rumors and call Obama "An Arab!" that is all McBush and his gang of wacko Right Wing nuts can do.
BTW no one has brought up the fact that goooood old McBush was born in Panama have they! Dare it McBush is not even an American! LOL
0
coulrophobic
"Great source there,Investor's Business Daily a conservative newspaper."
A conservative paper whose podcast page offers New Republic podcasts right alongside those of the conservative writers they feature. Show me one of your Lefty sites that is as interested in what the other side believes.
"Here is a counter point, if he is so close to Alice Palmer, then why did she campaign for Hillary?"
He isn't close to her. She introduced him to politics at the state level, basically offering her state senate seat since she had decided to run for Congress. But she lost and wanted her old seat back. He campaigned against her and with legal help had enough of her votes invalidated to win. Result:She endorsed Hillary. Who wouldn't? Try doing a little research beyond the LA Times.
"BTW no one has brought up the fact that goooood old McBush was born in Panama have they! Dare it McBush is not even an American! LOL"
Glad you brought that one up.
"A lifelong Democrat who has held political office and been a committeeman, Philip Berg, has brought suit over the real questions raised by the absence of a valid Obama birth certificate. His narrative of the various questions Obama has refused to answer is devastating. Graphics and sound are well-deployed to avoid tedium as factual data is conveyed in a way that allows viewers to absorb it. When he contrasts Obama's behavior when challenged (use perfectly valid legal technicalities to delay) with John McCain's full disclosure of all documentary evidence under a similar challenge (remember the flap over his birth in the Panama Canal Zone? -- who raised those questions, anyway?), there is no doubt in a viewer's mind that there is something seriously wrong here."
McCain has proven that he meets the Constitution's requirements for POTUS.
Obama has not, though he has accepted over 400 million dollars from American Democrats.
Why won't he provide his legal birth cert and things like university admissions records and transcripts?
Judge for yourself. The same video makers who brought the Rev Wright videos to the public's awareness
Obama October surprise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfIV1ntYggc&feature=related
0
JoeBigs
Darn it JoeBigs if only you had some facts, like maybe a copy of Obama`s Hawaiian birth certificate!
Oh well I do have a copy....... coulrophobic please use the link and wammo Barack Obama` U.S. Birth Certificate for your eyes to look at. Guess what, he is an American, born on American soil! Can you believe that?LOL
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg
I thnk your YouTube source is not as good as my source!LOL
0
coulrophobic
The same pic of Obama's birth was in the video, along with an explanation of why it is bogus.
Where is the LA Times explanation of why the Obama campaign has filed a motion to dismiss the Berg lawsuit instead of easily proving he is eligible to be POTUS?
McCain settled doubts about his eligibility by producing the vault version of his birth cert.
Why won't Obama do the same?
What better way to prove, in these times of financial insecurity, that the Democrats are serious about protecting you? Obama took 425 million dollars in donations.
No small sum.
Even if I were a Democrat I would have some serious concerns.
0
JoeBigs
Please tell me that you are not using Philip J Berg as your source on all this?
Philip J Berg, this lawyer is a nut case from way back. He is a rabid Hillary supporter and hates Bush more than anything.
This guy is too funny, no one takes this guy serious. LOL
Berg is your source, oh my god!!!!LOL
My eyes are watering up with all the laughter!!!!LOL Oh please this is as good as when McBush picked Palin!!!!! RMAOLOF!!!
I am done talking to you on this subject....I thought you really had something....Sorry.....!LOL
0
coulrophobic
"Philip J Berg, this lawyer is a nut case from way back. He is a rabid Hillary supporter and hates Bush more than anything."
Which only means he is like a lot of the Democrats in America...
McCain settled all doubts about his eligibility by producing the longer, more detailed vault version of his birth cert.
Why won't Obama do the same?
0
SezWho2
coulrophobic,
Once more we need to know what dictionary you are using. If you mean that Obama has worked with ACORN in the past, that he has assisted it and it has assisted him, then under that definition they are in league.
However, if you are suggesting that Obama is tied to ACORN in the sense that he is obliged to it and it to him or that he and ACORN are engaged in some illegal or nefarious activity, then, no, he is not in league with ACORN.
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