McCain takes on Bush, GOP along with Obama

Monday 08th September, 11:03 AM JST

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Thenewfront at 03:40 AM JST - 9th September

adaydream, moderateGuy2008, ColAmerica, Sarge, SushiSake3; How come you blokes argue with such vitriol against each other?

We have heated discussions about elections in Britain, but we sometimes do agree with the other sides views.

I hope however wins, will be less likely to start wars. How many died in the last 8 years.

Fight wars, not war!!!
SuperLib at 04:15 AM JST - 9th September

daydream: Just bacause John McCain was a war hero doesn't make him presidential material.

I can support that opinion to some extent. His time in a POW camp won't necessarily mean he'll make the best decisions as President on issues such as the economy, the environment, etc.

But I do think his actions in the POW camp speak a lot about his character and I think that is something we should evaluate our Presidential candidates on. People can say that it might not make him a better President in terms of decisions he'll have to make, but they tend to go too far when they tell us that this evidence of his character is meaningless.
adaydream at 04:23 AM JST - 9th September

I know...I know...I know.

You don't want Ron Paul a true republican. You want four years of John bush, which would be 90% of george bush's presidency.

More tax cuts for the rich.

More corporate tax cuts.

More of big oils promises.

More big oil tax cuts.

More energy policies that only cost us more and more.

More give aways to prescription drug companies.

More war policies. < :-)
adaydream at 04:33 AM JST - 9th September

SuperLib - Being a POW gives him character. Maybe someone you'd vote for, but not me.

I'm looking for more than someone who was a POW and has the character you want to vote for.

I'll vote for Barack. < :-)
WhiteHawk at 04:56 AM JST - 9th September

Funny that such a blindly left-wing partisan such as adaydream would lecture anybody about what a "true Republican" is. Paul is a Libertarian.

Please try not to divert the thread. Besides, I've already listed many occasions when McCain opposed Bush on other threads. Since you and jwillis79, DanManjt and several others insist on chanting the "McCain voted with Bush ##% of the time" mantra after I've posted evidence proving you wrong, what's the point? You're just going to keep repeating the same unfounded talking points on every thread that comes up. Such repetition doesn't mean you're right, it just means you're stubborn.

More big oil tax cuts.

Hahahaha, don't tell me you don't know about Obama voting for subsidies for oil companies!
Helter_Skelter at 05:00 AM JST - 9th September

Superlib

But I do think his actions in the POW camp speak a lot about his character

Well said. It's the sum of a person's life experiences that make them who they are. McCain's experience as a POW alone doesn't qualify him to be president, but it says a lot about his character. In the same way Obama's experiences with Weatherman terrorist William Ayers and race-pimp Pastor Wright say a lot about his character.
adaydream at 05:08 AM JST - 9th September

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLWEDMLmjKk

This Colonel doesn't buy the McCain chrisma. I don't either.

What would tell him that would convince him that John McCain is the right guy for the nation? < :-)
sdmsec at 06:26 AM JST - 9th September

McCain battling big business: I wonder if he'll still be as misguided as his Campaign Finance Reform acts were?

He seems to enjoy attacking symptoms rather than root causes.

The root problem of big business in Washington is Washington has too much power to affect businesses through tax incentives, loans, grants, and regulations. Washington plays preferences with specific companies and industries. Therefore, companies and industries lobby hard to make sure they're on the "preferred" side of Washington's power. Limit D.C.'s power and money and you'll find big business has much less interest in D.C.

Here's a quick real-world example:

Recently read an article where U.S. auto industry is lobbying for a $50 billion loan to develop "green" cars. Why lobby the federal government? Can't they issue corporate bonds or setup a loan package from some big banks? Of course not, would you bet your money with them? So instead, they'll get the loan from YOU via taxation.
Taka313 at 06:56 AM JST - 9th September

"Get with the program."

More evidence of un-thinking, cult like behavior.

Sad, really.

Taka
adaydream at 11:08 AM JST - 9th September

It was hilarious to listen to the interview with Tom Ridge after his speach at the convention. He referenced John McCain as John bush. I got a great laugh. < :-)
Sarge at 11:12 AM JST - 9th September

Taka313 ( 6:56 AM ) - Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say. What program?
goodDonkey at 11:35 AM JST - 9th September

WhiteHawk said:

Please try not to divert the thread. Besides, I've already listed many occasions when McCain opposed Bush on other threads.

and

...several others insist on chanting the "McCain voted with Bush ##% of the time" mantra after I've posted evidence proving you wrong, what's the point? You're just going to keep repeating the same unfounded talking points on every thread that comes up

Out of your list of nine items that you provided on the Maverick there were four he completely reversed his position and went along with Bush; actually five if you count the tax cuts he is now touting. Not included in those five are three which were not within the time frame quoted where McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. McCain did vote with Bush 90% of the time; you did not prove them wrong. Here are the refuted examples:

McCain has been harshly critical of congressional overspending, particularly of budgetary earmarks, a position Bush only lately adopted (after the Democrats took over Congress).

Except when it comes to earmarks in his state. In 2006, the senator teamed up with fellow Arizona senator Jon Kyl (R) to funnel $10 million toward the University of Arizona for an academic center named after the late Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. Even Arizona lawmaker, Rep. Jeff Flake (R), said he was planning to “lean against the measure.” The National Taxpayers Union, another traditional McCain ally, questioned why the senator was making federal taxpayers foot the bill for the center.

McCain favors FDA regulation of tobacco and sponsored legislation to that effect, a position all but a handful of Republican senators oppose.

On that one he flipped again. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. “I still regret we did not succeed” he said. However times have changed. Last year, McCain voted against legislation that would have used a 61-cents-per-pack tax to expand a children's health program. He also hired a Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser Charles Black. I guess if Charles Black was good enough for Jesse Helms he is good enough for McCain.

McCain went with Joe Lieberman on a tough measure to curb climate change, something Bush denies is going on.

Actually that was another flip-flop. Read this article by the Wall Street Journal on his change of heart.

http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2008/05/29/mcwaver-whats-the-deal-breaker-for-lieberman-warner/

Of course when you use language like "McCain went with Joe Lieberman on a tough measure to curb climate change" maybe you meant he "went with" part of the way he did not complete the journey though. He missed the vote so he gets no credit there; he was vocal about withdrawing support if you read the WSJ article.

McCain led the battle to restrict interrogation techniques of terror suspects and to ban torture

But then he caved. Yes I remember when Lindsey Graham, Jack Warner and McCain stood up to Bush. McCain voted to allow the C.I.A. to circumvent the rules set out in the Army Field Manual on Interrogation by voting against a prohibition of such practices. In other words the C.I.A. could torture to their hearts content by McCain's vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/us/politics/17torture.html
Hoss1 at 06:26 PM JST - 10th September

gooddonkey - great post!
Nessie at 07:38 PM JST - 10th September

I've already listed many occasions when McCain opposed Bush on other threads.

I'm sure the Oval Office curtains will be the first thing to go.
Nessie at 07:42 PM JST - 10th September

To summarize Gooddonkey's post....

Not only is McCain lockstep with Bush, but McCain betrayed his principles to achieve that lockstep.

In the escort business we call that pandering. But I'm sure it's a Maverick kind of pandering. John "Not on the Lips" McCain in 2008!