Merkel: Pope must clarify Holocaust stance
The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.
JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
-
U.N. Security Council blames Syrian gov't for Houla killings
( 3 )
-
U.S. drones kill 5 militants in Pakistan
( 4 )
-
NATO has fight on its hands in Afghanistan - Panetta
( 1 )
-
Iran may rethink 20% enrichment: spokesman
( 0 )
-
Egypt's uprising activists weigh Brotherhood vote
( 0 )
-
1
Gov't turns to AKB48 to sell bonds
-
2
Japan declined U.S. offer to station nuclear experts in Kan's office: Edano
-
3
Edano says he didn't deliberately mislead public about extent of nuclear crisis
-
4
Tabloid blasts growing numbers of foreign welfare chiselers
-
5
Lame applicant pool plagues Don Quijote
-
- English Instructor (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe)
- Berlitz Japan, Inc. (ベルリッツ・ジャパン株式会社), Kansai
- Salary: ¥125,000 ~ ¥250,000 / Month
-
- ALT - Mie Prefecture - Yokkaichi City - June start
- NPO法人グローバル教育推進機構（GLAD), Mie
- Salary: ¥230,000 / Month For a full working month. Some months differ.
-
- Business Teaching Positions - Part-time - Kanto Region
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥3,000 ~ ¥5,000 / Hour
Order by Time Order by Popularity
72 Comments
Login to comment
0
smithinjapan
So just say it and clarify. What's the problem if it will put an end to the incessant calls? They SHOULD make it clear, and that'll be that.
0
timorborder
Great, a Neo-Nazi hiding behind a priest's frock. The "man of god" should be excommunicated and marginalized for the irrelevence he is.
0
sabiwabi
Glad to see at least one bishop smart enough to understand the truth and brave enough to express it. Why should anyone be forced to believe everything about this historical event. If you want us to belive it, make it believable by providing adequate evidence.
0
sabiwabi
Strange how this sentence is just thrown in there.
Anyway, you can listen to the interview in question here: http://www.forward.com/blogs/bintel-blog/15031/
The bishop explains his reasoning quite well.
0
skipthesong
If you want us to belive it, make it believable by providing adequate evidence." who may I ask is us?
0
sabiwabi
Us is not you! Its anyone who wants to see proof instead of learning history from Hollywood.
0
Yelnats
When did Hollywood become the spokesperson for the Holocaust? The event happened and there is tons of proof that it did.
0
Nessie
Um...not pro, so that means con.
0
skipthesong
Us is not you! Its anyone who wants to see proof instead of learning history from Hollywood." Ok, on that, I'd agree. But how about we not just limit it to the Holocaust?
However, I've visited two camps and they were big enough to hold a lot of people. Did I count them, no. Did research documents, no. So, in a way, your right we can debate the number but if we are going to do that, you need to open yourself up on other fronts. Game?
0
presto345
From the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (not Hollywood):
I suppose Williamson and sabiwabi did some independent research.
0
skipthesong
presto: You clearly put at least 2 Million there and those numbers are of only Auschwitz and Lublin/Majdanek? And there were quite a few camps as well, correct?
Sabi, what are you numbers?
0
presto345
For more info please check here: ** http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/merkel-pope-must-clarify-holocaust-stance#tool_button **
0
sabiwabi
Skip, I haven't looked at the holocaust for a few years. I remember correctly, I believe the number is around 100,000 - 300,000 deaths total in all nazi camps. Its important to note that most of these deaths were from disease (mainly typhus), and that many were not Jews. I don't recall if these numbers are the same as those of the Red Cross, but I do recall that they too had a relatively low number.
Anyway, nobody denies that people were placed in these camps and that many died in them, or that the conditions there near the end of the war were horrific. What many are saying however is that there is no proof that any of them died in gas chambers.
Did you bother to listen to his interview?
0
Madverts
Bah.....the Vatican protects it's own, from holocaust denial to paedophile priests.
A disgrace, the whole damned outfit. I can't believe that people remain faithful to this particular set of religous pretenders.
0
Madverts
sabi,
Are you really prepared to believe the many many survivors of the camps are all part of your conspiracy?
Even that crank Irving has admitted the gas chambers were real.
0
skipthesong
sabi, those numbers you put out are low man, way low. Now, I have not looked into the numbers and I have thus so far accpeted the 6 Million Jews plus the other millions of Russians, etc...
Why such a difference?
presto, any reason why you put me on a wild goose chase?
And finally, if no one died in those gas chambers, what they hell were they for?
0
skipthesong
also, I think this is a clue of what to expect as I personally feel the world is again moving towards a vast antisemitism. Perhaps the Vatican is cozying up Iran.
0
sabiwabi
Which ones? Do you know that many have been proven to be liars. You can probably still find on Youtube an old clip from Donahue's show, with two revisionists as guests (Cole and Smith). There was also a surviver, showing her tattoo and screaming how she had seen with her own eyes the human soap and the lamp shades, two hoaxes that are no longer believed by either side.
I believe the 6 million figure has some biblical significance. They even tried to use the 6 million figure during or after WWI but they swept that under the rug when nobody was buying it.
Which gas chambers? The ones built after the war? Nobody has been able to provide any evidence that any alleged gas chamber has been used as a homicidal gas chamber. Why should the Bishop or anybody else be forced to believe something for which there is no evidence? Those "gas chambers" disguised as showers were most likely showers, and other alleged gas chambers were air raid shelters (that's why the doors open inwards). There were some real gas chambers used for delousing clothing and linen (with Zyklon), but these were clearly not used on humans.
0
presto345
I am very sorry, skipthesong, something went wrong! Below is the correct link. === The gas chambers were very real as confirmed by the testimony of many survivors and those who got there right after the capitulation. Different kinds of gas were used. The evidence is there and for anyone to find if you take the trouble to look for it and do not rely on an interview with a renegade priest and the commentary of those who will doubt anything in the style of the flat earthers.
0
presto345
Sometimes I hate this format. Here the link once more if the moderator allows it: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007387
0
presto345
Someone asked the question: "Which gas chambers?" Answer: "These gas chambers": == One of the most significant events to alter the makeup of the concentration camp system was the decision to deport and systematically murder the European Jews. To facilitate this "Final Solution" (the physical annihilation of the Jews), SS and police officials established four killing centers in German-occupied Poland exclusively for this purpose: Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. The SS and police staff at each of these camps used carbon monoxide gas to murder Jews in large numbers. The SS establishment also constructed one killing center in the concentration camp system. Auschwitz II, better known as Auschwitz-Birkenau, began killing operations in spring 1942. In Auschwitz-Birkenau, the SS had within the concentration camp system a killing center that had four gas chambers and that, at the height of the deportations, could kill up to 6,000 Jews each day.
In order to ensure an efficient flow of Jews from German-occupied countries, German officials and their collaborators established transit camps, such as Westerbork in the Netherlands, or Drancy in France, from which SS and police officials coordinated the deportation of French Jews and Jews on French soil, primarily to Auschwitz. In Auschwitz II, planners of the “Final Solution,” aiming at greater efficiency, used the pesticide Zyklon B (prussic acid) to kill prisoners by means of gas. Beginning in 1941, SS authorities constructed gas chambers to kill smaller groups of prisoners as part of “routine” operations at Auschwitz I, Lublin/Majdanek, Sachsenhausen, Mauthausen, and other concentration camps.
0
sabiwabi
The Americans had their own forensics experts look at the bodies and they could not find one body of a person killed by gassing. Anyway, I hope anyone who looks at presto's site will also have a look at the research revisionists carried out at the alleged gas chambers (www.codoh.com). So, has anyone bothered to listen to the Bishop's interview? Do you disagree with any specific point he made in his reasoning? For example, how the American aerial photos do not support the gassing story.
0
skipthesong
sabi, so are you telling us that Hitler and many Nazi did not want to kill off the Jews in Europe? If your numbers are correct, what happened to all those Jews that once live in Europe?
0
sabiwabi
presto, thank you for pasting text about the holocaust story. But nobody is denying that this STORY exists.
We want to see the evidence, not just some text stating that this happened. Where is the evidence in your site. Is it the photo of the pile of hair brushes?
0
presto345
Rather, the Americans had some forensic experts look at some bodies. Once thing is sure: even now death by carbon monoxide poisoning is almost impossible to diagnose.
0
sabiwabi
Skip, they moved. Many of them changed their names. Even in recent years, Jews have been reunited with family after decades of thinking that they others were killed in the camps. The nazis' goal was not to kill all European Jews, it was to convince Jews to move to Palestine. Hitler himself was probably 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish, as were many top nazis. Their election campaign was heavily funded by Jewish zionists; e.g., Warburg who despite being Jewish could move around Germany and stay in the best hotels throughout the war.
0
SuperLib
What Sabi's trying to say was that the holocaust was done by Jews on Jews for benefit the Jews. At least I think that was his position before, after reading the above it looks like he's following the same lines but he's not really coming out and saying it as clearly as he did in the past.
0
presto345
sbiwabi, you are welcome.
I am beginning to get a faint idea about who you mean by 'we'. But, OK. The evidence presented at the site, which is the result of many years of searching, writing up of interviews and findings by those who were there, evidently does not satisfy you, the bishop or the flat earthers. If you really want to find out the truth, instead of trying so hard to disprove it, I would suggest you visit some documentation centers in Europe and the United States. The cynicism about the hairbrushes is rather misplaced, by the why.
0
sabiwabi
presto, are you saying the site focuses on witnesses? Then you should check out the video called something like "One third of the holocaust", it blows to bits many of these witnesses; they show you the exact sites and explain how the testimonials are impossible. Check it out.
0
Madverts
sabi,
Even the super-crank British historian now admits the gas chambers were real.
Heh, you know it's bad when even the most red eyed of conspiracy theorists have shunned your theories. This has got to be up there with the Flat Earth Society.
0
grafton
Sabiwabi
During the Israelí Gasa conflict I accused you of being anti-Jewish & you defended yourself by saying that you had nothing against the Jews but did against Israel. I didn’t believe you then & I certainly don’t believe you now.
Documentary evidence held in the archives of the US & many European countries proves what really happened. Germany makes no denial of what happened. The only people who try to pretend that the holocaust never happened are those extreme right wing nuts that are still supports of Nazism or those that are anti-Jewish (or both).
Older Catholics were indoctrinated into the idea that Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus Christ. This indoctrination was an integral part of the church service & was spoon-fed to them from childhood on, deeply implanting the anti-Jewish message.
Don’t challenge me for evidence on this because I am older than you & have personally sat through this. I sat through this because I was attending a Jewish school though not a Jew & as such the local church FORCED my mother put me through their insane religious education. I grew up as a forced Catholic in a Jewish community. I knew the survivors. I am in a way a witness to who they were (are) & you disgust me by calling them liars.
You do not want evidence because you are blind to any evidence. You believe ONLY what you want to believe. What motives you is beyond me, there is a sickness in your whole reasoning. There is a sense of fulfilment that comes close to happiness when you are “proving” an anti-Jewish point. Maybe the moderator would delete your posts if you were ever to be honest about what you really think. Me? I know what you are & I cannot be the only one on this site that sees you for that.
0
franz75
The devil is in the details. 6 millions people didn't die in the gas chambers.
Nazis used a variety of horrible ways to kill.
From exhaust pipes, slave labor to starvation.
"gas chambers = 6 millions" is wrong.
Sabi, gas chambers existed and were used for an industrial way to exterminate European Jews.
"The nazis' goal was not to kill all European Jews, it was to convince Jews to move to Palestine. " WTF? The "final solution" was a transit holiday camp?
"Hitler himself was probably 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish, as were many top nazis." read "IBM and the Holocaust" about how Nazis used sorting machines to spot who was "pure" and the others.
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
Others are speaking to the wider picture. Allow me to speak to specifics...
Not quite true...Nazi doctor, Dr. Spanner, is said to have experimented with making soap from humans. In addition, a couple of years ago, it was reported in reputable newspaper that a piece of soap from Dr. Spanner was found to have human DNA as a part of its makeup. Although it is doubtful that this was produced on a large scale it is known that guards at the camps used to taunt the prisoners telling them the soap was made from humans. So, there is no 'hoax' involved whatsoever. A hoax would be a purposeful action to lead people to believe something and no one has ever proven such a specific purposeful action no matter how you attempt to say otherwise.
I am confused. Just last month, you wrote how you were shocked that I could suggest you seemed to be supporting 'Nazi policies' (because, among other things, you have suggested in the past that Hitler was a "nice guy")and you wrote back asking how I could suggest you supported the 'Nazi murder of six million people'. If you don't believe it was six million, why the faux 'shock'?
What sabiwabi neglects to mention is that holocaust deniers (that is what the Iranian News Agency refers to them as) are using analysis of these photos by a man named John Ball is not only not qualified as an aerial photography expert, but is not even a qualified photography. The man was laughed out of a Canadian court room by the judge when Ball attempted to testify as an 'expert witness' on aerial photography. So, claims about aerial photographic evidence by holocaust deniers, including claims by this bishop, should be taken with a tiny grain of salt.
Specific proof that 'Hitler was 1/2 (meaning his mother or father was Jewish) or 1/4 Jewish (meaning his grandmother or grandfather was Jewish), please...or does 'probably' mean 'I have no idea' in this case?
Here is an example of something completely untrue. Max Warburg was forced to sell his bank because of Nazi persecution and emmigrated to the US in 1938. He never 'funded' the Nazi's election campaign and he certainly was not staying in the best hotels through the war, unless you are referring to hotels in the US.
Count down to sabiwabie accusing me of being a 'member of a Zionist criminal syndicate' in 5...4...3...
BTW, I heard on the news this morning that the Pope is requiring that the minister recant his entire statements about the Holocaust before he can be reenstated. I think that is a great start...
0
sabiwabi
kinniku continues to believe in the soap story when even Yad Vashem announced there is no proof. Just goes to show how kinniku will defend his side to the end. I hope you won't start another long and humiliating (for you) discussion about DNA analysis of soap.
As for the aerial photos, do YOU see the gas chambers? You have often brought up peoples' alleged lack of qualifications. You should understand by now that many people who "deny" (refute any part of) the holocaust automatically lose their qualifications; PhDs are denied or revoked, people are fired and/or jailed. Just look at the case of this excommunicated Bishop who must now "recant his entire statements about the Holocaust before he can be reenstated". And kinniku thinks this is a great start!!!
Anyway, Williamson looked at the evidence and he clearly does not believe in the gassing story. If he has any integrity and if he is truly a man of God, he will not recant.
0
sabiwabi
Nobody denies the holocaust never happened, why use such deception?
Well, then they should finally provide evidence of the gassing.
Yes, we hear that very often
0
sabiwabi
Accidently pressed submit, here goes...
Yes, we hear that very often, but what the Williamson, Faurisson, myself, and many many others are simply asking is for proof; there ain't none!
You need "sorting machines" for that? Why would they catalog and tattoo Jews if they just wanted to kill them. Seems more like it had to do with transfering them to Palestine, possibly under the Havara (spelling?) Agreement. Not many people are aware that the first ships (ca 1935) loaded with Jews going to Palestine were flying the Nazi flag and the star of David.
0
kinniku
kinniku,
sabiwabi,
Sorry, since you discount places like Yad Vashem as a source when used by others, you cannot use it yourself. In addition, the tests I referred to are after Yad Vashem's announcement. That is one of the biggest problems holocaust deniers face. They have absolutely no new information. The 'Holocaust Convention' in Iran was a complete joke with the same silly theories being presented as if they were new information. As to our DNA discussion, I merely referred to the information at hand and suggested that since previous tests on soap used DNA testing (with negative results as I mentioned at the time)that they had probably been used on the soap about which we were discussing. Nothing humiliating about that for me. However, what was sad for you, as it is here now as well, is that you could not prove even one of your claims. Not one.
Ummm...you did not read what I read and you do not remember what I taught you about John Ball. He never HAD any qualifications to lose. The man took a couple of photography classes as an elective in college. That is it. He has no training or qualifications whatsoever to analyze aerial photography. This is what holocaust deniers use for their 'proof'.
By the way, I (not just myself I am sure) am still waiting for your specific list of top Nazis that were Jewish and proof of Hitler being 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. Bet it will be a loooong wait, huh?
The laughs just keep coming! In the past, some examples of what you have written:
and you have also written that:
So, again, there is no deception on the part of anyone here(except maybe on the part of yourelf of course).
What sabiwabi also conveniently forgets is that we had a discussion a couple of years ago about the homicidal gas chamber at Dachau, which was specifically designed by the Nazis for the purpose of killing human beings. So, when he says 'there are no gas chambers' or 'what gas chambers' he is prevaricating. He knows they existed.
As far as being happy the Pope is taking responsibility for his bishop attempting to spread hate that the church has said it is against. This is not a matter of free speech. It is a matter of the bishop wanting to be a member of a group and having to follow the rules of the group.
0
franz75
sabiwabi: "Yes, we hear that very often, but what the Williamson, Faurisson, myself, and many many others are simply asking is for proof; there ain't none!"
As long as you are not looking for them, "there ain't none!".
Testimonies from guards and prisoners? Mass graves? Zyklon B was soap? Camps blueprints? Mountain of gold teeth? All lying?
"Why would they catalog and tattoo Jews if they just wanted to kill them." because Nazis used several prisoners for slave labor and experiments.
The one who were of "no use", were exterminated (without tattooes)
They didn't bother giving them a name tags. IBM machines were first used to sort who is Jew, who has jew ancestors them finally to manage the camps.
ps: Palestine was occupied by the British by the way.
0
sabiwabi
That certainly is a childish way to respond. Grow up already! We've been "discussing" a few years already, I would have thought you'd reach adulthood by now.
Did you listen to Williamson? (http://www.forward.com/blogs/bintel-blog/15031/). That's not hate. He is simply explaining that he looked at the evidence, and according to the evidence, there is nothing to support the gassing story. That he is being forced to recant, as Galileo was, is very worrying. That a group has such a rule is also worrying.
I have trouble believing those quotes are authentic. I am always careful to include that the official version or story of the holocaust is false, not that the holocaust never happened. You should know this if you have read my posts. There might have been a time or two when in a hurry I might have accidentally omitted the word "story" or "version". Interesting that you somehow managed to fish out those two quotes. Also interesting that when I google the first one, I only get two hits, both of which are you stating that I had written that. Hmmmm.
The only thing I remember from our previous gas chamber discussions was your showing me that was laughable (flimsy door with a large window, door opening inwards, ...) and completely refuted by revisionists.
Anyway, do YOU see in the aerial photos things to support the presence of gas chambers? How can you accuse Williamson of spreading hate if you can't address the points the he brings up. Is Williamson wrong? If so, how?
0
sabiwabi
Yes, and the Balfour Declaration was written in exchange for getting the US into WWI. Unfortunately, few Jews wanted to move there. That is why they got the Nazis in power while simultaneously have other countries refuse Jewish immigration; to get the Jews to move to Palestine.
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
I am sorry, but I must require that you play by the rules you set for others. If you are constantly claiming other people's sources of information are not trustworthy, you cannot then use them when you see fit. That is the height of hypocrisy. If someone else were to use Yad Vashem you would hit back (as you have in the past) with it being 'Zionist propaganda' or some such thing. So, you cannot then use such a place for your own argument.
As I have successfully pointed out, the 'evidence' he has looked at is completely flawed and useless. As such, so is his 'explanation'.
Yeah, right. LOL, thanks again! The first one is from October 2006 the second one is from September of 2005. Of course you have written the same thing many more times. I just don't want to waste space here presenting them. However, rest assured there are many other examples of your making similar statements. Your thoughts on the matter are hardly a well kept secret. That you can't find them yourself only speaks to the fact you seem to have trouble navigating the internet, hmmm...
You have just written two incorrect statements: One, we discussed many gas chambers, none of which had 'flimsy doors' etc...Two, we specifically discussed the homicidal chamber in Dachau. Lastly, holocaust deniers have not be able to successfully refute anything. Please specifically state one thing that has been refuted by deniers, who they were, what they refuted and when they refuted it. Specifics, please...
He is wrong because the 'evidence ' he presents is flawed and incorrect, as is yours...
BTW,you still haven't gotten around to naming the Jewish Nazi leaders and specifically stated how Hitler was 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. As usual, it seems you have no proof and no answers.
0
sabiwabi
No, you never commented on the evidence, only on the qualifications of Ball. Unless you're blind, you should be able to look at the pictures yourself and comment on them. I am sure Bishop Williamson looked at them, why can't you? That is the only way you can "successfully point out".
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
I have commented on the pictures many times and will do so again here. Actual experts in aerial photography disagree with both John Ball (completely untrained and unqualified to analyze aerial photos ) and Bishop (who is also not trained or qualified)and their feelings about the photographs. I see nothing of value in their analysis whatsoever.
I notice you still haven't gotten around to naming those top Nazis who were Jewish. You completely incorrectly claimed that one Jewish person was backing the Nazis and you even went as far as to claim he was staying in nice hotels throughout the war when the man had emmigrated to the US in 1938. Is that why you are so shy about naming the people you claim were top Nazis and were Jewish? Also you still haven't gotten around to showing specific proof of Hitler being 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish as you suggested. Specifics, please.
0
franz75
sabiwabi:
"That is why they got the Nazis in power while simultaneously have other countries refuse Jewish immigration; to get the Jews to move to Palestine."
They? The British? This is getting more sick than I thought...
Are they all lying? Wasn't there a mass extermination?
Gas chambers were used as part of the "final solution".
Did you read how Nazis came to the gas chamber solution?
0
sabiwabi
No!
Where is the proof? That is what Bishop Williamson, Robert Faurisson, myself, and many others want to see.
kinniku, you still have not commented on the photos. I bet you did not even bother to look at them, or bother to listen to Bishop Williamson's interview; so YOU are unqualified to comment.
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
You made a very specific claim. You stated that top Nazis were Jewish. Please specifically name who these people were. Also, please state specifically how Hitler is 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish as you suggest? Did you forget you wrote that?
Bishop Williamson is not an expert, neither are you. Neither is John Ball, to whom the holocaust deniers rely for their outrageous theories. I agree with the expert analysis of the aerial photographs. There is no need for me to specifically comment on the photographs. It is you that is making claims here. Why not try and be specific and provide evidence of your claims. Note you certainly have not commented on the photos yourself. You just prefer to agree with people who have no connection with aerial photography. Rather strange since holocaust deniers are always going on and on about how much 'facts', 'details' and 'expert witnesses' are important. I am responding to what you have written. You have often written of the 'big lie' about the Holocaust that you have 'discovered'. I have often asked you in the past to specifically tell me what specific and purposeful 'lie' you have 'discovered'. Yet you have never specifically answered. Shy?
0
sabiwabi
Sounds like you still haven't listened to the interview and looked at the photos. Its a short interview and Bishop Williamson explains his reasoning very clearly. If homicidal gas chambers existed according to the alleged piles of documentation, there should be tall chimneys to evacuate the gas. Such tall chimneys cannot be seen on allied (US?) aerial photos taken of the camps during the alleged gassing. You do not need a PhD in photography to look at the photos and determine whether such chimneys existed.
As for the top Nazis being partly Jewish, I'll fetch you the info when I have extra time. But since you claim to have better internet navigational skills, feel free to beat me to it.
0
franz75
sabiwabi: http://www.usi.edu/music/SITES/MAD/GALLERY/tourgallery/Auschwitz.html
Look at the bottom. Now claim:
it was the kitchen
it was build afterward by the Zionists
that's my house!
0
grafton
Sabiwabi
Would you please tell us all why you feel there is this need in you to prove the Jewish people to be liars?
This sham bishop that you believe in has also made other claims that you fail to mention, perhaps because to do so would show the man to be a lunatic. He claims that the US planned the World Trade Centre attack. He claims the Free Masons are conspiring against the Catholic church. His attitude to women is bizarre & insulting. He also believes in the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which I would doubt you also believe is real.
0
sabiwabi
Franz, I believe I've seen that "gas chamber" before on the revisionist sites (www.codoh.com)(www.vho.org). It isn't very convincing when you look at it carefully. That might be the same "gas chamber" that Dr Frederick Toben showed how the chimney was not even connected to the chamber, that is likely added later for the visitors. I'm sure you can find the video out there. That room was most likely an air raid shelter. BTW, just below it is a picture of a nearby swimming pool, would SS officers be swimming so close to a gas chamber that was continually evacuating deadly gas? Think a little.
0
sabiwabi
I was not a fan of this guy; I did not know of him until now. Thank you for bringing up his other claims, sounds like my kind of guy (except to his attitude to women which I am not aware of). The usual group of criminals did carry out 911, there has been an intensive conspiracy against the Catholic Church since the late 1950's, and the protocols fit exactly with what has been happening for over a century. Its not Bishop Williamson who is the lunatic, its whoever denies all these obvious things, for which there is much more evidence than the existence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers.
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
That is not the way it works. You have been claiming since 2005 that top Nazis were Jewish. You mean to say that after claiming this again (and never answering to questions of specifics time and time again) that you still cannot respond? This leads me to believe that you actually don't believe this and you are just writing it as you have other incorrect tidbits such as Fox News owning Al-Jazeera (LOL) and Ari Fleicher being an ordained rabbi (LOL, again). How it is that you claimed Warburg was 'traveling around and staying in nice hotels in Germany through out the war, when he was in the US since 1938? You don't seem to know what you are talking about at all.
With regard to homicidal gas chambers. The bishop is not an expert and as such in completely unqualified (the same as the unqualified and untrained witness for holocaust denial, John Ball)to comment about gas chambers in aerial photographs. However, considering how holocaust deniers still use horribly incorrect and unreliable analysis from John Ball to make their cases today, it is hardly surprising holocaust deniers would use the unqualified and untrained analysis of a bishop such as this.
As far as 'tall chimneys' there is a tall chimney on the Dachau homicidal gas chamber for all to see. You know, where holocaust deniers have been uncorrectly claiming there weren't any homicidal gas chambers. I guess holocaust deniers don't really know what they are talking about either.
0
sabiwabi
Oh, I forgot that you have been assigned the role of determining what rules must be followed and you get to decide who is right and who is wrong. On second thought, why bother fetching the info for you, since I am sure it will not satisfy your "guidelines". I have provided some specifics when I first brought it up years ago, and I might fetch the info for you once you grow up.
I see you still have not bothered to look at the photos. You just talk about Ball's alleged lack of qualifications. So that is how you, and many exterminists work: you blindly accept the words of people who you say are "qualified". Revisionists don't do that, we look at the photos, we don't just take Ball's word for it; and I'm sure Bishop Williamson also looked at the photos.
I've always wondered why you keep on mentioning the Dachau gas chamber. I even checked the Wikipedia page for the camp and it doesn't seem to mention gassing. And I don't even remember seeing anything about gassing from camp's own homepage. Why is this Dachau gas chamber so important to you?
0
kinniku
You have never once provided specific information about your claims that top Nazis were Jewish. You have said you would going to 'fetch' the specific information 'when you have time' over and over again. Interestingly, you never do, although you seem to have time to write that they exist over and over.
You mention Wikipedia, but I will not comment on that because you discount Wikipedia when others use it in a discussion. However, we have discussed and you are aware that there is a homicidal gas chamber designed by the Nazis for specifically this purpose. You were unable to specifically refute this just as holocaust deniers have never been able to specifically refute anything to do with the holocaust.
I don't care about you or the bishop think about the photos as you are not trained and not qualified and you both have certainly demonstrated a consistent bias concerning anything to do with the holocaust. You even go so far as to tell tall tales about Warburg traveling around and staying in nice hotels throughout the war when he was actually in the US. It is not that I 'blindly accept the words of people I say are "qualified", it is that I do not accept the words of people with an obvious and proven bias (such as the bishop's, or yours). It is amazing how many times you have been caught 'bending the truth' or being 'deceptive', as you like to say. It is almost as if you are a parody of a holocaust denier as you are so often incorrect and unrealistic.
0
sabiwabi
But you have often used Wiki, when it favors your view. I noticed you ignored commenting on the Dachau camp's own website. Same excuse, I guess. If what your implying is true, I would have expected both Wikipedia and the camp's own website to describe it in a prominent way. Are you making stuff up again?
All camps have a room that exterminists have claimed at one point to be a gas chamber. I know you have brought up Dachau many times, but I still do not know what has convinced you that the Nazis built this particular room specifically as a homicidal gas chamber.
Then why are you here? Bishop Williamson clearly described how a homicidal gas chamber should have a tall chimney, and such tall chimneys cannot be seen on the allied aerial photos taken at the time of the alleged gassing. Instead of just saying that he or Ball are not qualified to comment you should be saying either:
A. Such tall chimneys are not needed because ....
or
B. Such tall chimneys are clearly visible on the following photo...
0
kinniku
The bishop can talk about how he thinks a gas chamber should be built all he wants (and you as well), however neither of you know what you are talking about. So, why should anyone believe you?
As to the Dachau homicidal gas chamber, I am unaware of anyone suggesting the design is anything but that of a homicidal gas chamber. Do you know something specific that says it isn't? Remember, I am responding to your incorrect comments. That is 'why I am here', to have a discussion. I don't have to believe the bishop's or your analysis to participate in the discussion.
Since you have proven yourself to be incorrect many times (such as the example above), why should anyone trust your analysis? Sorry, neither you nor any other holocaust denier has ever specifically refuted any proven lies in the holocaust...not once.
Moderator: Stay on topic please. Focus your comments on the bishop.
0
sabiwabi
That's just it, nobody should believe me or Bishop Williamson. They should believe their own eyes! They should look at the aerial photos themselves and determine with their own eyes whether the homicidal gas chamber stories are legit. In the same way, nobody should blindly believe the exterminists. Everyone should seriously look at the evidence and make up their own minds.
But my question is that since the camp's own homepage and Wikipedia do not talk about it, what is it that convinces you that it is a homicidal gas chamber?
Moderator: Readers, please keep your comments focused on the bishop's comments.
0
kinniku
No one should blindly believe anyone. However, most people certainly would not trust a ramen shop employee from Izu to look at a lung X-ray. In the same way, I would not trust you or this bishop to analyze aerial photographs or gas chambers. However, I remind you that extremists are people outside the "norm" and a quick look here on this thread shows that I am certainly "in the norm". You on the other hand...
You seem to have a short memory about this, too. We discussed this in detail in January 2007 and if you were to check you would see this has been extensively discussed on the BBC among other places.
Holocaust deniers have never proved any of their "theories" (conspiracies)...not one.
0
sabiwabi
All I remember was your avoiding providing the evidence, as you have done on this thread.
You are making up excuses for what is clearly absent from the aerial photos. Aerial photos are not like lung X-rays, all you need to look at aerial photos are is at least one good eye and some common sense. As for analyzing the gas chambers, Bishop Williamson ,in his interview, refers to the analysis of the alleged gas chambers by an American gas chamber expert. I know you do not "accept" this expert's qualifications...
With the criteria you use, its impossible for anyone to prove anything. Holocaust revisionists have contributed to the revising of the holocaust story. The reason many are in jail now, and that Bishop Williamson is being forced to recant, is that they want to avoid further revisions.
0
kinniku
Sorry. It is your job to provide evidence. You are the one claiming that homicidal gas chambers didn't exist. What is your proof? In addition, not only did I show you the homicidal gas chamber in Dachau, you commented on it and we had a discussion. One thing I proved is that your claim that it had been proved not to exist by holocaust deniers was incorrect. There had never proof submitted by holocaust deniers.
I am not making excuses at all. Quite the contrary. I am merely pointing out that you and the bishop are not qualified to look at aerial photos nor at gas chambers and analyze them with accuracy. In fact, your responses make me think you don't even know which photos the bishop was looking at. The man has suggested today that he is basing his opinions on information from the 80's! Even he has stated that he should probably look at the information again.
I am not surprised you feel this way. However, you are incorrect. Analyzing aerial photography is a specific science and skill just as analyzing an X-ray is. You see, that is why people actually go to school and learn how to do it and get qualified in it.
As you have stated, the bishop has been basing his opinions (and not actually analyzing the information) on the opinions of people considered to be 'experts' by holocaust deniers such as John Ball who probably could not even develop film properly.
Nope. They have done no such thing. Please specifically show me one thing holocaust deniers (that is what they are referred to in Iran) have revised that is accepted universally. Who did it? When? What did they proved? Where? Specifics, please.
0
sabiwabi
You continue coming up with silly excuses to avoid supporting your Dachau gas chamber and aerial photo claims, and you ask me for specifics? Not even Wikipedia or the Dachau camp's website mention the gassing, don't you find that rather odd?
That's just it, there is no proof.
Bishop Williamson makes some statements that based on the evidence 200,000-300,000 Jews died in the camps and none were killed in gas chambers. What I find amazing is that people are outraged at his comments and they are so absolutely certain that he is wrong, yet they cannot provide any proof. How can someone be so absolutely certain they are correct and not have a good understanding of the proof.
So either prove it, or leave Bishop Williamson alone.
0
kinniku
Yes, I am asking you for specifics. You brought the subjects up and have been bringing them up for about 4 years. It is rather strange that you cannot speak specifically to questions about your claims.
One, you would never accept Wikipedia or the Dachau camp's website as evidence and in fact you have consistently written against both sites and similar sites. So, I find it rather odd you would attempt to use them for your own evidence now. Before you say again that I have used Wikipedia, I would remind you that I also have never complained about it as a source (although I would admit I don't think it is neccessarily the best source of information ) when it has been used by others.
Two, gassing does happen to be mentioned in the Dachau camp website. I am thinking you haven't actually looked at it or that you were looking at the site connected to a company that offers tours to the camp. Either way, you are mistaken.
No, it does not work that way. You and the bishop both made the claim that only 200,000 to 300,000 people were killed ignoring census and almanac figures that have been used by both sides of the argument that suggest the 6,000,000 figure is much closer to reality. You in these threads have been making the same series of claims you have continued to make for more than 4 years. Yet, you cannot provide specific data or proof.
You made claims of 200,000 to 300,000 people. What specifically is this fiqure based on?
You have claimed the Nazis were Zionists.
Specifics, please...Who are these people?
You have claimed some of the top Nazis were Jewish.
Specifics, please...Who are these people?
You have claimed Hitler was 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish.
Specifics as to why you have claimed this, please...
0
sabiwabi
Why do you continue to use such a childish reasoning about sources; grow up already. If Dachau does mention gassing, why don't you elaborate? I bet what it does mention is insignificant.
Those who claim the 200,000 to 300,000 killed do not ignore the census and almanac figures. Revionists have also analysed those numbers.
You can get an answer to pretty much all your questions if you check out the video by Jim Condit Jr “The Final Solution to Adolf Hitler” http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6759022809518563654&q He holds up the source for pretty much everything he says. There is also a great interview about of Condit about the video with Christopher Jon Bjerknes.
0
kinniku
Sadly, this is the reasoning I have seen you using for more than four years now. When a person uses a source, you often claim it is 'unreliable', only to then use it yourself in the same or another argument. Sorry, it is not very fair of you to say Wikipedia is not reliable when talking about the Holocaust and then use it when you are discussing the Holocaust. The same is true for camp homepages and the like. So, maybe it is time for you to take your own advice and 'grow up'.
They certainly do. They also are completely unable to explain the population decreases.
Well, that certainly is specific...not.
Lastly, I did not ask you for a movie or a video. I asked you to specifically answer questions about claims you have been making for more than four years. One would assume you have thought of the answers before making such claims, however it seems you have not...could it be you actually don't believe what you are writing? Seems possible given you can't answer some simple questions...
0
sabiwabi
Yes, and everything is clearly explained in that video, with sources. If we were great friends, I would look at that again and write down all the relevant information for you, but instead I telling you that if you want the answers you'll have to look at the video yourself. Its much better than when you tell me to use Google.
0
kinniku
sabiwabi,
Sorry, I do not believe the answers you claim are there are in the 147 minute video you are now expecting me to watch. If you cannot simply answer the questions, it stands to reason you don't have the answers and were just saying you do.
You claimed Max Warburg was backing the Nazis and you even claimed he was living well in nice hotels and traveling freely around Germany through out the war. You were absolutely and completely wrong as he was in the US after he had been forced to sell his bank and emmigrate to the US. I think that is the reason you refuse to be specific. There are no specifics. You are wrong, plain and simple...
made claims of 200,000 to 300,000 people. What specifically is this fiqure based on?
You have claimed the Nazis were Zionists.
Specifics, please...Who are these people?
You have claimed some of the top Nazis were Jewish.
Specifics, please...Who are these people?
You have claimed Hitler was 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish.
Specifics as to why you have claimed this, please...
Back to top