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Moscow fights back after sanctions; battle rages near Ukraine crash site

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Yup.. the crash site was safe and secured and investigators had spoken to the East-Ukrianian freedom fighters saying they're very helpful and professional, until the Ukraine army started to attack.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

Russia announced a ban on most fruit and vegetable imports from Poland and said it could extend it to the entire European Union, a move Warsaw called Kremlin retaliation for new Western sanctions over Ukraine imposed on Russia on Tuesday.

Good. This means the sanctions finally have some real bite. Unfortunately it is only the average citizens of Russia who'll be punished, due to higher prices/less availablity of fruits and vegtables. But they think Putin is wonderful, so they need to understand the consequences of his actions.

Moscow called the new EU and U.S. sanctions “destructive and short-sighted”

As opposed to Russia arming the rebels and even firing into Ukraine. Nothing "destructive or short-sighted" about that, right?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

A terrible global disrespect to the Airline victims and their families.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

<>

Thank you for the precise figures of casualties

These figures seems to be precise, but they are not. It is official tally from Kiev military authorities, hugely whitewashed. Kiev regime simply does not want to tell its people and the world about its losses, sometimes it just has no idea about the situation on the battlefield. Now near the hamlet of Izvarino combat groups of three brigades (24, 72 and 79th) are comletelely cut off from the rest of the Ukrainian forces for at least several days, have no supply of ammunition, food and water and slowly dying (or soldiers defecting to the nearby border with Russia and surrender). Besides, apart from regular army units there are several neo-nazi volunteer battalions ("Azov", "Aidar", "Donbass" and several others). These SS units have almost zero military training and suffer particularly high losses, and military authorities don't count them, because they are not regulars and out of army control.

About civilian losses: http://rbth.com/news/2014/07/30/twenty_seven_people_killed_in_horlivka_in_past_threedays-_city_hall_38646.html

About the situation in the region: http://rusvesna.su/english

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Good. This means the sanctions finally have some real bite.

That's funny. You call those sanctions? 8 people and three companies, one of which is just an airline that flies from the Crimea to Moscow?

Even the veteran Cold War US intelligence analysts are coming out against Obama. This should tell us one thing: they smell a rat and that rat is Obama trying to start WW III.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/obama-release-ukraine-evidence.html

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Even the veteran Cold War US intelligence analysts are coming out against Obama.

We don't need intelligence analysts to tell us that Russia has annexed part of another sovreign state contrary to all international norms. These sanctions are about Crimea. While MH17 has galvanized countries into acting, it is not the reason behind the sanctions.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

These sanctions are about Crimea.

And Crimea was about the US backed Nuland cookies-n-coup.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

These sanctions are not enough to deter the crook and swine Putin from his aggression. Instead of targeting Putin's associates, why not try to seize Putin's own assets (stolen from the Russian people)? Bar all Russian banks from operating in the EU and USA and stop all trade, except for food and medicines.

Putin must be forced to return the land in Ukraine and Georgia that he has seized illegally. If he won't, the Russian economy must be driven to bankruptcy.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

My worry with the sanctions is that they will just make a bad situation worse.

The UN enforced much much stricter sanctions on Iraq, a much much weaker country, for over 12 years and despite destroying that country`s economy they had no political effect.

Its pretty far-fetched to believe that the same mechanism, only much weaker, will work when applied to a much larger country like Russia that is much better prepared to withstand them. Likely this will just further push Russia away from the West and into a closer relationship with China, which doesn`t really benefit anyone (except China). The war in Ukraine will probably not be affected by them at all.

Overall I am very pessemistic about the whole thing.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

My worry with the sanctions is that they will just make a bad situation worse.

As it has been said before, at least one side effect of western sanctions takes place already. A growing wave of rude anti-americanism in Russia and some slavic countries. I predict burning American flags nearby embassies and rotten eggs and tomatoes thrown to walls and windows.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Those poor families who have bodies of loved ones rotting in the sun because these two groups can't wait a few days to kill each other. Disgraceful.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

SidekickJul. 31, 2014 - 11:03AM JST

My worry with the sanctions is that they will just make a bad situation worse.

As it has been said before, at least one side effect of western sanctions takes place already. A growing wave of rude anti-americanism in Russia and some slavic countries. I predict burning American flags nearby embassies and rotten eggs and tomatoes thrown to walls and windows.

Are you again spinning your Russian propaganda on JT?

There is an uprising roar against Putin. Your hate towards Americans needs some professional attention.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1375181/maria-putin-flees-putins-daughter-flees-holland-as-more-blame-for-mh17-falls-on-him/

0 ( +6 / -6 )

There seems to be a great contradiction in allowing Scotland to have a referendum on leaving the UK but not allowing regions of Ukraine the same freedom to decide their own sovereignty. Let them vote in a free and open referendum!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Are you again spinning your Russian propaganda on JT?

Once again : this is my opinion, not a "propaganda". If you aren't able to find any strong arguments to back your statements, that's your your personal problems.

Your hate towards Americans needs some professional attention.

You don't deserve even hatred. Only strong enemy deserves either respect or hatred. As for "professional attention", I know that most of your countrymen are nothing short of informants. LOL.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

M3M3M3Jul. 31, 2014 - 10:16AM JST We don't need intelligence analysts to tell us that Russia has annexed part of another sovreign state contrary to all international norms.

And who is that "WE"? ))))

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I predict burning American flags nearby embassies and rotten eggs and tomatoes thrown to walls and windows.

I don't know, those tomatoes are going to be pretty expensive if they can't be imported from Europe.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Remember a few weeks ago when the US was posting daily satellite movements of Russian troops on the Ukrainian border? Well, where are those same satellite pictures now of the airplane? Hmmmm I guess I'd better check Facebook cuz that's ALL the US have provided, oh, except for that google map picture from 2010 with some lines drawn it.

All I'm asking for is some evidence. The US has it, but won't release it. Geee, I wonder why? All this anti-Putin stuff is just childish.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

All I'm asking for is some evidence. The US has it, but won't release it. Geee, I wonder why?

And why Ükranian Army is trying to shell a territory nearby a crash site? Why they are moving armoured vehicles there? At least rebels provided a safe access to international team of OSCE and found "black boxes", evacuated bodies of victims. Sure, that after arriving of Ukranians, the crash site of MN17 will be looking like a lunar surface. But the USA will sing that boring song about "Putin culpability". The main problem is that EU became an American puppet without ability to act independently. They could command Poroshenko to stop his troops and cease fire immediately. Yet they did not do it. The conclusion : they aren't interested in fair investigation of MH17 accident.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

@Nanraayashimunitarinai

Well,... 'We' means everyone, including the Russian lawmakers who voted to approve the annexation.

I understand that your goal is to give a counterpoint to everything other people say about Russia, but your position cannot be that the annexation is not real but actually a conspiracy created by the west. Check an updated Russian map if you don't believe me.

@FizzBit

I don't know about the other intel but I can speak to your satellite question.

To take a high-res photo from a satellite (like google earth) it needs to be in low earth orbit, so you only have a few minute window to take a photo every couple of hours everytime you circle directly over the target. It would be extraordinary if the satellite was flying over at the exact time the plane was shot down. So there is most likely no photo that they are withholding.

There is no camera powerful enough to allow a geosynchronous satelite (35,000 km away) to just hover over a target on earth like a constant eye in the sky.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

M3

While you make a good point, I'm sure the NSA/.gov have more than one satellite and has full coverage of this area 24/7. Wouldn't you if you could?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Existing contracts are excluded from the arms embargo, allowing France to move ahead with delivery of a warship it has already sold for the Russian navy.

A big mistake 1, It could have been banned for the arms embargo.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Fizzbit: " the crash site was safe and secured and investigators had spoken to the East-Ukrianian freedom fighters saying they're very helpful and professional, until the Ukraine army started to attack."

Hahahaha.... 'freedom fighters'! What a laugh. Stealing blackboxes and bodies and not returning them. Admitting they shot down a plane on twitter and then deleting the messages (darn those screen shots that are the smoking gun!). Saying the Ukraine put dead bodies on the flight in Amsterdam. Admitting they had a Buk system before retracting the statement.

Sidekick: "Once again : this is my opinion, not a "propaganda"

Ummm... no. Just the other day you were calling the US terrorists and referring to Obama as a "semi-educated" black man while praising the separatists and saying they have done no wrong but that it's all the Ukraine and the West's fault, and they are using propaganda against an innocent nation (Russia). THAT is pure propoganda, my friend, not opinion.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Hahahaha.... 'freedom fighters'! What a laugh. Stealing blackboxes and bodies and not returning them.

THAT is pure propoganda, my friend, not opinion.

You have called my opinion as "propaganda" while at the same time posted a plain lie about "stolen black boxes".

Admitting they shot down a plane on twitter and then deleting the messages (darn those screen shots that are the smoking gun!). Saying the Ukraine put dead bodies on the flight in Amsterdam. Admitting they had a Buk system before retracting the statement.

Rumours and lie again let alone childish term as "smoking gun".

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Stealing blackboxes

What BurningBush said, plus, and this is a BIG plus, what about the flight tower recordings and files from Kiev airport? Why was the plane diverted over the conflict area? Confiscated and never heard from again by the Ukrainian Security Service. These are my questions. Does that not raise any red flags for you? What you're referencing mostly is the first spin attempt by the Ukes and the US. They've pretty much been debunked by now.

Furthermore, Russia, the only country TO provide satellite images, showed the BUK system in Uranian held territory. But don't expect to see this on the BBC.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

BurningBush

Thank you for the precise figures of casualties

These figures seem to be precise, but they are not. It is official tally from Kiev military authorities, hugely whitewashed. Kiev regime simply does not want to tell its people and the world about its losses, sometimes it just has no idea about the situation on the battlefield. Now near the hamlet of Izvarino combat groups of three brigades (24, 72 and 79th) are comletelely cut off from the rest of the Ukrainian forces for at least several days, have no supply of ammunition, food and water and slowly dying (or soldiers defecting to the nearby border with Russia and surrender). Besides, apart from regular army units there are several neo-nazi volunteer battalions ("Azov", "Aidar", "Donbass" and several others). These SS stormtroopers have almost zero military training and suffer particularly high losses, and military authorities don't count them, because they are not regulars and out of army control.

About civilian losses: http://rbth.com/news/2014/07/30/twenty_seven_people_killed_in_horlivka_in_past_threedays-_city_hall_38646.html

About the situation in the region: http://rusvesna.su/english"

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

When I first heard of the Ukrainian/Russian problems, I thought it best if Japan did not get involved. But since things moving in this direction, and Japan is a member of the G7 and has obligations as such, I guess it's right for Japan to impose sanctions along with the other members.

Russia could be diplomatic and try to resolve things peacefully. The government has chosen to act as thugs instead.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Russia will slowly be isolated more and more from the international community. They did it to themselves.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Russian economic growth, already downgraded from 3.5% to 1.5%, will likely be zero this year. And keystone projects such as the Kerch Strait Bridge will not be realized due to constricted financing, while others, such as Arctic drilling projects, will be halted due to restrictions on technology transfers.

How long this continues is entirely up to Putin, but to pretend that these sanctions will hot have serious effects on the Russian economy is preposterous.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The Putin fan club is out in force here, citing Russian media reports as "evidence" to back up their claims. But, alas, Russian media is completely controlled by the crook Putin; any dissenters are jailed.

And if Putin's ratings have "never been higher", why does he need to rig elections? Statistical analysis of Russian election results prove that Putin has stuffed ballot boxes across the country, with some places recording a turnout of over 100%. Despite his "tough guy" posing, Putin is nothing but a coward, scared of allowing the Russian people to vote freely.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Why is everyone scared of Putin so much that they need to call him names and discredit him all the way?By the way, there is a saying, "the smaller the dog the more it barks".Im not even sure obama was elected by US people. Dont you think that pentagon has at least some brains and would use very smart methods to put their pawn in charge to control the country? And just to make sure nobody thinks twice it should be a black man, just to cause a huge wow and dumb the brains from thinking.And please dont go barking about my "russki propaganda" cause first, its just an opinion and second, you are doin the same.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Typical European conflict, from the point of view of Poland:

Europe: "Russia, stop picking on Ukraine or... sanctions!"

Russia: "Oh ya? Try and stop me!", punches Poland, who was standing nearby.

Poland: "Ow!"

Europe: "Stop that, Russia! We're serious! Poland, punch Russia back! Now!"

Poland: "But... Russia is bigger than me and I need imports from Russia..."

Europe: "You can trade with Finland"

Finland: "Hey!"

Russia: "What do I care...", punches Ukraine, starts picking on Latvia and Belarus

Europe: "Stop it Russia, or we'll put army bases in the forests and fields of Poland!"

Poland: "Whaaa...? Russia... could you... maybe..."

Russia: "Maybe what? You have something to say, squirt?"

Poland: "nothing..."

Europe: "Grow a spine, Poland, or we'll exclude you."

Poland: "But I paid my club dues and stuff... and even survived the financial crisis unharmed."

Europe: "Yea, speaking of that, you have too much money. You're sponsoring this war."

Poland: "War...? not again..."

USA: "War? We're in! Wait for us, wait for us!"

Poland assumes fetal position, praying not to go through the traumatic events of the past again.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

You don't deserve even hatred. Only strong enemy deserves either respect or hatred. As for "professional attention", I know that most of your countrymen are nothing short of informants. LOL.

Personally, I think you might be a little jealous.

@Igor

Why is everyone scared of Putin so much that they need to call him names and discredit him all the way?By the way, there is a saying, "the smaller the dog the more it barks".Im not even sure obama was elected by US people. Dont you think that pentagon has at least some brains and would use very smart methods to put their pawn in charge to control the country? And just to make sure nobody thinks twice it should be a black man, just to cause a huge wow and dumb the brains from thinking.And please dont go barking about my "russki propaganda" cause first, its just an opinion and second, you are doin the same.

I'm surely NO fan of Obama whatsoever, but after reading that, I just have to say "WOW!" Serously, WOW! ROFL.

@fizz

All I'm asking for is some evidence. The US has it, but won't release it. Geee, I wonder why? All this anti-Putin stuff is just childish.

So now the NSA has to share everything with us regular civilians. If you don't believe it, it's ok as long as the NSA, CIA and everyone else that matters is involved ultimately that is what counts, not what us lowly people think. So I believe the people that are getting paid and are experts in the field.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

http://rt.com/news/174448-malaysian-pm-mh17-statement/

Colonel Mohamed Sakri of Malaysian National Security Council said that the two black boxes were "in good condition.”

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Im not even sure obama was elected by US people.

Igor, you can count yourself amongst a majority of Republicans on that point.

...it should be a black man, just to cause a huge wow and dumb the brains from thinking.

Again, welcome to the GOP! - not only for context but for syntax! Good way to slip racist remarks past the mods, if unwittingly.

This still does not change the fact that Putin has led Russia to a very bad place.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Again, welcome to the GOP! - not only for context but for syntax! Good way to slip racist remarks past the mods, if unwittingly.

Why is it, that the party of tolerance is so intolerant of other peoples POV?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Good way to slip racist remarks past the mods

When pro-Russian rebels have been called "drank gorillas", "thugs", "scums" it was OK. When Putin was called "rat", "swine", "murderer" it was also OK. But when Obama is called "dumb" it is racism. LOL.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sidekick, you don' t understand how racism works. Here's a quick hint: Mentioning race as a cause of events when it is not actually a cause is racism. For example, pro-Russian rebels have been called "drank gorillas" because that is what observers have noted (and may be why they obliviously confused a passenger with a military plane); Putin has been called "rat", "swine", "murderer" not because of his race but because his actions cause some to feel so about him.

Now, if I state, "Putin will only back down in the face of impending, overwhelming defeat, just like a rat," I'm stating my opinion, not being racist; if I state, "Putin, like most Slavic people, are immune to logic," that would be racism. And I would never stand behind such a vile (the latter) remark.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Laguna, thank you for clarification.

Occam's razor leads us to the Ukrainian military. They had the means, opportunity and motive.

All 3 necessary factors are present, a Ukrainian BUK, placed in or near rebel territory took out the plane.

I'd add that they also downed Russian TU-154 in 2001 by S-200 missile, during military exercises . But the US side as well, as Europuppets prefer to cover their "good SOBs from Kiev", spitting upon both fair investigation of the accident and memory of victims.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Funny the Russians here are trying to put a POSITIVE SPIN to all of this, yes Putin is cool, he is so brave, picking on a tiny country like the Ukraine! Idiots! Does anybody trust the KGB?? NO!! Not even the Russians trust their own KGB in a nice suit, Vladimir Putin. Nice try to pass your so called OPINIONS here but sad truth is that NOBODY trusts Russia! Holland is in a big mess because their national oil company, SHELL is getting BILLIONS of $$$ from Russia, for helping the Russians get more oil out of SIBERIA (Russia) so even if the average Dutch is angry at Russia, $$$ talks and Holland will do NOTHING to JEOPARDIZE that sweet, sweet $$$$ NEW RUSSIAN OIL $$$$!! So Let the French keep selling arms to t Russians, and the Dutch bend over to keep getting $$$ from Russia, right?? Will China and India actually love Russia?? Of course not, INDIANS and CHINESE only love $$$$ and they just want to keep good relations with Russia to avoid any wars. As long as RUSSIA keeps the new OIL $$$ flowing, I really doubt that the UK etc...will boycott Russia and Russia will buy potatoes and cabbage from any other country that grows these vegetables. As for now, Putin will keep enjoying his $$$, power and fame, but it will NOT LAST!! Russky amigos, study the concept of KARMA, oh yes! Da?? KARMA!! Russia is making really BAD KARMA and just like that idiot GEORGE W.BUSH, making bad, bad KARMA, means OUCH!!!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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