Mugabe vows 'war' to keep opposition out of power

Sunday 15th June, 07:10 AM JST

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tclh at 09:28 AM JST - 15th June

Mugabe is learning FAST from Burmese generals who learned by heart from Mao's "power comes from barrel of a gun".Maybe the change of this situation will wait until US has its new president.
bebert at 11:51 AM JST - 15th June

Ian Smith, vindicated. Rhodesia, vindicated. The bastards made their bed, so why does anyone really care? Tomorrow it will be Angola or Tanzania or the Congo. The West tried to help (in its own way), the Africans rejected it. Let's just keep the Africa - Western Europe/America relationship on a business level and not meddle in their internal affairs.
Madverts at 06:42 PM JST - 15th June

"The bastards made their bed, so why does anyone really care?"

Probably because lots and lots of people will die in the event of a civil war.
Triumvere at 08:33 PM JST - 15th June

"The bastards"... which bastards? The over 50% of the population that voted Mugabe out of office? I don't think its fair to blame the people of Zimbabwe for their plight. That falls squarely on Mr. Mugabe and his cronies.
Madverts at 08:44 PM JST - 15th June

""The bastards"... which bastards? The over 50% of the population that voted Mugabe out of office?"

And they're the ones that dared to go out and vote in the face of intense pressure by the ruling party, with the military actively engaged in mugabe's re-election campaign.

Then again, we're discussing this with someone who feels a white supremacist has been "vindicated".

Heh, never a good position to be in!
Triumvere at 10:36 PM JST - 15th June

What I think he's trying to get at is that Zimbabweans' specific support of the land redistribution fiasco, and their general support of Mugabe over the years has brought them to their current plight.

Now, I think the land redistribution was unjust (not to mention a rather obvious disaster). However, there are quite a factors that need consideration. Its hard to argue agaisnt the fact that the blacks were screwed over by colonialism, and the legacy of colonializm continues to disadvantage them today. Its easy to see how they would have supported the redistribution and it is possible to argue they deserved some sort of repairations from a moral standpoint. Its also easy to see how they would have supported Mugabe, who is considered (whatever the truth of the matter) to be a revolutionary Hero. By all accounts, he was not always the tyrant he is today, but has become so gradually over the years, becoming ever more irrational and power hungry. His grip has slowly tightened as well, first with propaganda, then with vote rigging, then with threats and violence, then wielding starvation as a weapon, and now with the specter of open warfare and genocide. Zimbabweans have not been free for years, and whatever their complicity in the initial decline, it seems unfair to blame them for being able to extract themselves from their current conditions. The tremendous bravery shown by the MDC and its supporters puts to shame so called African "leaders" who have done less than nothing to improve the situation. Ditto for the UN and world powers. The world needs to take notice, and to act.
Madverts at 08:40 PM JST - 16th June

"The world needs to take notice, and to act."

I predict the world will do nothing as usual and that if Mugabe's plan for "re-election" fails to work, there's a good chance of a bitter civil war.

It doesn't take much for an African country to end up in bloody fundie feuding....look what happened to "peaceful" Kenya.
Triumvere at 10:00 PM JST - 16th June

Mugabe's got the Army, the guns, and the muscle. I don't think there will be much in the way of a civil war. Perhaps a "genocide."
unscrejects at 11:09 PM JST - 16th June

PLEASE LISTEN TO ME

As I've been saying for ten years now: Mugabe has been wronged and he is going to make them pay. Zimbabwe is going to get a massive killing. And it will not be political,tribal or any of that mumbo jumbo the 'europeans' love to use in concealing their dirty deeds in southern Africa. Zimbabwe's distruction is the biggest flop by the multi-national criminal clan - Standard Bank, AA, BAT - some Japanese individuals too. Simply to punish Mugabe for his intervention in the Congo they destroyed the economy of Zimbabwe - call the British embassy in Tokyo and ask about their hand in it circa Nov 1997. Call the British embassy in Harare and ask them about my fax revealing that I was aware of their hand in plotting the destruction of ZImbabwe's economy with the help of Mandela, Mbeki and the usual SADC suspects. I know Zimbabweans and the crises. There is no way what-so-ever that Tsvangirai will be allowed to rule the country. The people aware of the plot are so numerous and their experiences with the hardship he brought through his treason... god help him. I have not returned to ZImbabwe for 20 years because the very same white people that call for so-called rights in ZImbabwe have threatened to kill me every year - simply for going to college in America. My crime? Fraternizing with whites in Texas. Did you know that it took a middle-eastern prince suing another Arab to reveal to us(Zimbabweans) that diamonds were in fact being mined in Zimbabwe? And in huge amounts too. Regardless of what the politcal morons say about Mbeki's so-called silence, the truth is that the minute he opens his mouth to tell the truth about Zimbabwe the whites in Jo'burg will shoot him dead! The only good Mbeki can do about ZImbabwe is to snitch on Mandela and his connections in destroying Zimbabwe, other than that there is zero he can say without Mugabe having his throat. Mugabe knows what each one of them did in 1997.
Madverts at 12:01 AM JST - 17th June

reject,

So what about the election rigging, rounding up of the opposition leaders or supporters, beating of the opposition, giving the army direct orders to hassle those not voting Zanu PF.......?

Can I put all this down to ignorance too?
Madverts at 12:08 AM JST - 17th June

"Mugabe's got the Army, the guns, and the muscle."

Perhaps - I saw first hand what happened in Kenya. Happy people turning into blood-thirsty savages because of third world tribalism.

If there's one place that did need a regime change, then here's one.
Triumvere at 08:37 PM JST - 17th June

unscrejects,

I would be curious to know how you blame the west for the collapse of the farming industry in Zimbabwe; While foreign powers could certainly conspire to isolate Zimbabwe economically (to the great detriment of the people), I fail to see how they could have destroyed the internal agriculture of the greatest food producer in Africa. It seems to me that there is no-one to blame but Mugabe; he took the farms from the competant white farmers, but failed to replace them with competant black farmers. There is no reason to believe that blacks should fair worse at farming than whits, given the proper training. But yet, Mugabe seems to have distributed them to cronies rather than farmers. And if their were no competant black farmers available, would it have not been better to do the land redistibution differently?

Lack of food is the number one issue in Zimbabwe right now; it over shadows everything. Please explain to me, if you disagree with the above analysis, why the people of Zimbabwe cannot eat.
unscrejects at 03:44 PM JST - 19th June

Madverts: There's no hiding what is being done there (election violations etc.). The problem is that wht we have in Zimbabwe is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. The MDC is not what the BBC have made it out to be. They are nasty unionists! Brutal! Bank rolled by COSATU another unsavory bunch. These guys up to Nov 1997 controlled the War Veterans. In fact the WV's were there 'Pinckerton men'. Ask Trudy Stevens - google her.

Triumvere: The competent white farmers crashed the agricultural industry deliberatlyfrom Oct 1997 - I have a copy of the letter used by Standard Chartered Bank of South Africa which quite plainly told them "It's an offer you can't refuse - lay down your ploughs for 18 months or else we call-in your loans..."sic On farming the real farmer has been black for the past fifty years!. The white has merely delivered the seed and collected the money from the Farmers Co-op. The Kutsaga Research Station that proved all the seeds was run entirely by blacks - with university degrees - ask Allen Savory - google him. Mugabe's beef with the farmers is that they grew tobacco only from the late 80's causing Zimbabwe to become an importer of food. When he tried to persuade them to parcel out some land for food crops they called London, burnt their harvests on the eve of delivery, doused wheat and maize in DDT... we're not talking about angels here. Zimbabwe is the most dysfunctional nation there ever was and ever will be. Somebody should try calling Suzuki Muneo and asking him about his part in the plot... If Iraq was a yarn, Zimbabwe is the sheep that grew the fleece.
Madverts at 08:19 PM JST - 19th June

rejects,

I'm sorry but your defence of Mugabe is laughable:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7463034.stm

Mugabe is a demented fool who has squandered the once flourishing economy to the highest inflation in the world.

He needs to go. A long time ago.
unscrejects at 10:37 PM JST - 19th June

Madverts: Laugh all you want. I'm not defending anybody. I'm stating the facts about my country. He's squandered nothing! The carpet was pulled from underneath him. Zimbabwe had an artificial economy - by which I mean, all farming was by law restricted to members of the white community, all mines are operated from Rhodesia by the same multinationals that are behind the coup - the same bunch that lost mining 'rights' in Zaire when Mugabe defeated the Rwandan army. Haven't you ever wondered why no white farmer has sued Mugabe for so-called damages? He has all the written evidence against them and it clearly implicates Peter Hain, Tony Blair, Claire Short, Robin Cook, Mandela, Chissano and a bunch of other thugs. Which court in the world will dare make a fool of itself? All the transcripts of communications between London and Harare are available - the Russians. Only two years ago Britain relented that it had miscalculated the depth of Russian involvement in Zimbabwe. Hey, look at it this way - Mugabe was the one that exposed DPRK's mandrax and US dollar bill counterfeit distribution system. Harare has been an asset for the US in its war on terror - thanks to Mugabe. Simon Mann was picked up in Harare because somebody repaid a favor to Mugabe. And let's not forget that CNN was hunting for that Boeing for two years! Executive Outcomes were using it - with Mandela's blessing. There is no saint in Africa. Mugabe is untouchable. Lay a finger on him and watch the suicides in London and Pretoria - the dossier will be published. Sir I have suffered for 22 years. Nobody in Zimbabwe lifted a finger to arrest my persecutors. I lost family members, friends... a whole country. Defend anybody in ZImbabwe? Hell no! Oh, and Gaddafi lodged an official complaint about me to Mugabe in 1987. I'll die without seeing my family again. I couldn't careless about who lives or dies in ZImbabwe. But what I can tell you sir, is that I know where this is all leading to,. Unless the world wakes up to the charade Rwanda is going to look like a picnic.