Fort Hood suspect was told: 'There's something wrong with you'

Sunday 08th November, 11:00 AM JST

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yabits at 08:52 PM JST - 9th November

Yabits, there is nothing wrong with putting ones religion before their countries needs within reason. America does allow this to work with peoples beliefs within reason. If a satanist believes they need to drink the blood of a baby to honor their religion should they be allowed to do it? Of course not! Because it over steps what the US and other western and many other countries understand to be a violation of basic human rights. That is where the line is drawn.

Those words "within reason" open up a large gray area. There are many examples of the state barring forms of religious expression and belief -- the use of peyote and polygamy -- which don't harm others as in your extreme example. But, back on topic...

There would have been no problem if Hasan didn't believe in the wars that all he should have done was just state his reasons, just gone AWOL and just had to deal with a dishonorable discharge maybe some prison time in regards to breach of contract or w/e the military puts on him.

So that's his choice? The military bears no responsiblity for screening someone unfit for service, and looking the other way when the unfitness manifests itself on many occasions? If they are going to be that irresponsible, why would people be surprised when events like this happen?
yabits at 09:09 PM JST - 9th November

The trouble with this guy is that he either did not understand or practice core Muslim belief. And its the same with all Muslims commiting similar acts, and Christians too.

The "Christian" acts that come to mind are the slayings of abortion doctors, and bombings of clinics where abortions are performed. And starting wars of convenience where so many innocent people are killed -- and was the action at the root of Hasan's difficulties.

The irony of your statement comes with the reminder of the billions of U.S. dollars that have gone to fund the spread of some of the most radical strains of Islam in some of the places we are now fighting.

I totally agree with the statement you made. Both Christians and Muslims have denied the roots of their respective faiths and are actually following the influence of the "one" who would have all of humanity at each others throats.
yabits at 09:23 PM JST - 9th November

Even better than that. First, the US military spent a few hundred thousand bucks to educate him. As a thank you, they get a spontaneous Jihad attack that kills over a dozen people.

You appear to be saying that the US military put a higher value on trying to recoup its investment in an unfit soldier than it did on the safety of its other troops. Not only were they not prepared to honor Hasan's own admission of unfitness, they were going to ship him right out where he would have to confront the demons that had taken hold of him.

As another thread puts it, when the U.S. misuses its power to the extent it has, and starts wars of convenience which kill thousands of innocent people, perhaps it should not surprise us that this is the thanks we get.
SuperLib at 10:14 PM JST - 9th November

Yabits: The "Christian" acts that come to mind are the slayings of abortion doctors and bombings of clinics where abortions are performed.

I think those acts are similar, where one takes a radical form of religion that leads to premeditated murder, but it doesn't really describe the problem which is the sheer number of jihadists vs. doctor killers. Obviously there is something that is creating this type of mentality in a lot more Muslims than everyone else.

I can't say I know a lot about all the different religions in the world, but like I've said before I think Islam more of a total commitment than other religions. If someone is already in the mindset to completely give himself to a religion then maybe it's easier to manipulate that individual into doing something like this when good religion goes bad. Add to that the fact that there are those who actively seek to recruit people down that wrong path, they train them, etc. I'm guessing there probably aren't too people using Christianity to recruit others into blowing up abortion clinics.

I know you like to push the US military and war angle but it doesn't add up. Over the last few years the number of Westerners killed by suicide bombers is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Muslims killed by suicide bombers. Look at Pakistan, look at Mumbai. Suicide bombers in Iraq don't target Americans, they target Muslims. We've seen attacks in Turkey, Egypt, assassinations in Kuwait and Iran...all targeting Muslims. If anything, attacks on Westerners is the exception rather than the rule. I think people who are quick to label Islam as the problem don't take the time to see that Muslims are suffering from radical Islam more than anyone else. Islam itself isn't the problem, it's those who manipulate others into their perverted form of Islam.
sailwind at 10:45 PM JST - 9th November

I have to say it,

Islamic Radicals are self- loathing individuals and sexual prudes that need to get laid.

That is the root of the their violence, my opinion.
HonestDictator at 10:49 AM JST - 10th November

@Yabits. I'm sorry I don't quite understand your way of thinking. Hasan had a CHOICE, and the one he chose cost people their lives and made him a murderer! What about that do you not understand? Now even if he gets prison it will be for LIFE. Think really hard about that.
HonestDictator at 10:55 AM JST - 10th November

Did an interesting search on Google. Take the words Extremist, Radical and try and attach them to every religion in the world and do a search. Amazingly there is only one that seems to come up a lot more than others.
numbskull at 11:19 AM JST - 10th November

HonestDictator-Did an interesting search on Google. Take the words Extremist, Radical and try and attach them to every religion in the world and do a search. Amazingly there is only one that seems to come up a lot more than others.

A lot of it is choice of wording really. Its just that Christians avoid tying the words to Christianity. I am sure Muslims play similar semantical games. Take the Branch Davidians for example. David Koresh claimed to be a prophet in the Judeo-Christian tradition and led a compound armed to the teeth. Anyone calling him and his extremists Christians? Nope. But they fit the bill. How about Timothy McVeigh setting off a bomb in Oklahoma City as revenge for the killings of the Branch Davidians? Is anyone calling it religious extremist terrorism? Nope. Even the Protestant on Catholic violence in and around Northern Ireland is termed more a political struggle than a religious one. But if you wanted to call it Christian extremism, it would be easy to make the case.

The other part of it is that in the west, our terrorists and mass murderers don't wear religion on their sleaves. But if they did, and all claimed to be Christians and yelled "God is great!" would you consider them to be real and true Christians? Probably not. So why do you take these guerrilla types who claim to be Muslim as serious Muslims? Why does the press? You are letting crazy people dicate to you and so are they.

Point of fact is that even Muslims are confused these days. The suicide bomber mystique is a fad in the Islamic world right now. Its become a part of culture, but not religion. Statements like yours only add to the confusion. We need to assist Muslims in denouncing the suicide bomber mentality by pointing out that it is against Islam rather than constantly making the false claim that it is. It makes an us vs. them mentality that actually helps the terrorists and paints us as enemies of Islam and it confuses Muslims. We all need to stop helping the terrorists asap.
yabits at 08:49 PM JST - 10th November

Obviously there is something that is creating this type of mentality in a lot more Muslims than everyone else.

At any point in time, the statistics will show that among religions there will be one that appears to have more internal strife than there is to be found among others. Because a relative handful of people are able to pervert and twist some of the precepts of a religion to find justification for heinous acts does not mean there is something wrong with the religion.

The question might be better put another way: What is there about the mentality and outlook of a people that renders them more susceptible to adopting a violent philosophy, or in seeing violence as providing the answer to their problems? (Using religion to justify violence against others is not exclusive to Islam.) Part of the answers can be found in long-standing animosities created by the colonial rulers of many of the places you named. (Such as putting a minority group in power over majority groups as was done by the British in Iraq.)

But to frame this as "something wrong with Islam" is completely wrong. Just as it would be wrong to frame the US Civil War and the European theater of WWII as "something wrong with the religion of Christ."
yabits at 09:04 PM JST - 10th November

I'm sorry I don't quite understand your way of thinking. Hasan had a CHOICE, and the one he chose cost people their lives and made him a murderer! What about that do you not understand?

Here's an example of a right-winger in a similar situation: Prior to starting the war in Iraq, Bush said that Saddam had "forced war on him." Of course, you know and I know that Bush always had the choice to back out right? But there was something ingrained in Bush's character that would not allow him to back out. So he made the choice to launch war and cost a lot of innocent people their lives.

War affects the minds of people in very severe and unpredictable ways. Hasan had to learn to deal with trying to help many of the victims of Bush's choice to visit war on innocent people -- as well as wrestle with his own demons that only became more tormenting the closer he got to that war.

To the extent that war -- especially wars perceived as purely discretionary and therefore unjust -- damages the minds of otherwise healthy people; to the extent that Hasan's damaged mind was become more and more evident to the soldiers around him, the victims of the shootings at Fort Hood are every bit victims of the large-scale war that Bush chose for the U.S.
SuperLib at 12:03 AM JST - 11th November

Yabits: At any point in time, the statistics will show that among religions there will be one that appears to have more internal strife than there is to be found among others.

Appears to have more internal strife? Appears? Am I missing reports of Christians killing in the name of a perverted form of Christianity? Did I miss a dozen abortion clinic bombings over the past 60 days? Both exist, but for you to claim that the difference in sheer numbers is inconsequential is a sign of radicalism on your part.

Because a relative handful of people are able to pervert and twist some of the precepts of a religion to find justification for heinous acts does not mean there is something wrong with the religion.

And here's where we agree, if you'd only let us agree. But in reality our agreement is of no value since you're only discussing this topic to bring up your main point:

Part of the answers can be found in long-standing animosities created by the colonial rulers of many of the places you named

This is, was, and always will be your point to make regardless of how the conversation begins. This is the only place where you will allow the conversation to end. You hate the West, you've radicalized yourself just as radical Muslims have, and you have shut your mind to any and all evidence that does not support the conclusion that you want to hear. At this point I recommend that you join the nearest Mosque and start training recruits. You aren't defending Islam, you're promoting radical Islam.
yabits at 03:25 AM JST - 11th November

This is the only place where you will allow the conversation to end. You hate the West, you've radicalized yourself just as radical Muslims have...

I happen to hate evil and injustice. To the extent that evil and injustice have been committed in my name as a fellow American, I speak out against that. As an American, I feel it more my duty to sweep in front of my own house first. If I have "radicalized myself" it is only because I see where a lack being just and merciful leads.

Those who want make up and to apply some mythical 60-day rule and pretend that history does not matter will find it difficult to accept that most of what occurs today is a reaction to what happened in the past.

History is much longer than what your picayune beliefs will allow you to accept in how others perceive it to be. This is the arrogance of the typical American. The American imperative seems to be "Just get over it" (or "that shouldn't matter now because I say it shouldn't") whenever clear evidence of past and current American/Western wrongdoing is brought to light.

Until, that is, Americans get their collective panties in a bind when something wrong that has been done unto them. Then it's "We will bomb you into oblivion," torture, preemptive wars, etc. And the cycle continues.

A very wise book, purported by many in the West to be their guide, talks of "reaping what you sow," and that "the sins of the fathers shall be visited" on generations yet to be born. Had people within the military establishment been wise and merciful in their dealings with Mr. Hasan, this tragedy might have been very easily avoided.

But Americans want to sow the wind and whine and complain when the whirilwind comes for them.
SuperLib at 01:19 PM JST - 11th November

Yep, you're a radical who justifies Jihad against America.
victimcrat at 05:28 PM JST - 11th November

"Had people within the military establishment been wise and merciful in their dealings with Mr. Hasan, this tragedy might have been very easily avoided."

You are from another planet.
Hirota56 at 06:55 PM JST - 13th November

Do we even need psychiatrists? I am a health care provider(oral surgeon) and felt most psychiatrists are more psycho than the patients they are treating.