Muslims outnumber Catholics in 2006 for 1st time ever

Monday 31st March, 11:38 AM JST

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outhousejt at 08:32 PM JST - 31st March

The same people who used to be anti Semetic in the past are these days Islampohobic. The idea of Monotheism makes people close minded.
Alphaape at 08:42 PM JST - 31st March

Plenty of interesting reads. Yes Christianity made possible the age of Enlightenment, but just as with any organization, certain people where the ones who were against it. If you were to look closely, one of their main reasons to do so was for their own self interests. It is not too good to have an educated populace and free thinkers when you are a king and want to keep you own power by keeping those below you in the dark. In that case religion or the non religon (i.e. communism, (there were poor communist and rich communist, look at Cuba now or the demographics of the old USSR)).

As far as outhousejt comments, yes if you really look into the stories of the Old Testament, you do see similarities in the different religions of the Near East from Babylonian flood stories, to the death and resurrection of Horous.

I am a practicing Christian, and hope one day to go to Heaven. I know I have fallen short of what I am required to do, but I personally don't try to impose my religious beliefs on others. If you don't believe well that is fine by me, just as long as you treat me morally and just. But, there in lies the paradox, who defines moral and just. If it is in your nature to go around and "screw everyone in the back" to get ahead in life, then in your opinion, you are being moral and just. I think that religion at least tries to lay a framework or patterns on what one should expect from others living in a society. They bring in a higher being as a supreme law giver to justify what is moral and just.

As for me, I will continue to be sheep minded, and try to do right, and feel remorse when I screw people over intentionally and unintentionally. I will continue to believe in my beliefs, and let you believe or chose not to believe in yours.
Zaphod at 08:46 PM JST - 31st March

Outhouseit: [[[[The same people who used to be anti Semetic in the past are these days Islampohobic. ]]]]

That is a fascinating idea, considering that antisemitism is part and parcel of islamic doctrine. You are saying that the muslim clergy is islamophobic?
Zaphod at 08:50 PM JST - 31st March

Alphabeee:

[[[As far as outhousejt comments, yes if you really look into the stories of the Old Testament, you do see similarities in the different religions of the Near East from Babylonian flood stories, to the death and resurrection of Horous. ]]]

To point out the obvious: 1. The old Testament has been moderated by the New Testament, and the hippie-like Jesus figure is the opposite of the Arabic warlord that islam considers as the "perfect man". 2. Christians might think that the Old Testament is inspired by God, or some such, but nobody in his right mind thinks it is the literal word of God. Islam is stuck with the dogma that Koran was dictated directly and must not be doubted. (As it say in sura 2.2).

Apples and oranges. Islam has never had a reformation and arguably is unable to have one. How can it if you are not allowed to interpret the book?
Alphaape at 09:05 PM JST - 31st March

Zaphod, Christianity and Jesus predate the arrival of Muhammad and the spread of Islam. Many of the old testament stories are found in the Koran (Adam & Eve, Abraham (the father is Ismael, whom Islam and Muhammad descend from), and just like it was the angel Gabriel who recited the Koran to Muhammand, it was also he who gave Mary notification that she was to give birth to Jesus.

Yes Christians do think the Bible (Old and New Testaments) are inspired by God. The current Bible (King James Version) was the result of a series of iterations until finally decided upon at the Nicean council (it was in a differnt language I know and not English, but I am just compressing history here to make up for space). But there are other stories and books that were not put into the Bible. There was the recent example of the book of Judas, that goes into the life of Judas Iscarot (the one who betraye Jesus on the night he was apprehended by the Romans) and there are other books that talk about the life of Jesus before his 30th year, and other books on the events that happened in the Garden of Eden (like Eve was not the first woman, but Lilith was. Why was she written out of the Bible? Instead of eating the apple she spoke Gods real name, and for that she was bansihed as a spirit, that is found in the ancient Hebrew writings that are not part of the Torah).

So, bottom line, Yes Christians do believe that the Bible is inspired by God, and we try to live up to the interpretations of it the best way we can. Yes I know now that my neighbor does not have an "ass" that I should not covet, but those base line emotions that the Bible says we should try to control and moderate are still with us today, and to me that is what makes the Bible work for me.

Moderator: All readers back on topic please.
skipthesong at 09:55 PM JST - 31st March

and we try to live up to the interpretations of it the best way we can" That's noble, it really it, but the problem with any religion is its desire to expand and to set forth rules that hinder anyone from speaking about inconsistencies and even going as far as a punishment of death in many many many cases. While I haven't heard of any Christian church doing that in recent times, I do know they have done in the past and we all know that in Islam, punishment of death is still in play..

I could careless what anyone believes in, in fact I can even praise someone for living the best they can in accordance to what is good and peaceful, but one needs to be allowed to explore what life has instead of following rules set by an organization that is basically a form of Multi-level marketing..

Governments need to be completely religion free - no exceptions
hotDNA at 09:56 PM JST - 31st March

The last days is manifested by people who don't believe in God and who betray the name of the Lord. From the above, I can say that we are now living in the last days.
tigris at 05:56 AM JST - 1st April

In places without healthcare (large parts of Africa for example) girls/women outnumber boys/men by natural selection: the have a higher resistance against deseases and a higher survival rate due to social and health issues (reference life expectancy in so called developped nations). This surplus of women is/was being provided for in traditional societies where multiple wives are common. One might not like this idea, but it is certainly preferable to prostitution or worse.

"What has the islamic world brought us? Honor killings, suicide bombers, live beheadings on video, enormous expenses for antiterrorism measures that we otherwise would not need."

A significant number of inventions occurred in the Islamic world: 1 Astronomical instruments: Astrolabes, Analog computers, Globes, Mural instruments 2 Aviation technology: Parachute, Hang glider, Flight controls, Artificial wings, Artificially-powered manned rocket, Astronautics and space exploration 3 Camera technology: Pinhole camera, Camera obscura 4 Chemical technology: Chemical processes, Laboratory apparatus, Chemical industries, Drinking industry, Glass industry, Hygiene industries, Perfumery industry 5 Civil engineering: Bridge dam, Cobwork, Diversion dam, High-rise skyscrapers and vertical construction urban planning, Prefabricated homes and movable structures, Street lighting and litter collection facilities, Surveying instruments 6 Clock technology: Astronomical clocks, Candle clocks, Dials, Elephant clock with automaton, regulator and closed loop, Mechanical clocks, Striking clock, Watch, Water clocks 7 Industrial milling: Bridge mill, Factory milling installation, Geared and wind-powered gristmills with trip hammers, Industrial mills, Milling dam, Paper mill, Shipmill, Spiral scoop-wheel, Sugar refinery, Tide mill and tidal-powered machine, Water-powered finery forge, Water turbine, Windmill 8 Mechanical technology: Agricultural devices, Artificial weather simulation, Automatic gate, Complex segmental and epicyclic gears, Crankshaft and connecting rod, Crank-driven screw and screwpump, Double-action reciprocating suction piston pump, Flywheel-driven chain pump and noria, Fountain pen, Hodometer, Mechanical singing birds, Metronome, Non-wooden block printing, On/off switch, Programmable humanoid robot, Six-cylinder 'Monobloc' pump, Steam turbine, Ventillator 9 Medical technology: Medical institutions, Medical treatments, Surgical instruments Military technology: Purified potassium nitrate, Explosive gunpowder, Hand cannon, handgun, portable firearm, Fireproof clothing and dissolved talc, Gunpowder cartridge, Siege cannon, Ballistic war machine, Counterweight trebuchet, Torpedo, Supergun, Multi-barrel machine gun, Iron rocket artillery, Other weapons 11 Navigational technology: Baculus, Caravel, Cartographic instruments, Compass rose, Kamal, Lateen, Three-masted merchant vessel 12 Other inventions: Graph paper and orthogonal grids, Institutions

Add to that important contributions particularly in architecture, mathematics (algebra and algorithms), medicine, health and hygiene.

Some sources you might want to check out for further investigation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamicscience http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InventionsintheMuslim_world
tigris at 06:16 AM JST - 1st April

Zaphod: "Inform yourself before opining, both about the history and the content of the religion." Excellent idea!
invulnerable23 at 07:15 AM JST - 1st April

Religion is necessary. Everyone has a view of the world, and no one view is superior to another; including views that the universe is all there is.
outhousejt at 07:29 AM JST - 1st April

Religion gives shallow answers due to your insecurity. The flip side is that everyone has insecurity.
Alphaape at 09:23 AM JST - 1st April

One thought on this topic: If you choose not to believe in religion, it is better for you to live in a Christian country than a Muslim one. Take Italy, with the Roman Catholic church in Rome (Vatican City, a seperate country I know) at least you can choose not to believe, and for the most part, the religious views are not a part of everyday life. Yes they do have laws based on the teachings of the church, but there used to be a show that came on SuperChannel late at night that was an Italian show with some cheesy looking host, but the women would show up in Bikini's and somehow wind up taking off their tops. Hard to believe that this show originates from a Catholic country. Not to even get into all of the stuff in the media that broadcasts from the US, GB, France, and other Christian places.

But in an Islamic country it is a different story. In Saudia Arabia, try sitting with a woman in a coffee shop if you are not a male relative. Or if you are a woman, try to drive a car or go out without the head scarf or other women's clothes. This was a major issue with US troops that were stationed there, when we had female truck drivers on the roads in vehicles with men not related to. It got to the point where we had to work around and conform as much as possible to their customs so as not to upset them (and all of the talk about the US and how we are suppoesedly heavy handed with the SOFA in Japan). Also, non Muslims are not allowed to enter into Mecca. They actually have a sign on the highway that says "Chrstian Bypass."

Go to Indonesia, and you see some of the same things. If you are born a Muslim, you can not "quit" and convert to another religion. It is on your ID and can't be removed. A women tried to do so when she found out that she was adopted by a Muslim family and wanted to marry outside her religion, and the Supreme Court there refused her petition, as well as the protests in the streets against this woman.

So for those of you who say that you have not religion, that is fine by me, and for the most part, for the majority of people who live in Christian societies. Yes there will be some who believe it is their divine mission to convert you, but I think that goes with just about anything. Also, in America, if someone tries to do that to you at work or discriminates against you becuase of you preference of non-religion, you can sue them and it has been done.

As the numbers of Muslims increases, I am sure sooner or later there will be conflict between the two religions, on tolerance of thier tenets. We can see now that the Muslims will try to force their ways on all non-believers. If you think I am wrong, look back at the topic of Muslim women wanting a seperate time to work out at a Harvard gym, or how taxi drives in the US refuse to take passengers who have been drinking, or who have seeing eye dogs because they believe that they are unclean.
Azrael at 03:39 AM JST - 3rd April

Alphaape at 09:23 AM JST - 1st April: Your post is right on. I agree with you.
pvariel at 04:57 PM JST - 3rd April

Not a surprising news. Muslim laws are so stringent that no one can go out from it, if so he has to face severe consequence, whereas in Christianity it is the other way round. As "Alphaape" said in the comment: Take the case of any Muslim country, “If you are born a Muslim, you can’t quit and convert to another religion. The other reason to this increase is well known.
Zaphod at 02:20 PM JST - 5th April

pvariel,

*Not a surprising news. Muslim laws are so stringent that no one can go out from it, if so he has to face severe consequence *

"Severe consequence"? According to islamic law, the punishment for leaving islam (apostacy) is death. Joining islam, on the other hand, takes no more than saying the Shahada with witnesses. (Careful when stating that you believe in Allah with muslims around... you might just have converted without knowing that you did).

The whole thing is designed for demographic conquest, and boy does that work well.