Muslims outnumber Catholics in 2006 for 1st time ever

Monday 31st March, 11:38 AM JST

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Alphaape at 09:05 PM JST - 31st March

Zaphod, Christianity and Jesus predate the arrival of Muhammad and the spread of Islam. Many of the old testament stories are found in the Koran (Adam & Eve, Abraham (the father is Ismael, whom Islam and Muhammad descend from), and just like it was the angel Gabriel who recited the Koran to Muhammand, it was also he who gave Mary notification that she was to give birth to Jesus.

Yes Christians do think the Bible (Old and New Testaments) are inspired by God. The current Bible (King James Version) was the result of a series of iterations until finally decided upon at the Nicean council (it was in a differnt language I know and not English, but I am just compressing history here to make up for space). But there are other stories and books that were not put into the Bible. There was the recent example of the book of Judas, that goes into the life of Judas Iscarot (the one who betraye Jesus on the night he was apprehended by the Romans) and there are other books that talk about the life of Jesus before his 30th year, and other books on the events that happened in the Garden of Eden (like Eve was not the first woman, but Lilith was. Why was she written out of the Bible? Instead of eating the apple she spoke Gods real name, and for that she was bansihed as a spirit, that is found in the ancient Hebrew writings that are not part of the Torah).

So, bottom line, Yes Christians do believe that the Bible is inspired by God, and we try to live up to the interpretations of it the best way we can. Yes I know now that my neighbor does not have an "ass" that I should not covet, but those base line emotions that the Bible says we should try to control and moderate are still with us today, and to me that is what makes the Bible work for me.

Moderator: All readers back on topic please.
skipthesong at 09:55 PM JST - 31st March

and we try to live up to the interpretations of it the best way we can" That's noble, it really it, but the problem with any religion is its desire to expand and to set forth rules that hinder anyone from speaking about inconsistencies and even going as far as a punishment of death in many many many cases. While I haven't heard of any Christian church doing that in recent times, I do know they have done in the past and we all know that in Islam, punishment of death is still in play..

I could careless what anyone believes in, in fact I can even praise someone for living the best they can in accordance to what is good and peaceful, but one needs to be allowed to explore what life has instead of following rules set by an organization that is basically a form of Multi-level marketing..

Governments need to be completely religion free - no exceptions
hotDNA at 09:56 PM JST - 31st March

The last days is manifested by people who don't believe in God and who betray the name of the Lord. From the above, I can say that we are now living in the last days.
tigris at 05:56 AM JST - 1st April

In places without healthcare (large parts of Africa for example) girls/women outnumber boys/men by natural selection: the have a higher resistance against deseases and a higher survival rate due to social and health issues (reference life expectancy in so called developped nations). This surplus of women is/was being provided for in traditional societies where multiple wives are common. One might not like this idea, but it is certainly preferable to prostitution or worse.

"What has the islamic world brought us? Honor killings, suicide bombers, live beheadings on video, enormous expenses for antiterrorism measures that we otherwise would not need."

A significant number of inventions occurred in the Islamic world: 1 Astronomical instruments: Astrolabes, Analog computers, Globes, Mural instruments 2 Aviation technology: Parachute, Hang glider, Flight controls, Artificial wings, Artificially-powered manned rocket, Astronautics and space exploration 3 Camera technology: Pinhole camera, Camera obscura 4 Chemical technology: Chemical processes, Laboratory apparatus, Chemical industries, Drinking industry, Glass industry, Hygiene industries, Perfumery industry 5 Civil engineering: Bridge dam, Cobwork, Diversion dam, High-rise skyscrapers and vertical construction urban planning, Prefabricated homes and movable structures, Street lighting and litter collection facilities, Surveying instruments 6 Clock technology: Astronomical clocks, Candle clocks, Dials, Elephant clock with automaton, regulator and closed loop, Mechanical clocks, Striking clock, Watch, Water clocks 7 Industrial milling: Bridge mill, Factory milling installation, Geared and wind-powered gristmills with trip hammers, Industrial mills, Milling dam, Paper mill, Shipmill, Spiral scoop-wheel, Sugar refinery, Tide mill and tidal-powered machine, Water-powered finery forge, Water turbine, Windmill 8 Mechanical technology: Agricultural devices, Artificial weather simulation, Automatic gate, Complex segmental and epicyclic gears, Crankshaft and connecting rod, Crank-driven screw and screwpump, Double-action reciprocating suction piston pump, Flywheel-driven chain pump and noria, Fountain pen, Hodometer, Mechanical singing birds, Metronome, Non-wooden block printing, On/off switch, Programmable humanoid robot, Six-cylinder 'Monobloc' pump, Steam turbine, Ventillator 9 Medical technology: Medical institutions, Medical treatments, Surgical instruments Military technology: Purified potassium nitrate, Explosive gunpowder, Hand cannon, handgun, portable firearm, Fireproof clothing and dissolved talc, Gunpowder cartridge, Siege cannon, Ballistic war machine, Counterweight trebuchet, Torpedo, Supergun, Multi-barrel machine gun, Iron rocket artillery, Other weapons 11 Navigational technology: Baculus, Caravel, Cartographic instruments, Compass rose, Kamal, Lateen, Three-masted merchant vessel 12 Other inventions: Graph paper and orthogonal grids, Institutions

Add to that important contributions particularly in architecture, mathematics (algebra and algorithms), medicine, health and hygiene.

Some sources you might want to check out for further investigation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamicscience http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InventionsintheMuslim_world
tigris at 06:16 AM JST - 1st April

Zaphod: "Inform yourself before opining, both about the history and the content of the religion." Excellent idea!
invulnerable23 at 07:15 AM JST - 1st April

Religion is necessary. Everyone has a view of the world, and no one view is superior to another; including views that the universe is all there is.
outhousejt at 07:29 AM JST - 1st April

Religion gives shallow answers due to your insecurity. The flip side is that everyone has insecurity.
Alphaape at 09:23 AM JST - 1st April

One thought on this topic: If you choose not to believe in religion, it is better for you to live in a Christian country than a Muslim one. Take Italy, with the Roman Catholic church in Rome (Vatican City, a seperate country I know) at least you can choose not to believe, and for the most part, the religious views are not a part of everyday life. Yes they do have laws based on the teachings of the church, but there used to be a show that came on SuperChannel late at night that was an Italian show with some cheesy looking host, but the women would show up in Bikini's and somehow wind up taking off their tops. Hard to believe that this show originates from a Catholic country. Not to even get into all of the stuff in the media that broadcasts from the US, GB, France, and other Christian places.

But in an Islamic country it is a different story. In Saudia Arabia, try sitting with a woman in a coffee shop if you are not a male relative. Or if you are a woman, try to drive a car or go out without the head scarf or other women's clothes. This was a major issue with US troops that were stationed there, when we had female truck drivers on the roads in vehicles with men not related to. It got to the point where we had to work around and conform as much as possible to their customs so as not to upset them (and all of the talk about the US and how we are suppoesedly heavy handed with the SOFA in Japan). Also, non Muslims are not allowed to enter into Mecca. They actually have a sign on the highway that says "Chrstian Bypass."

Go to Indonesia, and you see some of the same things. If you are born a Muslim, you can not "quit" and convert to another religion. It is on your ID and can't be removed. A women tried to do so when she found out that she was adopted by a Muslim family and wanted to marry outside her religion, and the Supreme Court there refused her petition, as well as the protests in the streets against this woman.

So for those of you who say that you have not religion, that is fine by me, and for the most part, for the majority of people who live in Christian societies. Yes there will be some who believe it is their divine mission to convert you, but I think that goes with just about anything. Also, in America, if someone tries to do that to you at work or discriminates against you becuase of you preference of non-religion, you can sue them and it has been done.

As the numbers of Muslims increases, I am sure sooner or later there will be conflict between the two religions, on tolerance of thier tenets. We can see now that the Muslims will try to force their ways on all non-believers. If you think I am wrong, look back at the topic of Muslim women wanting a seperate time to work out at a Harvard gym, or how taxi drives in the US refuse to take passengers who have been drinking, or who have seeing eye dogs because they believe that they are unclean.
Azrael at 03:39 AM JST - 3rd April

Alphaape at 09:23 AM JST - 1st April: Your post is right on. I agree with you.
Zorro at 02:35 PM JST - 3rd April

Alphaape,

Go to a Christian country and try to have two wives. Convert to Islam and try to run for government office. Try wearing a plain scarf over your long hair while playing a game of football. Whip out your prayer rug at the airport, kneel and pray facing Mecca and lets see how security takes it. Or just walk around in traditional clothing from Islamic countries and bask in the gawks you would not receive for wearing a T-shirt and jeans in Pakistan. These things cut both ways a lot of times.

If you think I am wrong, look back at the topic of Muslim women wanting a seperate time to work out at a Harvard gym

Yeah, you are wrong. Men and women have separate toilets too. Big deal.

or how taxi drives in the US refuse to take passengers who have been drinking

I am sure no US taxi driver ever refused someone for wearing a turban.

or who have seeing eye dogs because they believe that they are unclean.

You saying dogs are neat? I hate having dog hair in my taxi!
Zorro at 02:41 PM JST - 3rd April

It got to the point where we had to work around and conform as much as possible to their customs so as not to upset them

Since you claim to have been there, I would think you would realize those were not customs, but were LAWS. And those laws are in place for a reason, and that is because the people have not learned to self regulate relations between the sexes. That being the case, tinkering with those laws will create havoc unless done properly. Such as it is, I bet we have more rapes in the west, and that is another thing those laws you scorn try to prevent.

Nobody has a perfect solution to male-female relations. But when you go to a foreign country, I propose that you respect their imperfect solutions as you respect your own imperfect solutions.
Zorro at 02:52 PM JST - 3rd April

Yes Christianity made possible the age of Enlightenment,

To make that statement reads far too much into the role of religion. The mood of western culture, at the time, made the Enlightenment possible.

but just as with any organization, certain people where the ones who were against it.

And while many of their feelings of opposition may have had to do with their interpretations of religion, the people who exercised the real power that could have stopped the Enlightenment were leaders of the Christian Church. As you say, self interest was also a factor. But it was not Christianity itself.

In short, we do not have Christianity to thank for the Enlightenment, nor even for nearly blocking it. While religion may have helped to drive the desire for knowledge, its naught to do with the religion itself.

What is more, we have Christian religious zealots to blame for the NEED for the Enlightenment, with events such as the destruction of the library of Alexandria, but again, it was not the Christian religion that set the stage for that, but rather, the views and interpretations of the zealots. Blame them.
Zorro at 02:54 PM JST - 3rd April

Muslims outnumber Catholics in 2006 for 1st time ever

What an odd benchmark. Its my believe that the number of Catholics in the world is plummetting, and for good reason, or perhaps you could say, reason itself. That fact alone is plenty to state without making this some sort of competition with Islam.
pvariel at 04:57 PM JST - 3rd April

Not a surprising news. Muslim laws are so stringent that no one can go out from it, if so he has to face severe consequence, whereas in Christianity it is the other way round. As "Alphaape" said in the comment: Take the case of any Muslim country, “If you are born a Muslim, you can’t quit and convert to another religion. The other reason to this increase is well known.
Zaphod at 02:20 PM JST - 5th April

pvariel,

*Not a surprising news. Muslim laws are so stringent that no one can go out from it, if so he has to face severe consequence *

"Severe consequence"? According to islamic law, the punishment for leaving islam (apostacy) is death. Joining islam, on the other hand, takes no more than saying the Shahada with witnesses. (Careful when stating that you believe in Allah with muslims around... you might just have converted without knowing that you did).

The whole thing is designed for demographic conquest, and boy does that work well.