N Korea declares past accords with South 'dead'
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timorborder
Sometimes I wish the South Koreans would respond to this rhetoric in kind. North Korea is a regime that enslaves its people, regularly acts in breach of international agreements, conducts state-sponsored manufacturing of drugs that are then smuggled overseas, etc. If ever there was an argument for "Regime Change," Pyongyang is it (closely followed by Mugabe in Zimbabwe).
Anyway, I hope the South Koreans file this little spat away for future reference. The next time that North Korea is looking for some concessions from either the South or the US, the South should remind Pyongyang that it is not wise to bite the hand that feeds you.
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techall
"North’s Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea", well at least they have a sense of humor.
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adaydream
The way that I read it this statement explains why North Korea has taken this stance:
I think this was brought about by an ignorant statement by the South and a retaliation statement by the North. < :-)
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SuperLib
Oh daydream....please don't tell me you're going to add North Korea to your list of countries to apologize for?
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smithinjapan
Timorborder: I can understand the sentiment of wishing they would react in kind, but to be frank it would likely result in their annihilation. To be sure, NK would also be wiped off the map completely, but the South and the world have FAR more to lose through SKorea being nuked than the dying regime in the North.
"Anyway, I hope the South Koreans file this little spat away for future reference. The next time that North Korea is looking for some concessions from either the South or the US, the South should remind Pyongyang that it is not wise to bite the hand that feeds you."
Wrong again. What SKorea should do is file this next to the files where things were getting a whole lot better when they didn't take such a hard stance, and compare the two; they'll quickly realize that the latter, hard stance, much as with how things soured after Koizumi and after the 'Axis of Evil' crap, doesn't do much.
“Agreements between the South and the North cannot be scrapped unilaterally,” Unification Ministry spokesman Kim Ho-nyeon said. “We urge North Korea to come forward to dialogue.”
Hate to break it to this genius, but agreements CAN be scrapped unilaterally. They cannot be FORGED unilaterally, to be sure, but if one party walks out on them and starts shooting at you, you going to point out with words that they can't do that according to your logic?
What's more, I find it interesting that these hard-liners in the South say they'll give NK ZERO concessions and will keep to their hard line but say, "Please, let's keep up the dialogue" to NK. How does THAT work??
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smithinjapan
I hate to say it, but you have to play by NK's rules. Doing so is not going to change anything quick, but it WILL change. NOT doing so will only change the face of the map -- as in they'll be a few large holes where Seoul, Busan, PyongYang, and several other large cities used to be.
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SezWho2
I think it would be difficult to say that North Korea is not at all a most provoking country. However, that the North Korean statement is a response to South Korean rhetoric seems to me to be a fair point. (It would, wouldn't it!) If it is not a response to South Korean rhetoric, what is it? Of course, that again would require attending to the topic instead of arguing against the man.
Kim Ho-nyeon's statement strikes me as either ridiculous, poorly translated or taken out of context: "Agreements between the South and the North cannot be scrapped unilaterally." Obviously they can.
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techall
All agreements made with NK are DOA from the get-go. If new Prez Obama thinks these people can be barganed with he need to call in Maddie Albright, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (democrats all) and ask them how far NK can be trusted to honor an agreement. Dealing with a nuke armed psyco is not the time to take off the training wheels. The only bright spot I see is that new SecState H. Clinton was around to see them sucker punch her husband and will be very skeptical of anything they say.
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smithinjapan
techall: Again another fool who can't see the forest for the trees. Poke all you what at former democratic presidents; the current position was reached thanks to GWB almost single-handedly. In fact, until he launched his 'Axis of Evil' bombast there was no war in Iraq, things with NKorea were actually looking like they might stabilize, and Iran wasn't half the threat it is today.
The South Korean leader is directly to blame with the talks breaking down with SK (they still kept up, despite them falling apart all around the world besides), but there are people world-wide who can attest to the fact that your idea of strong-arming them into getting what you want (by virtue of the fact that you say talking won't work) hasn't gotten anything but nothing... and fast. There was in fact an interesting article related to this on the abduction issue, talking about how a former abductee's brother was furious at the government for their belligerent stance, pointing out the fact that when said government was LESS belligerent, his brother finally came home and there were bilateral talks in Pyong-Yang, etc.
NK is no saint in any of this, to put it mildly, but playing at their level will just get you nuked.
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rajakumar
North needs more aid,funds,petrol and attention. Push past accords dead and get more headlines,peace delegations and philharmonic concerts tours in north korea.
North korea wants to be as rich as Vietnam or more richer.
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SuperLib
So we should just work around the radical and illogical nature of North Korea then everything will be OK.
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Kwaabish
Whoever thought that NK could be trusted to follow through on any agreement in the first place?
All should know that any aid or concession made to NK would be made based upon probably no concession by NK.
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some14some
Now is the time to hold 4-party talks and work out denuclearization plan
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adaydream
SuperLib we don't need to apologize to anybody. This is between North and South Korea. Not between the United States and North Korea, like you tried to emply.
It's about time that North and South Korea get their act together. The United States needs to bring home the 30,000 of our troops there. We shouldn't be in the business of playing peace-fence for 50+ years. It's about time that we brought our troops home.
Those people that support the United States being there need to relook at their stand. How much longer do we stay there? Another 50+ years?
Again, North and South Korea need to make peace. I keep hearing how the middle east needs to be nice with each other, well the Koreas are the same thing. < :-)
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smithinjapan
SuperLib: "So we should just work around the radical and illogical nature of North Korea then everything will be OK."
So what's your genius suggestion? More of the bush, "Let's go hard-line and watch any progress between the nations vanish"?
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neverknow2
Sounds a lot like another Asian nation. I could tell you who but my post would then be removed. You know what I mean??
North Korea is not the only dictatorship around. They are just upfront to the media about being a dictatorship.
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grafton
smithinjapan at 01:10 AM JST - 31st January
“So what's your genius suggestion?”
I can’t offer a suggestion, genius or otherwise for Superlib, & to be honest I don’t see you offering much either. Sit still, be nice & do nothing isn’t an answer. Not unless in reference to your earlier post what you are really saying is that now that NK have nukes we must all be very nice to them.
NK is like some crazy spoilt child, when it wants something it has one of these mad moments, gets real nasty & then next week asks for something knowing it will be given to simply to keep it quiet. Agreement have always been the same, NK agrees so long as it is to be given to & once it gets what it wanted the agreement is dead. Adaydream rightfully asks when the US troops are ever going to be brought home, after another 50 years? Well, at your rate of doing things yes. We can’t just keep waiting for the next “dear leader” to die in the hope that the next one might better, the next might just be worse & where has the nicely nice of the last years got the world?
The real answer lies not with NK but with China, put the pressure on China to deal with NK & we will see change, but that isn’t going to happen while aid is still being sent to the spoilt child.
Now for the real question, how is China brought on board?
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OssanAmerica
Smith Go ahead and stop making payments on your credit card or cease to comply with your comittment in any agreement or contract "unilaterally" and see what happens.
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VOR
I've got a genius suggestion. Obama should ask Canada to go over there and figure out the correct diplomatic approach. Folks from Canada will share their opinions and criticisms all day long when they have nothing on the line so maybe its time Canada comes out from behind the protection of the United States and does something positive of a change.
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ca1ic0cat
History is full of examples of attempts to coddle dictators and littered with the corpses of those who tried.
If NK wants to pitch a fit because they aren't getting their toys then let them. The are insignificant worms. The only reason to even acknowledge NK is to try to keep the people from starving. Other than that the best solution is to ignore them.
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YuriOtani
adaydream, I am in agreement with you for once. South Korea needs to be able to handle their own problems. If the much richer South Korea can not fight off the much smaller and bankrupt North Korea perhaps they deserve their fate. Having the Americans in between the is not right. The American troops get badly treated by the population of the south. Perhaps Japan should just say that America can not use their bases in Japan in case of a conflict. Japan should not get involved in the peninsulas problems. My question is how does the north's statement mean? Is it just confined to agreements with South Korea or all?
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SezWho2
SuperLib,
Did someone actually suggest that this would be the case?
Unless we are willing to lay hands on North Korea, to the extent that it has a radical and illogical nature, we have to "work around it". In fact, that is what we have been doing since the armistice. And we have been doing precious little except that. I'd invite you to assess how that's been working.
In addition to working around it, however, we need to continue to make efforts to get through to it. That's why I objected to Bush's strident rhetoric and that's why I question the wisdom of Lee's renewed hard line. We've been there, done that and it hasn't worked. Simply because a sunshine policy does not work in a year, or five or ten, that's no reason to abandon it only to return to something that has a much longer history of not working.
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sensei258
grafton - "NK is like some crazy spoilt child, when it wants something it has one of these mad moments, gets real nasty & then next week asks for something knowing it will be given to simply to keep it quiet." EXACTLY correct, except they have nukes.
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nanotechnology
The new leader of South Korea is right in handling with the north. The reunification will never happened peacefully unless the power-hungry, greedy dictator (and his party) rules the NORTH.
Speaking of dead, economically the NORTH is dead. At night, it is literally dead. Click the link below. this is the satellite image of light intensity taken some time in 2002.
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/1438/earthlightslrg.jpg
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nanotechnology
sorry, there is a correction
The new leader of South Korea is right in handling with the north. The reunification will never happened peacefully unless the power-hungry, greedy dictator (and his party) who rules the NORTH will be all dead and gone.
Speaking of dead, economically the NORTH is dead. At night, it is literally dead. Click the link below. this is the satellite image of light intensity taken some time in 2002.
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/1438/earthlightslrg.jpg
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wuzzademcrat
Seems like a regional problem to me.
China doesn't want North Korea "normalized".
And they can count on the eternally adolescent international Left blaming America no matter what happens.
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smithinjapan
grafton: "The real answer lies not with NK but with China, put the pressure on China to deal with NK & we will see change, but that isn’t going to happen while aid is still being sent to the spoilt child."
THERE'S a start! I've actually said on more than a number of occasions how NKorea should be dealt with, but clearly people choose not to listen and instead need to come on with, "NUKE 'EM" or, "stop giving in" radical 'solutions' that of course have absolutely zero practicality to them, since it will indeed lead to war. I in turn usually reply that they need to be mollified, not taunted or pressured, which is what you have seen on here.
I have in the past suggested as you do that China needs to get on board, and pointed out that there stance HAS changed slightly from outright defense of NK, as it once was, due to what I believe is a slightly more moderate tone as they become more of an economic player in the world stage (as in, much more powerful and less defiant). I believe China quickly warned and/or put pressure on them after the nuclear testing 3 years back. Russia also needs to put some pressure on NK, although with the MORE defiant tone they took with the Bush government there has been a backlash, and also with their struggling economy they might be more opening to simply selling off weapons for cash.
First and foremost what needs to be done is for SKorea and the US and Japan to drop their bombastic language. Let me get this straight for you -- I do NOT support the NK regime, and I believe everyone is correct in saying they have not nor are likely to change any time soon. HOWEVER, that's exactly part of the point; what HAS changed to bring about this situation? The answer: the president of SKorea, who has taken on a far harder tone than his predecessor, the result of which we are seeing in this thread. What else changed to make things go down hill? the Axis of Evil label and Japan backing out of its support promises when it didn't like the results of certain fact-finding missions, etc. We saw the relationship between Japan-NK dramatically sent back to the stone ages; they started up the MonBok reactor again, etc.
I also agree that this needs to be an issue predominantly for the two Koreas, but as the new SK Pres. has shown to be more detrimental to the problem then a critical element in solving it, there has to be outside help as well.
After the bombast is dropped, I do believe NK will demand more aid, etc. I'm not saying just to sit back and do nothing, but I do believe that for the time being, after dropping the rhetoric, the other nations will have to live up to what they've promised to contribute, and China and Russia need to press NK to take steps to dismantle their nuclear program.
SezWho mirrors much of what I'm saying here, and admits as well that the hardline of bush/Lee has done nothing but send things backwards instead of allowing them to move forward.
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smithinjapan
wuzza: "And they can count on the eternally adolescent international Left blaming America no matter what happens."
You forgot your favourite 'socialist cheerleaders' in there... or did that die with your past handle?
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SuperLib
Actually smith what we're seeing is North Korea's response to questioning unconditional aid. It's not like South Korea is sending tanks across the border.
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wuzzademcrat
smithinjapan:"the Axis of Evil label and Japan backing out of its support promises when it didn't like the results of certain fact-finding missions," blah blah blah.
"Axis of Evil" was coined by the Canadian, David Frum. You do know that, don't you?
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