N Korea says it conducted 2nd nuclear test
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0
Beelzebub
Kim makes nukes while half his population starves. If he had been French, he would have proclaimed, "Let them eat yellowcake!"
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sydenham
Reverse psychology: How about Obama and Aso phone up Kim to congratulate him. See how he deals with it.
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some14some
UNSC may pass one more non-binding resolution and Japan will tolerate it.
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SushiSake3
The big question is "Was it really a nuke?"
The last bomb NK exploded in 2006 wasn't a nuke. The MSM seem to have convinced themselves it was despite the fact U.S. sniffer planes flew over the site twice in the days following the 2006 'test' and detected zero radiation, which would be impossible had the bomb actually been a nuclear device.
I say just let the NK government get their jollies and ignore them.
The thing they want most is attention and to be taken seriously, and making a fuss about it and waving around sanction threats plays right into their hands.
Which leads them to make stronger demands, and it all goes around again in a happy, entirely predictable little circle.
NK has a well-known strategy: in the lead-up to any multi-party talks about its "nuclear weapons program," they start firing stuff off and exploding stuff - all with the express purpose of being able to come to the negotiating table with a stronger hand.
It's happening alllllll over again.
What we will see from this point is the leaders of Japan, Korea, America, the U.N, etc. all expressing their "outrage!" at this latest event, all the while Kim Jong-Il and his top generals will be sitting back somewhere crying with laughter at just how gullible and predictable the response of Western powers is.
It's a game, a test of wills and political brinkmanship, and amazingly, North Korea wins EVERY time.
As I said, Western powers should just ignore this test.
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SushiSake3
sydenham - "Reverse psychology: How about Obama and Aso phone up Kim to congratulate him. See how he deals with it."
ROFL!! :-)
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teleprompter
The "international community" will just wring its hands, "slam" North Korea, and then pray that the US can do something.
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timorborder
Ah North Korea, that socialist paradise on earth where the population wants nothing (due to a fear of being sent on a extended holiday to Camp Kim or one of the other strangely named reeducation facilities).
Now I know this is a very old chestnut, however, what does Kim have to do to push the US and others into actively considering a regime change up North. Saddam was removed from power on the flimiest of evidence. By comparison, Kim actually seems to have done everything Saddam was accussed of. Sponsor terrorism (he has already done that), what about develop weapons of mass destruction (you can cross that one of the list), enslave his people (check). He also has a nice little side business in manufacturing illegal drugs, counterfeiting and human rights abuse. Even blind Freddie or Colin Powell could put forward an argument for acting against Kim (while holding a straight face).
0
vajra
US should fly over the country dropping leaflets ( Kim ur gay )
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SushiSake3
timorborder - great question.
I'd love to see some of the Right Wingers on JT come up with every reason why NK shouldn't be invaded while they had no problem backing the invasion of Iraq on, as you correctly stated, the "flimiest of evidence."
Looking forward to a good chuckle. :-)
0
DXXJP
Sushi
Well they would have to strike oil with that thar blast dangut, then dick could come on Tv with a few words for the Obama team and tell them how they aint doin their jobs.
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sailwind
It's called China....Next.
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teleprompter
Obama said he wanted to rid the world of nukes.
The Norks still went ahead with this test, because they understand Obama and the Democrats will disarm America first, and demand that Israel follow suit.
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teleprompter
Cool.
Citizen spies, techies and google hobbyists are slowly unveiling Kimmie's whackjob Hermit Kingdom.
Gulags, Nukes and a Water Slide: Citizen Spies Lift North Korea's Veil With Sleuthing and Satellite Images, Mr. Melvin Fills the Blanks on a Secretive Nation's Map
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124295017403345489.html
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timorborder
Thanks for the comment sailwind. The big question, however, is how far would China go if push came to shove. Many years ago when Chinese politics was rife with factions and there was no strong leadership, it could have been argued that China would have jumped to defend North Korea if Pyongyang was threatened. What about these days, however, Deng Xiaoping and his succcessors in China have put the country very much on the capitalizt road (party dogma aside) and I doubt whether the country could "chuck a U turn" and go back to the good old days of hardline Maoist thought. Indeed, looking at the relations between China and North Korea, I sometimes think that Beijing would like Pyongyang to quietly go away. So what about it? How far would China go (considering its engagement with the rest of the world) in supporting Elvis in Pyongyang?
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sailwind
timorborder
The last thing China would tolerate would be a free and prosperious Unified Korea on her border.
It is still a one party state and the Tainemen (spelling?) square is still very much in the regimes thought process. There is a nanscent Democracy and freedom movement in China, just under the surface and the regime views that as a threat to their rule. They may not like Kimmy and his odious regime in internal discussions, but they will support it as the alternative is a lot worse to their long term survival as a one party state dictatorship.
A free Unified Korea threatens them politically and will not be tolerated in the current Chinese regime thought process. China also has a much greater nuclear capibility, a greater army and the economic prowness to really hurt the U.S, Japan and South Korea our traditional allies in the region if we were to try regime change in the North.
The comparision to the geo-political situation in the M.E and the geo-political situation here in on own backyard are totally different in almost all respects. Here in our neighborhood were still stuck in pretty much a mini-cold war policy without it flaring into a regional conflict that would also engulf Japan and Tawain at some point. Delicate stuff here and it is why my original answer to your query was short and sweet and bares repeating........ China.
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SushiSake3
Good post Sailwind.
Far more mature and well thought out than teleprompter's comment about ...what was he talking about on this thread about NK's latest bomb test? - that's right - "google hobbyists."
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timorborder
Good post sailwind. Lots of things to think about regarding the internal situation in China. Love it or hate it, the current administration in Beijing is one of the few in the country's history that has bought a semblence of order to the country as a whole. At the same time, however, I am not convinced that China would come running to the aid of comrade Kim. I know that China would have serious reservations about Korea being united, however, whether such an entity would represent a strong threat to China or not is another issue. Something tells me that just putting North Korea back to the position it was circa 1945 would severely strain South Korean resources. Moreover, while Kim Ill Sung had a lot of guanxi with the Chinese, his son, Elvis, does not seem to be held in the same esteem. Indeed, using economic and other levers, perhaps the time is right to put a wedge between Beijing and Pyongyang.
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Gaijinocchio
N Korea says this and that, but it could just as likely be another missile and not a nuclear missile. Everyone knows N Korea is not above lies, intimidation, and brash actions with little to no provocation. N Korea will never ever attack a nation with a nuke, and China will never ever bankrupt the U.S.
If N Korea blasted, or attempted to blast, say, Tokyo. The full force of the developed world would bear down upon them, and even China could do nothing, or join against the belligerent nation, for obvious reasons. China will never bankrupt the U.S.A. Bring down their biggest trading partner? The World's biggest trading partner? In favor of who, Japan? Create a recession that would basically stop the world?
N Korea needs to be ignored...at least for the time being
0
skipthesong
why NK shouldn't be invaded" I'd think most know it would be one hell of a fight.
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sailwind
Actually, I propose a totally different tack and course than the six party talks or the current Obama and Bush policy of sticks and carrots to get them to dismantle their nuke program. I propose direct engagement with the regime and ensure them that we do not harbor any intentions in seeing North Korea go out of business. As a gesture of goodwill I think the U.S should give North Korea one of our largest nuclear bombs for free. One of those Hydrogen mega-ton ones.
There has been bad blood between our people over the years and of course the North Korean's would view this gesture with deep suspicion, maybe even going so far as to arrest our technical delivery party for this weapon once inside North Korea proper on trumped up spy charges.
Much as they have done recently to those two American journalists. To mitigate that possibility and yet ensure that the weapon is delivered in a pristine state and be ready for use, I would tell the North Koreans to build a huge net capable of catching it before it hit the ground, right in the middle of PyongYang as we will be dropping it from about thirty thousand feet from a stealth bomber. After they have received it, I think regime change will happen after all as they would no longer be able to say we thwarted their nuclear program since we gave them one for free because of the kindness of our hearts.
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tkoind2
I don't think that China can afford to be fully supportive of N. Korea in this case. There will be far to much pressure from her customer nations to take the right side, or at minimum, sit this one out.
Simply put, none of the regional stake holders can accept a N.Korea with both nukes and the delivery systems to use them. Each step they take towards this goal will be another that the rest of the world take toward finding ways to neutralize NK and her leadership.
China may want to retain the buffer state, but it may not be possible if N.Korea's actions enrage all the rest of the economic powers in the region and beyond. At the end of the day, China is not the country it was during Tianamin square. China today is a country with ambitions to dominate the regional economy and driven by leaders who are as interested in money as they are in power.
N.Korea is a liability for China now. One with increasingly hot issues that make it harder to hold on to.
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tkoind2
One other note. We saw the economic hardships and opportunities of German reunification. And W. Germany was nowhere near as backwards as N. Korea.
I believe that reunification would pose grand economic opportunities for neighboring nations like China. Opportunities to rebuild and exhert economic influence. This may well outweigh any left over party political notions.
China is more confident in her future as an economic super power than we give her credit for. Despite her many problems, she has considerable opportunity ahead. Especially in light of Japan's inability to lead the region.
China will not waste these opportunities supporting Kim. They may come to wish him gone as much as we do.
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apecNetworks
To Timorborder:
I believe the situation is more complicated than what you state. Former Sec. of State Rice drew an unstated dividing line between the US/Japan/ROK and DPRK/PRC/Russian Federation. From my experience w/ APEC, I do not disagree w/ a possible "dividing line".
0
SuperLib
Ah, the wonders of sharing a border with North Korea. Like I said before....just dump the problem in China's lap. They're the ones having their windows rattled.
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nandakandamanda
Interesting that no-one saw this coming. Did an earthquake happen, so NK quickly declared a nuclear test? Or did they drop it down the shaft by mistake, or did someone maybe cross the wrong wires? Or did all the spies get captured?
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nandakandamanda
Well, this test proves once and for all that NK was actually, openly, publicly lying on the international stage, and it was a missile and not a satellite launch last month.
Thanks for the clarification, folks.
(Actually if they had really wanted to avoid any doubt they would have built a rocket that did not have a missile-like profile.)
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pathat
And North Korea will do what with its so-called nuclear capabilities?
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TokyoHustla
The last thing South Korea would tolerate is a unified Korea.
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Badsey
I think you will see a unified Korea within 10yrs. However the people of NK are at a horrible economic disadvantage and must be protected economically somewhat. =The rich from SK will move in and quickly take over/advantage.
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grafton
Badsey at 06:50 AM JST - 26th May
“The rich from SK will move in and quickly take over/advantage.”
I think that TokyoHustla’s comment gets a bit closer to how South Korea sees this. A reunified Korea would bankrupt South Korea, there would be no SK rich. We saw this happen with East & West Germany & East Germany was no where near as backward & needy as NK is. I can believe the average SK man in the street wanting reunification but I can’t bring myself to believe that either government or big business want it. No matter how much of a show they might put on. If anything keeping Korea as two independent countries makes better sense. It keeps SK viable & provides the buffer zone China wants. That is not to say that NK should stay as it is, but any change there should come from Chinese pressure & nowhere else.
So the real question isn’t what to do about NK but what to do about China. There really isn’t all that much more pressure that could be out on NK anyway. So, how to pressure China into doing something about NK? Simple really, blockade NK so that they only have China to help them keep going. China isn’t going to sit back & feed NK, the drain on China would be intolerable & they, unlike the west would do something to bring about change. The only rough card in the pack would be Russia. A stand off between China & Russia might seem acceptable short term but it could lead to so much more. They are both too unpredictable.
However it goes, after yesterdays big bang now is the time that something must be done. It’s long overdue & it is not going to get better by waiting.
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apecNetworks
I got reaction to my 05:29 PM JST - 25th May post. Looks like "confirmation" - confidence is highhhhhhhhhh. Some of these US Officials are tooooooooo transparent.
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grafton
apecNetworks at 08:19 AM JST - 26th May
“these US Officials are tooooooooo transparent.”
This might, in it self be true, but trust me they would not be alone in being transparent.
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