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Nationalists clash with anti-racism protesters in Australia

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Islam is not a race therefore there is no racism occuring. As far as people claiming Muslims only wanting a place to practice their religion, I say there are more than a enough Islamic countries to chose from. In response to those who say those countries are not nice places to live I wil say that the reason for those places being so awful is Islam. People wondering why other countries are reluctant to import Islam into their country should consider these points.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Islam people live in Islam countries, Christians live in Christian coutries, Buddhists live in Buddhist countries. That is the key to peace. Stupid thing to mix them in the same country.

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

No, no, no! The progressive left wants no borders. We people are all the same.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Ha most Melbourne lefties have no idea what real problems are and often dont even live near problem areas so yea its just their ignorance showing protesting against racism yea even tough others are free to be racist against white people and christans is the hight of hypocrisy but they vote greens so they have nor real credibility in terms of intelect.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@ Tina "Islam people live in Islam countries, Christians live in Christian coutries, Buddhists live in Buddhist countries. That is the key to peace. Stupid thing to mix them in the same country."

Thats right lets judge people just on there faith and nothing more. Also its funny how japan had so many christian Prime ministers hey, and the current number 2 is catholic i think, but hey lets keep them all in the "correct box".
-1 ( +5 / -6 )

"Islam people live in Islam countries, Christians live in Christian coutries, Buddhists live in Buddhist countries. That is the key to peace. Stupid thing to mix them in the same country."

That depends. As you know, there are over a million Japanese Christians living in Japan.

Not taking religions too seriously is a better idea.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

All religions should have this "commandment" Keep thy religion to thy self.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Islam is not a race therefore there is no racism occuring. As far as people claiming Muslims only wanting a place to practice their religion, I say there are more than a enough Islamic countries to chose from. In response to those who say those countries are not nice places to live I wil say that the reason for those places being so awful is Islam. People wondering why other countries are reluctant to import Islam into their country should consider these points.

A mature educated nation is one which allows the practice of any religion. Christianity and Catholicism began in Bethlehem/ Nazareth/ Jerusalem. In your opinion we (white/ western/ anglo saxon) should maybe return to our homeland in the middle east..

Islam people live in Islam countries, Christians live in Christian coutries, Buddhists live in Buddhist countries. That is the key to peace. Stupid thing to mix them in the same country.

So according to your (blinkered) hypothesis thats a huge number of Christian return tickets to the current state of Israel please..

0 ( +5 / -5 )

"A mature educated nation is one which allows the practice of any religion." Um, how many Christian churches in Islamic countries? Any synagogues near Mecca. (Full disclosure; I am an atheist so I don't care but I can always be tolerant of those who are tolerant of others).

"Christianity and Catholicism began in Bethlehem/ Nazareth/ Jerusalem. In your opinion we (white/ western/ anglo saxon) should maybe return to our homeland in the middle east.." Didn't say it, don't think it. But I do believe that if you are a Muslim and you have problems with free speech, equal rights for women and want Shariah Law...well...yeah...stay in the crappy country you are coming from. There is no room for you in our country if the above description fits you and you won't get an apology for it. Try not to wet the bed tonight before you go to sleep.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@ Tina,

We have this amazing this called a brain, which allows us to agree to disagree and to debate a subject matter and come to a sensible conclusion. The world is not all about brushing problems under the carpet or turning a blind eye, sometimes things must be taken on head on its called being and adult and facing facts and standing by you own with out a baby sitter to hold your hand.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Ah samwatters. In your view, just because the Saudis are blinkered enough not to allow churches in their land then we should all follow suit. Ever thought of being a good role model and learning from others mistakes? You know, rising above it and all that.

You clearly said that there are plenty of Islamic nations in the world for muslims to live in. A big back-pedal now though eh. After I reminded you that if we organised the demographics back to the original lands of religion then there would be a mass Christian/ Catholic traffic jam on the road back to Israel. Huge amount of back-pedalling.

No room for "you" in "our" country. According to this new story we are talking about Melbourne. Belonging to the Native Aborigines. Not too far from Indonesia and Sumatra. Your country? Yeah good one.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Tiger. Again you do not understand; Islam is not a race, it's a religion.

"You clearly said that there are plenty of Islamic nations in the world for muslims to live in. A big back-pedal now though eh. After I reminded you that if we organised the demographics back to the original lands of religion then there would be a mass Christian/ Catholic traffic jam on the road back to Israel. Huge amount of back-pedalling."

Didn't backpeddle on jack. I'm from the US; that country is open to anyone who believes in freedom for themselves and others but is NOT open to those who wish to force their beliefs on others.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"Kobe, PM or not, no problem as long as they don't cause problems. But if the population of Christians (or any religions) increases, I'm sure it wouldn't be easy."

It's worth remembering that Buddhism and Shimtoism were mobilized to help create the foul ideology which resulted in Japan's devastation in WW2.

Don't take this stuff seriously. Keep an eye on all religions. They can all be toxic.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Tina,

Islam people live in Islam countries, Christians live in Christian coutries, Buddhists live in Buddhist countries. That is the key to peace

I'm not Muslim, Christian, or Buddhist. Where am I allowed to live in this segregated world of yours?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

All of the evidence points to homogeneous countries being better off, yet liberals, who claim to "love" science and stereotype conservatives as anti-science, bury their heads in the sands. This thread is good proof of that. Anyone that thinks that homogeneous Japan or homogeneous Iceland would be in any way, shape, or form better off if 10% of their population was Muslim is living in a fantasy world.

I'm not Muslim, Christian, or Buddhist. Where am I allowed to live in this segregated world of yours?

The secular world, you pedant. Yet I guarantee you live in a nominally Christian or Buddhist rather than a Muslim one.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

All of the evidence? You mean the evidence you cannot be bothered to produce?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

All of the evidence points to homogeneous countries being better off

That's good for a laugh! What evidence are you talking about exactly? The G7 just had their meeting, Are those seven countries homogenous? No, they are not. Even the most homogenous one among them, Japan, is not in fact a homogenous country. The only truly homogenous country is North Korea, and that I would say is evidence of the exact opposite of what you claim.

The secular world, you pedant. Yet I guarantee you live in a nominally Christian or Buddhist rather than a Muslim one.

I wasn't being pedantic. The proposal was that people should only live in countries of their own religion. I was pointing out that such a country does not exist for me to live in - as you point out, they're all nominally one or another, so the proposal isn't a sound one.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I'm not Muslim, Christian, or Buddhist. Where am I allowed to live in this segregated world of yours?

I just cited examples to show that people should live in a country you can assimilate into, not in a country you force to assimilate into you. .

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"Ever thought of being a good role model and learning from others mistakes?" @Tiger. I am learning from the mistakes of others, namely France and Germany. Ask them how your utopia of multiculturalism is working out and get back to me.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ask them how your utopia of multiculturalism is working out and get back to me.

Maybe you should try asking countries where multiculturalism works, like Canada or Brazil.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Islam people live in Islam countries, Christians live in Christian coutries, Buddhists live in Buddhist countries. That is the key to peace. Stupid thing to mix them in the same country.

I have been to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. There were Buddhists and muslims living side-by-side peacefully. I think there were a few Christians too.

Maybe you should try asking countries where multiculturalism works, like Canada or Brazil.

In most places, it works in the US too. As long as those foreigners are not illegal and aren't loyal to radical islam. America was one of the first place to embrace everyone, No?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Strangerland. Yes, it works in those places because the people who are migrating there are willing to assimilate but there is one group that upon arriving in another country immediately tries to convert that country into the country from which they fled. As I wrote earlier ask France and Germany (and throw in Sweden while you're at it) to see how it's going.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"I have been to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. There were Buddhists and muslims living side-by-side peacefully. I think there were a few Christians too."

Malaysia is often held up as a success story in terms of religious tolerance but this is only in comparison with other majority Muslim countries. There is religious oppression along with laws which people from secular countries would find revolting. Those outside Sunni Islam are at best tolerated. This isn't a good example of people living side-by-side freely.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

America was one of the first place to embrace everyone, No?

Those Americans first came from England to America, then fought against native Americans, then against Mexico, then Hawaii, Guam, Philipine, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, then Iraq and ME and ongoing. Is it embracing?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

there is one group that upon arriving in another country immediately tries to convert that country into the country from which they fled

Ah, you must mean the Europeans, with their track record of converting the Americas, Australia & New Zealand, most of Africa and a good chunk of Asia, to Christianity, and teaching them to speak English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese. No?

Of course, no, that isn't what you meant, you meant Muslims but for some reason didn't name them. Let me ask; has a Muslim ever tried to convert you to Islam? That has never happened to me, but many Christians have tried. When a mosque was built near my parents' house, it didn't convert me or anyone else that I know of and it didn't erase the half-dozen churches (or the Hindu temple) in the same neighbourhood

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Yoshitsune. Based on your name, I have to assume you live in Japan. If I am correct then when you say "Christian" you are likely talking about the Jehovoh's Witnesses or the Mormons. Both groups sometimes irritate me (I am an atheist) but both groups also respect my wishes when I say "not interested" so we can practice mutual tolerance. Muslims---you are correct that I was referring to Muslims---do not generally tolerate other religions or non-practitioners of Islam. Now, Muslims are not really aggressive in Japan but that is not because Islam necessarily is a religion on peace but rather because the Japanese police have less tolerance for the radicals in society. Left-leaning societies (France, Sweden, etc.) with high Muslim migration are having serious problems as these people (Muslims) do not generally assimilate and want to convert others to Islam.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Muslims---you are correct that I was referring to Muslims---do not generally tolerate other religions or non-practitioners of Islam

Muslims do generally tolerate other religions; the vast, vast majority of Muslims in the world are happy to live and let live. The intolerant violent extremists are a small minority of the total global Muslim population.

Muslims) do not generally assimilate and want to convert others to Islam.

Again, Muslims do generally assimilate. The vast majority do. And again, what is your reasoning or evidence that they want to convert others to Islam? I have never seen, experienced, or even heard of Muslims proselytising in countries they have emigrated to.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

"Of course, no, that isn't what you meant, you meant Muslims but for some reason didn't name them. Let me ask; has a Muslim ever tried to convert you to Islam? That has never happened to me, but many Christians have tried. When a mosque was built near my parents' house, it didn't convert me or anyone else that I know of and it didn't erase the half-dozen churches (or the Hindu temple) in the same neighborhood"

Fair enough but look what happens in countries where Muslims make up a majority. These countries tend to have religion as a cornerstone of the law of the land. My example of Malaysia, a supposed success story of tolerance, is far from what people is secular societies would call tolerant. Even in the UK, where Muslims are a minority, we've seen the creation of Sharia courts which should be regarded as an utter disgrace in a 21st century European democracy. As you can imagine, these courts are not progressive. It has to be said that many Muslims opposed the creation of these courts but there was certainly enough support to see many of them created.

I'm pretty sure that an increase of the Muslim population will lead to further calls for ideas which should alarm people who believe in secular ideas.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Yoshitsune "Again, Muslims do generally assimilate. The vast majority do." You're wrong. But let's assume that only 1% of the Muslims are radicals. That means with 2 billion followers there are 20 million people who want to kill you in the name of Allah. I think that should justify some concern.

"And again, what is your reasoning or evidence that they want to convert others to Islam?" The proliferation of mosques and violent protests and spreading of Shariah law in other countries. Remember, these are people leaving their countries because of religious persecution; these are Muslims leaving Islamic countries and then trying to recreate the same conditions in the countries they have immigrated to.

"I have never seen, experienced, or even heard of Muslims proselytising in countries they have emigrated to." Then you live under a rock because it's happening all around. Again, maybe not in Japan because the Japanese police force won't tolerate it. Get on the net (and not just this predominately Left-wing site) and check out Muslims in France, Sweden, Dearborn Michigan, etc.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@jimizo

Fair enough but look what happens in countries where Muslims make up a majority. These countries tend to have religion as a cornerstone of the law of the land

Aye, they do. It varies a lot from country to country, but they do also mostly have religious minorities and those minorities are tolerated except when the likes of Isis or the Taliban get their hands on the reigns. Isis and the Taliban represent a small minority of the global Islamic population and I don't think it's fair to paint all Muslims with that brush as samwatters is doing.

Even in the UK, where Muslims are a minority, we've seen the creation of Sharia courts which should be regarded as an utter disgrace in a 21st century European democracy

I'm also from the UK, and don't approve of having sharia courts. The courts you refer to, though, don't actually have any legal power; their rulings cannot contravene British laws, they have no jurisdiction over criminal cases, and they're only used for the settlement of civic issues between Muslims. Within that framework, legally speaking it's just a way of negotiating to end minor disputes without going to court - like if I broke your car and just offered to pay for the repairs, you wouldn't need to take me to court. The sharia way of doing that is not a way I would ever subscribe to, obviously, as I don't believe in their religious doctrines. But if some people want to do that and it doesn't go against the law of the land, then I guess that's up to them.

@samwatters

You're wrong.

"I am right and you are wrong" doesn't constitute a strong argument. You need some reasoning, some evidence, or some facts & figures to prove that I'm wrong. However, the figures you've provided are figures you just completely made up, aren't they?

But let's assume that only 1% of the Muslims are radicals.

"Only 1%"? That is a ridiculous overestimate of the percentage of radical Muslims, by two orders of magnitude. If 1% of Musims were radical, the UK would have some 30,000 extremists. In fact the number of British Muslims thought to be extremists is in the hundreds, not the tens of thousands. So no, I won't assume that 1% of Muslims are radicals, your figure is absurd - it's more like 0.01%.

That means with 2 billion followers there are 20 million people who want to kill you in the name of Allah. I think that should justify some concern.

You're just throwing out scary sounding figures. There are 1.7 billion Muslims on earth, and only a fraction of one percent of them are in the likes of Isis, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban i.e. a total of hundreds of thousands, not twenty million.

Of course that is still hundreds of thousands too many; but when people are throwing around baseless claims that 1% of Muslims are radical, the result is balaclava-clad nationalists protesting on the streets of Melbourne.

The proliferation of mosques

...does not in any way constitute an attempt to convert non-Muslims to their faith. They are just building places for them to practice their faith; not to force us to join it.

Then you live under a rock because it's happening all around.

No, I live in Taiwan.

Get on the net (and not just this predominately Left-wing site) and check out Muslims in France, Sweden, Dearborn Michigan, etc.

I really don't need to get on the net to 'check out Muslims' in France or Sweden; I'm from Europe. Perhaps you need to get off the net and check out some Muslim people face to face and see that they're just normal people.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

@Yoshitsune. Fair enough. Enjoy yourself. Perhaps you should open up your home to some of the migrants. Either way I think we are done.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Samwatters - Excellent posts. I'm in full agreement.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I think a lot has to do with the Muslim communities' perceived lack of hostility towards terrorists and extremists that get people upset. The Muslim community should be doing far more than they have been to counter extremists. Getting non-Muslims involved in all this doesn't win them any friends

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@sam

Perhaps you should open up your home to some of the migrants.

I am a migrant. And if you're a westerner living in Japan, so are you.

Either way I think we are done.

Well, I agree that continuing the discussion is unlikely to lead us anywhere. But if you start making fearmongering claims that one percent of Muslims are extremists under any future articles, expect to be called out on it again.

@dcog9065

I think a lot has to do with the Muslim communities' perceived lack of hostility towards terrorists and extremists that get people upset

Could be. The word 'perceived' is key. This is a statement from the imam of the mosque near my folks' place in England:

"ISIS or IS neither speak for Islam nor is their poisonous ideology shared by Muslims across the globe. Once again, British Muslims unfortunately find ourselves in a position of having to publicly disassociate ourselves with the actions of a despicable group of individuals who have hijacked our religion of peace for their own political and territorial goals. Their actions are an absolute affront to Islam and are unequivocally condemned by Muslims throughout the globe. The terrible shootings and savage murders are not only an attack on the people of France, but an attack on all of us. Through their evil actions, the terrorists have shown that they have no regard for any religion and are an affront to human dignity and human conscience. Terrorism has no religion and British Muslims are committed to fighting ISIS’s toxic ideology, wherever in the world it is being promoted."

The media doesn't report this sort of statement nearly enough. It's pretty clear where most of the Muslim community stands on this; we mustn't malign an entire community based on the actions of a rogue 0.01% of their members.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@outrider. Thanks!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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