This photo released by North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency shows North Korean leader Kim Jong Il sitting with former U.S. President Bill Clinton and his delegation members in Pyongyang.

2 pardoned U.S. journalists leave North Korea with Bill Clinton

Wednesday 05th August, 08:29 AM JST

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mp516 at 04:33 AM JST - 6th August

STUPID Journalists! I wonder How much or what the US gave up to get these 2 idiots back. Especially the one with a child to put her through such ordeal. Besides...what hard labor? They look just fine, probably stationed in some hotel with room service while the rest of the country is really starving.
LastBestHope at 05:31 AM JST - 6th August

The state-run media (in America, not North Korea) can't get enough of this supposed 'rescue' of two misguided idealists working for Clinton's former VP.

For amusement I like to imagine what the tone and reaction would be if two women working for former VP Cheney were taken by the North Koreans and released only after former president Bush had traveled to Pyongyang, groveled before Dear Leader Kimmie,and paid a ransom.
JoeBigs at 07:58 AM JST - 6th August

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August I am glad the ladies are released. Now, let's see what an ex President and the current "Saviour of the World" can deliver.

Good point, but if you look at what the North really wanted you may see it for what it was. They want us back at the table and just gave us a pawn to have us talk to them.

The North tried to get us to flinch with their use of missile. When that did not work they tried it with nukes. Well that did not work either and they were getting worried. So what did they do? They sent a request for a sit down with any top level American.

Now we have the advantage in any up coming talks.

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August I truly suspect that we will be back to the same old games with the country as we have in the past.

That is what the North wants but every time we went back to the table it was under their terms. This it seems we hold an advantage.

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August And if you call that skilled diplomacy, then "W" was just as skilled. At least during his time they didn't explode any nukes.

W's use of diplomacy was little more than a give and give. From the get go his administration tried "the fist in your face tactic". When we went to the table North Korea had many advantages because we went in there with the bully tactic. That did not work and eight years later we are back to the table again. But this time we have an advantage.

Alphaape at 11:50 PM JST - 5th August Prety amazing also since as you seem to think that because I question what deals were made that I am on the right, when most of my professors were lefties as yourself.

Funny how you place me in the leftist spectrum because I questioned your argument. Interesting (scribbles note on paper brain) very interesting indeed. So how long have you felt anger when others question you? Hm

Alphaape at 11:50 PM JST - 5th August So, let me type this slowly so you can understand:

My my no one has ever been so kind as to type so sloooow to allow even me to understand their brilliance....LOL

I must have gotten to you and your brilliance. For that I am sorry, but if you would open up one or more of your books and see who else calls diplomacy a game of chess. It may surprise you.....

History is a great teacher as long as you learn from it.
JoeBigs at 08:58 AM JST - 6th August

tuneintokyo at 08:06 PM JST - 5th August What did the USA pay for their release? What will that money be used for?

I was wondering about your post yesterday. What makes you think what they got was money?

Badsey at 12:27 AM JST - 6th August Alphaape: Being a U.S. Taxpayer your ultimate costs will be loss of all constitutional rights and slavery for yourself. =You are a debtor to the Federal Reserve system. It is not about money (fiat paper), but control of all assets.

Once more the talks turn to the loss of all our rights because of that evil evil use of DIPLOMACY. As always Badsey a very interesting argument there.

Badsey at 12:27 AM JST - 6th August These bankers want to control every country and make it one controlled by the elites (not you). In their minds you owe them and have their money, but you must slave for them (work for the lowest amount of return)

So is North Korea part of this great conspiracy? Hm....Now where did I put my tip skull cap?

Now back to the evils of diplomacy.

Alphaape at 11:50 PM JST - 5th August But it was also the great Chinese philospher that said something to the effect that war was just another means of Diplomacy.

Correction here, if I am not mistake Karl von Clausewitz was the person who made that statement, I will find it for you. Sun Tzu quoted something a bit different.

Alphaape at 12:13 AM JST - 6th August Again I am asking, what did we really accomplish.

I will use a few quotes from great strategist of history...

Sun Tzu: When envoys are sent with compliments in their mouths, it is a sign that the enemy wishes for a truce.

Karl von Clausewitz quotes:
No one starts a war -- or rather no one in his senses ought to do so -- without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve in that war and how he intends to conduct it.

Karl von Clausewitz quotes:
War is not merely a political act but a real political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse, a carrying out of the same by other means.

I believe the above quote is the one you were referring to.....

Will Rogers: Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.

Tony Benn: All war represents a failure of diplomacy
Alphaape at 11:53 AM JST - 6th August

Funny how you place me in the leftist spectrum because I questioned your argument. Interesting (scribbles note on paper brain) very interesting indeed. So how long have you felt anger when others question you? Hm

JoeBigs, I guess I am just as guilty as the rest of the posters here in associating you with the left. It seems that if anyone posts here saying that they really don't agree with Obama, they are thrown to the right and forever branded as a "W" lover. It seems as if it is the default argument for this board.

Interesting points you make, but I still think if nK wants to really get treated well at the diplomatic table, how about at least living up to the agreements that they have all ready said they would instead of going back on all of them. Better yet, why not show that they will give a bit of relief to their own people and I am sure the world will probably treat them a bit better.

But, as I have stated, I really don't see what we have gained by getting these two out with a former ex President. Glad that they are released, but what will it get us in the long run, when in the past we have given them tremendous amounts of food aid and other support, and they still are the same old place.
apecNetworks at 06:03 PM JST - 6th August

This is good, but the HISTORIC achievement would be the successful resolution in the 6parties talks - that will live on even when all the participants are gone.
hworta269 at 09:47 PM JST - 6th August

The sunshine policy was a South Korean policy and it ended when the DPRK blew up a nuke, not because of Bush.
zurcronium at 11:08 PM JST - 6th August

hworta269,

nice try but revisionist storytelling will not cut it. Sunshine policy ended in 2000 when bush took over from clinton and announced that the USA was revisiting its NK policy. All communication stopped and the SK government was cut off at the knees. Then the axis of evil speech and NK kicks in its nuclear efforts. Then years later they detonate the bomb.

Facts, things you republicants just never seem to get right. Like where Obama was born.

Anyway, a democratic ex-president does more in one day than bush did as president in 8 years. Score, the big dog one, the bush losers 6 as in 6 bombs that NK developed while bush was illegally invading Iraq. The bush NK strategy by any measure was a total and complete failure. Once again the democrats have to clean up and restart a sane policy after years or republican failure.
amerijap at 04:18 AM JST - 7th August

mp516 at 04:33 AM JST - 6th August

STUPID Journalists! I wonder How much or what the US gave up to get these 2 idiots back. Especially the one with a child to put her through such ordeal. Besides...what hard labor? They look just fine, probably stationed in some hotel with room service while the rest of the country is really starving.

In what respect do you think they are stupid? Are you referring to their actions that put themselves at a life-threatening risk??? I agree they should be held responsible for their own choices and actions, but that does NOT mean they are STUPID. They are the journalists who are taking responsibilities for uncovering and reporting the truth, not some wandering travelers who sneak into the borders and end up being captured by an autocratic regime. Some people will regard their actions as mistakes or wrong choices, but that is not the same as stupidity.
hworta269 at 06:23 AM JST - 7th August

I lived in South Korea for 3 years, the sunshine policy had nothing to do with America whatsoever, it was a South Korean policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Policy

On October 9, 2006, following the nuclear and missile tests, South Korea suspended aid shipments to the North and put their military on high alert status. There is much concern regarding how South Korea can maintain a cooperative policy towards the North when such provocative acts are occurring. [22] Nonetheless, the government of South Korea has insisted that at least some aspects of the Sunshine Policy, including the Mount Gumgang Tourist Region and the Kaesong Industrial Region will continue.

It did not end until North Korea acted foolishly which had NOTHING to do with Bush. You people seem to have a psychosis about Bush though.

North Korea got their propaganda pictures and probably a lot of concessions. They tested a nuke right when Bush got elected and thats a fact of history also that had a little something to do with their isolation. The democrats "sane" policy was to let him develop nuclear weapons.
LastBestHope at 07:42 AM JST - 7th August

Hworta269's post is an excellent refutation of zurcronium's shrill talking points. Unlike the rest of us here, it seems hworta269 has actually lived in Korea.

It always amuses me the way so many America Leftists, like this zurcronium fellow, seem to believe that every move made by nations half way around the globe can only be a reaction which is, mysteriously enough, in perfect accord with his personal feelings about whichever American president he chooses to link the situation to.
TheGeneral at 08:40 AM JST - 7th August

I wonder How much or what the US gave up

I see that some are dutifully parroting the Faux News sound byte concerning President Clinton's accomplishment.

I feel kind of sorry for these people. It must be really confusing to base one's ideology on constant baseless conjecture delivered by bleating talking heads.
zurcronium at 11:05 AM JST - 7th August

Again, nice try from the bleating crowd of losers who parrot fox news. I too lived in Korea for about 2 years so followed this matter closely.

It matters now what the facts are with the republicants, perfect example is the birthers. Facts are just avoided. The sunshine policy, created under President Kim and supported by Clinton was killed by bush while Kim was still President of Korea. He won a noble prize for his leadership on this policy and bush just cut him off at the knees once he became President. Facts boys, not your make believe world or WMD in Iraq and Obama being born in Kenya.

Bush casts shadow on Korean 'sunshine policy'

Moderator: The URL will suffice.
hworta269 at 01:30 PM JST - 8th August

Bush halted aid to North Korea after they admitted they had nukes, which they did and tested. That's a fact, and I even quoted a reference to the sunshine policy which had nothing to do whatsoever with America and was halted by South Korea themselves which at the time were very anti American. North Korea not any American president got the sunshine policy ended. South Korea to boot found a few north korean spies working in the anti American groups in South Korea to boot.

North Korean defectors were the harshest critics of the sunshine policy which rewarded North Korea for stopping bad behavior they started for no reason whatsoever.
societymike at 01:10 PM JST - 11th August

I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton promised the best US medical Doctors and technology to come to Pyeongyang to treat Kim's pancreatic cancer.