NYC terror case latest of many homegrown plots

Friday 22nd May, 05:55 AM JST

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likeitis at 04:10 PM JST - 22nd May

skipthesong: No, you took the approach where you came to a religion's defense, even before anything negative was posted about it.

I did not defend the religion. I said these guys are phoney baloney.

And are you trying to tell us that Taraposa's comments were positive?

Look, religion is bad and at the moment, Roman Catholism is noting but perversion and Islam is nothing but violence.

Gee, I wonder why I would bother to set my fingers in motion with comments like this? I got my own problems with both religions, but you are reaching VERY VERY far with this.

I said I don't care!

Must have missed it.

I bet I've been in more Mosques than you have my friend

So would I. But I can tell you that by entering the many churches I have, I learned a lot more about the people in them than about Christianity itself.
skipthesong at 04:57 PM JST - 22nd May

Nation of Islam is Islam about as much as a hamburger is made of ham, or silver spray paint contains real silver." That's is not a fair statement.
likeitis at 06:32 PM JST - 22nd May

skipthesong : That's is not a fair statement.

You are right. They don't eat pork and they are militant. So they are plenty Muslim for several posters here.

And the fact that they think Allah appeared as a person by the name of Wallace D. Fard in July 1930 is but a trifle. And that they believe the latest prophet is not the Muhammad we all know and love, but rather Elijah Muhammad, who was Elijah Poole before that and died in 1975, also a trifle. And never mind that anyone else that calls themselves Muslim considers both those facts to be utter blasphemy.

You can put lipstick on a pig, and its still a pig. But you rip the guts and brains out and fill it wires and gears and a speaker in the throat and remote control mechanisms, it might still walk and squeal like a pig, but ain't no pig.

Even if they were teaching these guys real Islam in prison, they still are not real Muslims. They are just nutjobs incapable of getting anything right. If they are NOI, they are just double the phoney.
teleprompter at 07:34 PM JST - 22nd May

Kinda bad timing for Obama.
jeancolmar at 08:14 PM JST - 22nd May

Bad timing for Obama? How? The plotters were caught. Seems like good timing to me.
skipthesong at 08:29 PM JST - 22nd May

liketis: I don't see members of NOI going around up in arms ready and willing to kill wantonly. Also, I have personally known people who entered NOI and have become pretty good people. They may lean a bit towards separatism, and a bit against Anglos, but that doesn't bother me.

Still, I prefer we didn't even have that, in its religious form. Had these recent guys no entered a religious sect, they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now. Why this: they still are not real Muslims. They are just nutjobs incapable of getting anything right. If they are NOI, they are just double the phoney." Why, now we are saying who is a real muslim and who is not? No, they thought they would be killing in the name of their religion. They're real. Anyone willing to do that is the real, raw deal of that said religion. That is why it must be banned. Religion is so outdated.
HonestDictator at 11:42 PM JST - 22nd May

C'mon skip, even you can figure out that religion isn't going to be banned because it would just be athiests forcing their beliefs on others. Can't have it both ways, just be happy with the seperation of church and state like the rest of us and fight to maintain that balance.

My uncle (Born US native citizen) just happens to be muslim, and he's so far out in left field it amazes me. Not everyday you get to hear a relative relishing the idea that the country he was born and raised in will experience jihad. So I can understand how easy it is for really ignorant people to fall into such radical beliefs because they apparantly don't have the wisdom or intellect to know the actual difference between right or wrong, let alone care about the laws that entitle every person to basic human rights.

When I was in college one of my former roommates at the dorm was so strict on his religious beliefs everything else became secondary... He didn't last long before he was kicked out of the school because he assumed "Allah's law" was above all else and just wouldn't adapt to the curricular schedule.
Taka313 at 12:46 AM JST - 23rd May

I'd like to know how many people had to be waterboarded in order to stop this crime.

Because, you know, dick cheney's daughter's hair dresser said on fox news that waterboarding is what keeps us safe from terrorists and stuff.

Taka
Suzu1 at 03:39 AM JST - 23rd May

A grand total of three detainees were waterboarded - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim Nashiri.
Helter_Skelter at 07:22 AM JST - 23rd May

Likeitis: I doubt you really know much about Islam or the Koran. And you do? Or Skip? Or WillB? Or Helter Skelter?"

Why do I need to know about Islam or the Koran? Since when has it become my responsibility to become a scholar on a religion I'm not particularly interested in? I have been forced to learn something about it since it's involved in nearly every conflict in the world today and my county has been attacked by Muslims. But that's the only reason. So if you're trying to impress us with your intimate knowledge of Islam, don't bother.
WilliB at 08:30 AM JST - 23rd May

While Obama sends US troops on a wild goose chase in the mountains of Afghanistan, new jihadis are trained right in the US among the prison population.

One couldnt wish for a better demonstration of the absurdity of the situation.
skipthesong at 08:33 AM JST - 23rd May

I'd like to know how many people had to be waterboarded in order to stop this crime." I don't know if you realize what you said, but you just confirmed that torture works....
likeitis at 09:17 AM JST - 23rd May

skipthesong: I don't know if you realize what you said, but you just confirmed that torture works....

No Skip, you just confirmed that sarcasm is beyond you.
likeitis at 09:46 AM JST - 23rd May

skipthesong: I don't see members of NOI going around up in arms ready and willing to kill wantonly.

You know, its bad enough that, as standard debate practice, that people ALWAYS take the worst possible meaning from someone's words when there are two or more choices available. But this is not even that crappy practice. You are just completely redefining the word militant. You now think it means "willing to kill wantonly"? It does not even necessarily mean to be armed! Are you serious, or just having fun? If you are serious, look it up.

Nation of Islam is so NOT Islam that many of its famous members converted to real Islam. Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, his wife Betty Shabazz, and Warith Deen Mohammed, none other than the son of Elijah Muhammad himself. Nation of Islam is about as Islam as Haitian Voodoo is Christian. If that does not compute with you, look up Voodoo.

Also, I have personally known people who entered NOI and have become pretty good people.

Oh, well that seals it. I am sure some pretty good people practice Voodoo, so its as Christian as they say it is now. Um, NOT.

They may lean a bit towards separatism, and a bit against Anglos, but that doesn't bother me.

Well it bothers real Muslims quite a lot. Their beliefs about whites and their separatism, and their non-acceptance of white members goes against Islam.

Why, now we are saying who is a real muslim and who is not?

Not just now skip, I have done this several times, always based on what I read from the Koran (usually by rooting out far better written passages than the irresponsibly thin ones readers here have presented, as well as observing what most Muslims think or would seem to think, there being a billion of them in this world.)

Anyone willing to do that is the real, raw deal of that said religion.

Nonsense. Just because they say that is why does not mean that is why. That is like when a schizo person said "God told me to kill him", you are actually beleiving that has something to do with religion. The schizo person has actually just associated the voices in his head with God. Its an excuse, albeit not a remotely consciously chosen one. These nuts are not much different. They associated their violent tendencies with religion to justify their own violent tendencies. Or, you can take the NOI is bunk route too if you want. I believe both.
skipthesong at 11:46 AM JST - 23rd May

That is like when a schizo person said "God told me to kill him", you are actually beleiving that has something to do with religion. The schizo person has actually just associated the voices in his head with God"

Nut case, yes. But he/she got taught some where in their sermons that its ok. I know, you are gonna say that its that one church/mosque, but we are not even allowed to debate on how religion should be taught and what they can and can not teach inside those walls. That's a big problem to me.

Their beliefs about whites and their separatism, and their non-acceptance of white members goes against Islam." I don't believe that and in Chicago, there are a few whites that are members, I believe. I seen a few whites at the events.. but not I don't believe you that Muslims have a problem about their views on whites. How many white Muslims are there, not converts, but real ones?
I think you are confusing NOI with 5%'ers (if you don't know about them, I'll give you a link or two), now they I do have an issue with, they don't even like Latinos much.