NYC terror case latest of many homegrown plots
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Taraposa
The islam = the religion of love and liberality
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Taraposa
terrorist muslems????? what a cioncidence!!!
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likeitis
Ramzi Yousef, a 1993 WTC bomber, converted to Christianity in prison. Nothing more real deal than a prison convert, I tell you what.
These guys were not looking for religion. They were looking for excuses. The New Testament can also be twisted into excuses, and it has, a great many times. It just is not in vogue with inmates right now. Today, the Koran is. And I tell you what, willful translations from Arabic into English sure help when you are trying to convey a particular excuse toward wanton violence through twisting the actual meaning.
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skipthesong
These guys were not looking for religion. They were looking for excuses." And a small little mosque gave the power to advance those excuses into action. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521038,00.html
Ban religion now!
willful translations from Arabic into English sure help when you are trying to convey a particular excuse toward wanton violence through twisting the actual meaning." So, tell us, what's the actual translation.. since you feel so enlightened and we are "stupid".
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likeitis
Gee, I don't remember calling you or anyone else stupid Skip. But if my words made you feel that I was calling you stupid (and that would be you skip, and no one else) then so be it.
Anyway, we would need to go verse for verse. Pick one. I have seen plenty of translations, and it does not take a genius to look at two translations and guess which is probably the more precise one. The more precise one tends to have details and qualifiers, something that deceivers tend to leave out. And the deceivers of this board either never bother to find alternate translations or they purposely choose the thinner more bendable one, and shape accordingly.
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Den Den
these homegrown idiots should wake up to reality...nothing can be obtained through violence.
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skipthesong
Anyway, we would need to go verse for verse. Pick one. I have seen plenty of translations" Translating word, or the thoughts behind them?
anyway, I don't need any. I have seen enough with people looking for excuses every time something like this happens. Look, religion is bad and at the moment, Roman Catholism is noting but perversion and Islam is nothing but violence.
YOu can not tell me anything that would change my mind that what ever anger people have in their hearts is enhanced when they enter a religion.
Religion is for people who can't handle reality.
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teleprompter
So ? Carlos the Jackal converted to Islam while in prison.
And have you forgotten your talking points?
Ramzi Yousef is not an example your side should be using - he held an Iraqi passport.
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adaydream
I'm glad that the FBI moved in and got involved on this plot. This could have been a real catrastophy. If they had been smarter they might have gotten away with it or something more serious. < :-)
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teleprompter
But you give no examples in either case.
I doubt you really know much about Islam or the Koran.
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likeitis
And you do? Or Skip? Or WillB? Or Helter Skelter?
This is not about how much you know about Islam. Its about being able to spot a charlatan. I never said or even acted like I know all there is to know about Islam. All I ever did was lay some ridiculous notions to rest, point for point.
I have explained my problems with Islam. The difference is, mine make sense and are not agenda driven.
What, you don't have access to the internet now?? I have provided several examples these last few months. Where were you? Out teleprompting?
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teleprompter
That's rich, coming from you,eh.
But the facts remain - Islam is the fastest growing religion in our prisons, particularly among young black American prisoners.
And before you try and blame it on the US, "the system", the Man, consider this: Mohammedans are vastly over-represented in European jails. In France, where Muslims account for 12 percent of the population, Muslim officials say the prison population is 60 to 70 percent Muslim.
There are many documented cases of attacks like what these nutjobs had in mind.
Just search "sudden jihad syndrome."
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skipthesong
teleprompter: I doubt you really know much about Islam or the Koran. And you do? Or Skip? Or WillB? Or Helter Skelter?"
I bet I've been in more Mosques than you have my friend... but, I have never ever claimed I know anything about it either. I said I don't care!
All I ever did was lay some ridiculous notions to rest, point for point." No, you took the approach where you came to a religion's defense, even before anything negative was posted about it. And what point is that I have that needs to be laid to rest? I have called for the banning of all religions.
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skipthesong
Anyway, back to the case. I for one am very happy that nothing happened, I have had co workers who lived in that area (the ones that made it from 9-11 minus 800+ that is).
However, I am dismayed. Here we have Muslims hunting unsuspecting Jews world-wide and people are looking for understanding, reasoning.
I have been very alarmed by the new left's defense of right winging muslims and already, there is talk where these guys may get off lightly; yup, they are going to play the race card, the religion card, the hard life kid card, and lastly they are most likely going to play the entrapment card.
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TheQuestion
FBI did good. Nice to see tax dollars being put to appropriate use.
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BennyCohen
Like the Miami case, this is clearly entrapment. These guys are guilty of being stupid and gullible. I don't see how buying "cameras at Wal-Mart" is amateurish. It's obvious who was the brains behind this operation.
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teleprompter
So why can't you say who?
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likeitis
A fact only a very simple mind makes a full conclusion on. I don't need to do any research to tell you that Christianity was once the fastest growing religion in our prisons. The fact tells us nothing but that we need to dig more; A LOT more.
But before I even bother to dance with this continued charade about expertise on Islam with JT posters, we need to establish one fact right now: These guys would not happen to have converted to Nation of Islam? Because Nation of Islam is Islam about as much as a hamburger is made of ham, or silver spray paint contains real silver.
I would also like to know which you are accusing American black prisoners in general of converting to teleprompter. Surely, you know?
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likeitis
I did not defend the religion. I said these guys are phoney baloney.
And are you trying to tell us that Taraposa's comments were positive?
Gee, I wonder why I would bother to set my fingers in motion with comments like this? I got my own problems with both religions, but you are reaching VERY VERY far with this.
Must have missed it.
So would I. But I can tell you that by entering the many churches I have, I learned a lot more about the people in them than about Christianity itself.
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skipthesong
Nation of Islam is Islam about as much as a hamburger is made of ham, or silver spray paint contains real silver." That's is not a fair statement.
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likeitis
You are right. They don't eat pork and they are militant. So they are plenty Muslim for several posters here.
And the fact that they think Allah appeared as a person by the name of Wallace D. Fard in July 1930 is but a trifle. And that they believe the latest prophet is not the Muhammad we all know and love, but rather Elijah Muhammad, who was Elijah Poole before that and died in 1975, also a trifle. And never mind that anyone else that calls themselves Muslim considers both those facts to be utter blasphemy.
You can put lipstick on a pig, and its still a pig. But you rip the guts and brains out and fill it wires and gears and a speaker in the throat and remote control mechanisms, it might still walk and squeal like a pig, but ain't no pig.
Even if they were teaching these guys real Islam in prison, they still are not real Muslims. They are just nutjobs incapable of getting anything right. If they are NOI, they are just double the phoney.
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teleprompter
Kinda bad timing for Obama.
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jeancolmar
Bad timing for Obama? How? The plotters were caught. Seems like good timing to me.
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skipthesong
liketis: I don't see members of NOI going around up in arms ready and willing to kill wantonly. Also, I have personally known people who entered NOI and have become pretty good people. They may lean a bit towards separatism, and a bit against Anglos, but that doesn't bother me.
Still, I prefer we didn't even have that, in its religious form. Had these recent guys no entered a religious sect, they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now. Why this: they still are not real Muslims. They are just nutjobs incapable of getting anything right. If they are NOI, they are just double the phoney." Why, now we are saying who is a real muslim and who is not? No, they thought they would be killing in the name of their religion. They're real. Anyone willing to do that is the real, raw deal of that said religion. That is why it must be banned. Religion is so outdated.
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HonestDictator
C'mon skip, even you can figure out that religion isn't going to be banned because it would just be athiests forcing their beliefs on others. Can't have it both ways, just be happy with the seperation of church and state like the rest of us and fight to maintain that balance.
My uncle (Born US native citizen) just happens to be muslim, and he's so far out in left field it amazes me. Not everyday you get to hear a relative relishing the idea that the country he was born and raised in will experience jihad. So I can understand how easy it is for really ignorant people to fall into such radical beliefs because they apparantly don't have the wisdom or intellect to know the actual difference between right or wrong, let alone care about the laws that entitle every person to basic human rights.
When I was in college one of my former roommates at the dorm was so strict on his religious beliefs everything else became secondary... He didn't last long before he was kicked out of the school because he assumed "Allah's law" was above all else and just wouldn't adapt to the curricular schedule.
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Taka313
I'd like to know how many people had to be waterboarded in order to stop this crime.
Because, you know, dick cheney's daughter's hair dresser said on fox news that waterboarding is what keeps us safe from terrorists and stuff.
Taka
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Suzu1
A grand total of three detainees were waterboarded - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim Nashiri.
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Helter_Skelter
Why do I need to know about Islam or the Koran? Since when has it become my responsibility to become a scholar on a religion I'm not particularly interested in? I have been forced to learn something about it since it's involved in nearly every conflict in the world today and my county has been attacked by Muslims. But that's the only reason. So if you're trying to impress us with your intimate knowledge of Islam, don't bother.
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WilliB
While Obama sends US troops on a wild goose chase in the mountains of Afghanistan, new jihadis are trained right in the US among the prison population.
One couldnt wish for a better demonstration of the absurdity of the situation.
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skipthesong
I'd like to know how many people had to be waterboarded in order to stop this crime." I don't know if you realize what you said, but you just confirmed that torture works....
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likeitis
No Skip, you just confirmed that sarcasm is beyond you.
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likeitis
You know, its bad enough that, as standard debate practice, that people ALWAYS take the worst possible meaning from someone's words when there are two or more choices available. But this is not even that crappy practice. You are just completely redefining the word militant. You now think it means "willing to kill wantonly"? It does not even necessarily mean to be armed! Are you serious, or just having fun? If you are serious, look it up.
Nation of Islam is so NOT Islam that many of its famous members converted to real Islam. Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, his wife Betty Shabazz, and Warith Deen Mohammed, none other than the son of Elijah Muhammad himself. Nation of Islam is about as Islam as Haitian Voodoo is Christian. If that does not compute with you, look up Voodoo.
Oh, well that seals it. I am sure some pretty good people practice Voodoo, so its as Christian as they say it is now. Um, NOT.
Well it bothers real Muslims quite a lot. Their beliefs about whites and their separatism, and their non-acceptance of white members goes against Islam.
Not just now skip, I have done this several times, always based on what I read from the Koran (usually by rooting out far better written passages than the irresponsibly thin ones readers here have presented, as well as observing what most Muslims think or would seem to think, there being a billion of them in this world.)
Nonsense. Just because they say that is why does not mean that is why. That is like when a schizo person said "God told me to kill him", you are actually beleiving that has something to do with religion. The schizo person has actually just associated the voices in his head with God. Its an excuse, albeit not a remotely consciously chosen one. These nuts are not much different. They associated their violent tendencies with religion to justify their own violent tendencies. Or, you can take the NOI is bunk route too if you want. I believe both.
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skipthesong
That is like when a schizo person said "God told me to kill him", you are actually beleiving that has something to do with religion. The schizo person has actually just associated the voices in his head with God"
Nut case, yes. But he/she got taught some where in their sermons that its ok. I know, you are gonna say that its that one church/mosque, but we are not even allowed to debate on how religion should be taught and what they can and can not teach inside those walls. That's a big problem to me.
Their beliefs about whites and their separatism, and their non-acceptance of white members goes against Islam." I don't believe that and in Chicago, there are a few whites that are members, I believe. I seen a few whites at the events.. but not I don't believe you that Muslims have a problem about their views on whites. How many white Muslims are there, not converts, but real ones?
I think you are confusing NOI with 5%'ers (if you don't know about them, I'll give you a link or two), now they I do have an issue with, they don't even like Latinos much.
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