Obama braces for town hall health talk
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0
Wolfpack
Yeah, President Obama is happy to have an exchange of views with those people who oppose his expensive health care plan. As long as those un-American swastika carrying traitors sensibly and reasonably agree with him. Otherwise, they'll be put on the White House's enemies list. Although most Americans do not support socialized medicine, Obama will do his best to ram it through Congress on a partisan basis anyway. In the past, it was considered a necessity for such large programs to be passed on a bi-partisan basis. But now it's all about Obama's domestic agenda so the people be damned. That's change the Speaker Pelosi can believe in...
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Taka313
I hope the secret service is prepared. There is going to be a lot of angry people there sharing a collective brain cell and a pocket full of B.S., spoon fed to them by glenn beck and rush limbaugh.
Taka
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skipthesong
any anger is more to due with the prez and his admin's fault for not getting the word at there properly as well as rushing this bill when things are still falling apart.
the accusations I have heard and the actions of the dems recently are appalling. Only the blind wouldn't admit that.
Why don't they at the very least make some type of test runs? Have all government employees start with paying for this first All elected official must enrol in it. They should not have the choice And when the heck are they going to provide some written legislation instead of going at it as they walk? And why does it have to be now?
spoon fed to them by glenn beck and rush limbaugh." Against those spoon fed by Queen Nancy, the rich white b, living in a gated community.
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GJDailleult
USA is the only industrialized country without universal health care. This is because either A) USA is smart and everybody else are stupid socialists, B) the rest of the world is smart and the USA is a country of ungovernable fools. No other explanations for the difference.
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tungincheke
Obama is the most gifted propagandist to lead the nation to ruin. power to him.
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LastBestHope
Current US healthcare is so bad that Canadians arrive at our border state hospitals cash in hand. They have been doing this for years now.
It probably has something to do with Glenn Beck.
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skipthesong
GJD: The US is also a country amongst the industrialized world that doesn't have mandatory service - should we start that too?. We have freedom of the press, something many other countries do not have - should we tell our press to ease up?, we have, while it has flaws, a good legal system - should we start copying others?, we have an easy to get on and use welfare system - should we use other models? In Japan, a kid under 15 can not get a transplanted organs (segveral other countries are the same), should we copy that?
don't get me wrong, the health care industry needs a lot of work, but what the government is proposing, and has yet to lay out but want it to be passed anyway, is not a good enough answer.
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Taka313
Yeah, and we reciprocate by sending our poor and elderly to Canada to get the prescription medications they can't afford in the states.
Probably because rush is hoarding.
Taka
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amerijap
In what respect? Destroying the free economy?? Ditto to the for-profit private health-care industries and the Republicans who make a false advertisement on Canadian national health care system, which is way better than the US.
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LastBestHope
I don't know a single American who has been 'sent' to Canada to buy prescription medications.
Is Glenn Beck withholding something?
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skipthesong
eah, and we reciprocate by sending our poor and elderly to Canada to get the prescription medications they can't afford in the states." And this health care bill, which is still at this point not even written, is going to fix that? As for poor, hey, the US has medicaid, something my family used when my dad died for three years, don't start with that the poor don't get help crap. We used the heck out it including braces for my sister, STD treatment for my brother, mom's corn removal..... No, if your poor, you have medicaid and you don't pay for medicines. We even used that at the VA when I worked there.
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Taka313
My multi-named buddy has a point. No one is SENT against their will to Canada to get their prescription drugs at a price cheaper than in the U.S.
That is absolutely true. Those people CHOOSE to go to Canada to get the medications they require that they cannot afford in the U.S. or they beg others that are going to buy for them what they cannot afford in the U.S.
Thanks lastbesthope. You did a fine job of making my point.
Taka
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LastBestHope
Why is President Obama attending meetings that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has already declared are 'un-American.'
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LastBestHope
So it is all about CHOICE.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Central Planning can't deliver - unless the Post Office at Xmas is your idea of efficiency.
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adaydream
skipthesong at 09:58 AM JST - 11th August
GJD: The US is also a country amongst the industrialized world that doesn't have mandatory service - should we start that too?.
shipthesong - Yes we should.
But on the topic of the town hall meetings, the GOP has been sending out their hired henchmen/women who are there just to shout down the message.
I haven't seen this degree of sending in the dogs since Richard Nixon.
These are antagonist sent there to scream and holler and just disrupt the messenger's answers to those who want to hear something. But they can't get their messege through the distractions.
They aren't un-American, they're just rude and out of line. < :-)
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adaydream
It's so funny hearing the GOP crying about this un-American crap. After george bush's lies and misinformaion and calling the non-believers un-American, this is calling the kettle black.
There's no way to block the truth by being civil, but by being rude and acting the fools these antagonist can blur the truths with their distractions. < :-)
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LastBestHope
I can't see what former president Bush has to do with Obama going to a town hall meeting.
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LastBestHope
And another thing: as splintered and fractious as the GOP is at the moment anyone who insists Republican opposition to Obamacare is organized and orchestrated is contradicting themselves, not that consistency ever mattered to the Left.
Who is 'organizing' the independents?
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adaydream
Not my comment at all.
The GOP is lavishing these stories that their messege of misinformation is getting across to the least informed and less educated. Those who believe the talking heads, the Sean Hannitys, Rush Limbaughs and the others.
They're ability to get out misinformation is amazing. < :-)
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skipthesong
So Aday, you're saying that there is no difference between the dems and the gop? Since they accused everyone not with them as un-American, its ok for the Dems to do so as well? Man, we really need that third and forth party now.
We can't people disagree with it? Let me tell you this, if these people who are against it, talked and acted civilized, do you really think a politician (dem/rep doesn't matter) would listen? NO!
the left is just going to have to get louder. And they will. They usually are very good at that.
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adaydream
adaydream at 11:35 AM JST - 11th August
skipthesong, I did fail to address the point that whether dem or rep calling someone un-American for not believing something is just wrong. < :-)
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skipthesong
Obama cold be hitting about 700 if it weren't for this health care bill. I think he's wrong to push it now and the manner in which it is being pushed. The admin should have learned enough why similar health care initiatives didn't make it. yet they are pushing it in the same manner. Political suicide. Everything was going fine until this.
Aday: so you agree with me that Nancy, the rich white lady who was born with a silver spoon in her mouth's remark was off?
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Taka313
For all the non-Americans out there, the above is a perfect example of the combination of stupidity and deflection tactics many of us are fighting with regards to the health care debate.
My boy, lbh wants us to think that govt. health care would be inefficient, so he throws out an example of the USPS to show his point. But, that's not enough. He had to game the argument by framing by using a worse-case scenario.
However, one of the many things he fails to understand is that the USPS is incredibly efficient. In Dec. of 2007, the USPS post office at CFAY moved 390 thousand pounds of mail. 390 thousand pounds of mail was moved internationally in one month.
That is from one post office alone.
That aside, my internet bill has to be paid at an office in Atlanta, GA. I can put that check in an envelop, attach a stamp for less than the cost of a pack of gum, put it in a box at the end of my driveway (anyone else see a lot of convenience in that?) and someone will pick it up, and deliver it to the exact office in Atlanta, in less than 4 days.
Inefficient? Impressive if you ask me.
So, from MY perspective, his argument is barely more logical than the guy in S. Carolina who told his Congressman to "keep your government hands off of my Medicare."
I also have to say, lbh, I wish you would show a little more love for your country and its citizens. But, being bitter is a choice, and I will respect that choice, as much as I think it's a poor one.
Taka
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USNinJapan2
Taka313
I think receiving medical/healthcare and buying prescription medication from pharmacies are two completely different things. Some Americans choose to go buy their medicine in Canada because they are indeed cheaper there but they do so only after being prescribed the medications through American doctors in the US healthcare system. If they chose to get their prescriptions by seeing a Canadian doctor in the Canadian healthcare system they would still be waiting for their appointment with no medicine in hand...
0
onewrldoneppl
americans don't want all americans to have healthcare. universal coverage is "un-american". 50 million people without healthcare is VERY american. as a non-american, i think 50 million less americans is not necessarily a bad thing. wink
0
gcbel
Hate to disagree. But yeah they are un-American. it's one thing to voice a different opinion. It's quite another to try and shut down discussion altogether.
Some have never heard of the growth industry that is Medical Tourism. From hundred, to thousands and, soon, millions of Americans traveling abroad to get medical treatment. And we're not talking only for elective or cosmetic surgery but for everything from bypasses, to hip replacements, and liver transplants. Not just dental work across the border in Mexico but heart surgery in India and Thailand. US insurance companies are even starting to include these foreign procedures in their coverage.
Now, why is this?
0
lostrune2
The main difference between Canada and the US is that most Canadians are proud of their healthcare while most Americans are just "settled" with theirs. That's one thing you won't see Americans bragging about.
On the other hand, America is a much bigger nation population-wise and regional heterogeneity-wise than either Canada or any single European country. So it's harder to agree on a solution.
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skipthesong
Canada is hardly a model to mirror for health care.. I hear enough Canadian complaining about it and those who live close enough, and can afford it, to a major US city do prefer to get their medical needs there.
I have no objections to the health I pay for nor the plans I have for my staff, which was mandated even back then. Why should I have to change?
Here in Japan I use the Japanese Health Insurance but I think I am on a different side of the issue, as my wife is a doctor, so I have it a bit easier, but I have heard enough horror stories and read a book called "Dying in a Japanese Hospital".
If there is going to be anything, it should start with insurance oversight first. There is no need to bring a national health care plan now while we are looking at high unemployment, heck, I refuse to hire any more people because of health care costs and now you want me to pay into another one?
0
skipthesong
I don't know why no one can wait until we have a solid, set and done bill. Much of the anger on both sides are are arguing basically over nothing.
However, there have been enough idiots from the dems side opening their mouths a bit too much causing a lot of scare.
0
goodDonkey
Let's face it the conservatives have resorted to name calling and they are getting away with it. Calling Obama a socialist is the same as a little kid on the playground calling someone names. He will try to use whatever name is most effective. Furthermore, they will try to yell at Obama's scheduled "Town Meetings."
I would advise Obama to have many of them televised and Obama should say, "Please don't raise you voice. If you have something to say make your point and I will respond." So far the proposal is contrary to the conservatives allegations on JT. Everyone would be free to keep their current coverage. That alone dispels the socialism charge. It means free market choice with a safety net. That dispels the charge that people will be forced into a government run program. They have been working hard not to price the insurance industry out of the market. It has been a major discussion. It is unheard of to be discussing "how to pay for it" during the introduction of such a vast change. But that is exactly what he is doing and exactly what he proposed during his campaign.
If I were him I would be very clear that the Republicans had their opportunity and squandered it. It is his turn. Conservatives have a funny way of looking at things. Let's take Bush's Prescription plan. Many conservatives put Bush down because of the ballooning costs. Many liberals see it as an opportunity to once again bust Bush's chops. I know for a fact that many, many Americans can now afford to take the medicine prescribed by their doctor for them. That is a good thing. We spend money on all kinds of crap. Bush's effort helps millions of Americans. It is expensive but money well spent. It also changed the free market. First Wal Mart then others offered low priced meds. Not only that but Bush set in place some controls that reduce the cost of the governments procurement of medicines. In the long run the Pharmaceutical companies are making even more money because more people are taking their prescribed medications. When everyone is jumping on the bandwagon to criticize the Prescription Drug Program I am willing to commend him for saving lives and improving the quality of other's lives.
It is the perfect example of which to compare Obama's Medical Care proposals. It will have benefits to the free market. It will cut costs to small businesses and provide an incentive for employees to remain in small business ventures instead of leaving when they achieve a measured level of success. It will create a more even playing field when America competes with other country's corporations that do not bear the same medical costs due to their governments coverage. Our labor costs are outrageous yet we have some of the most productive workers in the world. So the end result is job loss based on medical coverage costs. So when people are calculating the net costs make sure they include the benefits that are purely monetary that would not normally be included. They are vast.
As far as those who want to be disruptive at Town Hall meetings I say bring them forward. But they only get their turn and should not be allowed to monopolize the meeting. They do not represent unanimous opposition. They represent one faction. Let everyone's voice be heard.
When those who are currently uninsured and use medical facilities and services and are unable to pay for them, that cost is shifted onto the rest of our backs anyway. We either pay directly, pay higher costs for medical care, pay higher premiums or receive lower wages because the company is spending their income on insurance costs. Medical care in the U.S. has been a scam for years. Huge numbers of people make an income in the medical industry and have nothing to do with medical care.
Tort is a minuscule portion of the costs. The lion share is profit distributed among administrators, health organizations (actually money launders), and insurance companies. In my opinion more money should be funneled back to doctors and other health care professionals and health care facilities and more services should be provided. What a waste funding health care management like it compares to funding health care.
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adaydream
skipthesong I agree that Pelosi's comments were wrong. I'm not sure about the silverspoon part. I'm sure that compared to my childhood you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth.
I want health care in this country to be reworked all the way. To leave it to the free market is doing nothing. We've seen how that works.
I like Obama's plan. < :-)
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hworta269
Disagreeing with Obama is unAmerican!!!!!
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SushiSake3
Disagreeing with President Obama is not in the slightest unAmerican (although I understand you are being sarcastic).
Unlike the childish diatribe to that effect introduced by the previous U.S. bush administration, Americans should feel free to voice their agreement, disagreement or whatever else they wish.
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Good_Jorb
I live in what is currently the richest part of Canada and I have had contracts with oil and gas companies(some very rich people) and have yet to meet a person who went state side to get their medical needs met. I did meet a guy who went to Cuba to get surgery/stay at a oceanside hospital for four months, as well as a women who went to China to get an organ transplant. As well I also know people(including myself) who turned down job offers in the States for fear of getting sick and needing medical attention.
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LastBestHope
America has the best health care in the world.
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KyotoChris
LastBestHope,
Even many in the US don't believe that propoganda. Your leaders even criticize it.
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hworta269
America does in fact have the best healthcare in the entire world. Our health care industry creates more cures and treatments then most the rest of the world combined. American politicians wont address the real cost driving forces in our industry which are government run programs like medicare and litigation that causes doctors to have to pay 75 percent of their income to insurance and drives up everyone's cost. A government run system would ration healthcare out to people, Obama even admitted that much and also obama would exempt himself from having to use that system that he would force upon Americans. End of life counseling..... politicans would decide what treatments people got. If they want to shut down people who merely protest them then what would they do if they could decide who gets lifesaving care and who doesnt?
0
sfjp330
Problem with American health care is that it eats up 16 percent of the GNP annually. If the current health care plan stays the same, in a next 7 to 10 years, it will take 25 percent of the GNP for the same care. This will be comparable to entire GNP of Japan. This is a major reason they are looking into drastic change to save the country.
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Taka313
Hworta269,
You missed a very important word there. The word is "all." All people will be covered, not just the wealthy.
Why is it that conservatives want every woman who is pregnant to give birth to that child, but then they don't care if that child receives proper health care? What the hell?
I've given up on them having common sense. I'm now just wondering if they can spell those two words or use them correctly in a sentence. And applying it...well lets just try to keep things within the realm of possibility.
Taka
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Taka313
You know, the more I thought about this, the dumber the anti-healthcare crowd is.
How can someone want a mandate forcing a poor woman to have a child (no abortions for you, Missy, that womb belongs to the state), but then tell her that she's on her own regarding the health care that child will require after he/she is born.
That is so far passed stupid, you can't even see it in the mirror. AND...things in those mirrors are closer than they appear!
Amazing.
Taka
0
USNinJapan2
Taka313
Also, the USPS is posting a loss of $7 billion this year with another $7 billion projected loss for next year. It's services may be impressive but unfortunately the USPS is in the red because of them.
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lostrune2
Just a brain quiz: Though I wonder what would happen if the money-losing USPS is eliminated, how long could it take current and new private competitors to fill in the gap left by USPS, particularly the money-losing sparsely-populated areas... People are already complaining that their local corner mailboxes are progressively becoming a thing of the past due to email (like phone booths due to cellphones)....
0
hworta269
Most Americans have healthcare and 80 percent of Americans are happy with the coverage they have. This is a situation that is being totally blown out of proportion to give the government an excuse to take over and nationalize a huge American industry and they are doing nothing to lower actual healthcare costs and making a huge excuse to rape every American out of more income in taxes.
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KyotoChris
hworta269: I believe you're incorrect in most Americans having healthcare from the statistics I've seen (from multiple sources). It's the duty of the state to protect the people and if they can spend so much on military and violent defense, they certainly can provide at least basic health coverage to those who can't afford it.
I saw that they just recently raised the minimum wage (to the dismay of a certain 'R' political party but can you imagine working for $7 dollars and change and being able to afford to live, have food, clothes, AND pay medical expenses? The U.S. has great opportunities but it's also VERY expensive to live and raise a family. Most parents both have to work and if there is no extended family there, they also have to pay for childcare if they have a child.
I live in both the U.S. and Japan during the year so I do have some idea of how things are. When I was younger and just out of college I had a job that didn't provide healthcare and had to have some medical attention. The bill out of my pocket was 10 times what someone with insurance would pay. Look at the numbers and you'll see that the insurance companies negotiate service costs with doctors and hospitals while the uninsured (if it's so bad they have to see a doctor) pay FULL price for their treatment. That's very sad.
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