Obama criticizes McCain for 'naive' foreign policy

Saturday 17th May, 05:12 AM JST

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Madverts at 07:33 PM JST - 17th May

Naive is saying the war will be "won" in 2013.

McCain is suffering from senile dementia.
Betzee at 09:39 PM JST - 17th May

Sometimes the perception game is too much of a reality to try to change on your own and by wearing the pin he makes it a non-issue.

So go with the flow? You're wrong; by putting on that pin Obama makes it harder for anyone else in public life to claim you can be a patriot in the absence of a flag pin. That, in effect, becomes the litmus test in lieu of the higher standard the once prevailed, namely self-sacrifice for the good of the group. Willing to make sacrifices requires one to think through the issues before making such a commitment, whereas putting on a pin does not.
SuperLib at 10:24 PM JST - 17th May

That pin is a situation that Obama cannot win. If he fights it he will lose votes, period. It's just not worth it.
Madverts at 10:34 PM JST - 17th May

But why can a simple pin make so much who-har? We aresupposed to be talking about adults here.

It really is childish, the shrieky run-up to American elections.

It reminds me of the "my dad's car is faster than yours" at primary school.
Sarge at 10:47 PM JST - 17th May

I think there's an excellent chance U.S. troops will be able to leave Iraq by 2013 if Obama doesn't win the presidency and screw everything up.

"I'm waiting to see the first Obama vs McCain debate"

Obama: I'll act if al-Qaida is forming a base in Iraq.

McCain: I have some news. Al-Qaida is in Iraq. It's called al-Qaida in Iraq.
Betzee at 10:51 PM JST - 17th May

That pin is a situation that Obama cannot win. If he fights it he will lose votes, period. It's just not worth it.

So he should do whatever it takes to get votes? Sorry, that doesn't make him an attractive candidate to me. Plus, his opponents will use his flip-flop to make him look weak. He caved and therefore he can't be trusted.

I've flipped the order in the paragraphs of this paste-in extracted from a longer article. At the risk of being branded unpatriotic, I think the Europeans have a mind-set less vulnerable to demagogery (represented in an extreme form by North Korea) which we risk by going down this path:

The manufactured controversies over flag pins is part of the same problem, but it takes matters a step further because it fetishizes the pin itself over and above the already superficial colors and imagery designed to invoke feelings of patriotism. I could understand a little if they were a long-standing tradition, but they only came to the fore in the aftermath of September 11. Now, no matter how much one says they are patriotic, and no matter how unsubtle the patriotic appeals are in campaign materials, the absence of tiny piece of metal made in China suddenly becomes the most important sign of whether a candidate is really patriotic or not.

This sort of behavior isn't the norm. Political parties in Germany, for example, have their own signature colors and use them in their advertising and propaganda materials. No one feels any need to emblazon the German flag all over their posters, and I don't think you'll find such behavior in other European nations. No one questions the general patriotic feelings of political candidates — they differ on what they think is best for their country, not in wanting the best for their country....

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/82934/
Betzee at 11:08 PM JST - 17th May

I think there's an excellent chance U.S. troops will be able to leave Iraq by 2013

We got into Iraq because anyone who challenged the evidence that Saddam's WMD posed an "imminent threat" to the security of the US and our allies had their patriotism questioned. Now McCain, in tossing out 2013, seems to be engaging exactly what war supporters have claimed is advocating a "surrender date."

Maybe he's just pandering to public opinion to get votes. The American public has no interest in hanging around. We may defeat Al Qaeda in Iraq but the Al Qaeda which attacked us is alive and well in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan.
lipscombe at 03:41 AM JST - 18th May

because he went to bed already or just doesnt like you
SuperLib at 06:48 AM JST - 18th May

Sorry, that doesn't make him an attractive candidate to me.

So what? There are two forces at work here, both radical. One side is comprised of blind patriots who think wearing a pin means something, the other side is comprised of self-loathing Americans who hate American patriotism. The rest of us are just caught in the middle.
super delegate at 10:17 AM JST - 18th May

Obama's flag pin has 57 stars.

He has transcended the problem, mmmkay?
nonacnon at 05:58 PM JST - 18th May

Obama said he has stated “over and over again that I will not negotiate with terrorists like Hamas.”

I hope he doesn't mean this but I guess he has to as the frame work of the political reality in US is rather narrow and counter productive. Mc Cain ranting on about the magical date 2013, is very credible. We must stay in Iraq. We must stay and fight al Qaida and turn our country into bankrrupcy.
Zaphod at 12:15 AM JST - 20th May

Obama talks about "naive"?? This from the guy who declared that he wants to withdraw all troops from Iraq but move them right back in after Al Quaida sets up shop there again, in other words immediately --- creating the most massive and wasteful military operation in history?? The guy who wants to to "talk" to Ahmedinejad without precondition, and in the next sentence declares he wants to bomb Northern Pakistan unilaterally? This guy calls others "naive"? That is truly mind-boggling.
Everton2 at 10:29 AM JST - 20th May

Republicans believe that they have somehow cornered the market on patriotism. It is just absurd to think that Senator Obama's allegiance to America can be questioned based on whether he chooses to wear or not to wear a pin. This notion of appeasement if you talk to your enemies is no different from the approach that Ronald Regan took towards the Soviet Union during the cold war and won. The current policies toward Iran and other rogue states are not working and common sense is suggesting that we try another approach.
rjdsr at 10:41 AM JST - 20th May

Obama falls right in with the Neville Chamberlain mold of appeasement. He has no chance when the american voters know they need a strong President.
UnagiDon at 10:51 AM JST - 20th May

Negotiating with the Iranians? If memory serves, wasn't he last president who did that a Republican, who also negotiated nuclear arms reductions with those pesky Soviets?