Obama effigy found on university campus; hanging Palin effigy removed

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    skipthesong

    the things Americans feel they need to do to make a statement. I think we should impose the same type of laws Castro enacted years ago...

    Whitmore says the rest of the scene—with Republican presidential candidate John McCain popping out of the chimney surrounded by fake flames—is still on display." White blue eyed devils..

  • 0

    timorborder

    This is getting boring. Of course, having a person of color hanging from a tree is a bit disturbing for obvious historical reasons, however, can't we all move on to more important issues? Moreover, if you are to take the pxss out of the whole political process, try and show some originality. Obama/Palin/McCain hanging from trees is last week. Admittedly, having McCain pop out amid flames shows promise. However, there is so much else you could do. For example, what about a reinactment of the nativity with a twist. Instead of the christ child laying in a meanger, you could have McCain as a quisling rating out his buddies to the three wise men (who look distinctly North Vietnamese circa 1967). What about Barack - with a middle name like Hussein you could certainly whip up some interesting imagery. Palin also screams out to appear in a advertisment for PETA. Come on folks, if you are going to shock us, take it to the max....

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Hmmm... not too many of yesterday's Palin supporters protesting the effigy on here yet, I see. Well, here's the chance they were waiting for to comment, and I'm particularly interested in hearing from Helter_Skelter and those that ignorantly said, "If this happened to Obama..." when it is the SECOND time. I'm also curious to know what their feelings are on what should be done if the perpetrators are caught, given that both Obama effigies were on public grounds ahead of planned election activities, whereas the Palin effigy was on private property.

    Any comments, people?

    I think the whole thing is sick... be it this or the Palin effigy, and I'm glad community members had a heart-to-heart with the Morrissettes and the Mr. decided to cover up the doll.

    Doing it on public -- or rather, university property? Well, like with the Paling figure the incident definitely needs to be looked into. If/when the people responsible are caught it needs to be assessed whether or not there is any threat, or if it was just idiots pulling a prank. In the event of the former, I would of course hope the people are charged as necessary (same with if the Morrissettes intended harm). In the event of a prank, I think the university should act according to its own disrection and/or relevent guidelines -- with the pranksters being charged for vandalism or other such charges, and perhaps expulsion if students at the school, etc.

  • 0

    ptolemy

    These are university students and alcohol may be impeding thought processes. I know I did some buffoon things back in my day. We hung both a Carter and a Reagan effigy. We wanted to be fair.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    "Earlier in the afternoon, neighbors covered up the Palin mannequin with sheets, in what Whitmore described as a friendly protest."

    Doh! Missed that it was the neighbours who covered the mannequin up. Well, so long as 'chad' agreed and let them on the property without filing tresspassing charges, then it's all good, but then...

    "Later a handful of protesters were joined by an SUV with an effigy labeled “Chad,” after the display’s creator, Chad Morrisette."

    ...that's just tacky. I agree with Timor. If you're going to go tit-for-tat, at least try to be somewhat original; and in a gas-guzzling SUV?? C'Mon!

  • 0

    JoeBigs

    I am outraged some more now. When will the hate be done? This sort of actions are really scratching the scab of our past. I hope that politicians and commentators on both sides say something about this as many spoke out about Palin effigy.

    But I am most likely going to be saddened because the Right will not stand up to speak out about their wing nutz as the left does.

  • 0

    adaydream

    They should be removed. There's no place anywhere for this kind of stuff. No different than I posted about the other effigies. < :-)

  • 0

    frontandcentre

    pathetic, contemptible people are responsible for this

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    I'm particularly interested in hearing from Helter_Skelter

    The effigy was immediately taken down by the police and is under police investigation. Pretty much exactly what I said. Thanks for asking.

    But I'd be more curious to hear from those who a day ago thought the effigy of Palin hanging from a noose was nothing more than an expression of free speech. I'd like to know they have these same convictions about the Obama effigy, even if it were on private property. Will check back.

  • 0

    Nessie

    But I'd be more curious to hear from those who a day ago thought the effigy of Palin hanging from a noose was nothing more than an expression of free speech. I'd like to know they have these same convictions about the Obama effigy, even if it were on private property.

    In both cases it's more than an expression of free speech, and in both cases it should be allowed but abhorred.

  • 0

    dennis0bauer

    well what can i more say than Palin, Obama hang in there.

  • 0

    CavemanLawyer

    “This was not political speech. It was simply hate, “the governor said.

    Maybe. Maybe not.

    Did anyone jump to the conclusion that the Palin "around with terrorists" mannequin hung was a symbol of gender hate??

    Maybe the message was that Obama should be hung like many pure white men have been have for some perceived crime. And Obama is not black anyway. He is mixed.

    If a black man hung GWB in effigy, would be a big deal? Heck, I would like to do it myself!

    Anyway, I hope the litterbugs are made to explain what their message means. All this guessing is annoying.

  • 0

    Nessie

    Given her clothing budget, a realistic effigy of Palin would bankrupt most households.

  • 0

    skipthesong

    Even though Obama is going to win, people need to understand that Palin and McCain aren't going to go anywhere; they'll go right back to their old jobs running the state they represent and they will have to work with Obama and he will have to work with them. As bad as the structure of the US is at this point, the last thing that is needed for using threats to get points across.

    And Obama is not black anyway. He is mixed." Yeah, but that constitutes being black. go to www.noi.org and read the content and by pass the messenger - it does make sense sometimes.

  • 0

    skipthesong

    I wonder how much these kids college cost their parents and now they will probably be suspended which is a big deal for a serious college kid and its a serious hit on the parents who most likely paid for their kids to go to college. Glad I went to college at night with older people.

  • 0

    Sarge

    "Palin effigy removed"

    Morrisette is going to do some more work on it to make it actually look like Palin.

  • 0

    CaptainUSA

    Get over it foklks. It's probably just high jinx from kids, and has no racist overtones. This sia non new event, people move on.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Looks like effigy-mania is sweeping the land!

  • 0

    Nippon5

    Why is it a racist thing to hand a black mans image and not a racist thing to hang a white persons image? Seems racist to say it is racist one way and not the other.....

    Either way the people doing it are just plain idiots fueled by stupidity and/or drugs/booze.. Using the image of a person being killed to represent your dislike for a political person is just sick, and shows ones ignorance of the real world...

    White Black green red, it doesnt matter we all came from the same group originally and our color changed do to enviromental reasons.... How can you dislike a color considering we all came from the same cloth...

  • 0

    skipthesong

    nippon: if you wore a Swatzticker on your shirt, it wouldn't offend many but it would offend a Jewish person irregardless of its true meaning before Hitler stole it. The same is with the noose. Having said that, I still think the best method of getting rid of it is to not let it offend you then the people who are trying to hurt you will need to look for a different item to offend you.

  • 0

    LFRAgain

    Helter_Skelter,

    If Obama were hung in effigy from the tree of a private residence openly by a citizen, it would still constitute hate speech.

    I know, I know, you're rolling your eyes and mumbling something about "double standards," but while you roll your eyes and dismiss the idea that lynching is something to which Black Americans overreact, understand that lynchings were used to terrorize and intimidate not only Black Americans but also Whites who sought to support Black civil rights.

    From 1882 to 1968, towards the tail-end of a long period of massive Civil Rights unrest in the U.S., some 3,445 Blacks had been lynched. Since 1945, a period after WWII that supposedly heralded the start of a new era of freedom and liberty for the world, over 40 Blacks were lynched in the U.S., some of them servicemen just returning from tours of duty and still in uniform.

    Whether you choose to accept that images of a Black person hanging from a tree constitutes a powerfully intimidating image to Blacks is irrelevant in the face of reality, that reality being that the mere mention of lynching evokes fear, anger, and apprehension in Blacks and Whites alike. Lynching in effigy was and is still used by idiots with the idea that “White makes Right” to intimidate and terrorize “uppity negros” – like Barrack Obama.

    Hang a black man in effigy in America and claim it’s freedom of speech? Quite honestly, we're not there yet as a nation.

    CavemanLawyer,

    Did anyone jump to the conclusion that the Palin "around with terrorists" mannequin hung was a symbol of gender hate?

    Unlikely, since the two conditions are historically and culturally independent of each other – unless one happens to be a Black woman.

    Maybe the message was that Obama should be hung like many pure white men have been have for some perceived crime. And Obama is not black anyway. He is mixed.

    That’s a tenous argument at best. Sure, there’s the possibility, but it’s highly unlikely. Also, it’s not as if being mixed in 1960s America gave one a “get out of lynching free” card. If anything, it made one a more likely target for representing a polluting of the “White Race.” Being a mixed Black is no guarantee of fair(er) treatment in American society or politics.

  • 0

    yabits

    Helter Skelter writes: "The effigy was immediately taken down by the police and is under police investigation. Pretty much exactly what I said."

    No. Here is exactly what you said: "If it had been an effigy of Obama in a noose, he'd have already been in FBI custody and charged with multiple hate crimes. And after being released from prison, he'd be on every FBI domestic terrorist watch list for the rest of his life."

    One can't help but note the difference in the cases is that the displayers of the McCain-Palin effigies made no attempt to conceal their identities when they exercised their freedom of expression on their own property. It's pretty clear that many of these opponents of Obama are simply cowards.

  • 0

    Madverts

    Heh, I got beaten to it. I'm sure skelter and Sailwind feel pretty embarassed over yesterdays comments...

  • 0

    sailwind

    Madverts

    Sailwind feel pretty embarassed over yesterdays comments...

    I feel so embarassed for calling hanging an effigy of Palin "Tastless". I guess I should have posted what really thought and what I really I think about this and about some idiots trying to make a statement about Obama or for that matter Palin yesterday....Revolting.

    Have a nice P.C day.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Nippon5,

    One way that one effigy could be racist and another not is that one effigy could have been hung by a member of a different "race" and the other hung by a member of the same "race"--for example, both effigies hung by whites or both hung by blacks.

    That being said, I agree with Nessie--allowed but abhorred. The only exception that I would make to that is that if one or the other or both actually constituted a crime or misdemeanor. And it's possible that both of these things actually do constitute a misdemeanor--public nuisance.

  • 0

    usaexpat

    Due to the history of lynchings this action is a lot more serious than hanging an effigy of Palin. I do not, will not, and cannot support Obama for president but the idiots that did this need to be punished. It reflects badly on themselves, the University, and Americans as a whole

  • 0

    Badsey

    Obama, GW Bush and McCain masks are popular and cheap this year.

    No new taxes! -They are all afraid of the "T" word. Cowards all of them.

  • 0

    taikan

    The hanging of an effigy, however tasteless, is a form of "speech" which is protected by the First Amendment. However, there is a key distinction between the hanging of the Palin effigy and the Obama effigy. One was on private property and the other was on public property. As such, it was appropriate for the authorities to require the removal of the Obama effigy. It would not be appropriate for the authorities to seek the removal of any effigy (be it Palin, Obama, or someone else) on private property unless the existence of that effigy resulted in a clear and present danger of inciting violence.

  • 0

    Badsey

    it is only your property as long as you pay the taxes = more like a lease agreement with your Gov.

    I want these effigiests looked into by every public force available just like the media went after "Joe the Plumber" Find something and start spreading the dirt to their own effigy.

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    LFRAgain,

    The argument here isn't whether blacks have been discriminated in the past. We all agree to that. The argument here is the law. You're saying that the consequences for hanging an effigy of a white person should be different than that of hanging a black person. That, my friend, is racist. Creating two separate set of standards based on the color of skin is a racist policy. The civil rights movement of the sixties was about creating equal rights for blacks.

    If you believe an effigy of Palin is simply free speech, then an effigy of Obama is as well. If you believe an effigy of Obama is a criminal act, then an effigy of Palin is as well. It's such irony that the leftists who claim to hold the torch against racism are the ones continually perpetuating it. And their motivations aren't always as noble as they might appear.

  • 0

    bushlover

    These effigy things are almost as pathetic as cutting up the political candidates on a public web forum like JT.

  • 0

    Everton2

    Helter_Skelter: Your reasoning is just mind boggling, straight from the pages of tunnel vision publishing.

    The fact that blacks historically were singled out for lynching by and large made the threat and consequence of that action exclusive to them.

    For these reasons to lynch a black person (and yes Obama is black and stop trying to make him anything else, he regards himself and so do others as black) in effigy, especially in America has broader implications for blacks there than it would anywhere else. It is tantamount to a direct threat of physical arm.

  • 0

    Badsey

    So what does it mean to burn the American flag?

    Should be lots of Obamas this Halloween. Nothing the NaaCp, Jesse Jackson or the other Demo-Liberals can do about it. Better have the candy ready. Obama-Mamas also.

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    Everton,

    Your reasoning is just mind boggling,

    You mean my argument that the law should be color blind? Is this really what it's come to? What's mind boggling is the people here who don't believe in the fundamental principle of equal protection under the law. That it should somehow be race-based. It sets a very dangerous precedent and is a slippery slope. Sorry, but I'm not a racist and don't support racist policies.

    Obama is black and stop trying to make him anything else

    Who's trying to make him anything else? And why should it matter what color he is?

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Helter Skelter,

    Perhaps the law should be color blind. However, for the present, our society has decided that since law enforcement is not color blind and since our people are not color blind, that we need to have laws which are not color blind as well.

    So white people hanging effigies of white people cannot be defined hate crimes while white people hanging effigies of black people can be. Maybe the laws can get back to being color blind when everyone knows the words to Kumbayah by heart and know them so well that there's no longer any reason to sing it.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    taikan,

    Whether it's appropriate for local authorities to seek removal of an effigy depends, I think on municipal ordinances regarding zoning, public nuisance and on neighborhood compacts.

    It's a sad thing when you can't hang your clothes out to dry in your back yard but can hang an astonishingly well-executed image of a politician in your front.

  • 0

    ImperiumMundi

    It's a sad thing when you can't hang your clothes out to dry in your back yard but can hang an astonishingly well-executed image of a politician in your front.

    that happened in l.a., with effigy of sarah palin.

    this was on a university campus. no backyards.

  • 0

    cleo

    you can't hang your clothes out to dry in your back yard

    ? Why?

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    our people are not color blind

    There are racist whites, racist blacks, racist latinos, racist asians, etc. Sorry, but no one group has cornered the market on racism. When Louis Farrahkan incites his followers with rhetoric calling caucasians "white devils", he's racist. I understand you specifically need white racism to achieve your socialist agenda so this must not sit well.

    So white people hanging effigies of white people cannot be defined hate crimes while white people hanging effigies of black people can be.

    How about black people hanging effigies of white people? How would be the ruling intellectual elite vote on this?

  • 0

    JoeBigs

    Helter_Skelter at 10:00 AM JST - 31st October How about black people hanging effigies of white people? How would be the ruling intellectual elite vote on this?

    Question H_S could you provide some sites that show African Americans hanging effigies of McBush or his girl Thursday?

    I have looked but still can not find any. But since you keep bringing this up you must have some sites that will support this argument. Then I can follow you and your stance.

    But if you do not have proof or any pictures of any African Americans hanging effigies of McBush or his girl Thursday then why bring this up?

    Please help I am trying to follow your view.....

  • 0

    filda

    aahhh -- southern trees bear strange fruit again ...

  • 0

    Nippon5

    Everton then we could say that because the image of McCain is in a display of fire that its a reference to witch burning and that is something whites suffered in the past so it is a severe racist thing? White people have been hung way before a black man ever touched America, to say showing one in a noose is racist and the other isnt is just stupid.. you have to be equal in it or your being racist about it...

    Basically it comes down to this, if the Palin one is a political statement then you have to consider the Obama one too, you cant let race be a factor in order to be equal, but to admit that would throw away the use of the race card and Obama loves it having that card up his sleeve...

    Joe I have seen arabs, blacks, mexicans, and other countries people hang and burn Bush so does that count as racist? Its a political statement and the color of the political person shouldnt be a factor in a polical statement.

  • 0

    Everton2

    Helter_Skelter: The hate crime legislation was specifically designed to protect minorities (please do your research). It was enacted in recognition of a majority who systematically preyed on minorities. The arrangement here is the principles behind the law, that is the law!

    Nippon5: Your analogy is patently silly. White people were hanged perhaps because they were criminals or possibly represented a belief system that was considered offensive to the mores at the time. They were not hanged because they were white. Those people you saw burning Bush in effigy I am sure were not doing it because he was white. Please come up with something better.

  • 0

    Everton2

    The American supreme court recognized the need for a hate crime act in order to protect black people from marauding whites. That is the idea behind the law, and to brandish an effigy of a black person with a noose around its neck has much broader implications than it would for a white person.

    Please I implore whites to stop painting this broad brush in respect to racism. All race are not racist, it is a white illusion to think that. Racism is essentially a European white concept that gain currency during the slave trade. they use it to justify the brutality of their behaviour to another race. It is something that only whites should take ownership of and stop trying to implicate other races. Minorities by and large simply react to a broader society that has in so many ways demonstrated its disdain towards them.

  • 0

    Nippon5

    So everton2 you must be one of the ones who hung Obamas cardboard cutout? Or maybe the other group who hung the effigy involved you? How do you know they hung it for a racial reason and not for a political reason? Do you know if the students had been white what if they had been mexican, black, Asian? Your talking with the typical "if it was a black person that was attacked it had to be a hate crime" BS..

    If one group does it for a political reason then you cant say the other group didnt do it for a political reason...

    Myself I am part native American but dont have the look of a native, but I have seen allot of blacks, whites, and other races do things that are racist to my ethnic group..But

    I wouldnt call a person racist if they do a political statement against an Native American political candidate.

    Ive been in Compton and have been insulted by blacks for being not black, so does that mean the blacks are racist? did they do a hate crime? Racism goes both ways its not a one way street you want to paint it as.

    If my analogy was patently silly Then your whole statement that if you do a political statement effigy hanging of a black man its automatically racist must be too... Not only is it silly its prejudice and racist in its self...

    A hate crime is a crime done to someone based on their race.. An Effigy isnt criminal so therefore cant be a hate crime... Burning a cross is a symbol of racist, but it isnt a hate crime. Calling my uncle a drunk like all indians is racist but its not a hate crime.Kicking him in the head when he falls down drunk yelling stupid indian would be a hate crime... Freedom of speach goes both ways... You cant limit one and not the other race without being racist or prejudice yourself ...

    As far as Bush I saw one sign that stated kill the white devil as they burned the effigy.. Does that make it racist? Is that too broad a stroke for you? Racism isnt a black/white thing and isnt just one sided....

  • 0

    Everton2

    What do you think Arabs are generally, white of course. Also, they had both white and black slaves

    Moderator: Stay on topic please. Your posts should refer to the effigy.

  • 0

    usaexpat

    Everton, You are right on the reasoning behind hate crime laws. I think those laws apply to the hanging of the Obama effigy as well. Where we split is on the proposal that only whites are racist or practice racism, that racism is a whote invention. There is blatant racism in all ethinic communities in the US and certainly in all countries around the world. If you ask yourself the following question: Is there racism in Japan? , you certainly will disprove your argument.

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    Racism is essentially a European white concept

    Wow. Does anyone, other than Everton2, actually believe this?

  • 0

    Nessie

    From 1882 to 1968, towards the tail-end of a long period of massive Civil Rights unrest in the U.S., some 3,445 Blacks had been lynched

    Interesting expansion of that stat, from Wiki: "between 1880 and 1951 the Tuskegee Institute recorded lynchings of 3,437 African-American victims, as well as 1,293 white victims"

  • 0

    Nessie

    Hate is abhorrent. Hate speech is abhorrent. But neither should be illegal. The law should be colorblind. Short of incitement to riot, people should be free to express themselves in whatever way they choose.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    ImperiumMundi,

    I'm aware of those facts. What's your point?

  • 0

    SezWho2

    cleo,

    I'm not sure of the point of your question.

    The reason you can't hang your clothes out to dry in your back yard in some cases is basically a community rule. If you buy into a subdivision, you must--in some cases--abide by the subdivision rules. A lot of folks who build $200,000 homes and have nice back lawns with no fences and only low hedges want to be able to give barbecue parties without looking at their neighbors underwear flapping in the breeze.

    Absent community rules, their may be municipal ordinances--the same kind of ordinances that dictate that you must keep your sidewalk in good repair and trash out of your front lawn. Absent those, there can be a heap of peer pressure.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Helter Skelter,

    How about black people hanging effigies of white people? How would be the ruling intellectual elite vote on this?

    This is a hypothetical question that doesn't touch upon the Palin or Obama effigies in question, right? It's just a bit of distraction, no?

    But of course, black people hanging effigies of white people could be a hate crime if the law so defines it that way.

  • 0

    Helter_Skelter

    Sez,

    It's just a bit of distraction, no?

    No. Completely relavant to the topic being discussed.

    black people hanging effigies of white people could be a hate crime if the law so defines it that way.

    Can't get much dodgier than that response. :-D

  • 0

    teaabe

    quote: "Mike Lynch, a faculty member who works in a building near where the effigy was found, said he saw it around 8:40 a.m. He described it as life-sized with a Barack Obama Halloween mask, a suit jacket and sweat pants."

    mike lynch? speaking of lynching... LOL.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    Helter Skelter,

    I don't think it's completely relevant to the topic being discussed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this Palin/Obama effigy affair we do not know of any instance in which a black person hung an effigy of a white person, do we? I don't think Chad Morrisette is commonly referred to as a black person, is he?

    In posing your question about black people hanging white effigies, you are indulging in a hypothetical. This is a distraction to the issue at hand.

    As far as my supposedly dodgy response to your question, it is completely consistent with my original statement that you used as the basis for your question. That statement was:

    So white people hanging effigies of white people cannot be defined hate crimes while white people hanging effigies of black people can be.

    The entire key to whether something is a hate crime is what the law says regarding it. If the law does not define something as a hate crime, it is not a hate crime. I understand there is even some doubt that the effigy of Obama could even be classified as a hate crime. Has anyone been charged with such crime?

  • 0

    ImperiumMundi

    in the kentucky case 2 young men were arrested.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/30/obama.effigy/index.html

    lefties will be excited to learn that one of the perps is named hunter bush.

    in the hollywood case no arrests have been made.

  • 0

    SezWho2

    ImperiumMundi,

    Yes, they were arrested. Let me know when they are charged with a hate crime. What they have been charged with is "disorderly conduct, burglary and theft by unlawful taking."

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