Obama open to adding GOP ideas to health plan
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0
SushiSake3
That's interesting - while conservaties are more than ready to pour scorn on the president, they are silent when he says he is willing to compromise?
Pretty odd....
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yabits
No. It seems that some vocal Republicans want Obama to totally capitulate to them -- so they can turn around and call him a weak appeaser.
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SushiSake3
Amazing - the president is showing a willingness to incorporate some GOP ideas into the healthcare bill, and it's all silent on the GOP front.
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Odogma
Puts the disastrous Stimulus Bill is a new light. Where was the bipartisanship back then? The overwhelming majority of Americans are focused on the economy. Why weren't Republicans consulted back then?
I predict that not even so-called RINOs will fall for Obama's ploy.
50 million dollars for state experiment budgets? That is laughable, especially when you consider that ACORN got 5 billion dollars for largely subversive activities that bring zero benefit to the US economy.
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Taka313
Reminds me of 'Jack Straw.'
"We can share the women; we can share the wine. We can share what we got of yours, 'cuz we done shared all of mine."
Taka
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SushiSake3
Odogma - "The overwhelming majority of Americans are focused on the economy. Why weren't Republicans consulted back then?"
Probably because they were the ones who were primarily responsible for destroying it and who left us with a global recession.
Odogma - "50 million dollars for state experiment budgets?"
Small change compared to the $2-3 TRILLION the GOP tipped down the drain on the 2 wars.
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Odogma
You don't understand American politics or basic economics, do you.
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SushiSake3
I understand - as a whole bunch of Americans also do - when a couple of trillion is flushed down the drain and then - amazingly - doesn't exist for things like ....healthcare and building bridges.
I also understand that the $200 billion a year the U.S. pays in debt servicing costs - in no small part to the frivolous spending habits of the previous U.S. administration - is a whole lotta money.
I also understand - as a whole lot of conservatives have consistantly shown they do not - that if you buy something, you've actually got to pay for it.
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SushiSake3
Odogma - "You don't understand American politics or basic economics, do you."
Odogma, something else I understand is that if I support policies of one government that spends a good few trillion, then I shouldn't be dumb enough to point the finger at the next government and say, "Where's the money?"
That's because I know where the money went because I supported the polices that made it disappear.
One more thing I know - if I start a fire, don't attack the firemen.
0
sailwind
And until the underlying legislation is scrapped this isn't anything but an attempt by the administration trying to put Republican lipstick on a Democratic pig of a bill.
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SushiSake3
Sail, I'd says it's an attempt by the President to show up the GOP as a party that obstinantly refuses to cooperate to further policy and for the good of the American people.
I think he's going to succeed.
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Odogma
Pollsters report Obama has now lost all the GOP states he turned in 2008.
So its not just Republicans who doubt his intentions - - it is independents also.
Americans I know blame both parties for the meltdown. But most see Obama as trying to take advantage of the crisis - - as Rahm Emmanuel said they would - - to try and push through an essentially un-American agenda of remaking the country in the European model - - which is faltering badly before our very eyes.
Like I said, I doubt even the RINOs will fall for this latest round of political Kabuki.
If they do, Obama and his kleptocrat pals will strip the so-called GOP provisions in reconciliation committee. If they don't accept he will simply try to RAHM the bill through and call the Republicans - - and 75 percent of the electorate - - 'obstructionist.'
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adaydream
So Obama accepts some more republican suggestions, but the republicans are still staying away from the package because they want the big win. Their win is Obama's demise.
I'm going to be happy when they push through the bill through reconciliation. I will be even happier when the republicans start trying to reverse it. Those who have preexisting illnesses, after getting insurance, can you imagine the republicans trying to take that away?
Obama has put the republicans in the corner and McConnell isn't going to weasel out. He and Boehner are stuck in a situation. < :-)
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SushiSake3
Is the GOP going to cooperate, or not?
Perhaps their repeated calls to be engaged in the crafting of this bill were all just a sham and a cover for their overbearing anti-American agenda?
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Odogma
If voters in true blue Massachusetts elected a Republican to fill the senate seat of the late Ted Kennedy, who fought 5 decades for a single-payer system, 'cooperation' on the part of the Republicans would be extremely foolish, downright anti-American I would say.
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adaydream
It's not anti-American. It anti-entitlement. It's pro-insurance.
The insurance companies have been pulling the republicans around by the nose for decades.
The republicans don't want compromise. Obama saw that by having the summit last week the republicans would come up with some good ideas. He also knew that they would never sign on. By using their ideas and then they continue to refuse to compromise makes the republicans a part of this package whether they want to be a part of it or not.
If the republicans take a house of the congress, I can't wait to see them trying to reverse the package. Trying to take services away from their constituents. Oh, that will be beautiful. < :-)
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Odogma
Because lawyers - - who have been leading the Democrats around for decades - - with their bogus malpractice suits have been bilking the insurance companies, driving good doctors out of practice and lowering the standard of care available to Americans. Over half of the doctors in America practice what is called 'defensive medicine'.
Lawyers gave a record 178 million dollars to Democrats in 2008.
The highest amount I could find ever donated by the insurance industry to Repubs was 27 million in 2000.
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adaydream
B/S Good doctors don't get sued. Good doctors do their job.
Now take the drug pushing, drunk surgeons, doctors who can't stay away from the drugs and incompetents out of the patients and the general public might be safe. But as long as the AMA and insurance keep protecting them and allowing them from going from state to state practicing their quackery we'll continue to have big malpractice suits.
By getting rid of these bad doctors their malpractice insurance to drop dramatically.
How much did the insurance companies give the republicans? The medical industry, the medical instruments companies?
I am enjoying the suggestions that the republicans are making. And the "NO" that they keep saying. The American people will enjoy the differences that the health care reform bill makes in the lives of those who can't get insurance. Try taking it away from them after they get it. Please republicans try. < :-)
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SushiSake3
The GOP will be screwed if they support this, and screwed if they don't.
Check mate.
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adaydream
Hey Odogma, those republicans who can't get health care insurance, or is it only democrats in that situation, but once they get healthinsurance protection what will the republicans do? Will they campaign before the November elections how they want to reverse this bill? Will they talk about all those people now getting insurance should lose it?
I mean Obama is using republican ideas and they are still thumbing their noses at Obama. Obama is going to get this bill passed without republicans. Then try to tell those people now getting Rx drugs at a lesser cost because the donut hole is closed. Try campaigning on closing that new entitlement. I look forward to hearing how they intend to sell that. < :-)
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SushiSake3
But aday, the GOP are going to complain that this healthcare reform bill is 'too expensive' while simultaneously NOT being straight with the American people about how, under their rule, U.S. debt skyrocketed by $6 trillion.
The GOP is going to screw themselves yet again. :-)
0
brotokyo
SushiSake3: "The GOP is going to screw themselves yet again. :-)" That is better than the GOP screwing me.
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Molenir
Lets see. Obama adds 30 pages of Republican ideas to a 2000 plus page bill. Yeah, don't think thats going to make a difference. Only a complete and total moron would think otherwise. And only a brainless twit would think Republicans ought to vote for this pig. Even if the President adds a bit of lipstick to it, its still a pig.
Got this backwards mate. Anyone who supports this is screwed, anyone who doesn't, has some breathing space. Dems know they're gonna get killed this fall. Only Dems like Pelosi in completely safe districts are going to be secure. I mean when Senators in California and New York are in trouble, you know there is gonna be hell to pay.
Think you're a bit mixed up here. Its pro- big government. Pro-entitlement, and definitely anti-american. Any way you want to spin the definition, any bill that assaults Americans the way this does, is anti American. Not because it goes against the spirit of America, although it does, not because it is a direct assault on the constitution, which it is. But because it penalizes every single American, thats about as anti as you can get.
So wrong. Every doctor, good or bad can and probably will be sued. You can be perfect, and still get sued. Whether because a patients decides they don't like the way you treated them, or because you said you thought it was something, and it turned out to be something else. It doesn't matter. A lot of people are looking for a buck, and doctors have malpractice insurance.
See above. Adding 30 pages of Republican Ideas to a 2000 page bill, is as I said above, lipstick on a pig.
0
Molenir
Are you enjoying the fact that its the American people who resoundingly are saying no, or are you like the President, simply ignoring them. No doubt what you'll most enjoy is the difference this 'reform bill' will make it peoples wallets. I don't think anyone will have any difficulty repealing this boondoggle once people realize how much its going to cost. Don't worry, any Republican that doesn't toe the line on repealing this, will have a hard primary fight. And any Dem that actually votes for it, will have an extremely hard time in the General. And since it doesn't actually go into effect until after Obama is kicked out in 2012, We'll have a Republican in the White House to help push this nonsense out.
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SushiSake3
Sorry Molenir, you're completely misreading the situation.
Re: the recent spikes (up to 30-odd %) in insurance premiums in Cali are starting to freak people out. When premiums jump like this, more insured people will cancel policies and the increased premiums will raise the bar for new customers, discouraging more of them from even signing up in the first place.
Obviously, this will just make the pool of uninsured bigger and bigger, and one-off and other charges will scare more and more people off from getting even preventative checkups and treatment.
What happens next? It'll just go from bad to worse. Those who don't get preventative checkups and treatment will likely - at some stage - find themselves needing to get must-have treatment - and will be landed with all the costs and stress that goes with it.
You'll find cases of urgent treatment on uninsured people will skyrocket and hospital and State healthcare budgets wil be blowing out all over the place.
Requiring everyone to be insured (as is the case in most other developed countries) - while initially relatively very costly - will go a heck of a long way to preventing the above situation from panning out.
It will also help keep health costs manageable.
I think you are ignring all the above in your attack on this legislation.
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SushiSake3
Another MASSIVE problem with not enacting this legislation is directly related to what I wrote above.
Rising insurance premiums will force more people to cancel their policies and fewer people to take them out.
This will cause the pool of people paying into the system to shrink, and with ever-rising pressure on healthcare costs, premiums will keep going up, forcing even more people out of and away from health insurance.
Then what?
It's simple math: Fewer people will be charged with funding an ever-increasing cost burden.
The status quo is just not sustainable whichever way you look at it.
I used to work in the health insurance industry - I know how this works, and if this bill - or a relatively effect version of it - isn't passed, Americans' health is in for big - and I mean **BIG **- trouble.
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SushiSake3
I know I'll be bashed for saying this, but what frustrates the hell out of me is the near-insane spending that went on under the previous U.S. administration.
They didn't have to spend $6 trillion and they didn't have to launch 2 costly wars.
Now, when healthcare reform and some kind of climate-related leglisation are needed, there's suddenly a much bigger void of money than there could have been had more sensible policies been enacted by the last government.
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Badsey
If the U.S. would give up their war-mongering (>50% of Budget) they could easily have national health care insurance for everyone -but they absolutely refuse to budge on this war.
The Health IRAs are a great idea nationally -you would be encouraging people to be healthy and they would save on their health care costs. =You could end up having $100k+ in an account and actually have groups bid to service your health care = the interest generated on the account pays for your health care plus grows for the next year (health premiums ends up free for you)
0
yabits
Molenir writes:
Perhaps they should try filibustering it.
One can't help but note how a recent JT article on the Republicans' record use of the filibuster has not drawn your attention or comment.
Indeed. But of course, the Republicans will try to sell you on the idea that tort reform will solve this situation -- when in fact the non-partisan CBO says that it won't at all.
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adaydream
Molenir how wrong you are. I see retirees everyday. And I haven't met a retiree yet who wants Obama's plan to fail. I keep hearing people tell me how upset they are with republicans. I haven't talked to anybody yet who wants his plan to fail, republican or democrat.
Again your comment is B/S. < :-)
0
SushiSake3
Conservatives and independents who are against this healthcare reform bill need to answer 1 simple question:
Considering that it's a given that healthcare costs are going to keep rising, how is the GOP strategy of doing nothing/maintaining the status quo going to contain costs?
Premiums rise largely on the back of costs, as the higher costs go, the more people will pay to keep their insurances.
It'll also force more people to cancel and fewer to take out insurance in the first place.
The pool of uninsured will continue to bloat and you'll see more and more people turning up at hospitals needing critical life-saving surgury/treatments - with pretty much no one but the states to pick up the bill.
The [Democratic] alternative is everyone gets coverage, and despite it being another monthly bill to pay, people become far more likely to toddle on along to the doctors for preventative treatment - that may well stop that mole from becoming a mountain, and the cost of treatment doing similar.
Under the GOP plan, people who cannot afford treatment and who have to compete for a place in an already crowded medical facility against an ever-growing crowd of other folk needing treatment might just die.
Then - ironically - we might be seeing Sarah Palin's death panels, that will be driven into existance by the GOP's insistence on doing nothing now.
0
zurcronium
republican ideas on healthcare
1) do not get sick 2) if you do get sick die quickly 3) suck up to the corrupt insurance industry 4) do everything we can to screw the middle class 5) make rich people richer by screwing the middle class
why anyone who is not a banker would support the republicans is insane or delusional or both.
0
adaydream
Molenir, what are the republicans going to say when it passes and then they want to roll back health care reforms? How are the republicans going to spin taking back health care reform? After Obama has embraced republican ideas and the bill passes, what will they say on the November campaign trail? < :-)
0
Molenir
And what would be the ideal situation? Perhaps California could pass a bill in their state. Ah, but then it wouldn't be a big government solution, and we can't have that. Ah, maybe congress could allow insurance to be sold across state lines. Oh, wait Republican idea, not sure thats possible.
I agree with this sentiment. The only thing that frustrates me more, is this administrations suicidal spending spree. Set aside R and D, I really don't care which party a person represents. Anyone who does the big government spend fest, is not someone worth celebrating. The only excuse either of them have, is they were fighting a war. However thats only a small fraction of the total spending. The rest is just waste.
Didn't see it. Believe it or not, I actually have a life outside of JT. :) I'll look for it, a link would be helpful though.
Thats more then a bit surprising. I don't know where you live, I currently live in Arizona. Just about everyone I've talked to about it, and others who have talked to me (I'm rather famous in my office for talking politics) is against it.
Think you have this backwards Zurc, you like so many others, obviously haven't read the bill. Its the Dems sucking up to the insurance industry. The dems who are telling people they should die, rather then get quality health care. Or did you not think the results of this would be an overall decline in the quality of health care. You're at best, naive if you think this. And since the results of this bill will screw the middle class, again, its the Dems giving a big screw you to the middle class.
lol, even this is backwards. Change it to, anyone who is not a banker or an insurance agent and of course Democrats in place of Republicans and this makes sense too.
Doing nothing? Perhaps you have missed the Republican proposals. Each of which is doing something. Republicans policy is to throw out the nonsense that Dems have crafted, which is going to cost every single American trillions of dollars they don't have, and instead go back and focus on what will work, what both parties can agree on and support. You do that, you'll get bipartisan support and it will sail through congress. Start adding in crap, like single payer, government takeover, and of course, forcing everyone to buy insurance, and it will get stuck.
I'm truly amazed Sushi, that anyone can think this. Again, you obviously haven't read the current bill, nor have you looked into what Republicans proposed. If you had bothered to do any research at all, you'd see this is truly nonsense.
Sorry for the length of this response. Was trying to respond to everyone. Yes, I deliberately ignored Badsey.
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Molenir
Sorry Aday, missed this in my previous, post that was already too long. The answer is, all they have to do, is point out that its unconstitutional, that no one wanted it, that it will cost more then god could afford, and then state, that they will repeal it, and put in place a plan that actually will work. Spun the right way, it is easily doable. Of course Dems will be out there screaming about how Republicans want everyone to die. Rather like the silliness Zurc keeps pushing.
Whats sad, is that I'm really unsure if they'll have the will to go to the mat with this. I mean, look at what just happened to Senator Bunning. The man tried to insist that congress actually pay for one of its proposals, and Dems vilified him. It was all just nonsense, rather like the law requiring congress to clearly identify how things will be paid for. A law passed by Dems, which they're clearly ignoring. The response however reminded me of the time when Dems claimed Republicans were in favor of starving children. And you thought Death Panels were bad?
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adaydream
Molenir, I didn't see a lot of republicans standing up for Bunning either. Did they lose their courage? Were that just letting Bunning get treated like Lott? a (Republicans were tired of Lott and allowed him to sink alone.) That's how theyre treating Bunning, also.
I'm from KS. Like that makes a difference.
If I worked with you, I'd tell you to sit down and get back to work. I don't have to hear politics in the work area. Outside work, okay...I choose to talk politics, in work...I'm working and you need to be working also. "My Personal opinion."
Death panels were never a part of the health care reform package, even though Palin dreamed that one up. But under the republican health care bill you'll need them.
The republican plan covers 3 million people. The democratic plan covers 30 million. That's 27 million not covered.
Democratic Plan covers 30 Million.
Republican Plan covers 3 Million. 1/10 of the Democratic Plan.
A difference of 27 Million. The republicans are willing to not cover 27 million and allow them to fend for themselves.
http://www.emaxhealth.com/72/21571.html
Even based on these low figures, the republicans are willing to let 16,200 to 19,800 people die from illnesses instead of covering the difference between their 3 million plan and the democrats 30 million plan.
Reconciliation won't pass the whole bill, but it'll make substantive changes to the way things are done now. < :-)
0
Molenir
There were a few, there were even a few Democrats that had the integrity to acknowledge that Bunning was correct. However you are right in general. Thats what disheartens me about Republicans in general. I've said many times, I'm not a Republican, I'm a conservative.
lol, I don't talk politics while working. However when I'm working, my co-workers rather frequently come over to chat. I can multi task. Talk and type at the same time. And of course when on break. My point however was, that in my office anyway, just about everyone I have talked to is opposed to the health care bill. With only a few die hard liberals as exceptions. We're working on converting them though. :)
Heh, if you were from someplace like NY, where nearly everyone is a lib, then your statement about everyone you talked to, being in favor of it, would make a bit more sense.
You're talking numbers here. And the Republican plan would cover about 10 million last I heard, so not 1/10th, but rather 1/3rd. What you are likewise conveniently leaving out is, the Republican plan would cost much, much less. Wouldn't create a huge new government bureaucracy, and would actually be effective in reducing insurance costs. You are also neglecting to consider, that, many of those currently uninsured do not have insurance because they don't want it. Under the Dems plan, they would now be forced to buy insurance. Unlike with a drivers license, where if you don't want one, you can opt not to drive, with this, you have no way to opt out.
This kind of numbers is nonsense. Its beneath you aday. Sounds more like something Zurc would say. No one wants people to die. Saying this is like saying, that since another 10 to 20 million would remain uninsured, the Dems would be allowing them to die. Its nonsense. No one wants this. If there was a plan there, that would help everyone obtain quality medical care, and do so in an economically sustainable way, most people would go along with it. However with the state of the US economy right now, its simply not doable. When congress can finally balance the budget, then, and only then should it even be considered.
0
ca1ic0cat
There are problems with the existing health care bill at so many levels that I find it amazing anybody can defend it. First, it leaves a lot of people without coverage. So what about the people who aren't covered? Especially during the "phase in." Second, the bill is a big giveaway to Liebermann's buddies in the health care insurance business. Like they need money. The perks keep rolling. Nothing is done to reform malpractice, so the lawyers get to keep their filthly lucre too. In the end the bill doesn't cover everybody, costs a lot, and hands money to the vested industry interests. That is not a good bill. Whatever changes you think will be made the industry groups are just going to be that much further entrenched. So what does this accomplish? Not much from what I can see.
0
yabits
@Molenir
http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/republicans-setting-filibuster-record
0
adaydream
Molenir, you'll have to show me a link on the 10 Million being taken care of in the republican package. I've never seen it.
The CBO has already discounted your numbers. The CBO has costed the Obama plan as being the most efficient.
Those numbers are below me. I don't think that over 16,000+ a year is something to sluff off. We see bills passed routinely that effect much fewer numbers and they are justified so so strongly. But you could care less for the 16,000+ that would die without health care protection.
I so hope this passes by reconciliation. < :-)
0
sfjp330
U.S. has extensive problems with malpractice lawsuits in health care industry which result in higher health care cost. This is one area in U.S. that continues to lead the world and should be addressed as a main point. The House and Senate bills each contain provisions aiming to improve patient safety and offering grants to states that develop alternate ways to resolve disputes over medical errors. Proponents of broader malpractice reforms dismiss these proposals as inadequate while trial lawyers have rejected another possible compromise, moving toward the middle on medical malpractice reform, the creation of special “health courts” that would hear cases and medical errors and malpractice.
0
ca1ic0cat
Passes by reconciliation? It is doubtful that there will be any reconciliation. To quote Obama's quotes from the WSJ:
Breitbart.tv has a terrific two-minute video featuring clips of Barack Obama commenting on the need to build consensus before attempting to enact major social legislation. Obama's comments:
• "My understanding of the Senate is, is that you need 60 votes to get something significant to happen, which means that Democrats and Republicans have to ask the question: Do we have the will to move an American agenda forward, not a Democratic or Republican agenda forward?"--CBS-TV election night interview, Nov. 2, 2004
• "The bottom line is that our health-care plans are similar. The question, once again, is: Who can get it done? Who can build a movement for change? This is an area where we're going to have to have a 60% majority in the Senate and the House in order to actually get a bill to my desk. We're going to have to have a majority, to get the bill to my desk, that is not just a 50-plus-1 majority."--Change to Win convention, Sept. 25, 2007
• "You've got to break out of what I call the sort of 50-plus-1 pattern of presidential politics. Maybe you eke out a victory of 50 plus 1, but you can't govern. You know, you get Air Force One--I mean, there are a lot of nice perks, but you can't deliver on health care. We're not going to pass universal health care with a 50-plus-1 strategy."--interview with the Concord (N.H.) Monitor, Oct. 9, 2007
• "You know, one of the arguments that sometimes I get with my fellow progressives--and some of these have flashed up in the blog communities on occasion--is this notion that we should function sort of like Karl Rove, where we identify our core base, we throw them red meat, we get a 50-plus-1 victory. But see, Karl Rove doesn't need a broad consensus, because he doesn't believe in government. If we want to transform the country, though, that requires a sizable majority."--Center for American Progress, July 12, 2006
So now Obama is behaving like Rove? It is truly amazing how the worm turns. Reconciliation - the word is just dripping with irony.
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Molenir
The CBO can only grade whats put in front of it. Let me simply state, that what was given to the CBO, is not what the plan is. In fact its about half of the plan. Seriously, do a bit of research, check on how they're double counting. Rep. Paul Ryan had this to say...
"this thing has a $460 billion deficit in the first 10 years, a $1.4 trillion deficit in the second 10 years".
"Let me give you an example. It double counts Medicare cost savings. It double counts increased taxes for Social Security, increased premiums for this new CLASS Act. ... If you're going to say that all these Medicare cuts are improving the solvency of Medicare, which is what they say, then you can't use that money to spend on the creation of another government program."
Yeah, except they've decided to stop using the word. Now its an up or down vote. It would be funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.
I especially love that quote from Obama about not using Reconciliation. Reminds me of Bush 1. Read my Lips... No Reconciliation. Maybe thats why they're changing it to an up or down vote.
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