Obama pitches pay-as-you-go plan for US Congress
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43 Comments
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0
Badsey
Wow, you get 10yrs to pay off a debt. -Where do I sign up?
Say one thing and do another it seems. -Keep up the good work!
0
Badsey
Convoluted Logic: (ala Wimpy Wellington) "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. -Obviously this idea works quite well in Washington it seems.
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maksonoil
The real problem is that the bankers that controls the Obama cabinet which is increasingly isolated and disliked. The entire world is watching is shaking their heads in dibelief as they try to get American taxpayers and other countries to bail out criminal government who engineered the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. China will no longer lend to the US unless it has collateral. They have seen through the Federal Reserve Board fiat money scam. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve Board, meanwhile is trying to fool the rest of the world into accepting some of the $15 trillion in funny money it has printed since last September.
0
VOR
The federal deficit is on pace to explode past $1.8 trillion this year, more than four times last year’s all-time high.
Obama, Pelosi and Reid four times more irresponsible than Bush, Pelosi and Reid.
0
Wolfpack
It's only 'after' he has run up the largest debt in the history of the United States that he wants pay-as-you-go rules. Geez - could have used that five months ago! President Obama is calling for fiscal discipline? He has barely gotten into office and he is already the most fiscal undisciplined president of all time. Don't worry Liberals, he isn't serious about paygo - he can always have Bernanke just print some more up for him.
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Badsey
Obama has this sort-of-wrong: Pay-as-you-go is sort of like a debit card. =You pay first then the bill is debited until the account is empty. Some cells are like this, iTunes etc. =Very popular.
What we are looking at is the inverse of that. A sort of go-as-you-go with a promise to maybe eventually pay until the rules change again. A sort of put in on my tab, but my credit rating is 0 system.
I think most people believe in the debit system rather than the credit system right now.
0
GJDailleult
Americans have been putting a torch to the "world's greatest economy" with their free market fundamentalism, crackpot economic theories (Laffer curve anybody?), and destructive tribal politics for a long time now, going all the way back to Milton Friedman. "Ship our industrial base off to China - great idea!!!" "Build a bubble economy where people can flip real estate, buy cheap made-in-China stuff, and work in the "innovative" financial sector - great idea!!!" "Bankrupt the country on a search for imaginary weapons of mass destruction - great idea!!!" And on and on. And why were they all great ideas? Because they were American ideas of course.
Now that the house has finally caught fire, some of them blame the fireman - "We didn't have a fire until you showed up!" Some of them say the fireman doesn't know what he is doing - "Our favorite firemen would do things differently!" Well myself, I am not sure that the fireman knows what he is doing either, but it's not my house so I don't much care. I didn't make the bed, I don't have to lie it, and I don't have to hope the house doesn't burn down around me. Good luck USA, you're gonna need it.
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zurcronium
All the whiners and wingers forget, cause its too painful for them to remember, that it was the $900 billion bailout of the banking industry that bush and paulsen pushed through to save the finance industry that got the deficits really rolling. Why did he do that, because the republicans allowed the bankers to run amok with supervision and basically bankrupt the economy. And to think Clinton left office with huge surpluses just 8 years ago.
So Obama has to clean up this mess. And to do it it takes funding from the government. Otherwise the entire economy shuts down and all the winger whiners lose their jobs. But being out of touch with reality anyway, they feel they have a right to complain as Obama fixes capitalism for them so they can keep their jobs and homes.
Wow, how unamerican can you possibly be now to complain about Obama as he fixes the economy destroyed by bush. After 9-11 the demos knew to shut up, now as the US faces a bigger threat the republicans whine and complain and show the world how useless they really are to try to solve real problems. They embrace failure, they are are the failure party and their leaders only know how to fail.
0
VOR
...and the democrats were innocent observers. haha what a bunch of baloney.
here's another fact that the whiners and wingers on the left want to continue to deny:
The federal deficit is on pace to explode past $1.8 trillion this year, more than four times last year’s all-time high.
If deficit spending by Bush, Pelosi and Reid was the root of all evil last year its completely ridiculous to turn a blind eye to it when its your boy in the white house. tsk tsk tsk.
0
Helter_Skelter
How does nationalizing private companies fix capitalism exactly? Perhaps you could elaborate on the specifics.
0
Badsey
no way should we have bailed out the crooks and their bad bets -if it was FDIC insured then yes, otherwise no.
=This was the biggest fleecing of America I have ever seen. AIG will be a total loss and many of these institutions are gone and have no assets. -and we are still not enforcing the SEC laws (Madoff etc).
American people are getting tired of this crap and many of these politicians will be out of a job next election. Every taxpayer wrote a check out for over $10,000 (some say $40,000) for these cons -and that is only for 2008 =What about 2009? And many lost a very large part of their savings, investments, and/or pensions. We can't afford these people anymore.
0
teleprompter
That MSNBC guy was right - it's Amateur Hour as we face some of our darkest moments.
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GJDailleult
An alternative question to the one above is "how exactly does not nationalizing private BANKRUPT companies fix capitalism?" I'm not sure nationalizing will work, but if you don't believe in it then you are putting all your faith in creative destruction. Better be sure you still have the money and ability to do the creative part, or else you just get the destruction part. That would be a whole lot of fun for sure.
But don't worry guys. As long as Uncle China keeps handing over your allowance money you should be able to get by. Somehow I don't think this is what Dick Nixon had in mind when he went there though.
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SushiSake3
maksonoil - "the biggest Ponzi scheme in history."
It's a Ponzi scam. This one comes up fairly often.
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SushiSake3
VOR - "Obama, Pelosi and Reid four times more irresponsible than Bush, Pelosi and Reid."
The deficit would never had exploded had bush and co. actually done their jobs and governed America for Americans instead of for Iraqis, big oil and the U.S. Rich List.
0
SushiSake3
Wolfpack - "He has barely gotten into office and he is already the most fiscal undisciplined president of all time."
Wolfpack, you are yet another conservative who - amazingly - seems to believe the recession that began on George Bush's watch is all President Obama's fault.
It didn't. What we are seeing is the Obama Administration reacting to the fiscal meltdown that was bred, in the most part, under the GOP led by George Bush.
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SushiSake3
Zurcronium - "So Obama has to clean up this mess. And to do it it takes funding from the government. Otherwise the entire economy shuts down and all the winger whiners lose their jobs."
Exactly, exactly.
While the GOP/conservatives are excelling at complaining and spouting divisive hopelessly out-of-touch rhetoric, what they are failing to do is present any constructive ideas that might actually work and benefit the U.S. economy.
They all lament the massive spending under President Obama and yet are not surpisingly completely and utterly devoid of any alternative ideas, plans or strategies.
Zurc, as you correctly stated, "to clean up this mess...takes funding from the government."
It would be truly encouraging to see an alternative to this put forward by conservatives, but day after day, all we hear is the same old bellicose criticism - nothing new, nothing helpful, nothing constructive.
I always get a laugh when I hear Republicans strssing the need for fiscal discipline, considering that the GOP under George W. Bush was the most fiscally reckless in American history.
But the GOP have - conveniently - already completely forgotten that because they know it will nuke their arguments every single time and prevent them from whining endlessly about their country's collapsing fiscal environment that they themselves, through their votes for George Bush, were responsible for creating.
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SushiSake3
Helter Skelter - "How does nationalizing private companies fix capitalism exactly? Perhaps you could elaborate on the specifics."
Before he does that, perhaps you could elaborate on what the alternative was?
By the way: Socialism. Be Scared. :-)
0
SushiSake3
Here's a simple 2-pronged challenge for the conservatives on this board:
**1/ **If you are against the Obama Administration's spending policies, please provide at least 1 constructive alternative.
**2/ **If you are upset about the (partial) nationalization of General Motors and a number of banks, please provide at least 1 constructive alternative strategy.
Looking forward to reading some positive, real-world constructive advice!
0
SushiSake3
"Republicans lashed back that Obama is no voice of fiscal restraint."
How incredibly hypocritical can they get???
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SushiSake3
Do conservatives on this thread have no constructive ideas to contribute at all??
0
RomeoRamenII
Obama buries the country in debt in his first 5 months in office, then turns to the Congress and warns them against irresponsible spending.
Also, he defines tax cuts as government spending. This assumes all money belongs to the government regardless of who earned it and it's a government "expense" if you keep more of the governments money through a tax cut. Is there a difference between this assumption and that of a Communist?
When is the MSM going to start calling this guy out and stop functioning as his PR firm?
0
SushiSake3
Romeo, it's clear that - like almost all conservatives - you have a lot of anger and criticism, but really, they aren't helping.
What will help is construvtive ideas.
Care to offer some?
0
jhk
I have an alternative solution, cut the white collar salary in half, and use it to employ the homeless, unemployed, haken workers, freeters, and developing countries. Reconsider barriers to employment such as certifications, which tend to drive up educational costs, drive up salaries, and limits diversity in the workforce. Reconsider commission rates like 20-30% for recruiting fees, 3% for Real Estate, etc. Reconsider the entire realm of hedge funds and institutional investments. The markets are drying up and we are bleeding employees. Perhaps we would have less social costs if we just reduced our salaries instead.
I would guess that, given the nature of most individuals, institutions & politics, this won't happen, so instead, we will continue with this income gap problem, increased social costs, reduced consumption, increased crime, more borrowing from taxpayers, until what we collectively reap what we are sowing.
Obama is one guy. The guys that can do the most for this world sit in cubicles or offices and have access to the most important corporate decisions.
Einstein says "Insanity (is) doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." So if you are still sitting in your cubicle or driving in your car or cab next month wondering whats wrong with the world, try to think outside the box per se and remind yourself that the homeless guy sleeping in the park could be you or your family tomorrow.
This is the best that I can think of, but I still think governments, corporations, institutions, and organizations, are under such pressure, and so used to high margins, inefficiency, and corporate procedure, that we will witness them all imploding and this is what will threaten our very infrastructure, after which, as I have mentioned previously...
Money and Gold will be useless if 20% of the population is unemployed and trying to make a living, so think carefully before pushing the fire button. Its insane.
0
RomeoRamenII
Obama's spending makes Mr. Bush look like a fiscal conservative.
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maksonoil
It really does not matter whether it is Bush or Obama who is in charge as the country is bankrupt. For US to be able to survive they are completely dependent on loans and aid from communist China. However, China together with other countries of the world do no longer acccept fiat money from the Federal Reserves as an international currency. China will give out loans only on conditions that US backs up it's debt with real things and not money printed from paper thin air but things such as American factories, gold, etc. In one way or another US will become a Chinese colony. There is no escape in this whteher it is Bush or Obama who is President. What this means for the average American is that debt slavery would be slightly more “regulated,” with Chinese management.
0
Badsey
"Change -You can believe in"
It is hard to believe when you are continually lied to. Much like Obama's birth certificate, education records etc.
I believe most people can sense we are in trouble and 2009 will be a hard year. This is not Obama's fault since the last 20yrs? we have acquired these people and their disasterous policies. We really need a change, but many of these corrupt politicians will fight to the end to keep the defacto in power. -and the über-rich are getting even more powerful (we gave them a Trillion! -some are saying 10 Trillion) =There is no reason to be supporting these people with that sort of money. Stop printing and giving the money away --> and to the worst people =stop supporting the financial terrorists.
0
goodDonkey
maksonoil said:
This statement could not be further from the truth. America is no where near bankrupt. Our assets far exceed our debt. Although we have a quarter of the citizens we can ramp up production to far exceed any capacity China would reach in years.
U.S. GDP - $14.265 trillion
China GDP - $4.402
China has cash reserves of roughly $1.9 trillion. They own less than 1 trillion in Treasury Bonds as of the end of last year.
Canada well down on the list has a third of the GDP that China has with only 33,677,000 citizens compared to China's 1,331,115,200 citizens. That is about 1/40 as many citizens.
Some people will believe anything. The USD is still the international standard but the Euro, rightfully so, is major competition. "[M]oney printed from paper thin air," oh that is hilarious. Try over $14 trillion last year during a bad recession and you can expect a repeat of that for years to come with some substantial annual increases.
Just because you want the U.S. to be spiraling down into its destruction does not make it so. I will take poetic license with a fake quote, "The reports of our nation's demise is greatly exaggerated."
By the way I was saying during the election that Obama would have to spend vasts amounts of money to help the economy recover. I also said once the economy recovered he would make great strides in balancing the budget. I am a Democrat and that is how we roll.
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maksonoil
To goodDonkey.
No, I do not want US to go down. They arelady are bankrupt. I want Americans to remain happy. I feel sorry for them how they have been tricked and manipulated by the government, greedy interest organizations, wild speculations on the stock market and bankers.
Obama, is only a man hired to act as “President” by a cabal of gerontocrats. Look at him more of a spokes person than anythign else. It was the same with Bush. With Bush it was more obvious as it was clear that he did not have the capacity and knowledge to be a real President rather he was a puppet for PNAC and the weapon/oil industry. Though Obama is a good speaker and there are many qualities with him which I admire he is no less a puppet than Bush.
As I have mentioned earlier. Every single Dollar has a code number on them and, depending on the code, some are accepted as international currency and some are not. The Feds have since September 11th of 2008 printed 13 trillion dollars but this is regarded as Fiat Dollars and is not accepted as international currency.
0
goodDonkey
maksonoil said:
Sources!; we don't need no stinkin' sources!
I love it when people claim to have special knowledge. It makes them feel superior. I don't find that in the people I have met in my graduate studies. In the upper echelons of intellectual pursuit you will find "special" access to suppressed information to be all bullshit. It is founded by and accepted by people who can't make it in the highly competitive education market. Knowledge is out there if you take the time to study and research. It generally takes years to master any given intellectual field. Very intelligent people learn to respect those who have worked very hard to obtain knowledge and are grateful they can learn from them. maksonoil feel free to post any other conspiracy theories you enjoy. I bet you like the prevailing conspiracy theory on the terrorist attack on 09.11.2009.
If you sit down in a discussion with those who have "hidden truth" answers they will reject all standard intellectually based knowledge. Facts that are well established make them uncomfortable. They can't afford to waste their time with such trivial pursuits. They know the shortcuts to knowledge.
"[S]ince September 11th of 2008 printed 13 trillion dollars," oh that one just hit me. That is mad hilarious. And then they snuck the equivalence of the entire GNP one year into the market unnoticed. That is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on JT. You could not possible know a single thing about economics to make a statement like that.
$13,000,000,000,000.00 since last September
ROTFLMAO!
0
VOR
Sushi - The deficit would never had exploded had bush and co. actually done their jobs and governed America for Americans instead of for Iraqis, big oil and the U.S. Rich List.
you may want to check how entitlement spending factors into the equation. can't pin that entirely on Bush and co. Its becoming clearer to the American people that Obama's running up the debt (did I mention 4 times the size of last years record deficit) was purely political. It is and will not stimulate the economy is any real sustainable way and if he doesn't at least get a bump by the fall of 2010, its curtains for this Democratic sideshow.
0
SuperLib
That was one hell of a post, goodDonkey.
0
SuperLib
And for China to be able to survive they are completely dependent on giving loans to the US. It's a symbiotic relationship. They are completely dependent on the American consumer for their survival in ways that you and I can't even imagine.
China needs to be north of 8% growth to continue along without civil unrest. That's the Chinese government's fear. It's not about the money, it's about saving their government. They are completely dependent on the American consumer for their survival. All this talk about selling off their debt or stopping the flow of funds is complete bullshit. The guy who decides that should make his next act jumping out the window because he's not going to be around much longer anyway.
They can't sell the debt they hold because no one else would buy it. No one else has that kind of money. If they tried to sell it they'd have to discount it which means taking a loss of hundreds of billions of dollars. And whatever debt they do have left would be worth even less since they'd devalue the dollar by selling their debt. They're stuck with it, period.
They also have cash surpluses that cannot be handled by any other entity besides the US government. They can threaten to stop buying the debt, but where else are they going to put their money? They have no alternative, period.
Any way you slice it China must keep paying for their own survival. It's in their best interests to keep the American consumer happy and healthy because it puts them in a position where they get surplus cash. Any decisions they make that hurt the US come back on them with much more serious consequences. That's how they set it up to get the cash surpluses in the beginning and they can thank themselves for being in that position just like everyone else around the world who tied their economic survival to Joe the Plumber.
0
adaydream
I like the proposal. < :-)
0
maksonoil
As for sources. Here is one. goodDonkey. There is lots of sources out there. Both coorporate media and alternative media. I get my views from working with economics and reading various magazines and web pages.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5379285/China-warns-Federal-Reserve-over-printing-money.html
Since United States is bankrupt. What Obama needs to do is to listen to what its creditor nations have to say. American business will have no choice but to turn over ownership in exchange for debt write-offs. This is normal. So what Federal reserves have been doing is over printing Dollars but this has not been accepted as an international currency. The reason why the Dollar is not in free fall is because countries differentiate between dollars and fiat dollars. Anyhow. If you borrow from the bank to buy a house but can't pay back the bank money the bank takes your house. Same with countries and business. The American people as a whole will have to change their attitude from, “what can the world do for us?” to “what can we do for the world?” As long as the Americans agree to start behaving towards the rest of the world in a civilized manner, the world will no doubt agree to write some of their debt. Americans will also further get generous aid and new financing so they can rebuild their schools, their roads, their health system.
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goodDonkey
maksonoil, I read the article you posted the link to and found nothing new in the article; certainly not the outrageous claims you have made. But you know the secrets don't you?
No mention of $13,000,000,000,000.00.
No mention of fiat money.
No mention of bankrupt America.
No mention of coding of bills.
No mention of China only accepting gold or "factories" as collateral.
If you think we did not know China has warned us about printing too much money you are sadly mistaken.
You made wild claims any sensible person would have scoffed at. Now you are backpedaling so fast that you have a real shot at the Tour de France as long as you are facing the wrong way. I have five sentences above (incomplete) that begin with the word No. Please provide sources for all five of these claims you have made.
0
SuperLib
Actually I think US consumer overspending is what created the Chinese surplus in the first place. I'm not exactly sure what we owe the Chinese for that, but my guess is that it's somewhere in the neighborhood of "nothing." The US also tolerated their games like their artificially low currency value, something else I can't say I'm interested in apologizing to them for.
There ya go, get angry and let all of the craziness out....
0
WilliB
zucro:
LOL! And the Democrats, in your memory, resisted this 900 billion bailout?? That would be the same Democrats who since then have quadrupled it, and are now proposing to double that yet again? Bizarre!
Conservatives where not happy with the Bush deficits, but to suggest that throwing gasoline on a fire is a way to extinguish it is so outlandish, it is hard to even comment.
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