Obama prods Netanyahu, Iran in Mideast foray
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adaydream
As long as Israel has nuclear weapons, Iran is going to want them. Even though the past few years Iran hasn't been pursueing nukes, I'm sure they feel as long as Israel has nuclear weapons, they aren't safe unless they get equalizers; nuclear weapons.
Then there's Israel saying they have all the right in the world to continueing their building campaign. This is encroachment onto more lands that don't belong to Israel. Most posters out here would be crying the blues if Palestine was building on Israeli lands.
We're going to see Israel tuck their tails and run back to Israel and refuse to negotiate on Obama's terms. < :-)
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WilliB
adaydream:
And if Israel distroys its nuclear arsenal, Iran is going to give them up? Daydream indeed.
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adaydream
Israel attacking Iran would be the absolute worst thing Israel could ever do. Nightmare. < :-)
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skipthesong
Israel attacking Iran would be the absolute worst thing Israel could ever do. Nightmare." Very true. Iran will get backing from Syria, the most feared nation to anybody who served in the Israeli forces has told me. The two of them combined would indeed wipe Israel off the map.
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bushlover
Good Luck Obama. You'll need it. Don't expect to win the lottery. No one has yet.
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SuperLib
As long as nukes exist, Iran is going to want them. The fact that Israel has nukes is irrelevant.
Last I checked Iranians have a direct hand in killing Israelis through Hamas and Hezbollah. The Israelis aren't killing Iranians. Your thoughts about that?
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adaydream
I love your logic SuperLib.
By using your logic, the US has been killing Palestinians through their passification and financing of Israel. < :-)
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SuperLib
As long as you're on board with Israelis killing Iranians to play out your "fair is fair" position then I'm more than happy with you thinking the US kills Palestinians. Besides, I don't pay taxes in the US. You do. If you want to keep playing the link game then I supposed I should ask why you keep paying to murder Palestinians? =8-D
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Helter_Skelter
What utter nonsense. Iran is going to want nuclear weapons no matter who has or doesn't have them. They want to be the dominant power in the Middle East and they've got the oil money to do it. Anyway, their quest for nukes goes back to the war with Iraq.
Hehe. Thanks for the chuckle adaydream.
Their attack on the Osarak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981was one of the best things they ever did, for themselves and the ME. Not sure why Iran would be any different. In fact, Israel not taking out Iran's nuclear facilities is the absolute worst thing Israel could ever do.
What you're really saying is it would be the absolutely worst thing for you since you so badly want Iran to gets nukes to level Tel Aviv.
Are you being serious? As long as Syria and Iran don't have any WMD's, they're no competition for the Israeli military. Get real.
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Alphaape
If Iran gets a nuke, and teams up with Syria and uses the bomb on Israel, then there goes Israel, but also, there goes the Palestinian state, there goes Jeruselem and all of the holy religious sites in Islam.
So if I were the Palestinians, I would seriously reconsider siding with Iran. After all, if they wipe Israel off the map, they will go too, unless they make a mass immigration to Iran before the bombs go off. Settle with Israel, get a homeland out of it, and build it up and make something of it. I am sure with the current world opinion, a Palestinian state would get as much backing as Israel did back in 1947,
Nukes even launched on Tel Aviv would still be no good. If the Palestinians think that they are getting the short end of the stick now in regards to lands given to them, what do you think they will get with radiated lands from nuke fall out? I guess creating a new "Persian Empire" at the expense of the Palestinians is what Iran wants.
Pal
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LIBERTAS
So much one-sided Amerika-centric logic here. Israel is already killing people wholesale with illegal weapons. FACT. Israel has been doing this for years. FACT. America supplies much of that weaponry. FACT. Regarding this Netanyahu-Obama meeting in DC, let´s be very clear about the dynamics here. Obama is taking marching orders from Bibi. FACT. It´s not the other way around. Here´s my prediction of the outcome: The Palestinian Authority (the Fatah 45%) will be told they have to reign in the majority Hamas 55%, and then told that the recognition of Israel´s right to exist will be a prerequisite for any agreement. No mention will be made of the Palestinian´s right to exist. Then Iran will be demonized as a nuclear threat, despite the IAEA´s insistence that no weapons program or super-enriched weapons grade material is being produced. Hands will be shaken, photos taken, and Bibi will go back with a blank check to continue doing what he does best. And what that is, is well documented. FACT.
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skipthesong
If the Palestinians refuse to recognize Israel, then how could Israel give the place independence? Its as if it doesn't exist
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skipthesong
Israel is already killing people wholesale with illegal weapons." you want it the other way around, don't you?
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SuperLib
I can't imagine Iran would ever use a nuke. In the end it would be counterproductive.
Most likely they'll use the nuke as a shield while they increase hostile activities in Israel, Iraq, and Lebanon. They'll probably start to more forcefully exert their influence in places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Right now Iran is limited by what they can do because they're vulnerable, but having nukes will change that. Once they're assured that they can use the nuclear threat to deter invasion they'll probably let loose. People always talk about Israel but just about every country in the Middle East is concerned with Iran getting nukes.
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LIBERTAS
"Israel is already killing people wholesale with illegal weapons." "you want it the other way around, don't you?" Your words, not mine. As proof that Bibi wears the pants in this marriage, check out this hubris: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086579.html "Israel gives Obama until end of year on Iran." What more proof do you need? Check the transcripts of this meeting: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086387.html The burden of proof that Iran is making nuclear weapons lies with the accuser, Israel. Show me evidence, not WMD hype, OK? Fool me once....
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skipthesong
OK? Fool me once.." YOu'd play that with nukes?
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teleprompter
Our boy Obama bows to the Saudi king. Why would Netanyahu think Obama has Israel's best interests in mind?
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adaydream
Netanyahu needs to listen very much. The US has agreed to give Isreal $30Billion over 10 years.
Netanyahu doesn't want to listyen, then I think that this $30Billion could be in jeopardy. There in interest in doing away with the $30Billion give-away.
I'd like to see this money pulled back from Israel. We shouldn't be giving Israel money to commit murder with. < :-)
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SuperLib
Typical American bully.
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adaydream
It's being a bully to pull money if Israel doesn't want to play nice? But it's politically correct to give Israel money to kill Palestinians?
The Israelis were supposed to stop all growth of building after the Indianapolis meeting, remember? But they didn't. But SuperLib wants to continue to fund them, even after they have thumbed their nose to the US.
SuperLib sees no reason that we should ever quit giving Israel money. He likes the fact that Israel murdered many Palestinians. He hopes the US continues to pay for such murders. That's fine.
Typical American bully? You supported the "American Bully" george bush. You supported attacking a country that made no overtures at attacking the US by your American Bully "gb". You supported the American Bully "gb" when his actions killed 100,000s of innocent Iraqis.
I'm the typical American Bully. Bring it on. < :-)
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YGHome
Obama is going to attack Iran. He will surely continue the celebrated American tradition of attacking various countries around the world.
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SuperLib
What I want is irrelevant. What's important is that your money pays for it. Mine doesn't.
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grafton
Netanyahu has a job to do & that is protect the people of Israel, if Obama helps in some way toward that he will listen, if not Netanyahu will go his own way. As would the leader of any country.
You all want this Israeli Palestinian conflict to end? Fine, cut off the money & weapons that go to Hamas & Hezbollah, they are the extremist that are keeping the fighting going. Israel’s reactions are excessive, they always have been, it has been the only way for them to survive in a very hostile environment, (the Middle East) for the last 60 years.
Saeb Erekat asks “The question to Mr. Netanyahu is, ‘How can I govern myself while your occupation continues everywhere in the West Bank and Gaza, and how can I govern myself under your wall, roadblocks and settlement activities?’”
Simple, remove the reasons for all this. The reason for the occupation & the blockade, the road blocks & the wall are to try & reduce the killing of Israelis by extremists. And it is insane to expect the Israelis to try & bring their own extremist under control (the settlement builders) while the Palestinian leaders do nothing to control their extremists. Just what argument can be used to bring the Zionists under control while rockets still get fired, while Hamas, Hezbollah & Iran all refuse to accept Israel’s right to exist?
Israel has always had the power to eradicate the Palestinians but has never done so, they have only ever tried to keep things under control. If Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran were to be given the same power over Israel could you see the same restraint? Hamas & Hezbollah have chosen their “friend” in Iran, because Iran supplies them with weapons & money & they have taken on the Iranian ideology & is that really something anybody wants to see growing in the ME? Maybe if the bleeding hearts were to think about the future rather than corrupting the past to support their accusations against Israel they might see where a successful Hamas would take the ME. Have any of you really given that any thought? What do you imagine is going to happen to the Jews in Israel, the Jews know, they have been there before when the world had a bad case of temporary blindness. Israel is a small country that has existed for 60 years in a sea of hate, it’s “friends” in the West have stabbed it in the back a number of times, why should it trust anybody (the US)? It trusted the British & French in 1956 & very nearly ended up being destroyed.
Israel’s long term security at this time is in its nuclear weapons & if I were asked I would tell them to start building as many more as they possibly can. Because the US has a reputation for abandoning its “friends” & the world has suffered temporary blindness too often to be trusted & not just in relation to Jews. When it suits the West to arrive too late they always do.
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adaydream
Then SuperLib, we have nothing to discuss. < :-)
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SuperLib
Well said, grafton.
Right. It really does come down to Israel's right to exist. The militants use terrorism to attack, then claim that the methods Israel uses to stop terrorism cause terrorism. It's a circular argument that only works if one doesn't believe Israel has the right to exist. Personally I think that without terrorism there would be no walls, no checkpoints, no closed borders, so ultimately I blame the militants. But if one doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist then they take the blame and put it back on Israel again. Since we know Israel can't go anywhere then people who support that point of view support an endless Palestinian struggle and ultimately support the conditions that the Palestinians live under.
People often say that if you really want to see the difference between Israel and the surrounding Arabs, just imagine if the two sides switched weapons. I think everyone understands that statement but again those who don't support Israel's right to exist will ignore it. We have a situation where one group is trying to eliminate their enemies and the other is trying to find a way to live alongside them. Israel's existence hasn't created the conditions that the Palestinians live under, it's the Palestinian's never ending position of war that's the real cause. Now they're broke, uneducated, and mostly ignored by their Arab neighbors who learned a long time ago that war with Israel wasn't the answer. On top of that they have a radicalized population who fight each other as often as they fight Israel. If Israel vanished tomorrow the fighting for control over the area would turn into a bloodbath that would make Israel's last offensive look like a picnic. War is the only solution offered by the militants whether the enemy is Israel or other Palestinians.
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bushlover
Well said grafton and SuperLib. But I'm willing to bet the bleeding heart liberals will be back with stories of how the poor Palestinians are suffering. I've been over there and I tell you it is just these extremists that exploit the uneducated. Arab incompetence in most things they do perpetuates this vicious circle of fight to the death and topped with extremism that can have religion ingrain this into the psyche then it will be a never ending struggle of snowballs at the bonfire. It's time to negotiate but one side sure doesn't want that to happen due to their "culture".
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